The Complete Product Review Thread

Master of the Universe

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Fellow DJs,

Since the beginning of this year, I have been very seriously studying seduction. In addition to spending hundreds of hours out in the field experimenting and trying new stuff, I've also purchased and went through a very large number of books and programs on the subject.

So, I thought that I would include a list of some of these books and programs, and provide a little overview, so that you can see if they may also be appropriate for you. Enjoy, and let me know your feedback...


Advanced Macking by Anthony Berger ($39.95 www.advancedmacking.com )

The main thrust of this book is to get you ONS from clubs and bars. This isn't really my type of deal, but in my humble opinion, even in that aspect it was too simplistic.

For example, according to the book, 20% of the girls in a bar are looking for a ONS, so your goal is to get one of those girls, since it would be virtually impossible to get the other 80%. I'm not really sure what to make of this, as it doesn't fit with my personal DJ beliefs, among them being that any girl I am interested in, I can get if my skills are strong enough.

Another thing that I thought really funny was when he discusses many different ways to trick girls into coming over to your place. I mean, come on, the chick would have to be a total air head not to realize your intentions. In my opinion, the reason you would tell a girl something like, "let's go back to my place for a drink" is just to help the girl feel less of a slut, and give her a self-justification for going to your place (even though she knows its about sex - she wants sex, but just wants a guy with some class to go home with).

One good thing about the book though, is his ideas on sexual kino, such as the boob touch, spin-and-kiss, and leg touch. So for me, that was worth the investment because I learned something new.

However, overall, there are WAY more useful material in the DJ Bible if you're looking for anything other than an ONS (even though a couple of the subjects in the Bible get into ONS).

Still, the LayGuide and the other material on the FastSeduction site are more advanced for ONS, and they're FREE!

So after all is said and done, I found it to be pretty simple and too limiting. **/5


Advanced Speed Seduction by Ross Jeffries (???)

This is an eight volume audio program recording from an Advanced Speed Seduction seminar. I'm not sure if Ross Jeffries is even selling this particular program any longer, as I couldn't find it on his web site. However, this is the easiest of his programs to find on any peer-to-peer search engine.

For those not familiar with Speed Seduction, it is basically a derivative of NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming), which utilizes "patterns" and other conversational constructs to seduce a woman. I've found this to be a very powerful seduction tool, but it takes a TON of practice. Also, I've found that it works best with women who are intelligent and have a good imagination. The "patterns" only bore less intelligent women or those who have had a little too much to drink.

This program is a great way to learn the basics of Speed Seduction. ***/5


Art of Seduction by Robert Greene ($18.17 www.amazon.com )

All I'm going to say about this book is - WOW! My copy has dog-ears on top of dog-ears, and it look's like I'll have to purchase a new one soon.

Whereas most of the seduction and pickup material is geared to utilizing specific lines or techniques, Art of Seduction is more of the framework for a seduction. The author has distilled the seduction strategies of many of history's greatest seducers, and offered it into a multi-chapter book.

The purpose of this book is to seduce someone in the true sense of the word... Not just to get them to bed ASAP, but to get the target to completely surrender and fall in love with you. You would not use this framework on someone you met in a bar, as it takes a larger investment in your time and effort to seduce someone to that point. However, these are the heavy-duty tools to pull out on a major seduction campaign.

Also, instead of focusing on specific techniques for implementing the strategies, the author has outlined several different seduction styles, including: The Siren (female), The Rake (male), The Charmer, The Ideal Lover, The Star, the Charismatic, the Natural, the Dandy, and a few other archetypes. The intention being that instead of using techniques that may feel foreign to you, you can learn which of these different styles is most appropriate for your own personality, and work on honing those styles even more greatly.

If nothing more, the historical stories on the world's greatest seducers make this book a must-read *****/5


Art of Seduction Audio Format by Robert Greene ($18.87 www.amazon.com )

Even though I had already went through the book, I decided to give the audio program a shot also. I must say... I was happily surprised to find that I learned a lot from the audio program.

For one thing, all three hundred and some pages has been condensed very nicely into the five hours, plus the material has been changed slightly to make it more digestable.

