The Blagojevich Hypothesis

darkstarrr

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
415
Reaction score
13
Location
Dancing with the Devil by the pale moonlight.
So I'm watching this guy on Larry King the other day and holy sh1t is he a good speaker. One smooth dude if you ask me. I don't know too much about the whole scandal thing he is wrapped up in, nor do I care really.

What interests me so much about this character is how he seems so non-chalant about the whole thing. For someone who seems to be in such hot water he is doing a great job at framing the whole thing to be minimal. What a spin he is putting on it.

I particularly enjoyed how when Mr. King asked him about how his wife was swearing he chuckled it off saying oh poor her she doesn't talk like that she just hears me talk like that and thats why she said it (as he smiled warmly and smugly). I'd bet my lucky star that someone got dome later that night.

A light bulb went off in my head when I heard him speak, and it got my imagination going about this whole framing thing. How can a guy who fvcked up so bad where the 3-letter word departments are on him and his calls like flies on sh1t, and then get cught red-handed - be able to frame the situation so well as to sway so many people to practically admire him? There's a fund raiser for goodness sake that is handling his legal fees.

And have any of you seen his young wife? Easily an hb8. I coudn't help but imagine how this guy handles her. I mean, I doubt she is an out of control wacko like many of us have encountered in our lives. But for some reason after seeing the interview with Mr. King I imagined his wife getting all upset when the whole thing unfolded and possibly threatening to leave him. From the way he handled the interview I then imagined he must have done a heck of a job calming her nerves.

Say for example she got so upset and stormed out. He seems like the type of dude who didn't run after her sobbing and begging but instead non-chalantly chuckle to himself saying out loud baby you are over-reacting this is just politics and its important not to let it get to you (as he sits down on the coach in his loafers, a robe, and a calm warm smile).

I then imagined his wife getting to the end of the driveway and being so confused at how charasmatic he is. How come he is not having a nervous breakdown or something, after all he is the one in trouble and she is the one upset and running out the door. So she just stands there and feels like a pouty little girl *not fair*, only to turn right around and walk right back in the house like a brat, only to find him sipping hot cocoa on the coach lapping steamed milk off his upper lip. "Want some honey"?

People's minds are weak and very much undefined. We often frame our own realities based on how other people are reacting around us. When my little cousin lost her first baby tooth right in front of the whole family she looked around at everyone's faces almost checking to see how we would react because she didn't quite know how to. When some of us gasped like omg her tooth came out ahhhh she started crying almost 15 seconds later!!! We are men, not women or children. How we frame things can give us so much control over a situation, its amazing.

This hypothesis is merely an application of what I have been learning here. For all you people out there who have lost control, had nervous breakdowns, or maybe even fantasized about suicide...you must remember that your world is very much under your control depending on how you frame it. But you can't expect to implement it after the fact. You must start now and maintain it throughout even the most testing times. If you have a problem with lost testosterone like TRS discussed on one of his posts.. get yourself checked out and do something about it because such a problem can greatly induce an AFC mindset.

Its not as difficult as it seems to maintain your composure throughout. We must remember that while all these situations we are in that make up our little worlds are taking place, as hellish as they may seem at times, all we have to do is not let your emotions get the best of us. Because once you start to lose control of yourself (which often times is a lot sooner than most realize) you begin to poison yourself by giving up your power and taking your first steps down the road of AFC relapse.

An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Can you imagine if Blagojevich had had a pissed off tantrum or nervous breakdown RIGHT when the sh1t hit the fan. The amount of back-pedaling he would be doing right now would be inconceivabe. One false fvcking move and he would have taken that first step. The wife being turned off as she buckled under the stress and became less and less attracted to him each day. The therapy sessions he would have inevitably needed as his world came crashing down around him. Wife gone with the kid. His face painted all over the news as an outcast. A potential identity crisis. But he didn't let that happen did he..

When faced with difficult situations remember to BREATH and THINK about what you are about to do or say or HOW you are going to allow yourself to react, if at all. By maintaining your composure during each and every single step you take, and by staying cool, calm, and collected, you not only maintain the greatest possible control over your environment, but you also maintain your frame, which is the name of the game.
 

azanon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,292
Reaction score
41
darkstarrr said:
What interests me so much about this character is how he seems so non-chalant about the whole thing. For someone who seems to be in such hot water he is doing a great job at framing the whole thing to be minimal. What a spin he is putting on it.
I have to agree, and I think people would do well to watch him and take notes - aspiring DJ's especially.

Perception is at least half of reality, and to be honest I think I'm underestimating that. He perceives he is innocent - genuinely he does - so he's at least half way there.

