The desire to cuddle, and other AFC-like urges; natural or unhealthy?

[abcd_z]

It's all about something I've had to become very familiar with in the past two months: frame control.

An NLP term, your frame is your personal interpretation of reality. In the context of dating, it refers to the underlying meaning of your social interactions.

Now, if you come at all of this from the frame of somehow needing her for validation, then you've seriously weakened your own position and made yourself less attractive as a result.

If, on the other hand, you have a frame that is congruent with someone who gets lots of women, then you will be attractive to women.

This means things like doing things on your terms because you want to.
Being unreactive to whatever crap she throws at you.
Being firmly entrenched in your own reality, as opposed to trying to live up to her expectations.

Unfortunately, the verbal aspects of how you deal with women are counterproductive to this frame. You should always let her come to you for emotional confirmation, not the other way around.

As for the physical aspects, you've got a bit more luck there.

When women have sex, it releases chemicals in the body that promote bonding. This means cuddling, kissing, fondling, whatever. If you have sex with her before you cuddle, then you're entrenched in her mind as a sexual person, and you can have sex and cuddle whenever you want.

If, on the other hand, you don't make a move, then you'll have a harder time (but not impossible) to get her to bond with you. And when (if) you do, you'll be seen as a lesser man, you'll probably be able to cuddle, but her attraction for you will be low at first and very difficult to increase later on.

Personally, I would suggest going out and making quite a few approaches. Keep a journal and try to talk to at least 10 attractive woman a week for a month. It will take a lot of time and effort to get good at this, but if you want a strong frame, there's no other way.

Good luck.

 

[The Juan and only]

Now, if you come at all of this from the frame of somehow needing her for validation, then you've seriously weakened your own position and made yourself less attractive as a result.

If, on the other hand, you have a frame that is congruent with someone who gets lots of women, then you will be attractive to women.

I agree with this 100%, and I think it's the primary reason for much of the confusion in the community. Valid advice given by one person can be horribly misused by another -- where the underlying frame is not recreated. I guess it's almost a case of "anything will work if you believe it will".

 

[lookyoung]

Okay, as I've said in an earlier thread I'm nearly 34 and never had a gf and am a virgin. So I can't draw from experience here, except that women I seemed to have a chance with in the past, seemed to pull back when I started to talk to her about my feelings for her, and my desire to have her as a gf.

My question is this: all the things that AFCs want to do with their gf's or would-be gf's...snuggle, talk baby talk to each other, hold hands, talk about each other's feelings, tell each other I love you a million times a day, shower her with gifts, compliments, attention, spoil her in general...are these NATURAL and NORMAL urges for a guy to have when he has romantic feelings for a woman, but urges that must be denied because women inconveniently don't find these behaviors attractive, manly, etc?

Or are these urges that a mature male who has developed properly emotionally, socially etc, would never have? In other words are they urges we should not have in the first place?

Whenever I have read the kinds of things I have read at SoSuave about how to be successful with women, I have always thought "so to have the woman/women I desire, I can't enjoy having her/them? I have to hold back and not do the things I really want to do with her? What's the point of being with a woman when I can't enjoy it?"

And secondly, if AFC-like urges ARE unnatural and unhealthy rather than only being inconvenient, why do some men grow up to be AFC's and other men grow up to be the opposite? I assume this second question has been asked a gazillion times on this board already, so if instead of answering it you guys would rather just refer me to threads that do answer it, that would be equally appreciated. Thanks.

The question you asked us makes no fvcking sense. Your a 34 year old virgin and your asking a relationship question? First thing is first. Lose your v-card. I don't care if you have to pay for it just lose it. You have to crawl before you can walk. Then think about what is AFC and what isn't. Here is a guy who has been here for a year, is 34 years old, and is asking what is AFC and what is not.

AFC is when your 34 years old and a virgin. Pop a pu$$y and quit asking silly questions.

Man I tell you the people on this forum get more ridiculous everyday.

 

[sca_p]

My girl and I have been together for three years and have never had sex. While I can't relate to the sex talk going on here, I'll shameless admit to you guys that I love kissing and cuddling and have a few pet names for my girl. I'll gladly take my girl's hand in public and steal a kiss from her. There's nothing wrong with being affectionate towards someone you love--that's one of the best parts of the relationship. The urge to kiss and cuddle is NOT unmanly. It's a natural response to feeling close to someone romantically.

