The 'Big Lie' that the 'dating gurus' are teaching......

Guitar_Whizz

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Hi fellow DJs, have any of you read this week's 'how to suceed with women' newsletter? There was an interesting article I thought you'd find interesting. Any comments? Here is the article:-

********************************************
We have an important message for you today--
a message that will make the difference between
getting what you want with women, or simply
wasting a lot of time and energy.

It's simply this...

There's a "dirty little secret" that most
so-called "Dating Gurus" have in common.

That secret is the "big lie" that is at the core
of almost all of the programs most "Dating Gurus"
teach.

That "big lie" is making you fail with women --
and is causing you pain and making you feel bad
about yourself.

When you believe the "big lie," you make a mistake
so fundamental that it causes more failure with
women, more problems, and more out-and-out PAIN
than any other mistake men make.

But it's the most popular, favorite mistake for
men to make. And a lot of scam-oriented dating
teachers make a lot of money teaching it to men
like you.

But before we get to what the dirty little secret
is, we have to talk about its effects.

Have you tried manipulative approaches with women
-- perhaps trying

- "being ****y and funny"

- hypnosis

- or "patterns"?

and have you been left feeling like you were doing
something wrong?

You probably have.

Did it feel "unnatural" to try these things?

It probably did.

And worst of all -- did you feel bad about
yourself, as if it was YOUR fault that those
approaches felt wrong, and that they didn't work?

Well, it's not your fault. It's the fault of the
scam artists who sold you on the "big lie."

So what is the "Big Lie" -- and how can your get
what you want with women by understanding and
avoiding it?

We want to explain the "Big Lie" in an unusual way
-- by talking about the movie "Groundhog Day."

(Don't worry -- we're going to let you in on the
secret that will let your interactions with hot
women be easy, automatic, and overwhelmingly
successful. This email is, in fact, a fast way to
do it.)

The other night we watched the film "Groundhog
day."

Have you seen it? It stars Bill Murray as a man
who gets caught living the same day (it happens to
be February 2nd, Groundhog Day), over and over.

He can learn and change his behavior each day,
but, no matter what he does, the next morning
everything around him resets itself, and it's the
previous day all over again.

Have you ever felt that way with women? Have you
ever felt like, no matter what you do, the same
thing happens again and again with women? If so,
this will make sense to you.

You see, when Bill Murray's character discovers
that he's living the same day over and over, he
realizes it's a chance to try to "get" a woman
he's attracted to.

He decides to become the best manipulator he can.
He starts collecting information about her, and
starts to figure out "the perfect thing" to say to
her.

And he falls into believing the "Big Lie": the
belief that, if you can only become manipulative
enough, and controlling enough, you can get what
you want with women -- and be happy.

So Murray tries to become the expert manipulator
of this woman. He finds all her weak spots and hot
buttons, and slowly develops a routine he can go
through with her. He tries to find the mechanical
path that will get him into bed with her.

Because each morning she's forgotten the day
before, he can test, over and over, different
"scripts" with her, until he finds the script that
works best.

But no matter how good his manipulation gets, she
feels it. She feels manipulated. She pushes him
away.

And he stresses, too. The more he treats her like
an enemy he has to outsmart, outmaneuver, and
defeat, the less happy and successful he is. (Does
that sound familiar to you?)

He bought the "Big Lie" that some manipulative act
is the "answer" with women.

Most so-called "dating gurus" make their living by
selling a bogus "bill of goods" to unsuspecting
men. They sell this crap to men who just want to
have relationships that they enjoy with women they
are attracted to. But these men get sold on the
"Big Lie."

If you've tried to be "****y and funny" and ended
up just feeling like a jerk, then someone sold you
the "big lie," too.

If you've tired hypnosis, NLP or "patterns," and
ended up just feeling like there was something
wrong with you, then you also got sold the "big
lie."

We didn't become the original, best-selling and
best-respected dating gurus by "selling the big
lie."

