The Blacksmith and the Woodsman

[grinder]

/soapbox on

I know you guys are going to flame me a new a.sshole for saying it, but the way I see it is that we're just one rambling parable shy of:

David versus Goliath and how it applies to banging really tall women

or

Moses parted the red sea, now go part her legs!

All the wisdom of the great philosophers and scholars can concievably be applied to how to improve your lives and bang more chicks in the process, so why the need to constantly regurgitate, reinterpret and reframe what the great minds of history have already perfected? Why not make a post that says "read more books dammit" ? Or better yet, why not just say "CARPE DIEM" and leave it at that?

P.S. Nuke the whales.

/soapbox off

Sounds like a variation of "There's nothing new under the sun".

Except man: and that thing between his ears.

All knowledge must be transduced, interpreted, and translated through that thing between our ears that is ever changing.

My interpretation:

Get yourself in a nice comfort zone and you will go to sleep: And not wake up for a very long time, if ever.

We must get comfortable with a little discomfort: we must continuously stretch our comfort zone just a bit, or we risk going to sleep.

Yes, nuke the whales off the coast of North Korea: and miss.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think SINISTAR, ELCHOCLO and JOKER are on about what I was trying to illustrate with this 'parable', such as it is. As a behavioral psych guy myself, one of my theories on personality is that every human being is intimately aware of their own conditions. This isn't to say that we cognitively recognize them all at once however. Since we cannot possibly devote 100% of our mental energies on all of these conditions at once, we tend to make subconscious assessments of ourselves and file them aware in our peripheral consciouness. Our neurobiology simply wont allow us to focus on too many things at once, it would drive us insane, so we've evolved mental schemas and contingencies to protect ourselves against being flooded by information, emotions, and the physical reactions that would result from that overflow.

Thus we know what our conditions are, intimately, but we keep them only on the periphery of our day to day consciousness. However, these conditions influence not only our decisions, but our rationalizations for making them. That's not to say it's impossible to assess them. We do this through introspection or we experience some traumatic event which compels us to come to terms and be honest with ourselves. The guy in the drunk tank after a DUI for instance, or the AFC who's been 'cheated' on or dumped again as a result of his lack of being able to man-up often take hard looks at not just themselves, but the conditions they're in that make up who they've become.

I believe this is the root of the "she's not in my league" mentality arises from. Most guys I know who subscribe to this do so because they're aware of their own conditions. Thus they tend to 'prefer' women of a lesser calibre. I'm an avid subscriber to the Social Matching Theory, but I don't think this theory is a straightjacket or a life sentence. People can change themselves, but it's rationalizations such as the fat guy makes for 'prefering' fat women that lead to these self-delusions. It's when we say "I prefer a silver-ish axe to a mirror-shiny axe" after we've confirmed for ourselves that we'd desire something different and often to the contrary prior that the problems start.

How often do we hear the AFC say "Oh she's really not all that bad." "I prefer heavier/stronger/dominante women."? This is a manifestation of his condition - that he's an AFC.


And here's another kicker to think about: You are with the best woman (women) you can get. If you could gt better, wouldn't you? Likewise, you are in the best job you can get for the same reason. What else have we convinced ourselves are our preferences in order to either justify a lack of motivation or as an expression of conditions we experience?

 

[squirrels]

It's always easier to convince yourself that you like what you've got than take the initiative to go out and get what you want.

But which is more fulfilling?

The funny thing is that as soon as you have what you want, you want something else, so you NEVER stop wanting more.

Most people can't handle the "pressure" of always wanting something, so they convince themselves rationally that they're happy to settle with the way their lives are now...but deep down they're not content because although they can rationalize away the desire for change on a mental level, at an emotional level, they grow weary and anxious if they're not constantly moving, changing, learning.

 

[Vulpine]

Maybe someone slipped some crack into my coffee this morning. That story, to me, is a "forest through the trees" scenario. There are a couple things that people are overlooking here. Follow along:

If I were the woodsman, I'd never be happy with an axe that someone else polished for me. Now, had I polished the axe myself... then I would be proud of the accomplishment.

Perhaps the woodsman realized this, and had a change of heart. But that's just a side note.

Perhaps the woodsman realized that his tool was not a trophy.

Let's just say that an axe is an axe. An axe is not SUPPOSED to be shiny. A shiny axe is an unused axe (Just as one could say a shiny pick-up truck is a car and no longer a pick-up truck). He was trying to change the function of the axe. No amount of polishing would change that. If the axe was the basis for his happiness (or whatever the axe could represent), his attempt to change the axe indicates that the axe wasn't adequately performing the function that he was using it for. That is, he was using the wrong tool for the job; like using a screwdriver as a pry-bar, a penny as a fuse, or a fork as a spatula. Sure, it worked, but not well, hence his attempt to polish the axe.

