The DJ Bible doesn't work for me

izza

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Shyyhs said:
It's not that I'm sitting around reading it, saying "it's not working". I'm going out approaching people(male and female) and I'm ending up having negative interactions over and over and over again. And it's getting to me.
Good job Shyyhs. Honestly, good for you. You realized much quicker than I did that a lot of the stuff in the DJ Bible can be really misleading. I'm willing to bet you will be very successful when the puzzle pieces come together.

Especially impressive to me is your instant grasping of the basic problem with a lot of the advice there: if you keep repeating a negative experience, your desire to do it more is going to keep diminishing. It's basic Pavlov.

Follow the fun principle: approach if it's fun. If it's not, don't. Continue a conversation if it's fun. Kiss a girl if it's fun to you. If it's not, don't. That's my first piece of advice to you.

My second is if that advice on the DJ Bible doesn't work RIGHT AWAY, drop it. You'll know right away if it fits your style, you don't need to keep trying.

Are you in high school? What's your story? What's stopping you?

Anyway, believe me chicks can't give you an esteem boost. Or if they do, then leave, you're back where you started or worse. Self-esteem comes from friends and family - your friends and family need to make you feel like you're an amazing, funny, and attractive person. If they don't, get off this board and fix the real problem in your life. You'll be wasting your time here. Meanwhile, buy a masturbation toy that you like.
 

izza

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FYI There's a lot of good information and a lot of crap information on every board. I would find posters who post things that fit YOUR STYLE. If something doesn't fit YOUR STYLE, ignore it. Personally, I love juggler - you can find videos on youtube, and an archive at speedseduction.net (or some such).

I would help more, but my internet connection sucks lol.
 

Iron

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What works for one person sucks for another...it takes a lot of searching to find one perfect gem out of a pile of rubble. Approach things from all angles....think abstractly. Many things in life a interconnected, so if you feel lost in a giving situation.....pay attention to the surrounding details, the connections, the "if this/then that"......the pieces of puzzle make their rough shape known....like a shadow, but it's up to you to find their actual physical entity.


Also...maybe the people you approach suck....I know TONS of girls with hot bodies and cute faces who are real b!tches.....so don't always curve yourself up.
 

Kaim Argonar

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izza said:
Follow the fun principle: approach if it's fun. If it's not, don't. Continue a conversation if it's fun. Kiss a girl if it's fun to you. If it's not, don't. That's my first piece of advice to you.
You sure that posters like him should do that and refrain from the experiences that are hurtful? In these cases, quite simply, even if you do your best, every kind of attempt results in disappointment and negative stimuli. Everything appears unpractical and nothing works.

Perhaps the answer lies in persisting still, and hoping to get lucky.
 

Shyyhs

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Follow the fun principle: approach if it's fun. If it's not, don't. Continue a conversation if it's fun. Kiss a girl if it's fun to you. If it's not, don't. That's my first piece of advice to you.
Yeah I like your take on this. It's true.

I think I have this judging issue. I'll try my best to describe it. I think I'm constantly judging people and attaching them to a hierarchy scale. I'm sort of ranking everyone. And it's not necessarily looks, I do it for both male and female. So if I see someone that I think is higher on the scale than me, I feel awkward around them. If they're below me, and very below it becomes easier. Like I could go up to a bunch of 10 year old kids and there would be no problem. Why because they're kids, and they rank very low.

I think I have an issue with exposing myself, mentally. Like I have a real problem with pick up lines and all the crap associated here, like opinion openers and cubes and crap like that. I don't want a womans opinion unless I want her opinion. That's why I've always been drawn toward the Juggler Method. And with reading JM, I rarely ever share myself. I never share my thoughts and who I am, and that leads to not relating with people.

I think that's the deep down issue I have and it's exposing myself, the real me.

I rarely ever speak in the "I" perspective.

You know you'll see some people go up to a stranger, say a sentence and the stranger reciprocates and BOOM they're in a conversation. When I try this, people don't reciprocate. I'm trying to push the conservation along, but the other people just don't want to actually contribute. And I'm standing there with these awkward long moments of silence.

It's just something I do not get.

Are you in high school? What's your story?
I'm 24. I've graduated from University a few years ago. And I just sick and tired of this crap. To be honest, that's my story. And no, my goals are not get a girlfriend. I just want to live a better life. I want to enjoy myself more. If I go out to a bar, I don't want to be the guy that just stands at the side with his drink, talking to his guy friends, really not having any fun.
 

Shyyhs

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Also forgot to mention, I'm sure most of you heard of the show Keys to the VIP. Which is a PUA show. One of the "gurus" on that show suggested that you go out with the intention of failing. And I can see the merit in it, but that really doesn't mesh with me.

I can tell simply by a strategic game I play. I can go in half assed, with the intention of failing and losing. It doesn't help any when I genuinely try and fail.

