The Ethics of Spinning Plates

[bugsquish]

It has been suggested that spinning plates is a bad idea as it simply masks deeper issues. In my own case I don't really doubt this too much. Others have theorised that plate spinning is more of an ideology than a reality for most people. I'm just how many people actually follow this philosophy in a real sense. Do you plate spin? What is your definition are of what constitutes spinning plates? And what is your perception of the ethics involved?

I have always struggled with monogamy. This is a big subject for another post, but I have also experimented with different ways of sustaining multiple sexual partners (or abstaining).

Monogamy - (staying faithful to a single partner) doesn't work, it leaves me very frustrated.
Polygyny (openly keeping multiple girlfriends) doesn't work, as the girls get attached and jealous of each other.
Open relationships (with a single girl) don't work for the same reason.
Cheating (secret ONSs whilst in an LTR) doesn't work because it's just plain wrong and will get you in trouble.
Multi-timing (secretly keeping multiple girlfriends) is something I didn't try because I had enough hassle with cheating. I really don't like to lie. But I can understand why people do it.
Plate Spinning - The only way I have been able to sustain an appetite for multiple sexual partners it to constantly add and drop girls from the list and never get close to anyone.

For me, it can be fun, and liberating, but it can be hard work and I feel like a predator sometimes. And it can also get quite lonely as I have to keep my distance or sabotage potential relationships with girls I really like because I know it won't work. I recently stopped seeing this one girl before it even gained momentum because she was absolutely stunning, a 9, educated, exotic, adventurous, and she really liked me, and definitely wasn't interested in casual sex. This girl was serious LTR material and it was fast heading that way, so I deliberately ended it and burned my bridges by sleeping with her friend. I know this is crazy behavior but I can't help myself. Some of my friends think I actually have a problem!

I'd class a girl as a spinning plate if I have had sex with her and know for a fact that I will do so again. I'm not including girls who I'm not attracted to, are too much effort, I haven't slept with yet, are one night stands, or have cut loose because they are getting too close. If it's still fun, ongoing and guaranteed no strings then it's a spinning plate.

Does this match your own definition? With the exception of abstinance, do you people count any of these other 'methods' as plate spinning? What are your thoughts on the ethics of these? Or do you have another definition altogether? Do you have the same issues as monogamy as me? And the big question, are you spinning plates right now?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Noobs will be noobs.

Plate Theory

 

[bugsquish]

Thanks for the link, but "Noobs will be noobs"? If that's aimed at me, I don't think that kind of elitist comment is really neccessary. I'm trying to provoke a philosophical discussion, not look for advice.

 

[scrouds]

Ethics is what society uses to keep people down and doing their bidding. Get rid of your bad feelings and you'll be able to get more.

Just be aware that while ethics keep you back, you can do real damage to yourself if you don't give the appearance of having ethics.

 

[georgie24]

Thanks for the link, but "Noobs will be noobs"? If that's aimed at me, I don't think that kind of elitist comment is really neccessary. I'm trying to provoke an ethical discussion, not look for advice.

whats the obession with disecting every move towards progression, spin plates stop sulking..

ethics? go to soAFC.com

cheers

 

[bugsquish]

@Samsade

I opened this up with the comment about masking other issues because I read this in another thread which started me thinking about all of this in the first place.

1) Polygyny and a need for multiple females.
... and more importantly ...
2) Ways to maintain this lifestyle, with 'plate spinning' being the idealogical solution.

The problem is that in it's pure form, 'plate spinning' is difficult to achieve and maintain compared to some of the other 'methods' I mentioned above. Especially at lower levels of play. An open relationship would be for the purpose of having multiple females, not an attempt to keep someone. I've had a rocky journey on this. I'm just wondering what experiences people have with maintaining multiple females, plate spinning or otherwise. Can anyone comment on where they are personally with this? Do you disagree that we even need multiple women?