"You can't polish a turd."

Furthermore, in his attempts to change the function of the axe, he changed his own functionality. He used to be a woodsman. He cut wood with an axe. Suddenly, he had become a blacksmith. He became a blacksmith who polished axes and ceased to be a woodsman who cut wood.

As you can see, he didn't "settle" for anything. Instead, he "woke up" to reality, or "revisited and redefined his life's goals and adjusted his course".

Now that you see that theme, let me relate it to women for you. The guy had a woman (the axe icon) that "did the job". He imagined a better woman, and decided to pursue one. This is a case of "grass is greener" and "a bird in hand". The story illustrates how this axe (icon for a woman) becomes the focal point of his life. He is mislead and hustled by his own fantasy. Eventually, he realized his folly and dumps the attention wh0re. He didn't stop and set a goal, he had an open ended fantasy. This is why people on here have said "imagine your perfect woman write down her traits and characteristics". It's setting a tangible goal. "I going to get the mostest beautifulest woman ever" is a fool's errand.

Simply put, his axe was an attention wh0re that consumed his life. One could go so far as to say that the woodsman had one-itis for that particular axe.

Sure, the story didn't actually specify that he got a new axe, or had more than one axe. The axe is just a place holder, just as a woodsman and blacksmith are placeholders. Hmm... this site is the blacksmith, you are the woodsman, and any women in your life is/are the ax.

I'm going to start calling keyboard jockeys "blacksmiths". And, at the risk of this sounding wrong, I'm going to say: "Use women for what they are for."

 

[squirrels]

LOL...the better polished the axe is, the sharper it is and the better it cuts. He wasn't polishing it as a trophy.

And the blacksmith didn't polish it for him. The woodsman was turning the wheel himself.

You're reading way, WAY too far into the metaphor...looking at it in extreme technical detail instead of taking it for what it is. The point is that the woodsman wanted something, but got tired of putting forth the effort to get it and settled for what he had...convincing himself that it was sufficient.

Talk about "the forest through the trees".

Sitting around trying to reason the merits of a shiny axe vs a dull one is time wasted that could be spent turning the wheel.

 

[Vulpine]

Open mouth, insert foot, squirrels.

I understand how you replied the way you did.

Read it again.

After a hard day of chopping he looked at the axe and swore to himself he would make it the sharpest blade with a head polished to a mirror of silver. The woodsman then promptly went to the blacksmith in the village and explained to him his plan. The smith then said, "Surely this axe can be as bright and sharp as you wish, if only you'll turn the grindstone for me while I hone and polish it?"

A sharp blade is functional. A polished head is cosmetic and frivolous.

You are telling me that a shiny car goes faster than a dirty one. Sure, and washing my face in the morning makes my breath smell better.

And, in case you missed it:

while I hone and polish it?"

"What? Do you only have one arm and no legs or something? Are you like a Christopher Reeves blacksmith? Turn the damn grindstone yourself! You're the blacksmith! Why do you think I brought the axe to you?! If I wanted to turn a grindstone, I'd be a blacksmith, not a woodsman, jackass. WTF am I paying you for?"

An axe, squirrels is a knife blade in front of a weight, on a stick. A sharp knife cuts. A weight is a weight. A sharp knife with a shiny weight doesn't cut any better than a sharp knife with a dull weight. The woodsman wanted to make his axe of steel into a mirror of silver... if he wanted a mirror, he should buy a mirror, not polish an axe. If you want silver, you don't polish steel.

To grind an axe, you sit at a grindstone and spin it via foot pedals while you use your hands to hold the axe. The process requires only one person, an axe, and a grindstone. Even the amish only use one person to grind an axe.

So, squirrels, I understand your response. You looked at the story but didn't read it, didn't understand what an axe is, didn't understand what a grindstone is, and thus completely misinterpreted the story's content.

If you "skim" the story, the woodsman is simply a quitter. Duh.

But, if you read the story and comprehended it, the woodsman was being hustled by the blacksmith. The woodsman realized this, and yes, did indeed quit polishing the axe. But did he quit because he's a quitter, or did he quit because he realized he was being taken advantage of?

Have you ever had sales experience, squirrels? "Being happy" with the axe is like saying "I'll have to check with the wife before I spend that kind of money, maybe next time." It's a cop-out.

The woodsman then promptly went to the blacksmith in the village and explained to him his plan. The smith then said, "Surely this axe can be as bright and sharp as you wish, if only you'll turn the grindstone for me while I hone and polish it?"

