the double LJBF rejection

[LateComer]

Hi, would like to get some input on this situation.

I got the classical LJBF rejection. Of course, nocked me quite a bit. But as I like this woman a lot, not just attraction wise, but maybe even more so just smart and very knowledgable, I would really like to be friend with her on a purely talking and mentally exchanging level - the intellectual wh0re thing, as Rollo Tomassi would say.
But even for that I got resistence, and also I made the "mistake" of one or two sexual jokes that could be understood (and maybe they were) as hitting on her.
So she never made time to just meet and converse, and finally she said she doesn't want to see me, as she is not looking for a boy friend. Before she said she has a boy friend. That did not disturb me, as I didn't want anything more from her, but of course my infatuation was also there and seemed to be obvious.

From Rollo Tomassi:
"The LJBF rejection also serves as an ego preservation for her in that having offered the false olive branch of 'friendship' to him in her rejection she also can sleep that night knowing that she (and any of her peers) wont think any less of herself. After all, she offered to be friends, right? She is excused from any feelings of personal guilt or any responsibilities for his feelings if she still wants to remain amiable with him."

Question now, could she have reacted any different, what would be the correct way for her. Why should she feel bad about it, she never made any promisses, did she? She has no duty to accept any advances. Still, in this case it seems obvious that she was not interested in any friendship at all, so she should not have made it look like, right?

Any other thoughts? I know Rollo Tomassi thinks you can be only boy or girl friend (you fack or you don't). With DJ mentality you don't care for friendship, but I do have another one which is very wonderful und I actually enjoy talking to this other friend more than I would want to fack her (also not 100% my type).
But I also admit, being friend is maybe a way to delay accepting the truth. But in the latter case I have no problem with that and I get a lot of great communication going. In this rejection case I am maybe rationalizing, but I would have really been happy if a friendship could have been developed. Of course, even for that it needs two.

 

[realsmoothie]

Being friends with girls is a divisive topic on this forum, from what I can tell. Some guys think there's just no way it can happen if either the man or the woman has even a bit of attraction for the other.

I disagree. I think it's OK, and actually even kind of useful for your DJ'ing as girls have friends and at least give you some girl experience (if you're lacking).

Yeah, there is that whole "not accepting the truth" thing. My opinion: you need to look at yourself seriously and decide whether you are strong enough to hang around a girl that LJBF'd you without falling into oneitis. In my own life, I have in the past fallen into this pattern pretty badly. Recently, though, there have been a couple of girls that (while not LJBF's) nothing developed from... and we are still friends.

One VERY recent case, though, is still in progress. She flaked on me repeatedly (we have been sexual in the past) and I have pretty much stopped talking to her even though she still calls. It really feels good. I am hoping that over the long run we can still be friends though, because I enjoyed being around her and she is awesome social proof (hot, lots of friends, and chatty).

You sound like you're pretty self-aware. Trust your instincts.

 

[Cod3r]

Seems to me like you should leave this situation alone and cut losses. Why hang around when a girl dosen't want you around ?? You're definitely into her more than friends, you should admit that to yourself and then accept that she isn't into you and then move on with your life...

I've ran into this prob. few times and basically dosen't work out. Had a wonderful friend whom i shared attraction, she didn't and i couldn't hold my emotions around her and it came out in subtle but annoying ways. Eventually it comes to a very disturbing end, just end it now, never work out 4u. Trust me and save urself aggravation bro.


-Cod3r

 

[flexion_]

Wow so much drama and confusion over a girl that doesn't like you. If you actually and truly want her around as a "friend" then none of this crap matters. But that isn't actually the case - you are hoping that by hanging around her as a friend you will convert her into liking you sexually... it ain't going to happen! It will have the opposiite effect that you want.

Just be yourself and she can take it or leave it just like any other friend you have in your life. You aren't getting any sex from her so all the "whatifs" don't apply.

 

[d9930380]

I think it depends on how good a friend you want the girl to be. Someone you rarely see then yea - no problem. Otherwise it will descend into oneitus. It also depends on how attracted you are to her too.

I think it's best to avoid.

 

[Un-Aru]

Ok let's assume for a moment you don't have any romantic inclinations whatsoever, and you want to hang out with this person for the pure mental stimulation it may provide...

What you are essentially asking is "How do I manipulate this person into being my friend?" Which is, unless you're an undercover fed, kinda creepy...

Here's the thing, when you get the LJBF line it's usually under one of two circumstances.

1. You're already established friends, she sees you as a brother, you hang out, talk about guys she likes, but when you decide you want more and go for it she just doesn't see you THAT way. But she does truly value for friendship, and still wants to hang out.
2. You know each other a little, a bit of witty banter here and there, you decide to go for it but the thought of hooking up makes her stomach curdle, and she delivers the LJBF line. In actual fact, if she was being honest what she meant to say was "Please get away from me, all of a sudden I feel very uncomfortable around you..."

You got number 2 bro. Sorry for the harsh reality lesson...

