The Fall of the Don Juan

Oxide

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Last year, when I first typed in “Dating tips” in the google search, I could have never imagined my life would be what it is now. Looking back, seeing all the success, and the mistakes I had to learn from, I am happy that all the hard work is paying off. I don’t know about you guys, but sometimes, after a great conversation, or a date with a girl, I get this awesome ticklish feeling in my chest, which puts me in the greatest mood. I say, “Damn, you are good”, and then laugh at myself some more. Actually, this doesn’t just apply to girls. Every time I do something that takes a lot of balls, or something I never thought I’d be doing… that feeling comes back.

It has been a long time since I stopped calling myself a Don Juan. It has been awhile since I’ve abandoned loads of lines and tips, wacky scripts, and stupid battle plans. Now, I am just Me. This is all I want to be.

As I mentioned, it has been over a year since I started this path to find my true self. The path lead me to all sorts of places, and all sorts of decisions and mind blowing discoveries. Many, many times I slapped myself on the head. Many, many times I smiled thinking about the girl I was making out with last night.

The title of this story might be a little depressing, but do not fear, for everything I am showing you can be changed.

Let’s start, at last.

About 4 months or so into my journey, I’ve gotten this idea drilled into my head, “Girls do not like nice guys. Girls want *******s...they might not act like they do, but they all wish for an ******* to dominate them” As you think you shall become, as my friend Pook likes to say, was never this truer. I started to change into a total *******. I never gave girls a break. If they asked me for anything, I would refuse and make them do it on their own. If they called me an *******, I would laugh and continue to treat them like ****. No matter the request, I would always say “No”… to the point where it got absurd. (Say a girl wants to walk by, but you are in the way… I wouldn’t move, she would have to squeeze really hard to get by me)
It got so bad my best friends would point out to me that I am being an idiot. At this point, I didn’t have a clear idea if the ******* theory worked or not… I was hoping it was working better than the nice guy image, but at the same time, I didn’t get any girls running to me with requests to rule their worlds.
The end of the ******* phase happened at a party, infested with hairy loud creatures called popular high school girls. Me and my friend Alex were there together, playing the game. I kept my ******* shield high. Alex on the other hand was just himself with the girls, offering massage, and letting girls dance with him. That night I went home confused, and he went home with a couple of numbers. (Which later lead to dates and so on)

The lesson I learned was that women, even though do not wish for total lack of manhood, do not wish for a man who would treat them like ****. Not every woman is thrilled by your lack of desire to help them out. Most women actually prefer a guy who is willing to lend a hand when they need help. In general, if you don’t wish to get used, ask girls for favors as well. Make her drive to your house next time. Make her cook you dinner. You do not have to demand it, but if you ask it in a right way, she will be very eager to do it.
(for example… “If you drive over to my house, and grab some whip cream on the way, I will make sure you never forget this night)

Let’s move on…
We are about 7 months into the journey now… I meet girls and I get numbers… I try to be a challenge, try to be indifferent, try to be alpha... but something doesn’t quite click… girls do not rush to me begging me for a shag.
I met a cute virgin once. She was smart, very athletic (Beautiful Hockey player), and was into me from the first day. Even after I got her in my bed, and we went to the third base, for some wicked reason I still believed I needed to be more of a challenge to get her interest level higher! She would ask me to exchange numbers, and I’d say “My number is 911-225-2332”. She would ask me what I'm doing later, and I’d say “I can’t tell you, it’s a secret”…. She would lean against me for a kiss, and I’d pull away thinking I should tease her some more… Ah…memories… filled with emotions. This girl came over my place, and after I started to undress her while making out, made a simple request, “let’s stay on top tonight”. I thought she was playing hard to get, so I tried taking her pants off in 15 minutes… she asked again, “Let’s stay on top tonight”, and I thought she was testing me… I told her to get dressed in leave. She was very confused, and asked me why was I in such a hurry to get rid of her. I called her a week later, but she would not return my calls any longer.

It was this girl who taught me this valuable lesson. After a day with me, she stated, “You are so difficult. It is like I have to climb over a wall in order to get anything out of you”.
The lesson I learned was, “The best way to get the girl is to be sincere. If you like her, kiss her. If you start losing interest in her, take a break. If the girl acts like she enjoys time she spends with you, don’t make it more complicated by throwing crazy techniques into the mix”. Somebody once said, “In order for a relationship to work, one party can not be using strategy”. I say, “In order for a relationship to be great, neither party should be relying on strategies.”