While I miss all the stories of the different seducers, I found that this audio program is golden. ***/5


Bishop's Journal by The Bishop (???)

This manual details many of The Bishop's seductions, along with incorporating many new Speed Seduction patterns, stories, and poems.

The thing though, is that apparently a few years ago, it came out that The Bishop is a fake. While I don't know the complete story, I do know that I have used several of his ideas, with success.

This program is no longer sold, as far as I can tell anyway. So you'll have to find it on one of the peer-to-peer systems. ***/5


The DJ Bible by SoSuave.com (FREE www.sosuave.com )

Holy guacamole! If you haven't read the DJ Bible yet, then what the hell are you doing reading this post???

This is the most important step you can take in becoming the DJ you desire. As just about everyone reading this post has already read the Bible, I won't mention it further. *****/5


Double Your Dating by David DeAngelo ($39.95 www.doubleyourdating.com )

The master of the ****y & Funny technique. While David by no means invented the usage of ****y & funny as a seduction technique, he was the one that made it popular, and possibly coined the term.

I've found the book to be very informative, and definitely worth the investment. However, I think that the regular e-mails which David sends out to be of even higher caliber than the manual itself.

Anyway, if you haven't used this style to create attraction, then you're missing out! ****/5


Fast Seduction by Form Handle (FREE www.fastseduction.com )

TONS AND TONS of material for picking up and seducing chicks. While a lot of the material deals with getting chicks into bed ASAP, there is plenty of material for seducing chicks in general.

And in addition to the very large collection of pickup material, there is also a Wing-Man registration system, for those looking to hookup with other guys to go chick-hunting together. As well, Fast Seduction is the home of mASF (Moderated Alt.Seduction.Fast), a rather active PU forum.

Between the DJ forum and mASF, you'll have the tools and strategies to acquire just about any girl you desire. *****/5


The Guide: The Essential Resource Book For Picking Up Girls by John Colt and Nicholas Adams ($5.95 www.amazon.com )

This was an interesting little book. While the main premise is picking up chicks for an ONS, I found it useful for picking up chicks in general. However, between most of the other resources available in the DJ Bible and the LayGuide, there's not much new here.

However, there is a complete chapter devoted to properly utilizing wing situations, so that alone was worth the $5.95 price. **/5


How to Make Anyone Fall in Love with You by Leil Lowndes ($10.47 www.amazon.com )

For a book written by a woman, this is damn good! This book is full of strategies and ideas for getting someone to fall in love with you, and to create attraction. While it's written for both men and women, I found it refreshing that she gave separate strategies for the different genders.

I enjoyed the easy to understand ways in which she discussed lean words (SS: trance words), and there is a wonderful chapter dedicated to the fine art of eye contact.

And while a couple of her suggestions are definitely AFCish, for the most part, I thought this was one of the best books on the subject that I have read. ****/5


The LayGuide by Tony and ASF (FREE www.pickupguide.com/layguide )

The LayGuide is the ASF equivalent of the DJ Bible. But while the Bible is more dedicated to being THE MAN and building the necessary foundation to have women dying to be with you, the LayGuide is focused more toward the tactic and strategies for picking up and seducing a chick.

Between these two manuals though, you will be armed to the teeth! *****/5


Kenxtions by Ken Gordon ($49.95 www.kenxtions.com )

This five CD program shows you how to use proven sales techniques to # close girls effectively, as well as ways to get them to return your phone calls and actually meet you for a date.

Since I am in sales and marketing, I was very interested in seeing what Ken had to offer... and I was not disappointed!

Each step of the pickup process is divided into a separate CD, with one dedicated to breaking the ice, and others for the initial conversation, asking for the number, overcoming objections, talking on the phone, getting girls to return phone calls, and more.

Plus, the program even comes with a video where Ken and others members of his organization go out into the field with a hidden camera, initiate conversations with women, and number close. You'll see how they overcome objections and get the numbers.