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

LATECOMER, you've obviously read through my LJBF thread so I wont harp on that line since it appears you understand my take on why women use this very common tactic. Just be sure you realize it is a strategy and one that's to be an expected failsafe for most women. But your post brings me to an issue I haven't gone into in a while and this is reason why men and women cannot be friends until intimacy is resolved between the two. Bear in mind that the LJBF escape clause is entirely different from the issue of actual intersexual friendships. LJBF is a social convention whereas the friendships that exist between the sexes and the degree to which they're participated in is a gender-based social issue.

Write this in your notebook in big red letters - Men and Women cannot be friends. Repeat this to yourself over and over. Now you're goning to ask me why so I'll spell this out in the short version here: You will never be 'friends' because men and women have to resolve the issue of intimacy before any relationship can develop. Virtually any girl that you are attracted to (which is 90% of them) cannot be your friend because you can't satisfactorily resolve intimacy with her unless she's willing to do the same. Understand? When I met Mrs. Tomassi (and a lot of other potential Mrs. Tomassis) I didn't pretend to 'be her friend'. She knew what I wanted and the feeling was mutual. After we were intimate, then we developed a freindship and found out we were very compatible. Don't brainwash yourself into thinking you're different in some effort to prove how sensitive you are and what a great shoulder yours is to cry on or to avoid being labeled as 'shallow.' This is how guy's work. And how do I know? Because I went the same route too. You only end up perpetually on her 'friend' ladder and turn into her emotional sponge or worse still, her cuddle b1tch. You're wasting time either way.

Another perspective to explore is the degree to which intersexual friendships develop in contrast to same-sex friendships. When you consider the boundries that exist in intersexual friendships that don't in same-sex ones you can see the limitations. For instance, most men will tolerate conditions of friendship with women that would otherwise end a friendship with their male friends becasue even the outside chance of possible intimacy will exist where it wont (with heterosexual males) in a same sex friendship. Also, you can be a friend to another guy without the risk of telling him something he might not want to hear but needs to anyway for his own good without worrying about losing his 'intimacy', because that's not what's holding your interest in the friendship.

 

[grinder]

I have tried to be friends with women. Failed. Every time. When they hug you (ever so hard), after you have shared a special moment. Notice how some extra blood seems to get shunted to a certain member? I have a very sick female "friend" who I have to question my motives when I visit her in the hospital. I'm trying to be a good human, but, I'm a man. Yup, I'm still going to visit her every day I can. I "love" her, but is it altruistic/platonic? NO.

The motive is irrelevant, the outcome is, I will help her and take care of her for a MULTITUDE of reasons. One of them is, desire. What's wrong with that?

 

[blueguy]

Powerful males don't waste time sticking around females they are sexually interested in, and women know this. If she knew you were interested - The longer you stick around, the weaker they see you, the more you're screwed.

That being said, you can start off being friends and escalate things physically whenever she shows signs of "compliance." (she thinks she's winning you over) But you must ACT or actually be disinterested...


Should you want to work your way out:

Read this article http://sexrevolutionblog.com/?p=86 (it's great)

Time (walk away) + increased value on your part + compliance from her to confirm she sees your higher value before you show interest again = out of the friend zone

Then make your move.

 

[LateComer]

Thanks, every single response has been all helpful.

Rollo, OK, LJBF and intersexual friendship has no direct connection. Then I have two specific questions here.

1. Is maybe just a small detail, but what would you expect from a quality woman, how should she react instead of giving the false LJBF statement?

2. Sorry to be that slow, but when you say intimacy must be resolved, do you mean (intimacy = sex) or (intimacy = whatever intimacy). (Resolved = it has to happen) or (resolved = every party knows what to expect)? Like, it is absolutely clear one party does not want to fsck and the other accepts it. Can then friendship be there and an emotional intimacy develop? I think it can. It might be some form of sexual transmutation, but what the heck, why not! There is more than s3x in life and actually I might desire sexually someone else even more. So can there be emotional or intelectual intimacy between man and woman without sex? Why not?
Could it even be a cure to someones infatuation, like getting this woman to know better helps to see her shortcomings and beginning to see it from a higher level, but still enjoying the whole process and liking and loving this person for the person she is and the ideas, inspiration, and stimulation she gives?

 

[blueguy]

You define the relationship since you're the man. What do you want? If you don't want intimacy, then friendship is fine. If you do want intimacy, you have to make it clear that you won't be her friend without intimacy and walk away. You define intimacy. Intimacy can be whatever you want. You send her the contract and see if she accepts your terms. But you always set the terms. Don't let her try to set them. She will not respect you.

Since a sexual change has taken place in general culture, you can develop an emotional connection with a girl that you were sexually interested in, but she will likely not become sexual with you in fear of losing your friendship. You can become more powerful during this time to 'prove' yourself to her, but it likely won't work. She'd rather have one boyfriend and one friend than just one boyfriend. There is the potential that she would know what she is doing to you as 'stringing you along.' If that's the risk you want to take and it does not bother you seeing somebody else's arms around her, kissing her, etc., then you can be her friend. But if that would bother you, don't make it harder for yourself than it already is. It can be hell. Walk away... and come back more powerful. Then set the terms properly.

Just be aware that the stronger your emotional connection you create with the girl without sexuality in reciprocation, the more you have engraved into your contract that this is acceptable. And ultimately, you will lose a lot of friendship as well because her main man will be somebody else.