One of the biggest mistakes I’ve notice myself making was the creating of my Ego tower. I thought I knew the secrets to women. I knew the strategies and the moves they used, and how to beat them. I saw guys act like chumps in front of women, and think, “Gosh, look at these chumps, they have no idea what they are doing. I, on the other, do. How awesome is it to be me. There is nobody better.” From this egomaniac stand point, my vision of the world was blurry as hell. Every time I would **** up with a woman, I’d say, “She is just dumb and doesn’t see how great I am. Stupid chick”. Every time I talked to a girl I thought, “She likes me… how can she not like me, I am a great DJ after all.” I thought every girl I talked to wanted me. Dead serious.


This ego tower is a dangerous thing. It is very hard to admit being worse than you actually are. It is very hard to admit you were wrong. However, this is the only way to start learning the world for what it really is.
An egomaniac DJ will turn a situation into his favor, even if he just got the **** kicked out of him for trying to kiss a girl. He will make fun of other guys, who are actually doing better with girls than he is.
If you think you are a god’s gift to women, think again. Are you actually hurting your game by overrating yourself?


The last note I have is about the times I did everything by the book. I looked for the sings of interest, I ended the calls first, I never left a message on an answering machine. I would count “1,2,3” before coming up to a girl and starting a convo. I didn’t get very good results.
The confusion started climbing into my head when I was noticing other successful guys around women. I would observe and run a check list, “Ok, he is using Kino… check. She is playing with her hair… check. She just told him to grab her some candy, and he went and did it… Hey, stop the presses, that doesn’t compute… That is not the right move… Hey, wait, now they are making out! What the hell, he just told her she was very pretty… no, no, what are you doing, chump?!! Wait a second; they are going to the bedroom kissing! That does not compute damnit!”

Notice how I thought like a machine loaded with different “What to do//What not to do” scripts. What I failed to realize is that we are HUMANS. And, thus, we are all different. Different things work on different girl. Yet, most girls are simply attracted to the guy who is simply in peace with himself.


This, by far, is the longest post I’ve ever written. I typed all this because I’ve seen guys on this board making the same mistakes, and I really hope this will clear some of the confusion in your heads. I know this site is a big messy pot of random suggestions. You might think it will take years to organize all this, and shelf it around in your mind. However, that is the hard way.

If you asked me today what my strategy with women was, I would reply, “The strategy to women is being happy with yourself, and believing in yourself first and foremost. When you realize that you are indeed a great guy, and that women always love meeting great guys, it is quite easy to chat up any girl and leave her with a great impression. This isn’t a giant puzzle you have to solve in order to be good with women. Be a good guy, not a nice guy. Be a funny guy who can bust their balls, who can make them feel special, but at the same time isn’t afraid to walk away. Remember, everything changes every instant, girls come and go, along with styles, morals, and ideals. Do not try to change yourself to fit everything else. Make yourself first, and fit the world to your liking.

Good luck to all my friend here at sosuave.


Dennis. Oct 26, 2004.
 

WhitePimp

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Excellent post! I myself have been guilty lately of overrating myself, and it definitely has hurt me in the long run I think. And I've definitely been too much of an ******* and lost interest from girls that way, but like you, that in itself is a good way to learn to bend the rules occasionally and just do what you want and try to make someone else happy if possible. I agree with you 100%
 

SageOFAllenAge

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Good post.
 

sunrise

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I know its my first post, but I've been reading this website and its forum for more than a year now and finally decided to start posting.

My opinion is, this site gives ideas on how to act to be successful with women, however some may wrongfully misinterpret all advices as strict rules. Overdoing something is never a good idea and not just with women. IMO you simply need to show the woman you are not a pushover without coming off as a complete a$$hole on purpose. You don't have to force yourself to say no to every single request she has. Your definition of DJ shouldn't be arrogant a$$hole who plays the game to a T, does nothing to others, yet expects everything in return. That's simply not how I see it. A DJ will give his girl a jacket if she's cold but he won't walk her dog or go out and pickup her groceries. A DJ is not about being at the other extreme end, opposite of AFC'ness. Your last paragraph is really a lesson even I still need to learn and you said it perfectly.
 

cannibustacap

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This thread is perfect for me. It really sums up EVERYTHING that is going through my mind at this time.