Yeah buddy, whatever you want, but it's gonna cost you. Oh, and you do all the hard work, too. (Snicker, snicker, SUCKER!!)

 

[squirrels]

You know that expression a girl gets on her face when you say something that makes you look like an ass while you're sarging her...that's the expression I have on my face right now.

I know I shouldn't reply...but I've got another hour and a half to kill before I get out of here, plus I like getting in pissing matches...so since you called me out...

Read it again.

Yes, you should.

A sharp blade is functional. A polished head is cosmetic and frivolous.

A polished blade is sharp.

You are telling me that a shiny car goes faster than a dirty one.

If you polish the cylinder heads, yes. Is that what you're talking about? Otherwise your analogy makes no sense. Do you think he wanted the butt-end of the axe polished or something? WTF?

Sure, and washing my face in the morning makes my breath smell better.

Another analogy that makes no sense. And zipping up my jacket keeps my pants up...and snow in January makes bread rise. Again, WTF?

And, in case you missed it:


"What? Do you only have one arm and no legs or something? Are you like a Christopher Reeves blacksmith? Turn the damn grindstone yourself! You're the blacksmith! Why do you think I brought the axe to you?! If I wanted to turn a grindstone, I'd be a blacksmith, not a woodsman, jackass. WTF am I paying you for?"

What I did miss is the line in the story where the blacksmith requested monetary compensation. I'm sure you did too, because it's NOT IN THERE. The blacksmith is doing the woodsman a favor by lending his expertise...as long as the woodsman does the heavy work himself. You are right that the woodsman would have refused to turn the wheel if the blacksmith asked monetary compensation. So why did he agree to it, then?

An axe, squirrels is a knife blade in front of a weight, on a stick. A sharp knife cuts. A weight is a weight. A sharp knife with a shiny weight doesn't cut any better than a sharp knife with a dull weight.

Again, are you assuming he wanted the butt-end of the axe polished or something? WTF?

The woodsman wanted to make his axe of steel into a mirror of silver... if he wanted a mirror, he should buy a mirror, not polish an axe.

So you're assuming the woodsman wanted to look at himself in his axe?? WTF?

If you want silver, you don't polish steel.

Welcome to English 101.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=simile
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/metaphor

To grind an axe, you sit at a grindstone and spin it via foot pedals while you use your hands to hold the axe. The process requires only one person, an axe, and a grindstone. Even the amish only use one person to grind an axe.

No, to grind an axe, you turn on your electric grinding wheel.

Again, you're making assumptions about the technology available to this culture which are not evidenced in the story. The woodsman's back was sore from turning the grinding wheel, which implies that the grinding wheel had to be turned and that doing so was grueling work. Yet you're assuming it was some easy-to-use foot-powered mechanism, for no reason other than your own assumption/fabrication. Again...WTF?

So, squirrels, I understand your response. You looked at the story but didn't read it, didn't understand what an axe is, didn't understand what a grindstone is, and thus completely misinterpreted the story's content.

Um...I read the story on page one of this thread.

If you "skim" the story, the woodsman is simply a quitter. Duh.

And if you read it thoroughly, that is the case as well. It's not a friggin novel...it's three small paragraphs.

But, if you read the story and comprehended it,

...and made a bunch of ridiculous assumptions about details not actually included in the story, tried to establish motives for the characters, took everything literally in what is obviously a parable, and sat around for a few hours contemplating the nature and function of an axe...

the woodsman was being hustled by the blacksmith. The woodsman realized this, and yes, did indeed quit polishing the axe. But did he quit because he's a quitter, or did he quit because he realized he was being taken advantage of?

Or did he quit because he figured out a way to turn his axe into GOLD instead of silver! OMG OMG...or did he quit because the CHAINSAW just got invented! Or OMG...or did he...

Have you ever had sales experience, squirrels? "Being happy" with the axe is like saying "I'll have to check with the wife before I spend that kind of money, maybe next time." It's a cop-out.

Uhh....WTF? I can't even begin to see where you're shooting with this analogy.

Yeah buddy, whatever you want, but it's gonna cost you. Oh, and you do all the hard work, too. (Snicker, snicker, SUCKER!!)

I think I've said enough. You took a three-paragraph story and ran it through a kaleidescope/meat-grinder to try to prove some point to me. What that point is, I'm really not sure...if I'm reading you right, you think that all pretty women are attention wh0res trying to scam you out of something. If that's the moral you want to live by, then go right ahead.

And I'm really not sure why you dug so deep into this. Rollo lays out clearly what the moral of the story is. But it seems that you skimmed over that in your anxiousness to deliver your grand re-telling of the story itself.

