The 'Big Lie' that the 'dating gurus' are teaching......

[skeeloo]

yes a short bald, fat, ugly guy can land a chick, how.

if he's rich.

get that lambo and pull the chicks. they doncare if these chicks are after thier money as long as they are fuking them and will end up getting married. so there is hope for the short,bald,ugly dude. money.

iv never trusted or paid much attenshion to these socalled dating guru's. many of them are kj. all thier artcles are recycled and nothing new. guys still get laid without knowing about these sites. though they give guys a good start-up about confidence and not taking bull**** from women. which is really usefull the rest is just crap only you can knwon which seductionmethod works best for you.

as for women being superficial yes we all are to some extent, but many women go for whats available even though the men arnt that physicall attractive, since they hate the idea of being alone. they would still give the hot guys stares evry now and then, or even probably **** them. but saying guys below 7. in looks cant get chicks is a lie they still can. atleast chicks thier own level or even a bit higher

 

[Wyldfire]

Manipulation is not helpful to men in being successful with women. It can work a little bit for a short time...but it never works in the long term. However, trying to be manipulative is the easiest thing for an "AFC" to understand because they have always tried to use it in their past. Becoming friends with a girl you really want to have sex with and trying to win her over by doing things for her is NOT being a "nice guy"...it's manipulation.

It's so much better and more productive to just be honest about what you want and to have the balls to go after it straight up, openly and honestly instead of trying to be sneaky, manipulative and use trickery.

 

[00Kevin]

Originally posted by lynch1000s
Good looks trigger emotions in the females mind. When I say emotion, I don't mean game or personality.

I'm a salesman, and I can tell you this- if you want to make a sale, then you have to get the buyer impulsed in the product that you're selling.

Your goal is to impulse the girl that you're trying to attract. Some girls are impulsed (emotionally) by a guy's looks, some by their personality, some by their sense of humor, some by their smile.

Impulsing a girl is emotionally based. Re- you have to impulse a girl to be attracted to you.

Sorry, but had to clear that up.

I agree, when you deal with a woman it is all about triggering emotional responses.

Women feel their way through life like a person feels their way through a dark room. If you don't give a woman anything to feel then she will never be able to find her way to you.

As a man you can't ask why a woman does this or that and try to make sense out of it. There is no logical reason for a womans responses.

This is why Kino works so well with women. Touching her helps guide her in your direction. Being funny provokes emotions.

So when you meet a nice girl don't try to give her a logical reason to like you. Don't expect anything from her. Focus on provoking emotional responses only.

Provoking an emotional response is not manipulation as some people here have suggested. It is a method of communication

 

[ketostix]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
Manipulation is not helpful to men in being successful with women. It can work a little bit for a short time...but it never works in the long term. However, trying to be manipulative is the easiest thing for an "AFC" to understand because they have always tried to use it in their past. Becoming friends with a girl you really want to have sex with and trying to win her over by doing things for her is NOT being a "nice guy"...it's manipulation.

It's so much better and more productive to just be honest about what you want and to have the balls to go after it straight up, openly and honestly instead of trying to be sneaky, manipulative and use trickery.

And how many girls have you picked up using that technique. Oh yeah that's right you're not a guy. Well how many guys have picked you up using that technique? I say bullsh!t.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by ketostix
And how many girls have you picked up using that technique. Oh yeah that's right you're not a guy. Well how many guys have picked you up using that technique? I say bullsh!t.

How many times did you get sex from girls you pretended to be friends with in a lame attempt to get in their pants? How many more girls actually returned interest when you were honest about being interested in more than friendship and grew some balls to ask them out?

Now...what part of my claim about being honest about what you want and having the balls to go for it was wrong again? Please enlighten me, oh wise one.

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by ketostix
And how many girls have you picked up using that technique. Oh yeah that's right you're not a guy. Well how many guys have picked you up using that technique? I say bullsh!t.

Actually, Keto, she's right, so shut it.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Oh please,..