Because I'm not trying. I know why I'm failing. It's hard to deal with failure when you genuinely try your best.
 

Shyyhs

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Also, another take on the internal workings of my mind. And that would be "purpose" to a conversation.

If I have purpose for the conversation, than it's a lot easier. Like I tried a few things to get over this shyness I have. I have worked at two call centres. So I'd spend 8 hrs a day in conversation, but this doesn't help. Because of purpose. When people call up, they know what they want. I know what they want. They know what they need to say, I know what I need to say.

Same thing with the first week of the bootcamp. Saying hi to people is no big deal for me. I grew up in a small community, everyone said hi. It's just common courtesy. I can go up to a stranger and ask for directions, it's no problem. Because it simply becomes apparent what my purpose is, and what their purpose is.

When it comes to a stranger, for which I don't have what I'd call a purpose, I have a difficult time with.

Sorry about the 3 posts in a row, just having an easy time articulating how I'm thinking.
 

HarlequinMan

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if purpose is your problem, then maybe you should designate a purpose before you approach. Have you tried talking to shop clerks? Ask about the product (purpose) then talk to them about them....then escalate if you feel good about it.
 

Shyyhs

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I have asked clerks about products and other stuff, but it just seems like a crutch.
 

Señor Fingers

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The DJ Bible doesn't work for me
The DJB doesn't work for anyone. It won't shine your shoes, suck your d!ck or make you money. You're the one that has to man up and work for yourself, the Bible is just a guide to do that.

Grab your balls and do a DJ bootcamp. Start working for YOURSELF.
 

Shyyhs

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I have. I'd done all the the exercises. It's great to see another person reciprocating this idea that I'm just reading it and sitting on my ass. Well, I'm out doing it and it's depressing me.

Despite everyones psychological ideals on this site, desensitization isn't even the same ball park as negative reinforcement.
 

Shyyhs

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What the hell is wrong with the people on this site? I'm looking for help and all I get is semantics. It must be nice to sum everything up with incredible vague ideals such as "grab your balls". The greatest of that sentiment is that you never even take the time to read the posts.

Sifting through the crap posts on this site is incredibly tiring and unmotivating.
 

Señor Fingers

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Some questions for you:

You mentioned that you have a habit of placing people in a hierarchy (something we all do subconsciously)

Where do you see yourself in that great pile of status? And why?
 

izza

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Kaim Argonar said:
You sure that posters like him should do that and refrain from the experiences that are hurtful? In these cases, quite simply, even if you do your best, every kind of attempt results in disappointment and negative stimuli. Everything appears unpractical and nothing works.

Perhaps the answer lies in persisting still, and hoping to get lucky.
I am a big fan of persistence. I just simply believe that the entire dating process should be something you want to do, from beginning to end, including the exercises. I see too many people who approach for sex. They're pursuing long term goals, but they're never going to master that moment, that approach, until they approach for approaching.

I think you have a really good point that people need to at least try these exercises. Some people will say oh that's lame and it might turn out that they really like them. But I think if a person has tried them a few times and it's not something they WANT to keep doing, they need to follow their heart.

Learning to have a good conversation and to be great is all about following your heart. I think people need to do that from the beginning.

If one exercise doesn't work, look for one that actually sounds fun and attainable.

I don't think we disagree though.

Izza
 

izza

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Shyyhs said:
Yeah I like your take on this. It's true.

I think I have this judging issue. I'll try my best to describe it. I think I'm constantly judging people and attaching them to a hierarchy scale. I'm sort of ranking everyone. And it's not necessarily looks, I do it for both male and female. So if I see someone that I think is higher on the scale than me, I feel awkward around them. If they're below me, and very below it becomes easier. Like I could go up to a bunch of 10 year old kids and there would be no problem. Why because they're kids, and they rank very low.
One truth that's easy to grasp rationally but hard to swallow emotionally is that we're all equal, we're all human, and we're all doing out best.

I don't think many people will disagree if I say that eliminating your judgment against others - be it a judgment that people are better or worse than you, will bring you closer to humanity around you. And will obviously help you connect with women.

I think I have an issue with exposing myself, mentally.
As an artist, I know. Exposing yourself is just simply difficult.

Like I have a real problem with pick up lines and all the crap associated here, like opinion openers and cubes and crap like that. I don't want a womans opinion unless I want her opinion.
I feel the same way. I also hate asking for directions when I don't need them. I think it's better to practice being upfront about what we want - a conversation - and it has better results. I just talk about sh!t around me and it's pretty easy.

That's why I've always been drawn toward the Juggler Method. And with reading JM, I rarely ever share myself. I never share my thoughts and who I am, and that leads to not relating with people.

I think that's the deep down issue I have and it's exposing myself, the real me.