There's a lot of narcissism there too;.... without much of the typical negative side-effects.
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,871
Reaction score
55
From what I've seen of him, I don't find him very credible or saying anything of substance about the allegations. He seems more like a little kid or a woman denying everything and acting like everyone is picking on him than an authority figure.

If the FBI has the goods on him, and I can't imagine them coming forward without having something on him, then all his denials is just going to encourage them to go after him more vigorously. They might be lay backing and putting together their case. Who knows.

I can sort of see how some people might think he's smooth and be taken in by him. This guy might possibly be a sociopath, and sociopaths appeal to some people but I'm not one of them.

Anyway, he's probably a corrupt politician. His defense defies plausability. Instead of doing the honorable thing and just stepping down, it seems like he thinks he can weasel his way out of it. Well that's my take on him.
 

jophil28

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
5,216
Reaction score
276
Location
Gold Coast. Aust.
ketostix said:
I can sort of see how some people might think he's smooth and be taken in by him. This guy might possibly be a sociopath, and sociopaths appeal to some people but I'm not one of them.

Anyway, he's probably a corrupt politician. His defense defies plausability. Instead of doing the honorable thing and just stepping down, it seems like he thinks he can weasel his way out of it. Well that's my take on him.
WE need to be just as careful whom we admire in men as we do when we choose a woman.

Smooth and confident is one thing, but not having the capacity or the conscience to grasp the impact of one's actions when innocent people have been harmed either physically, financially or emotionally makes a guy (or a woman ) a sick and diseased swindling weasel.

Sounds like Sociopathy plus NPD to me.
 

decades

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
35
Location
sf ca
He is worth our study but not our admiration.
 

darkstarrr

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
415
Reaction score
13
Location
Dancing with the Devil by the pale moonlight.
persistent exaction said:
He is worth our study but not our admiration.
Exactly what I meant.

I don't disagree with you fellas. But I intended for the focus of this to be about maintaining your frame rather than opinions of the dude and what he did or didn't do. If I had meant it any other way I would have posted this in the anything else section.

I see your points about how he could be a strong candidate for socio, etc. For me this way more about being able to extract what I have learned here about framing and apply it to a somewhat random example.

Know what I mean?
 

blueblue

Don Juan
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Location
ky
re: OP

darkstarrr said:
So I'm watching this guy on Larry King the other day and holy sh1t is he a good speaker. One smooth dude if you ask me. I don't know too much about the whole scandal thing he is wrapped up in, nor do I care really.
Hey darkstarrr and any other who may not know or needs to get up to speed:

Let me put it a little succinctly: Illinois politics + Democrat, (oxymoron ) + Well polished speaker = Completely bamboozled, ignorant public..........and it is probably good that you don't really care.
 

darkstarrr

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
415
Reaction score
13
Location
Dancing with the Devil by the pale moonlight.
blueblue said:
Hey darkstarrr and any other who may not know or needs to get up to speed:

Let me put it a little succinctly: Illinois politics + Democrat, (oxymoron ) + Well polished speaker = Completely bamboozled, ignorant public..........and it is probably good that you don't really care.
Thanks for the clarification.

Again I can't stress enough how I was just hypothesizing about how an individual can maintain their frame.

Regardless of who he is and what he did and where he works and what political party he is, I was able to extract something very important that I learned here into something random that I saw in real life. The bottom line is that I understand the importance of framing and in doing so that brings me that much closer to understanding the game.

I hope the controversiality of my example itself doesn't take away from my point.

azanon said:
I have to agree, and I think people would do well to watch him and take notes - aspiring DJ's especially.

Perception is at least half of reality, and to be honest I think I'm underestimating that.
 

slaog

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
1,726
Reaction score
51
Location
an island
I've never heard of that man but you're right, politicans are usually good examples of maintaining frame etc. They have to be because most are liars IMO.


darkstarrr said:
People's minds are weak and very much undefined. We often frame our own realities based on how other people are reacting around us. When my little cousin lost her first baby tooth right in front of the whole family she looked around at everyone's faces almost checking to see how we would react because she didn't quite know how to. When some of us gasped like omg her tooth came out ahhhh she started crying almost 15 seconds later!!! We are men, not women or children. How we frame things can give us so much control over a situation, its amazing.

Yeah chrildren are good examples too. My nephew fell a few years ago when he was 2. All the women were around him and all rushed to pick him up making a big deal out of it. Naturally he was roaring crying. When I was minding him and he fell harder I just said something like "oops" and made a joke of it. He got up and smiled.
 

Mr. Me

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
1,357
Reaction score
84
I'd bet my lucky star that someone got dome later that night.
it got my imagination going about this whole framing thing.
I coudn't help but imagine how this guy handles her.
I imagined his wife getting all upset when the whole thing unfolded
I then imagined he must have done a heck of a job calming her nerves.
Say for example she
He seems like the type
I then imagined his wife
Can you imagine if Blagojevich
You sure imagine a lot, don't you?