Successful plate spinning is also not without other problems such as the lonliness I mentioned. That emotional intimacy is something you do miss if you have been in any LTRs. I know you can get close to a women without being in a LTR but it's not quite the same. It can also become addictive / obsessive to constantly seek new women, and it can get in the way of your friendships.

 

[Die Hard]

Great thread. I'd like the more experienced DJ's to shed some light on bug's questions!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Alright, lets clarify a few terms here first.

Open Relationship
The problem with an "open relationship" is that word, 'relationship'. Throw this insipid term out of your vocabulary. It was coined in the post-sexual revolution 70's by married swingers and wife swappers who wanted to get in on the free-love action, guilt free, and still stay married. The only open relationship you're likely to have in 2011 is a semi-reliable ƒuck buddy. In 2011, 'open relationship' is a Beta chump euphemism for justifiable cuckoldry.

Abstinence
Abstinence is another rationale for forced virginity. Making necessity a virtue is the first hallmark of an optionless AFC.

The remainder of your classifications hinge upon non-exclusivity and how a guy initiates and maintains it. 'Cheating' implies a precondition of exclusivity. For far too many men, exclusivity becomes an idealized goal state. In the long term, they see it as some insurance against the insecure fear they have of loneliness. What they fail to realize is that the only real cure for loneliness comes from within. Putting your faith in an exclusive relationship in order to counter loneliness makes a man necessitous on preserving that relationship no matter the cost. This mindset leads to a virtually guaranteed ONEitis.

One thing I notice in your OP is this fear of discovery or dealing with situations of jealousy between concurrent women. This is only a problem when you are overt in your non-exclusivity. As POOK once said, women would rather share a successful Man than be saddled with a faithful loser. That's certainly true, so long as a woman is kept in an ambiguous state of competition. No self-respecting woman is going to stay with a man who overtly flaunts his commodity status with other women for very long. However, concurrent women become much more easy to maintain when the specter of competition anxiety is fostered in her imagination.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Bugsquish,
There is much talk about freedom in this World but very few people are genuinely free.....You seem to want some form of ethical code or control...why?....aren't there quite enough controls on human behaviour already?....If the control freaks of this World had their way,we would all be walking around carrying great gasometers on our back to breath the very air that surrounds us...No sod off with your controls...Why can't I love two three or more women at the same time?...Do you want to eat Steak and eggs every day?...Peter Sellers had fifty cars,Imelda Marcos had two and a half thousand pairs of shoes,besides them,my three lovely Ladies seem but minor endulgences.

 

[bugsquish]

@ Scaramouche, scrouds, georgie et. al... I think I hit a few nerves with the word 'ethics', and possibly some confusion about what it means. Ethics is about the philosophy behind people's decisions, not an absolute set of rules about what is right or wrong. Your ethics will be different from mine and that's absolutely fine. We can still discuss them.

@ Rollo, thanks for the input. I believe the cuckoldry definition of an open relationship can be reversed too. If a girl is in love with you, she may well accept your insistance on sleeping with someone else, rather than lose you. It's something I've seen a few times. I guess these girls have self esteem issues and I've exploited that despite being honest the whole time. There's an ethical dilemma right there.

It's a fair comment about my fear of the jealousy between different women, because in the past it has caused me to lose many women that I really like. Honesty is something that is really important to me even if it causes me problems.

You made me realise there is another category, or in fact a sub category of plate spinning. Overt (what I do) and Covert which I hadn't really considered. But I can't see the 'ambiguous state of competition' being sustainable for long periods without some form of subterfuge. Surely it would gravitate towards multi-timing as the girl gets more attached and assumes exclusivity. Eventually she will outright asks you if you are sleeping with someone else.

 

[Blusher]

Polygyny (openly keeping multiple girlfriends) doesn't work, as the girls get attached and jealous of each other.

You close the debate in the initial message because you haven't made it work for yourself. A better question would be HOW to make it work.

I have had girls getting attached to the point of not wanting this sort of arrangement and others that kept coming back to enjoy more great times together. And they knew exactly what I did the rest of the week with other girls.

oh, and I'm still friends with many of them...