99% of AFCs buy the LJBF line women hand out like halloween candy and try to live up to a pseudo-friendship; hardly what I'd call male manipulation. Self-defeating, self-deluding perhaps, but not manipulation (maybe self-manipulation). They're only doing what they think is expected of them in order to fvck a girl they're never going to see naked and it's usually the woman that feeds his delusion until circumstances shake him into a moment of clarity.

It's called an intermitent schedule of reinforcement - give the AFC enough patronization as reinforcement and he'll keep supplying attention.

All this nonsense does is keep an AFC sticking to his failing behaviors and points a finger at sites like this (who honestly try to help) and makes them the reason for his failures in order to sell a product.

You'll only get what you've gotten if you keep doing what you've done.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
Oh please,..

99% of AFCs buy the LJBF line women hand out like halloween candy and try to live up to a pseudo-friendship; hardly what I'd call male manipulation. Self-defeating, self-deluding perhaps, but not manipulation (maybe self-manipulation). They're only doing what they think is expected of them in order to fvck a girl they're never going to see naked and it's usually the woman that feeds his delusion until circumstances shake him into a moment of clarity.

It's called an intermitent schedule of reinforcement - give the AFC enough patronization as reinforcement and he'll keep supplying attention.

All this nonsense does is keep an AFC sticking to his failing behaviors and points a finger at sites like this (who honestly try to help) and makes them the reason for his failures in order to sell a product.

You'll only get what you've gotten if you keep doing what you've done.

Rollo...you should know better than argue this one.

And MOST AFCs who end up doing this NEVER show any romantic interest at all. If they had the balls to do that they never would have pretended to be a friend in the first place.

Here is a definition for you:

Social psychology

In a psychological context, manipulation means to influence a person or a group of people in such a way that the manipulator tries to get what he wants or makes a person believe something in a calculating, indirect and somewhat dishonest way.

Does an AFC try to influence a woman into falling for him under the guise of friendship or not? Yes, he does. Just because the attempt at manipulating a woman in this way never works doesn't mean the intent is not there. And it IS dishonest because he often goes on for literally years pretending only to be a friend when he has always wanted more. That IS dishonest. It's also very hurtful and deceitful to the woman when out of nowhere he finally admits the truth and then expects her to want him after realizing all this time he has basically been lying to and deceiving her. There is nothing "nice" or "pity worthy" about anyone who misleads another person in this way. It's inherently wrong and definitely not "nice".

 

[ketostix]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
How many times did you get sex from girls you pretended to be friends with in a lame attempt to get in their pants? How many more girls actually returned interest when you were honest about being interested in more than friendship and grew some balls to ask them out?

Now...what part of my claim about being honest about what you want and having the balls to go for it was wrong again? Please enlighten me, oh wise one.

Here's a few real life examples:

Boy: I like you, I think you're special.
Girl: Um, LJBF.

Boy: I want to hook up with you. Let's go over to my place.
Girl: You just want sex, perv! See you!

Boy: I think you're so attractive. Let's go out.
Girl: You're so shallow...I can't I'm washing my hair tonight.

Just a few simple examples but I haven't seen women respond to sinceretiy and direct approach. I'll stop arguing with you but I know and a lot of other guys know from experience it doesn't work like the sugar coated way you females claim it does.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by ketostix
Here's a few real life examples:

Boy: I like you, I think you're special.
Girl: Um, LJBF.

Boy: I want to hook up with you. Let's go over to my place.
Girl: You just want sex, perv! See you!

Boy: I think you're so attractive. Let's go out.
Girl: You're so shallow...I can't I'm washing my hair tonight.

Just a few simple examples but I haven't seen women respond to sinceretiy and direct approach. I'll stop arguing with you but I know and a lot of other guys know from experience it doesn't work like the sugar coated way you females claim it does.

Any girl who gives any of those kinds of responses are NOT attracted to you anyhow. Do tell me, please, how pretending to be their friend and not having the balls to approach them and ask them out is going to change that fact? All it does is prolong the rejection and waste time and effort.