I see all these AFC's with great wonderful relationships and I'd jokingly think to myself "That will never work out because I, the great cannibustacap, only know how to make it work" :rolleyes:

Every day I realized more and more this was bullshat. I took my knowledge for granted, got my signals crossed.

Once you "get it" (like the original poster) life will be beautiful for you and everyone around you.

You need to take all the incredible information on these boards, and from ASF, and David De Angelo, etc etc and MOLD it to your true self.

Becoming a DJ is not changing who you are but finding out who you are. And if you have a desire to be the best you can be, then you truly are a DJ. Now is just your journey, you have the rest of your life. Make it worthwhile.
 

comic_relief

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Excellent post

Oxide and Cannibustacap

Very nice posts. This post caught my attention. I don't usually read a post this long but I am glad I stuck through and read it.

Good going Dennis
 

LT1

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Oxide, you bring up a number of areas I can relate to.

When I first started out (probably like most others here), I took the Jerk vs. Nice guy idea too far to the point of being an a.sshole. It gave me a false sense of power and confidence. Sadly, I was only turning off those around me. I can look back at that now though and realize that it was an important step to take to be free from all that was holding me back (with women, socially, etc.). Am I still and a.sshole? No, I'm myself, its all a process of change, Now when girls call me 'mean' or a 'jerk' its usually done flirtatiously.

Girls love a mystery, it turns them on. The difference between a 'mystery' and 'being difficult' is all in how you handle the situation.

The Ego Tower (good wording). Many people fall into this trap. They come to this forum (often worse then most guys out there) and after reading article after article believe they are qualified to judge others because in some way they are 'better'. The truth is, these people are too blind by their own condescending outlook to see their own flaws.

Believing in yourself and your abilities is one thing (this is genuine confidence), but labeling yourself as 'better' than someone for it only makes you a fake.

The biggest problem with this forum is its misguiding information. Guys come find the website. They do the a.sshole stage (which for some is necessary), they raise themselves to a 'god-among-chumps' status (after reading all the BE THE ALPHA MALE material on here), they memorize line after line and technique after technique and in the end, what do they have to prove for it. I would'nt doubt it that out of all the members here, if maybe (maybe) 10% actively went out and used the information to gain field expirence. And how many made it a habit to go out and try to learn after going out once or twice... I'd say the number drops to about 4%. My point is that all the tactics on here are great, but the goal isn't to 'get all the girls' by following the information here, its to develop yourself into a better person and find what works for you.

If you work at it hard enough you get to a stage where you dismiss all that you've learned here. You come to a point in your life where your so socially attune with your surroudings that you can read the energy people give off (vibing) and talk and close anyone. It becomes natural.

SoSuave is a great foundation for self discovery, but its by no means a life guide. At some point you need to let go of this safety net and find yourself.

Edit: Instead of the 'Fall of the Don Juan', its the 'Enlightenment of the Don Juan'.
 

A-Unit

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Awesome job, bud.

Good job. Someone gets it.

And you know what, it takes a rise and fall to see the total spectrum of possibility. You can't be a pimp w/out first knowing what the AFC does wrong.

In life you must experience the sour, to enjoy the sweet.

Only with brevity and value can we enjoy life, for if all was guaranteed, would it be worthwhile?

In some way, when you're young, at least for me, I sought hot girls because that's what I fantasized about when i was 8, and then 10, and 12, and so on. I fantasized about meeting and enjoying time with beautiful women. Then it became an all consuming goal, something that frightened me because "I could lose it." Well...you can't lose what you never had. And anything acquired can be lost. So instead I sought to be my best self and if you don't like me...fine, move on.

It'll be an evolutionary process. But at 19, with some wisdom and experience, you can feel confident knowing you've partaken in the buffet of life.



A-Unit
 

JT47319

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At some point, the woman has to win you. Just like at some point you decide you WANT the woman, at some point she too decides she WANTS you.

I have a PUA friend who once went on a good one-hour C&F session with this incredibly funny girl. It was ****ing hilarious, but then another PUA friend turned to the first and said, "Dude, what are you doing? LET HER WIN." At that point, he (and you) can proceed to seduce her.