And the best part about this program, is that it is very easy to use the strategies taught, with a minimal learning curve. ****/5


Life, Letters, and Epicurean Philosophy of Ninon De L'Enclos by Ninon De L'Enclos (FREE http://www.aelliott.com/reading/ninon )

Oh My God!!! What is this world coming to - a woman who actually tells how to seduce a woman, not with the "just be yourself" BS, but with strategies and tactics that are unbelievable!

For those not familiar with Ms. L'Enclos, she is one of history's greatest seducers, with a listing of her targets including some of Europe's most powerful 17th and 18th century men! In fact, men pursued her with a relish until after her eightieth birthday - such was the degree of refinement that she had mastered the art of seduction!

Most of this book is a collection of letters which were written to a young nobleman infatuated with a certain girl. Ninon, through her correspondence, tells him how to seduce the young girl. And we can see where when taking Ninon's advice, the young man acquired the results he was aiming for, but when turning his head to her sound judgment, and using his own messed up ideas (like telling the girl that he loves her), he hits brick walls.

Even though this book is somewhere around 300 years old, it is a MUST READ for all DJs. ****/5


The Machiavellian's Guide to Womanizing by Nick Casanova ($5.99 www.amazon.com )

This book was a total crackup. To be honest, I'm not sure if the author intended it to be an actual seduction book, or a parody, but at $5.99, it's worth a reading just for sheer entertainment.

With different subjects like how to sleep with your best friend's girlfriend, or your girlfriend's best friend, or better yet - a newly widowed woman! **/5


The Pickup Guide by Maniac High and ASF (FREE www.pickupguide.com )

This site is the pickup strategy of Maniac High, a consummate seducer of ASF. You'll find his step-by-step layout of a pickup. It's truly amazing that this guy was able to breakdown his pickup to such a high degree of precision!

Plus, you'll find some of the best posts from the heyday of ASF, and a few pickup games that I've come to really enjoy (my favorite is the Cube and the Roller Coaster). ***/5


Speed Seduction Basic Home Study Course by Ross Jeffries ($225.00 www.speed-seduction.com )

The complete system for learning Speed Seduction. Even though this is the "Basic Home Study Course," I found it much more complete and useful than the Advanced Speed Seduction program.

While most people who have become familiar with Speed Seduction through the LayGuide are familiar with the Patterns aspect of SS, this course brings together many other tools, including how to setup challenges, getting a girl to volunteer her phone number, in-depth discussion of how to use mirroring and matching, and many other strategies.

In addition, one of the most useful features of this program is membership into the SS E-Mail List, where many of the advanced SSers post their results, test new strategies, and provide tips to each other.

Overall, if you're serious about using Speed Seduction as part of your arsenal, then you'll want to consider investing in this program. Of course, the price isn't exactly its best feature. *****/5


Speed Seduction Methods and Masters by Ross Jeffries et al ($75.00 www.speed-seduction.com )

In this audio series, Ross Jeffries and other SS bigwigs discuss their strategies for acquiring chicks. Each expert discusses his field of expertise, including using online services, bedding bisexual girls, and other styles.

I personally found this tape set to be very interesting, as it was enjoyable to see how each SSer has developed his own style for acquiring chicks... all of which works best for him. Also, most of these audio programs are available on most peer-to-peer file sharing systems. ***/5


The Story of My Life by Giovanni Giacomo Casanova ($10.50 www.amazon.com )

Who in the world has not heard of Casanova, the world's most infamous seducer? In this abridged 400 page autobiography (the unabridged autobiography, titled The History of my Life, is somewhere around 2,000-3,000 pages), you'll find out all about Casanova's life, from the man himself!

After reading about his life... all I can say is DAMN!!! In addition to being the consummate seducer, this guy was the ultimate DJ! *****/5


The System by Doc Love ($99 www.doclove.com )

One thing I've got to say about Doc Love, he can cut all the BS out of girl problems better than any other expert I've seen. I look forward to each of each articles, because I always learn something new from him, and more importantly, see girls in a different way than I had before. I tend to overanalyze, so his Bottom Line style is definitely refreshing.

However, I have found that his "system" lacked enough coherence to make it useful as a "system." While I enjoyed the two audio programs that came with the manual, the manual itself did not present any logical plan for implementing any of his suggestions; it was an encyclopedia, with a one page summary of each different topic.