 

[zekko]

I think the easiest way to spin plates is simply to keep things casual. We're going to go out and have some fun, let's get to know each other and see where it goes, that type of thing. As long as you don't let yourself get pinned down to a committed relationship, she has no real claim on you anyway. You're just out there dating (or whatever you want to call it).

Obviously in this scenario it may become apparent that you and a plate are not compatible, or the girl wants something more, and she spins out. You have a constant influx of plates to replace the ones that are dropping out.

All this two timing, multi-timing, cheating, open relationship type of thing sounds a little different than just spinning plates to me. That implies that you are wanting to keep one main girl as a sort of LTR, while you're out with other women on the side. There are certainly guys who do this, but again that seems like a different concept to me than simply spinning plates. It sounds more like a have your cake and eat it too type of thing.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

You wanted to start a philosophical discussion?

What is the logical foundation for the suggestion that spinning plates "belies deeper issues"? There isn't one. The act of spinning plates is logically founded by the philosophy that your life belongs to you; any pity or sympathy you feel for others is an emotion that is born from the guilt that you can somehow be responsible for their actions. So check your premises, and you will see that your bad juju against spinning plates is not supported by rationality.

We are all free individuals, and as long as you don't force women to date or fvck you at the end of a gun, you have no rational cause for any guilt or shame.

This is not to say that banging an army of mindless slvts is always the best choice for you to make, but the idea that you should feel guilty for acting in your rational self-interest is wrong. That is the intellectual challenge of living as a free man: the knowledge that you must honor the same rights of others that you hold sacred for yourself.

"Do I want others to break into my barn and steal my air compressor?"

What is my thesis on property rights?

"Do women stick a gun to my head and force me to fvck them?"

What is my thesis on individual choice?

Make an honest attempt to answer these questions. When you will do, you will see that you do not force others to interact with you in any way, so you cannot do the same to them, so there is no reason for feeling guilty for women's choices.

They'd be the first to tell you, "I make my own decisions!" And they do.

And the consequences are theirs to live with.

 

[Lexington]

Plate spinning is like buying a car.

Would you commit to buying from the first car dealership you visited? That would probably be a terrible idea.

A better idea would be to visit multiple dealerships, various websites etc. and see what's out there. Then after you've thoroughly evaluated your options, you try to narrow it down to one. If you don't find a deal you like, you keep shopping.

There is nothing unethical about it. If there was never an explicit commitment made, then it is perfectly fair to evaluate all your options. The girls know what they are getting into and they made a choice.

It's safe to say that the non-plate spinners have plenty of deep issues to deal with as evidenced by the divorce rate in this country. We should only commit -if we choose to commit at all- when we are completely satisfied and only after making an informed decision.

 

[bugsquish]

It's all about status. A man who knowingly shares his woman or tolerates her cheating has lowered his status to beneath hers. Likewise, a man enjoying multiple women (without exclusivity, let's say) demonstrates higher value.

From a male perspective this is true. But it does represent double standards at the same time. I wouldn't really expect my harem to stay exclusive to me in a modern setting if I'm not offering exclusivity to them. Without being duplicitous, in my experience women who are in my life on an openly non-exclusive basis will come under 3 rough categories:

1) They are in love with me and it hurts them, but they do it anyway. I actualy don't think other guys interest them much. This is when I start to feel guilty and try to end things.
2) They enjoy the sex and don't have any better options at present. The chances are they will de-spin themselves if they find a suitable guy who will offer them exclusivity. This is when I think "oh crap, I actually liked her"
3) They are slvts who probably do sleep with other guys as well. Fun, but hardly fulfilling.

Anyone other girls would just refuse to be a plate. If I was to give them the illusion that it was going to go anywhere I would probably have more success overall, but I can't shake the honesty.

Anyway, nobody is really commenting much on what they actually do. Plate spinners, past, present and future. Tell your stories.