Unobtainability, C&F, etc are used to increase attraction, but once past that point, you need to SEDUCE.

Think of it as two buckets, the C&F bucket and the rapport bucket. If you fill one up to overflowing, then you're going to blow yourself out.

PROGRESS THE SARGE. Being "The Prize" and C&F are just one phase of a flirtatious interaction.
 

KillingTime

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I've always said that a lot of the guys here end up just the way they started, obsessed over women.

Isn't the whole point of being a so-called "DJ" to be the best YOU you can be and to not need a woman (or anyone else) to make your life complete/happy?

Guys come in here wanting to get women, they go through several stages and end up with one thing on their minds: WOMEN. This time around they might be much more confident and have gained a lot of knowledge but the point is, the number one priority in their lives is still the same: WOMEN.

I haven't had a single girlfriend since I joined this place, I could care less... I really don't go out clubbing or any of that because I don't care, I'm in college and too busy to be concerned with women right now. I'm 100X more confident though and if I wanted to snag a girl I could do it no prob.
But i'm still myself, i'm still a joker and have fun around girls.... if a girl asks me a small favor I will do it (if a guy friend asked me I would do it too, no biggie) the only difference is I know a womans way of thinking differs from ours so I know to be a bit of a challenge and all that. And I've got my priorities straight, which is why I don't have as many women as some might expect of a "DJ"... but school and my hobbies are my priorities.

Point is, you can take all this stuff too far, just like anything else. If you constantly walk around wearing a pimp hat....
 

JT47319

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Originally posted by KillingTime
I'm 100X more confident though and if I wanted to snag a girl I could do it no prob.
You won't actually know if you can until you try.

And the point of this forum and others is not that you SHOULDN'T need women (which is a ridiculous assertion since men need women just like women need men), but to have such a plethora of pvssy that you don't care about any particular woman's actions since you know you can dip into your harem and get another. Not to be isolated like some celibate, porn jerking, asexual, loner
 

TACH

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Wow man, just wanted to say that this is a great post. Def. made me understand some of my short comings. I whole heartedly agree with you about that 'ego tower.' I was in the same boat there and only now do I realize that it was exactly that that was causing me to **** things up the most. Ruined a relationship about a year ago and is doing the same thing to the one I'm in now. Thanks for posting this, now let's just hope the mistakes I've been making due to this recently don't completely **** me up now. Great post.
 

prototype

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Oxide that was incredible. i was so touched at the end my eyes were ****ing wet. hahahahah! I have lost some of my best friends just because of trying to change myself.:( Everyone should read this post its one of a kind.
 

-HPNOTIQ-

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Oxide..dood..I read that whole thing nodding my head the whole way in agreement..man..I like how you call it the ego tower.

I agre whole heartedly on pretty much every point you brought up. I think fellas have to also remember that if the woman is into you, you can do pretty much anything you want to do short of being a p*ssified AFC. As long as there is reciprocation, mutual slight AFCness in a relationship CAN work.
 

Sart

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appalling

I am disgusted at this post. Are you trying to say that being yourself is good? No no no, I think you should be someone else. If you are a loser, act like a winner, if you are........only joking.

Good post dude. Mind you, I think that it IS the point of this site to be yourself, learn yourself. Well said, the first really long post I ever stuck with.
 

jakeyboy

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haha agreed with Sart. usually when i see a long post, i click the back button, but yours was an exception..

two thumbs up, excellent stuff... it rang true to what i've been through, the ego thing especially. haha, i too thought that every woman i met HAD to like me. like how could she possibly not righT?

haha.

damn. great post once again.
 

Jariel

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Yes, I totally agree. I've travelled very similar circles, reaching the same point of confusion and frustration again and again.

Forget rules, strategies and forget playing games! Be confident, but not arrogant. Be respectful, but not a doormat. Be cool, but not cold. In short, find a balance.

I propose that this thread be stickied for a while. I think the fact that so many of us can relate and agree says something about its validity.
 

DJ_Dork

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The problem with some DJ rules is that it makes you want to "logically" follow through everything on each action/reaction.

Yes that ego tower is a bad thing. After reading the DJ stuff it made me more confident and think everyone else is unworthy and thinking.. OH that guy is an AFC because he's carrying her groceries or she's telling him where to turn the car right or left. The thing is, him and her they're banging.
 
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