Still, if you're looking for an LTR chick, his ideas are pure gold. ***/5

Well, I hope you found this review useful. Please feel free to post any feedback, and if you've read any of the material above, and wish to add your own critique, go for it. Also, if you've went through any other books and programs, take a few minutes and add your review to this thread.

Master of the Universe

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"I tell you on behalf of women: there is not one of us who does not prefer a little rough handling to too much consideration. Men lose through blundering more hearts than virtue saves. The more timidity a lover shows with us, the more it concerns our pride to goad him on; the more respect he has for our resistance, the more respect we demand of him. We would willingly say to you men, 'Ah, in pity’s name do not suppose us to be so very virtuous; you are forcing us to have too much of it.'" - Ninon de l'Enclos

"If Machiavelli had had a prince for disciple, the first thing he would have recommended him do would have been to write a book against Machiavellism." - Voltaire

"It takes great talent and skill to conceal one's talent and skill." - La Rochefoucauld

[This message has been edited by Master of the Universe (edited 08-24-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Master of the Universe (edited 08-24-2002).]
 

Heavyweight

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Thanks for the post - MOTU - comprehensive and well done. Have you heard of Seven Magic Words or something like that? What do you think?
 

Komodo

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Great post man.It was very informative.I read how to make anyone fall in love with you way back.Thought it was good then I came here and forgot all about it.Hey what about those newsletters that come with advancedmacking you know the ones that teach you how to get into threesomes and so forth are they any good?

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You can't please all of the people all of the time!
 

Reyaj

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Yeah true that, nice job man, I appreciate it. If I may ask, what is your goal as far as don juaning goes? You try to have ONS, or you are searching for the girl of your dreams. In either case, which work would you say is the best out of all of them you reviewed, regardless of price. Thanks man!
 

Bonhomme

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Much Thanks, MOU!

Looks like you sold me on The Art of Seduction, which should help this Dandy Charmer quite a bit.


The only significant omission I noted is the sublime Dating Insider.

Dating Insider ($39.95 US) http://www.dating-insider.com


Dating Insider's main focus is developing the *charisma* to attract women to you, and making the right moves to keep things moving along once you have them swooning over you.

This program condensed a lot of the ideas covered in the DJ Bible into a very tight, well-organized format that covers first things first, and gave me the "Eureka!" reaction by explaining just what was happening on those occasions when I was "on." The improvement in my game was, for all intents and purposes, *instant* and *considerable*.

Bonhomme rating *****/5

[This message has been edited by Bonhomme (edited 08-24-2002).]
 

Sting

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Very nicely done. You've given me a few resources to look into a little more, as well as some I've never heard of previously.

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It could happen to you, just like it happened to me, there is simply no immunity, there's no guarantee...
 

Master of the Universe

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Heavyweight,

The Seven Magic Words was actually the first PU book I read, but that was a long time ago, and I can no longer remember what it's about.

I'll have to read it again, and then I'll provide a review.

Komodo,

The newsletters that are part of Advanced Macking are for the most part a joke. Very few have any useful material.

Jayer,

My personal goal is to find the best LTR situation. Until I get to the point where I find a girl worthy of that title, my secondary goal is to learn as much as possible about seduction... so that when I do find the worthy girl, I will be armed to the teeth and know exactly how to acquire her.

As to which program is the best... that's rather subjective, especially since many of the programs approach seduction in different ways. Overall though, any program rated 4 or 5 stars are great.

Bonhomme,

Hmmm... I haven't read Dating Insider, but with your sterling endorsement, I'll definitely be reading it.


Also, I'm going through another half-dozen programs right now, so once I do go through them, I'll be posting my reviews.