I'm sure that some of you might think my behavior is AFC, but let me say this: my girl and I have been together for three years. She has spent that entire time gaining my trust and winning my affection, and after all that I feel comfortable enough to let my guard down around her and let her see my more vulnerable side. I kiss her when she doesn't expect it, I tease her, and I only say "I love you" once or twice a week because I don't want it to become overused and lose meaning.

So, to the OP: women ARE attracted to these gestures as long as they feel they have EARNED access to your vulnerability and as long as your actions never become boring. Telling your gf that you love her 20 times a day will lose meaning to her--that is AFC; telling her that you love her a few times a week (and randomly) will make her feel as though she has truly earned it, the word will remain special to her, and consequentially she'll continue to try to earn it. Kissing your gf in public many times per day every single time she initiates is AFC; turning your head a few times to avoid the kiss (ignoring her), and then kissing her when she least expects it makes her feel like she has earned the kiss and has more meaning.

You see the difference?

 

[Halloween31]

Okay, as I've said in an earlier thread I'm nearly 34 and never had a gf and am a virgin. So I can't draw from experience here, except that women I seemed to have a chance with in the past, seemed to pull back when I started to talk to her about my feelings for her, and my desire to have her as a gf.

My question is this: all the things that AFCs want to do with their gf's or would-be gf's...snuggle, talk baby talk to each other, hold hands, talk about each other's feelings, tell each other I love you a million times a day, shower her with gifts, compliments, attention, spoil her in general...are these NATURAL and NORMAL urges for a guy to have when he has romantic feelings for a woman, but urges that must be denied because women inconveniently don't find these behaviors attractive, manly, etc?

Or are these urges that a mature male who has developed properly emotionally, socially etc, would never have? In other words are they urges we should not have in the first place?

Whenever I have read the kinds of things I have read at SoSuave about how to be successful with women, I have always thought "so to have the woman/women I desire, I can't enjoy having her/them? I have to hold back and not do the things I really want to do with her? What's the point of being with a woman when I can't enjoy it?"

And secondly, if AFC-like urges ARE unnatural and unhealthy rather than only being inconvenient, why do some men grow up to be AFC's and other men grow up to be the opposite? I assume this second question has been asked a gazillion times on this board already, so if instead of answering it you guys would rather just refer me to threads that do answer it, that would be equally appreciated. Thanks.

I cant say much that probably hasnt been said other than if i were you, i would just take more initiative. Be more assertive, and while i may be wrong, you do not seem like the assertive and self-assured type. Dont worry though, those things can be gained

 

[FatHairyM4F]

The question you asked us makes no fvcking sense. Your a 34 year old virgin and your asking a relationship question? First thing is first. Lose your v-card. I don't care if you have to pay for it just lose it. You have to crawl before you can walk. Then think about what is AFC and what isn't. Here is a guy who has been here for a year, is 34 years old, and is asking what is AFC and what is not.

AFC is when your 34 years old and a virgin. Pop a pu$$y and quit asking silly questions.

Man I tell you the people on this forum get more ridiculous everyday.

Yeah I know what you're saying, but when it comes to females my whole life I've been more interested in getting a gf than just getting laid. It was more important to me to be able to say I had a gf and be seen with a pretty gf, and have her hang all over me and make me feel attractive, important, etc. And yeah I know it was doomed to failure from the get-go because I think girls could sense my desperation neediness and complete lack of confidence a mile away.

And when I would start getting to know a girl at work or whatever, and even start flirting with each other, I'd think well here's my chance to have a gf and immediately started telling her about my feelings for her. And of course I had feelings for her because when I first started to sense that I might have a chance with her, I would start constantly building her up in my mind, daydreaming all the time about what it would be like to lay in bed and talk and cuddle with her. Then when I told her about my feelings, of course it all went down the drain.

So for the most part I've just completely given up trying to meet women at all, because I've been like "well I want to cuddle and hold hands and talk baby talk to each other (and of course ALWAYS be the center of her attention), and women don't seem to want a guy with my needs, so what's the use?"

And I'm still trying to decide whether I even care enough to want to try again.