The Difference Between Using a "Neg Hit" and REALLY Negging

SexPDX

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Neg theory and neg "hits" continue to be a widely discussed topic on our forum. Although Sir_Chancealot's Definitive Neg-Hit Post appears to have cleared up the confusion about what is or is not a neg "hit" a least a little, the topic of neg theory and what negging actually is has gone largely (if not completely) undiscussed.

When someone tells us "I used a neg hit on her" what we should then ask is "did you ACTUALLY NEG HER or did you just use a neg hit?" The reason for this question's importance is that using a neg "hit" is not guaranteed to have a neg effect. Let me describe the intended neg effect...

After a remark made by you delivered in the context of a casual conversation where your intent either appeared to make an innocent observation about her or was ambigous with the possibility for it to be interpreted to imply a flaw on her part she becomes self-concious about something that SHE percieves to be a flaw in her. Her self conciousness is just enough for her to subconciously re-evaluate her defensiveness towards you but not so intense that she is either genuinely offended by the remark or she tosses you off as a pathetic choad making frivolous and petty struggle to demonstrate a lack of intimidation of her. Your continued positive conversation with her convinces her that your intent was not to insult or poke fun.

For an example, check out my post on Negging to Disarm.

Negging is NOT something to do after you are already in an interaction with her where you are already positively talking to her in a free flowing conversation. It is something used to induce positive conversation from a position where it either has not happened due to a b*tch shield or her positive conversation with you up until that point is by some external obligation (she is at work for example) and you get a vibe from her that she would be b*tch shielding you otherwise.

Negging (neg hit) is NOT something to be done in reaction to a rejection before you walk off with your tail between your legs as others have wrongfully asserted from time to time. By this you do not impress the woman, nor do you inspire any desire on her part to interact with you any further. In fact such an act most likely cause her to pitty you and think of you as an AFC protecting his ego.

Some newer guys like to use neg hits in such a way that the focus is on how it makes THEM FEEL to have said it rather than how it makes THE WOMAN feel that it was said to her. Keep track of the difference. This is not to say that there is no value to saying negative things to a woman for the purposes of practicing not caring what she or others may think (as in the "prick for a day" exercise) but do not make the mistake of thinking that you are "negging" her by doing this.

Just because a comment was made that could be considered a neg hit does NOT mean that the woman was actually negged.

Nick

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- The seductionist formerly known as trickynick

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~"Pon atencion al latido de tu corazon...y el ritmo de tu respiracion...como te permites llegar a ser completamente llevada...por la conexion que esta tomando lugar." ~




[This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 07-04-2002).]
 

Inspector Clouseau

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How about the social neg hit? When a primary HB target sees you go for a lesser attractive target over her. It certainly takes a neg to her ego, but would you consider that a neg hit per se? I certainly do, and it certainly works, but I want to know your opinion on the matter.


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SexPDX

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Originally posted by Inspector Clouseau:
How about the social neg hit? When a primary HB target sees you go for a lesser attractive target over her. It certainly takes a neg to her ego, but would you consider that a neg hit per se? I certainly do, and it certainly works, but I want to know your opinion on the matter.


Clouseau
Inspector,

I am glad you brought this up. What you suggest is a way of inducing a neg effect without the need to focus on her directly. Just for clarity, when I say "neg hit" I am referring to an utterance or an act that COULD result in a "neg" effect. "Neg hit" focusing on the action, "neg" focusing on the effect we hope to achieve. By this way of thinking your suggestion of focusing on a less attractive target in such a way that it comes to her attention most certainly IS a neg hit, but same application issues I have already mentioned need to be considered in order to decide if the desired effect is happening or not.

Since I usually like to point it out when I am not speaking from personal experience, I will say that I have not used the technique you are talking about with the intent of achieving a neg (although I have done what you describe). What I will ask you, Inspector, is in what way and in what situations are you able to apply this technique so that you KNOW it is affecting your target the way you intended? Also what feedback is required for you to tell you were successful? Has it ever not gone as planned in some way?

Nick

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- The seductionist formerly known as trickynick

You either own the game or it owns you.

~"Pon atencion al latido de tu corazon...y el ritmo de tu respiracion...como te permites llegar a ser completamente llevada...por la conexion que esta tomando lugar." ~

[This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 07-03-2002).]
 

Jake Steed

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Nice clear definition of the neg hit. I like it.

I look forward to IC's examples. Until then I will give two examples of where I've done something similar to IC's "social neg hit", which I think semantically is really just social proof.

Example 1: I was at a big dance club. (Banana Joes, SexPDX) I had earlier fell victim to a blonde "dance troll" as SexPDX defines it--a player girl who entices as many guys to dance with her as she can, but turns away and disses them when they approach--and noticed this same dance troll making her rounds with her friends. She hadn't seen me yet but was going to walk right by me. I asked my buddy if I could borrow his cute blonde gf, and started dancing really awesome swing with her. A few seconds later I felt a tug at my arm and of course it was the dance troll--magically all humble and trying to say "Hi!" to me. I gave her a really nice, friendly smile, but dismissed her to finish dancing with my friends gf.