 

[ketostix]

It's not a question of approaching vs, not approaching. It's a question of the type of approach. That's the point the direct and sincere approach turns the girl off while a more indirect approach is usually more successful. Women like mystery and games and demand a guy acts that way whereas the direct approach is revealing all your cards and puts the girl off.

You'll never get it; you just argue in illogical circles. Just goes to prove my point that it's a waste of time discussing pick up with a female.

 

[AverageFC]

as another poster said, all this is is a marketing ploy to get you to spend your money on this product too.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by ketostix
It's not a question of approaching vs, not approaching. It's a question of the type of approach. That's the point the direct and sincere approach turns the girl off while a more indirect approach is usually more successful. Women like mystery and games and demand a guy acts that way whereas the direct approach is revealing all your cards and puts the girl off.

You'll never get it; you just argue in illogical circles. Just goes to prove my point that it's a waste of time discussing pick up with a female.

Your problem is that you are taking my post too damn literal. No, I didn't mean to walk up to some random girl you find attractive and say "Gee, I sure would like to f*ck you! How about a blow j*b?"

I said to be honest and open that you are interested in her...meaning don't act like an asexual effeminate man. Have some balls and take some risks. Approach her and flirt, ask for her number, etc.

And to be quite blunt...it's GIRLS who like the mystery and games. Women aren't really fond of the nonsense. That's why as women get older they become much easier and more pleasant to deal with for men...unless of course they stay girls and never grow up. By the time I hit my mid to late twenties I had grown weary and sick of drama and BS. I just can't be bothered with it.

 

[ketostix]

Thanks for providing more useless explanation. I'm interested in young attractive girls not old washed up ones that are played out, so I'm not interested in your erroneous claim that older chicks are easier to deal with. Wyldfire the point is you think you know everything about how a guy is suppose to pick up chicks, but you have no experience in the matter and you won't accept constructive criticism, and you continuously twist things around to always be right. Now I'm done trying to get you to see the light.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by ketostix
Thanks for providing more useless explanation. I'm interested in young attractive girls not old washed up ones that are played out, so I'm not interested in your erroneous claim that older chicks are easier to deal with. Wyldfire the point is you think you know everything about how a guy is suppose to pick up chicks, but you have no experience in the matter and you won't accept constructive criticism, and you continuously twist things around to always be right. Now I'm done trying to get you to see the light.

Oh for the love of Christ...

There isn't a goddamned thing "wrong" with the post I made that you got all worked up over. The fact of the matter is that the ONLY reason you feel compelled to jump all over my posts and make a big fuss over them is because I happen to have tits. You LOOK for an excuse to complain about what I post JUST because I am a woman. It's blatantly obvious. You are SO hell bent on finding something wrong with what I say that even another guy noticed it and told you to knock it off.

Furthermore...I have no problem with "constructive criticism"...but that is NOT what you are doing. "Get me to see the light"? Is that what you call pi$$ing and moaning in a futile attempt to get me to agree with you just to appease you? That's a waste of your time and energy if ever there was one. If at some point you're actually right or have a valid point when you respond to something I say, then, and ONLY then will I agree with you. But as for now you're just stomping your feet in response to me, as a woman, posting here. Get over it, already...

 

[Albion4]

First off, get this through your skulls, there is no f<beep>king magic pill. You will never pick up women with a few cue cards from some book in hand. Some of these guys have some great ideas, but you're not expected to take the literal example and use it. Look at the idea behind it, learn from it, then go out and use it's incorporation into you to gain more experience.

Second, stop thinking that because you think a certain way as a man, women think that way also. Women do not think like men, they are 100% different, and you will never completely understand it because you're not a woman.