I rarely ever speak in the "I" perspective.
Learn this with friends and family. If you don't know how to be yourself around the people who are supposed to support you, I don't think dating will be a pleasant experience for you. Dating can be rough unless you can be yourself and find support from those around you.

You know you'll see some people go up to a stranger, say a sentence and the stranger reciprocates and BOOM they're in a conversation. When I try this, people don't reciprocate.
Just more proof - those ladies can't recognize quality when they see it! :D

Quite honestly, you may need to be more of a b!tch with them. JM says the best way to keep attention is to scare people just a little tiny bit. When people don't give me signs that they're paying attention, I've definitely been known to say stuff like "Helloooo." Then I'll do an impression of her not paying attention, make some sort of joke. People have to know you hold them to HIGH EXPECTATIONS.

I'm trying to push the conservation along, but the other people just don't want to actually contribute. And I'm standing there with these awkward long moments of silence.
Never force conversations. When it drags to a lull, honestly, I just leave. It's ok. If she were completely your type for that moment, there would never have been any problem with the conversation. Also, keep in mind that silence isn't bad. You want to use silence to get her to talk. Learn to be its friend, or else you'll never use it properly. Silence also builds the sexual tension.

I'm 24. I've graduated from University a few years ago. And I just sick and tired of this crap. To be honest, that's my story. And no, my goals are not get a girlfriend. I just want to live a better life. I want to enjoy myself more. If I go out to a bar, I don't want to be the guy that just stands at the side with his drink, talking to his guy friends, really not having any fun.
I'm just saying, when I go to a bar with my guy friends, we don't need women. That's the kind of friends you should make. In fact, when I go to a bar, it's too friggin loud and I can't hear my friends and they can't hear me. We leave. My friends are amazing, I love them to pieces.

But I hear you that you're frustrated with your own abilities. Let me tell you one thing though, Senor Fingers is no fool and that guy has a lot of great ideas. You should check out his posts, they are different than a lot of the drudge you'll find around here.

Izza
 

Shyyhs

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Where do you see yourself in that great pile of status? And why?
Well, where I see myself,,, hmmm, not very high. Like if I see a group of nerds I could have a friendly convo because I would feel above them, but if I perceive someone above that, it would be awkward.

Why? I really don't know. It's just something I do.

I don't think many people will disagree if I say that eliminating your judgment against others - be it a judgment that people are better or worse than you, will bring you closer to humanity around you. And will obviously help you connect with women.
I agree totally. It's just knocking down this barrier that I don't know what to do.

Learn this with friends and family. If you don't know how to be yourself around the people who are supposed to support you, I don't think dating will be a pleasant experience for you. Dating can be rough unless you can be yourself and find support from those around you.
I think it comes back down to the judging part. My friends have already accepted me. They know who I am and they accept me for that so the hierarchy scale disappears, but let's say I was to go out with a group of my friend's friends, the hierarchy would return.

Quite honestly, you may need to be more of a b!tch with them. JM says the best way to keep attention is to scare people just a little tiny bit. When people don't give me signs that they're paying attention, I've definitely been known to say stuff like "Helloooo." Then I'll do an impression of her not paying attention, make some sort of joke. People have to know you hold them to HIGH EXPECTATIONS.
I might have to give that a try. I know juggler recommends the vacum, where you just don't say anything and create that awkward silence(that I hate), and sort of hold the body language that I expect their reply.

But I hear you that you're frustrated with your own abilities. Let me tell you one thing though, Senor Fingers is no fool and that guy has a lot of great ideas. You should check out his posts, they are different than a lot of the drudge you'll find around here.
I wasn't trying to disrespect him, but "grab your balls" seems to be an overly vague PUA cliche.

Thanks for your input.
 

Señor Fingers

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Shyyhs said:
"grab your balls" seems to be an overly vague PUA cliche.
You know I used to feel the same way. You hear things enough times and they lose their power. But allow me to elaborate a bit, since you seem pretty open to learning something different. I'm going to pick apart your game a bit and show you that balls are your missing ingredient.

Actually, that does sound a bit offensive and cliche.. from now on lets call it "backbone"

When it comes to a stranger, for which I don't have what I'd call a purpose, I have a difficult time with.
This tells me you are afraid of several things

• Your own intentions
• What people will think
• Potential rejection

Right now there is nothing clear in your head.. you are freezing up on approaches because you havent learned that everyone is just like you.. talking for a purpose, to their bosses, clients and tons of people they dont even want to be dealing with.

They key to opening people is putting purpose in its place. You don't need to make any profound comments, funny jokes or sing/dance for them. In a world of forced conversations and business talk, sometimes its nice to just shoot the breeze.