I know it broke her down and I probably could have talked to her, but I didn't follow up since I knew she was a player and a waste of time--there was no way she was going to fvck me--and I pursued other better prospects and ended up getting a number and date from one of them.

The only difference in this case is my friend's gf was actually prettier than the dance troll.

Example 2: At a house party. I met this HB and opened with a convo on music. We danced salsa for a bit. She was friendly, but I couldn't read her true IL, because she was kind of guarded. After dancing, I made a point of making my rounds and socializing with everyone at the party. Eventually, some girl who was less attractive than my target girl started hanging on me and flirting with me a lot in front of my target. At the end of the night I got my target's email and I ended up getting her naked on our 3rd date. I've been dating her for 10 months since.

She talks a lot about that night and her observations. She found it very attractive that I didn't seem to be "looking" and was socializing with everyone. She said several girls were checking me out (including her) and when the less attractive social proof girl started hanging on me, she was jealous and angry at the girl.

Jake
 

Men frequently err by talking too much. They often monopolize conversations, droning on and on about topics that bore women to tears. They think they're impressing the women when, in reality, they're depressing the women.

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SexPDX

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Good examples, Jake. I realize I am bringing my own thread a little bit off topic by doing this but your mention of Banana Joe's has me thinking a few things. What has your success there really been like? I have seriously sargred there 5 times now and it's only yielded 3 #closes and no extractions.

The closest I came to extracting was with a girl who I did some good work with on the dance floor (actually managed to talk a little) then took her to the upper level where I basically hit her with "I am leaving now, you can come along if you like" after about 5 more minutes of talking. She gave me the excuse of not wanting to go all the way to Aloha from downtown. I took that feedback as, she was interested but I had not done enough work yet. I really was ready to go anyway so I did. In retrospect I probably should have said, "come on, don't you want to fvck" while kinoing her but I guess I had not read enough gunwitch at that time to internalize that approach. LOL!

When you get your ass back up here we are going to wing there together. Between now and then I am figuring out exactly what it takes to extract there. My wings and I have lost already our biggest asset for extraction (the downtown penthouse) but we can work around that. My theory on success at that club and others like it (focused on attention whoring and dance trolling, with lots of dance platforms for chicks) is that it won't happen unless you either have social proof right out of the chute or you are EXTREMELY disarming in your group opener routines, enough such that you are able to MANUFACTURE social proof on the fly with several groups.

I will be experimenting and I WILL figure it out or if not down pat, at least close by September. Help me out by going over to OUR board and replying to my post about Juggler-influenced opener structure.

Thanks,

Nick

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You either own the game or it owns you.

~"Pon atencion al latido de tu corazon...y el ritmo de tu respiracion...como te permites llegar a ser completamente llevada...por la conexion que esta tomando lugar." ~
 

Inspector Clouseau

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I must say I don't have extensive experience, because it's not often the need arises for me to consciously social neg hit.

You know when social negging just may be affecting when your primary tries to steal your attention away from the secondary, or when your secondary leaves, your primary engages. There have been times (although when I was UNintentionally negging) when women have told me "You never talk to me". In execution, I don't think intentional social negging is that much different from when you deprive attention from women you are uninterested in.
Has it ever not gone as planned in some way?
Yes. Once I was doing it on two cookie store chicks and while they both positively responded in the predicted manner, over a course of time, the primary was deemed too inaccessible (always baking cookies), and I aborted the operation. I did first show interest in the primary, but then switched to the secondary; if I had stuck all the attention to the secondary, the primary might've never cared; it's true that we humans don't fully value what we have until after we lose it. This is the one aspect I currently know of where social negging is different from unintentional applications.


Clouseau
 

Master of the Universe

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Nick,

That was a great explanation, especially...

"Some newer guys like to use neg hits in such a way that the focus is on how it makes THEM FEEL to have said it rather than how it makes THE WOMAN feel that it was said to her. Keep track of the difference."

Again, wonderful explanation.

As for the side conversation about social neg-hits, I recently put it to effective use.

There was this chick who constantly had guys flocking around her, virtually all of them better looking than me. The day before, I engaged her in conversation, and while it went well, I could tell that it wasn't enough to separate me from my competitors.

So the next day, as she was hanging around with one of her admirers, I approach a girl about five feet away from her, and get the girl laughing like crazy and having a good time. After five minutes, the girl leaves to get a soda. At that point, my primary target approaches me and says, "I've been looking at you for the last three minute, and you've completely ignored me!" I replied, "I'm sorry, I didn't even notice you standing there. I'll make it up to you, let's dance."

Her attitude definitely changed at that point. She pretty much ignored the other guys, while focusing all her attention on me.

However, in another instance, when I tried this with a different chick, it failed. I realized after the fact, that that particular target was too insecure for this type of social neg, and instead saw me as an unattainable player.

Master of the Univer

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"He was better. But he thought I was finished, with only one arm. He never understood. You surrender after you’re dead." - Lan Mandragoran
 

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