People's minds are weak and very much undefined. We often frame our own realities based on how other people are reacting around us. When my little cousin lost her first baby tooth right in front of the whole family she looked around at everyone's faces almost checking to see how we would react because she didn't quite know how to.
That's because she's a toddler and that's how toddlers learn what's socially appropriate. It's not because of minds being "weak". If anything, that shows how we begin as clean slates and learn many of our behaviors from outside influences. As adults, we're influenced by what happens around us, such as laughing harder being in an audience at a comdey club because the laughter around you is contagious and influneces you, plus you're there because you're looking to be entertained in that manner. But you're not laughing and applauding because your mind is weak.

What does "weak mind" really mean? It's not about the mind so much as it has to do with personality. Someone who's insecure for example, may place great importance on outside perceptions of themselves. Someone with healhty self-esteem understands what's needed for acceptance in social standing and works competently with that parameter. It's the reason why Blagojevich's reality, as it were, only extends to those that may buy into it and not another Blagojevich. It's the reason there are leaders and followers.

By maintaining your composure during each and every single step you take, and by staying cool, calm, and collected, you not only maintain the greatest possible control over your environment, but you also maintain your frame, which is the name of the game.
I'd say it's the other way around. Maintaining your composure, exhibiting discipline and patience, picking your battles wisely, thinking before speaking, purposeful thoughtful acting instead of knee jerk reacting to emotions, all that can be summed up as self-control and THAT's the name of the game. It's called being mature.

What you're calling "framing" here is like you originally said, some guy putting a spin on things. Our "frames" however are about what we will and won't accept in our lives, and that's accomplished not by spinning facts, but by establishing boundaries.
 

mpimpin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
1,749
Reaction score
14
Location
Bama
Let's stay away from his situation and the political aspect of it.

Thanks
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,871
Reaction score
55
darkstarrr said:
Exactly what I meant.

I don't disagree with you fellas. But I intended for the focus of this to be about maintaining your frame rather than opinions of the dude and what he did or didn't do. If I had meant it any other way I would have posted this in the anything else section.

I see your points about how he could be a strong candidate for socio, etc. For me this way more about being able to extract what I have learned here about framing and apply it to a somewhat random example.

Know what I mean?
I saw that you were focusing on reframing more than the person or the situation, but to be honest I'm not so sure you can validly do that. I mean he's up against a lot and stands to lose everything, so naturally he's going to put his all into getting out of it. Plus, we don't know the outcome yet. I recall some time ago another politician, Trafficant, was facing charges and he did the same thing, denied everything and counter-attacked his accusers. He ended up going to jail.

Also this guy might be a soiciopath, and maybe we could analysis sociopaths and learn something from them, but maybe not. Can you act smooth like a sociopath without eventually becoming one? So I guess the question is can a person be smooth and persusive and not be a narcist and a sociopath. I suspect it's possible, but even so we need to find someone else who isn't in hot water and sketchy to model or analysis.

mpimpin said:
Let's stay away from his situation and the political aspect of it.
I have to respectful say I don't think anyone was getting into politics. Maybe it was a pre-warning, but we really can't discuss someone's value as a model for reframing without talking about the person and their situation, which isn't the same as discussing politics.

Anyway good points, Jophil and Mr. Me.
 

Alle_Gory

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
4,201
Reaction score
79
Location
T-Dot
He was ousted 59-0 in the senate so how strong a frame does he really have?

Couldn't even convince ONE person.
 

darkstarrr

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
415
Reaction score
13
Location
Dancing with the Devil by the pale moonlight.
mpimpin said:
Let's stay away from his situation and the political aspect of it.

Thanks
this thread is supposed to be about me learning to apply the knowledge i am beginning to grasp to real life circumstances and NOT about what 75% of what is actually being talked about so far. i think that's what mpimpin meant. this is about me using my imagination to learn something that i can actually infuse into part of who i am.
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,871
Reaction score
55
Alle_Gory said:
He was ousted 59-0 in the senate so how strong a frame does he really have?

Couldn't even convince ONE person.
Yep, this was one of my points. Don't give him credit till it's over with. And all his spin and denials only brought him the contempt and rath of his peers. That's the same thing that happened with Trafficant.
 

ketostix

Banned
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,871
Reaction score
55
darkstarrr said:
chr1st. this thread was supposed to be about me learning to apply my knowledge and understanding of frames etc in real life. everybody keeps focussing on the example rather then the message.
Well then use a better example. You can't use a failed example as a learning model, that's all. (I just burned another of my 10 post when I meant to edit my last post, shucks)
 

mpimpin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
1,749
Reaction score
14
Location
Bama
It was just a pre-warning guys
 
Top