Master of the Universe


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"I tell you on behalf of women: there is not one of us who does not prefer a little rough handling to too much consideration. Men lose through blundering more hearts than virtue saves. The more timidity a lover shows with us, the more it concerns our pride to goad him on; the more respect he has for our resistance, the more respect we demand of him. We would willingly say to you men, 'Ah, in pity’s name do not suppose us to be so very virtuous; you are forcing us to have too much of it.'" - Ninon de l'Enclos

"If Machiavelli had had a prince for disciple, the first thing he would have recommended him do would have been to write a book against Machiavellism." - Voltaire

"It takes great talent and skill to conceal one's talent and skill." - La Rochefoucauld
 

Funkstyle

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wow... nice work man

somebody should sticky this or put it in the Bible for reference

some random comments...

a lot of these systems have contradictory information... even the DJ Bible has contradicting posts. you gotta figure out what works for you and only way to do that is through experience

a lot of the info given in most of these guides are too vague to really be useful. Vague rules that don't elaborate on specific situations or have field reports are pretty much useless to me. Which is why I've come to discover that posts from SexPDX here and the tips forum on ASF are more applicable than a book that rambles on about the psychological implications of eye contact or breaks down charisma into seven elements that I know I won't be able to remember when I'm talking to a girl. Same reason I browsed through the Art of Seduction and put it back on the shelf. Thick ass book full of general rules but how to apply them to real life situations is a mystery to me

Dating Insider ($39.95 US) http://www.dating-insider.com

here's a second opinion about Dating-Insider and this is not to knock on Bonhomme because everybody's different and what works for me might not work for the next man. personally the Dating-Insider approach doesn't do it for me and it seems like the info in there contradicts a lot of the typical seduction material. For example they tell you to not smile, keep a poker face when you're talking to a girl, and when you're in a crowd, look bored and act like none of them are worthy of you're attention. From my experience, you need to smile to break down a girl's barriers. I've found that the initial smile you flash (or choose not to flash) influences how friendly the girl is to you for the rest of the conversation. Also I'm the type of guy who looks mean when I'm just standing there so obviously if I keep a poker-face I'm girls are not gonna wanna talk. And with respect to being a part of a crowd, personally I've found the way to look good (and feel good as well) is to be the center of attention, not the guy who looks like he wishes he wasn't there (you end up looking like a social retard that way). Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth. It's all relative to the person anyway **/5

a couple more

How to Succeed with Women by Louis and Copeland

a lot of guys rave about this book. personally I think it's crap tho the first chapter is gold for newbies (they should have just published the first chapter) but a lot of their tactics are too AFC-ish for me and I swear the field reports they put in the book are made up. Some of their techniques are too bugged out (i.e. they mention going to a club with a hand puppet to attract women <--- haha) and as an example of flirting they mention going into a bank and saying to the teller "thank you oh banking goddess!". Honestly man, unless you're on top of your game, these'll make you look hella lame in real life. **

Nice Guys and Players by Rom Willis

this was the first newbie book I read a year ago when I was trying to understand why my ex-girl burnt me when I'd been good to her for the last 2 1/2 years. Full of vague info and perspectives (he oversimplifies guys by breaking them down into 5 groups)- a nice wake up call but nothing more. The DJ Bible has much more useful newbie information. And the main revelation of this book - that Women choose the Men - is more of an AFC perspective on the game than anything else. **/5

Anyway, all you newbies out there don't think just coz you stumbled on some book that makes you feel good when you read it that you automatically know everything there is to know about women. Learn as much as you can from a variety of sources and figure out what you can internalize and what is nonsense. I'm not saying you should go out and buy every single product on this thread (a lot of them are rip-offs and like I said before, you learn more from specifics and field reports than ambiguous rules). But I see a lot of people discovering the DJ Bible and going "wow!!! is there anything better than sosuave.com??! of course not!!!" and it got me shaking my head

[This message has been edited by Funkstyle (edited 08-24-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Funkstyle (edited 08-24-2002).]
 

Komodo

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One book I think you might be interested in M.O.T.U is Meeting Women 101.I haven't read it but plan to.You can checkout their website at seductionpro.com .So those bonuses were crap.I guess if it sounds to good to be true it is.How did the threesome newsletter go?

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You can't please all of the people all of the time!
 

CLOONEY

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MOTU, you are simply a legend mate, champion!!! I will be sure now to check out that fastseduction site, although I am not really into ONS either!!!!

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Life is a game....PLAY IT!!
 

Bonhomme

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That was not how I read Dating Insider at all, Funkstyle.