Talk about anything on your mind, things that strike you about the environment you share with people. My best openers have always been situational, which requires an observant eye and an attitude that says "I feel like talking about this and sharing a moment with someone"

You know you'll see some people go up to a stranger, say a sentence and the stranger reciprocates and BOOM they're in a conversation. When I try this, people don't reciprocate. I'm trying to push the conservation along, but the other people just don't want to actually contribute. And I'm standing there with these awkward long moments of silence.
Perhaps you are not really tuning into something they can relate to. It's hard to say without you providing concrete examples, but it sounds to me like your biggest problem is feeling comfortable enough in your own skin to really vibe with people.

One mentality that has worked particularly well for me is treating the world like my living room. Put yourself in the relaxed state you find yourself when you arrive at home... you know that deep breath you take when you have finally arrived and taken off your coat?

Imagine that you are right there and a your roommate's friend (who you've never met) happens to be sitting on your sofa... do you feel nervous talking to him, or try to come up with topics in your head? Of course not.. it naturally happens because you are in your domain. The trick is to extend your domain beyond your front door.

The guy who opens people with one sentence understands how to treat strangers as if he already knows them.

This is easier said than done, and once again requires backbone because there are a lot of social barriers out there and it's a leap of perception to transform the bus stop into your living room.

I think that's the deep down issue I have and it's exposing myself, the real me.
Once again this is irrational fear talking. You project your insecurities on people and walk into interactions expecting judgement. With this kind of heavy energy about you, it really doesn't matter what you say.. a crash and burn is inevitable.

This means you have a lot of work to do. You are not proud of the man you are for some reason and you need to explore why that is. Are you living the life you want to be living, or at least on the path you'd always imagined?

What is it you expect from yourself.. what do you want out of life.. do you have the courage to achieve it? Where is that strong personal center you call your backbone?
 

Shyyhs

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This tells me you are afraid of several things

• Your own intentions
• What people will think
• Potential rejection

Right now there is nothing clear in your head.. you are freezing up on approaches because you havent learned that everyone is just like you.. talking for a purpose, to their bosses, clients and tons of people they dont even want to be dealing with.
Yeah, that all sums it up. It's just getting past it. I can logically put this in my brain, but my emotional side doesn't compute. I can enter a conversation and logically say, "don't be nervous", "they're not judging", "who cares", but the emotional side still dominates.

Perhaps you are not really tuning into something they can relate to. It's hard to say without you providing concrete examples, but it sounds to me like your biggest problem is feeling comfortable enough in your own skin to really vibe with people.
Probably. A lot of people will take the first step with me, and I just can't reciprocate. I guess I'm not thinking on me feet and all I can say is "ya" back. I was paying my electrical bill the other day and the lady(old lady) said something cause she was reading it wrong. Like something funny. All I could say was "ya" and that pretty much ends that.

One mentality that has worked particularly well for me is treating the world like my living room. Put yourself in the relaxed state you find yourself when you arrive at home... you know that deep breath you take when you have finally arrived and taken off your coat?

Imagine that you are right there and a your roommate's friend (who you've never met) happens to be sitting on your sofa... do you feel nervous talking to him, or try to come up with topics in your head? Of course not.. it naturally happens because you are in your domain. The trick is to extend your domain beyond your front door.
That wouldn't work for me. I'd still feel the same way. It's not really a property thing of where I am, it's a new person.

Are you living the life you want to be living, or at least on the path you'd always imagined?
No.

What is it you expect from yourself.
A lot more. I'm not sure what the Hell is holding me back. Or why I have it. I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur. My dad was one. I like the idea of working for myself, but when I was growing up, I was taught to goto school. Everything was school school school. I ended up going to university and getting a degree in something based completely on the fact that was I good at the particular courses. It wasn't that I want to be that, it's more, I was expected to goto school and I had no idea what I wanted to do.

When it comes to starting my own business, I'm stuck with this social barrier. You have to deal with customers. You have to sell to customers and it's difficult when you're socially inept and nervous as hell all the time.

do you have the courage to achieve it?
I have the courage to achieve it. It's just the social aspects are universal with just about everything. Interacting with people plays a roll everywhere. And this is where I'm stumbling, and I have no idea how to fix it. If I continue with this approaching stuff, I'm going to end up with an ulcer.

Thanks for your reply.
 

Señor Fingers

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Its refreshing to see someone so honest with themselves. There is more hope for you than a lot of dudes on this board.

The first thing you need to do is stop pressuring yourself. Interacting with people is supposed to be a fun experience, not a chore. You can do a million approaches, but if your state of mind is not right, then it will actually hurt more than harm you.

As for your lack of initiative, control of your emotions and overall anxiety. I highly recommend you check out these two posts.

The Missing Ingredient by guru1000

Destroying Social Phobias by yours truly

More food for thought.. I want you to think about your relationships with family and friends. How deeply and how often do you connect with them?

Also, think about how much time you spend alone and what you do with that time.
 
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