 

[Vulpine]

I must've been wrong. I figured since others had pointed out other facets of the story, it would be okay if I shared what I took from the story and related it to the overall theme of the forum.

The "face", or "blade" of an ax is the only part of the ax that contacts wood. The "head" of an ax refers the whole metal end of the complete assembly known as an "ax". It seems like you refuse to acknowledge that polishing the non-wood contacting areas will not make the cutting edge any more effective. It's like you've never seen or used an ax before. The story cleary separates the woodsman's axe into two parts: the BLADE and the HEAD. The story further acknowledges the two different parts when relating progress: sharper blade, shinier head. The story doesn't say "shinier blade" or "sharper head" anywhere.

Ultimately, I'm left feeling that I owe everyone an apology for my understanding of axes?

If you can't relate or don't understand what someone is saying, don't try telling them that they are wrong. Instead, ask questions that will make you understand.

 

[ElChoclo]

Vulpine, I thought about doing what you did with this axe story, but then again there is such a thing as respect. I only half went down that path. I could see that in this environment there was definitely going to be a tendency for this outcome.

Returning to RTs main point though, I am not sure that there is a complete unawareness that a person has settled for less. They might have to justify their actions by professing to like something, but I think that on one level they know that what they are saying is false, that they have settled for less. And that knowledge maybe, is the root of many psychological disorders.

 

[squirrels]

The story cleary separates the woodsman's axe into two parts: the BLADE and the HEAD. The story further acknowledges the two different parts when relating progress: sharper blade, shinier head. The story doesn't say "shinier blade" or "sharper head" anywhere.

The two are one and the same. The context of the story indicates that the two are used interchangeably.

On just about every axe I've ever seen in my life, the head and the blade of an axe are the same piece. I've never seen an axe where the head and blade were separate pieces.

You started it, not me. You accused everyone else of "not being able to see the forest through the trees".

Anyway, the point of the thread is not the story. The point is the underlying message...that people often settle for less because they're not willing to put in the effort to get what they want.

There's no such woodsman or blacksmith...they don't exist except to tell a story, so there's no use trying to read more into the story than is there. What happened, I think, is that some people got uncomfortable with the message of the story...the thought that a lot of them had settled for lesser women because they didn't want to put forth the time and effort to learn to nab the really GOOD women. The same way that before they found SoSuave, they settled for NO women because they didn't want to put forth the risk to learn to get ANY women.

So they did what they do in real life...add all kinds of boundaries and explanations and rationalizations to justify the hypothetical woodsman's quitting before he reached his goal.

I feel the same way when I hear that story...but now the praise or blame falls solely on me. I don't blame women for being flakes, attention wh0res, etc, etc...this is female nature. If you want a woman who is feminine and attractive, these things come with it, in one form or another. You either grind at it until you become sharp enough to manage those things, or you stop grinding and settle for less.

But if you're happy with less, then you're happy with less. You don't sit there and rationalize until you come up with a good reason.

You're reading a lot of malice and deceit into the blacksmith which is not necessarily there. You're also reading a lot into the nature of the woodsman's goal which isn't there. And ALL to justify his not finishing what he started, not continuing toward his goal.

AND not only THAT, but you did it with a GREAT deal of personal malice toward ME...in a very defensive manner. As if I had struck a nerve with my comments.

So you can b!tch at me all you want about word semantics and hidden motivations of imaginary characters all you want...

...or you can go out and get started turning that grindstone. (Metaphorically, of course, to avoid confusion)

 

[Tazman]

Vulpine, I thought your interpretation of the story was excellent, and it's always nice to see things from different angles. It made sense, and it actually accentuates my point. The woodsman had what he "needed" and decided not to waste more time indulging his fantasy because in reality, he had more important things to do with his time.

Who wouldn't want a nice shiny axe? But you must realize that getting that axe requires a lot of time and effort, and what do you think will happen once you start using this axe? It will eventually return to it's former state and you'll wonder why you put so much into getting it shiny in the first place. The payoff wasn't nearly worth the effort.

I apply this reasoning to women. I know what kind of guys the more attractive women want, I see examples of this all the time. I simply don't see the benefit in trying to adjust my personality for some pretty ass. I'll take a decent, average ass that doesn't require so much maintenance any day.

 

[ElChoclo]

Perhaps my amusement at these detailed discussions about axe heads is indecent. I particularly liked the comment that the axe head was symbolic of an AW.

 

[Tazman]

As a side note, I do understand the point of the original poster, but I also like the other interpretations because they seem to fit well if you have an opposing view.