You want to pick up women? Then stop being afraid. For example, the first time I ever jumped out of an airplane I was crapping in my pants scared s<beep>tless, but I jumped anyway because I wanted to feel the experience. It didn't matter how many people told me before hand, "You have nothing to fear, it's great" the fear did not go away. It wasn't until I had a few jumps under my belt that I realized there wasn't anything to be scared of and only then did the fear go away. The fear of the unknown can be a powerful thing, and it can both turn a man into a blithering idiot and turn a man into a hero. I know, I can't stand high places. But you will never be able to replace "unknown" with "known" unless you experience it. And you will never experience it if you keep giving in to those fears. I hate to use an overused quote but Roosevelt said it best, "The only thing to fear is fear itself." Think about it what he was trying to say. He was saying that the only thing you really need to be afraid of is not doing the right thing at the right time simply because you're afraid.

I guess what I am really trying to say is no matter how many books you read and how much advice you get, you are not going to be good at picking up women unless you get yourself out there and try.

-Al

 

[Analysis]

It's not a big lie

Let me tell you that all the material that you get from this website and NLP stuff takes years to master....

I use bits and pieces....First you have to read everything you can get your hands on and then after a few years of practice you will be on auto-pilot....

I'm 26 right now....I learned at the age of 21 - after another relationship had gone sour that I was doing something wrong....At 21 I started inquiring from my best friend who I had considered to be a dog what should I do...He basically told me to treat them like crap...and that what I start doing and it actually worked....Then I bought everything pimp book, pimp movie, NLP, dating books, Doc Love, whatever I could find....I became cold as Ice....It worked up to a certain point....Women are intially attracted to that type of guy but you play that challenge game too long it eventually turns them off....
Out of all the material...I would say that Doc Love should be your foundation...Your bible...and the Art of Seduction by Robert Greene should be your advanced bible....Everything else should just supplement it...NLP, Pimp books...whatever....I guareentee you that if you follow Doc Loves Book thouroghly you will find a girl that is a keeper...The key is to find a girl who likes you too much that you like....Once you do - have confidence, challenge, and control...which is what keeps the women ---After 60 days she will want to marry if you do you thing...After 2 months you can lighten up on the challenge - a few notches but not completely...Then after that implement the maintainence program by doing little creative things for her every month to keep her from nagging and your good....Seriously get Doc Loves book - It is not joke.....Since my enlightenment at 21 - I've never had a girl break up w/ me or anything...
The only scenarios I have face since receiving the light is a girl getting mad and leaving because she can't get what she wanted from me like time....or I may have to cutt off a girl because I'm not feeling her....and thats bascically it...
Now, I've been w/ a girl for about 3 years...and its been wonderful and all due to Doc Love, Sosuave and everything....I don't think a week has gone by since I was 21 that I havn't studied this stuff...I never want to slip up on my game...I don't go a week without my girl saying when are we going to get married...I say all this to say --- Keep Practicing - All this stuff works..It's just not overnight stuff.....You can be the ugliest dude and still come up and you got your stuff together...Your game, Your career and Your physical body on point....You can do it...

 

[Ricky]

Good posts
Analysis, A-Unit and Wyldfire.

Wyldfire in particular i know alot of guys who pulled the friend act for too long and never made a go for it.

After awhile if you are in friends zone it is kind of awkward to pull out of it.

I like acting uninterested at first than asking a girl out. Just talking to her like shes a bratty little sister (I like David D recommended that) seems to work pretty well the first few times you meet a girl.

Now what I find of particular interest in the dating gurus is how much time they spend creating the "pain" . They have you review all the pain and frustration your having with women and even amplify it by telling stories of guys getting screwed over.

Then they offer themselves as the cure. They use NLP to a tee to sell their products!

 

[MrHarris]

Originally posted by 00Kevin
I agree, when you deal with a woman it is all about triggering emotional responses.

Women feel their way through life like a person feels their way through a dark room. If you don't give a woman anything to feel then she will never be able to find her way to you.

As a man you can't ask why a woman does this or that and try to make sense out of it. There is no logical reason for a womans responses.

This is why Kino works so well with women. Touching her helps guide her in your direction. Being funny provokes emotions.

So when you meet a nice girl don't try to give her a logical reason to like you. Don't expect anything from her. Focus on provoking emotional responses only.

Provoking an emotional response is not manipulation as some people here have suggested. It is a method of communication

You come a long ways 00Kevin. Good words.