There's a definite difference between being *charismatic* and acting *stuck-up*. In fact, in one of the early paragraphs it says to "flaunt a friendly, sincere smile at strategic intervals" -- but not to *overdo* it.

The key is really just to carry yourself like a champion, and not to reveal too much of yourself. Not to look like you wish you're not there, but quite the opposite: to look totally like you're in your element. More like the king in his court than the fly on the wall.

But I agree with the point that different systems work better for different people. I have a lot of trouble with David D'Angelo's system because my humor's not always "on," and for a very long time I've been conditioned against being blatantly sexual with gals I've just met (first from Catholicism, then from all the static about sexual harassment). It's not easy to undo years and years of counterproductive behavior patterns!

Different strokes for different folks. That's why The Art of Seduction is next on my list.



[This message has been edited by Bonhomme (edited 08-26-2002).]
 

Big-J

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"You Don't Get LAID, I Don't Get PAID!
Here's My TRIPLE No-Risk Guarantee

Look: send for your Speed Seduction Home Study Course by clicking here to order directly online...or...

Call my partner, Dr. Yates Canipe in Texas at 903-482-1034
(Yeah, I know, I know, it's a toll call.)

Try out some of the amazing secrets I reveal. If, for some reason, you aren't able to use these secrets to

1. Seduce at least THREE women,

2. Do so quickly and easily, without the usual dating-games

3. Do so with women who are really HOT...the kind you've always wanted

Just send the tapes back, anytime within Ninety Days, and I'll give you....

An Instant Full Refund, No Questions Asked!!"

Hehe I love that quote from the Speed-Seduction site
.

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Big John
 

Master of the Universe

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Funkstyle,

First, thanks for adding your reviews to the thread!

I have to agree with you that much of the material contradicts each other... if you try to implement EVERTHING.

I think you have to experiment around with as many strategies as you can find, and toss out anything which doesn't fit your personal style.

And of course, anything that works... keep using!

Clooney,

Thanks for the kind words dude! Haven't seen you posting in a while, hope everything's been well with you.

Master of the Universe

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"I tell you on behalf of women: there is not one of us who does not prefer a little rough handling to too much consideration. Men lose through blundering more hearts than virtue saves. The more timidity a lover shows with us, the more it concerns our pride to goad him on; the more respect he has for our resistance, the more respect we demand of him. We would willingly say to you men, 'Ah, in pity’s name do not suppose us to be so very virtuous; you are forcing us to have too much of it.'" - Ninon de l'Enclos

"If Machiavelli had had a prince for disciple, the first thing he would have recommended him do would have been to write a book against Machiavellism." - Voltaire

"It takes great talent and skill to conceal one's talent and skill." - La Rochefoucauld
 

Amlothi

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bump

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"There are no such things as mixed signals when it comes to women, there is reality and what the guy wants to be reality." - Don Phenom

Who wants to be a DJ when you can be so much more?
 

B-Boy

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Come on guys......some one here must have read his books.......
 

College_Man

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Oh my GOD. Those Wayne Ross books are horrible. Never read so much bullsh_t in my life. Buying a woman lots of gifts is NOT going to make her like you. Handing out cards to women saying you didn't know what to say to meet them just confirms in writing to the women that you're a pvssy. There are a few good tidbits here and there, but the crap you have to wade through to get ot it makes these books a complete waste of time. Just read the bible. All of the worthy stuff you'd find in those book is in there.
 

Z Man

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I signed up to Dating-Insider, but I paid $49.95!
Oh, well. There is some great stuff on there about "charisma" ,etc...and don't forget their discussion forum
It's similiar to this one.

Also, I own a copy of Leil Lowndes "How to Make Anyone Fall In Love With You". I paid approx. $13, I think for it.

I also recommend "Love Tactics" (I can't remember the author). I've thumbed through (read most of it) at the bookstore.

Good stuff, but I haven't been putting this stuff into practice long enough to have any proven success...yet.


And, of course, SoSuave.com! Lot's of great tips (some contradictory to others) but my "mentality" regarding women has already been changing for the better due to these sources.
I love this Discussion Forum!


Just my thoughts.
 
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