 

[grinder]

Whoa, I think even Mr. T missed my point here. My reference spans both B Franklin’s original and Mr. T’s DJ interpretation.

It’s all about comfort and the path of least resistance. And, most importantly, about making decisions, choices (some harder than others).

The Woodsman was uncomfortable waiting and turning the stone. It was easier to decide (a mental event) he liked it as it was than to put forth the effort to continue to turn the stone (a physical event) and be patient.

My point: The Woodsman chose the easier path, the path of least resistance. Those that know Franklin know this was a biggie with him.

Soooo, getting back to OUR main issue, being a happy pvssy getter: For many (not me anymore, thanks to this place), approaching women is VERY uncomfortable. It’s oh so much easier to just say “she’s out of my league”, or “I got a zit today…”, or “I need to re-read Pook’s or Fingers stuff first…” than to, choke, actually walk up to her and make her laugh.

IMHO, many decide that it would actually be easier to shine an axe with regrets than rejections.

 

[Sinistar]

Returning to RTs main point though, I am not sure that there is a complete unawareness that a person has settled for less. They might have to justify their actions by professing to like something, but I think that on one level they know that what they are saying is false, that they have settled for less. And that knowledge maybe, is the root of many psychological disorders.

This is a key observation related to this topic. I very much believe there is a conscious awareness when we 'settle'. It doesn't *feel* right? So we attempt to rationalize (ie normalize) it. Does that make us a good person or a bad person - nope, just doing one of the many things human beings tend to do. However, I do believe there will be a noticeable difference between those that tend to settle a lot versus those who rarely settle.

Related to this site. Who really wants a woman to 'settle' for us? And likewise, who really wants to 'settle' for a woman?

I dated several women this past winter and spring. One of them happened to be younger, never married, no kids, great career, outstanding family, healthy friends, decent hobbies and interests, is way into me, every one of my friends and family enjoy being around her - and she is gorgeous! Those were the standards I set for myself when I started dating again. You could say that I didn't allow myself to settle......

.....yet we all know (all you guys who are married, dating, engaged, etc.) that we all have (or will) settle (to some extent). On the day, the instant, we went exclusive, proposed, got married, etc we know/knew deep down at some logical/primal level that there are still other women out there who could be just as compatible with us. We know, there's a great chance there might be one a bit younger or even more physically attractive or little more wealthy, etc.

I say watch the underlying goals and beliefs. If a mega-AFC who's standards are HB9+'s hasn't even kissed a woman by mid-life, we could surely applaud him for not settling. But even he know's something isn't right. His goals and beliefs are basically incongruent with his experience, confidence, etc. Sure, when he finally decides to sleep with the HB6, he's gonna *know* he settled. He's also going to realize how his goals and beliefs have shifted - he just learned something (ie experience & confidence). If he's thinking straight, his goals and beliefs will re-align and hopefully his next degree of settling will not be as extreme (so to speak).

Perhaps 'settling' is merely another human survival tool. The balancing act between taking the path of least resistance and challenging ourselves to reach goals we know are good for us, yet will not be easy.

 

[squirrels]

There's nothing wrong with hooking up with the 6s and 7s. You learn from them...and it's when you start REALLY learning how to please them that the 8s and 9s become available to you. It wasn't until I was steady-dating a 6 that 9s started coming into my life.

Plus, you guys act like the only measure of a woman is looks. The "mirror-sharp" axe is a metaphor for whatever type of girl you want. I'm after one who's shiny and mirror smooth, that can also cut through trees like a hot knife through butter. I'll take what I can get in the meantime, but I'm not going to make excuses for not grinding any more.

 

[Latinoman]

The morale of the parable is “conformism”.

A person that knows what he wants…and then after realizing that getting what he wants takes hard work or is not as easy... he reverts into a state of conformism. A conformist will always find a justification for settling for less.

Focusing on the positives and not the negatives is not a bad approach. However, justifying a behavior by completely ignoring the negatives is a bad approach. My point is that we should take a look at the entire picture (negative and positive) and focus on the positives while at the same time creating an awareness of the negatives. Then improve on the negatives as much as possible (or with time).

Conformism is the equivalent of inner laziness, which on itself is a character flaw.

 

[blueguy]

It's a good story that trandscends women really. At some point (if you want to raise a family) you have to settle for one woman. I think the usefulness of this story can be even more fully applied then. If you're a 7 personality/looks wise and marry a 7, then the ideal is to grow / keep polishing the blade together. So you're not really settling as long as you've got a mate who thinks the same way you do as they are improving with you. Unfortunately it doesn't always work that way, but it is the (my) ideal.