Our book, "How to Succeed with Women" is in seven
languages with more than 200,000 copies sold
worldwide because we teach men the simple core
principles of succeeding with women.

We teach the simple principles that will NEVER GO
AWAY. We teach the principles that will always
work,naturally, because our approach IS natural.
And that's why our work has been so successful,
all over the world. And that's why it will work
for you, too.

We won't give away the end of the movie, but will
simply tell you this:

Finally, for him to get what he wanted, he had to
stop focusing on manipulation and strategizing and
learn to discover who he was and to express his
natural romantic self.

That's what you must do, too.

While it is true that there are some tools and
techniques that can help you bring out your
romantic self so you can easily get what you want
with women -- there's a world of difference
between that and simply focusing on becoming a
better manipulator of women.

In fact, as you read these words, men who are no
better than you are getting the women YOU desire.

They are doing it by bringing out their natural,
romantic selves.

You can do it, too.
 

simon

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So they're selling another big lie? Great!
 

ego

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" So they're selling another big lie? Great!"


I'll write a letter just like his one, about it, and sell another book, called "how to avoid getting scammed by stupid eBook-sellers."

Wanna buy it? It's $9.90 only!
 

Ricky

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Interesting though.

The key to avoid being manipulative is by truly not caring about impressing a girl and talking to her in a way that almost seems like you have no interest, or at least acting like you don't which is alot easier when you don't. Talking to her like she is just a friend or your sister is the best easy way in the beginning.

Also assume rapport with women. If they are being *****y, cut them off short and move on.

What is the best way to get this way? By talking to every girl. By making them all feel good, but also being slightly withdrawn.

When you talk to every girl you will certainly get a girlfriend or two or three. Then what value does the interaction with HB10 down the road matter when you just banged your HB9 and HB8 the night before.

The only value the interaction is, is what you give it.

The more laid back and relaxed with women you are the better you do.

This might be the key thing I've learned over the years.

It is hard to be laid back if you have never been laid or don't have alot of experience. Thats why the more girls you are with the better you do. You get to the point where every interaction doesnt matter.

Thats the point Im' at with women, when I'm in the meeting them stage. The problem I'm having with is keeping the laidback view after I date them for awhile. But I address this in the mature forum.
 

A-Unit

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That's from "How to Succeed with Women"

I got the same email. It's just a marketing hook, which is to a degree, 'right'. The glut of dating advice has STILL not helped mankind in the true quest, which is MORE successful dating. More dates does not equal more success. Nor does more numbers. More women doesn't either if you have nothing in common with them and no connection. True dating success would be to find MUTUAL happiness. You bring to the table everything she wants, and she brings to the table everything YOU want.



The best piece of advice I DID read though was from Real World seduction when it talked about framing. Frame are your picture of how that moment is. It's not so much of how its said, but the context of what its said in.


C&F is the result of a frame. It's not a technique, it's "framed" a certain way from the outset. You can sense this when a woman "plays into the frame." A frame is your outlook on a situation; there's also a bigger frame to life, and that's your outlook on life. Some call it perspective. Most guys have the "frame" that they aren't good enough, so it's killed from the get go. On the other hand, I believe we're all important and no one is important, that we're all a bunch of fools trying to 'feel' important, when really we already are important and need nothing more in life to be that way. I feel having someone friendly approach me is a great thing, so I do it to people.


You don't need techniques or questions in your back pocket, only the "feeling" of the situation will help dictate your path. If you're out with a girl you're interested in, and feel something towards, then you're NATURALLY going to attract her. Close your eyes, when you're not looking at her, what do you feel? What do you see? What do you think? What do you want to know about her? If you're asking the questions, you maintain control. You also get ammo you can use to set up frames of C&F.

__________________________


Be Cool.


Never a better line. Sit back. You're interviewing this girl to be on your team, and to enter your life. Make sure she fits and doesn't bring too much shyt you gotta sort out. You're out to have fun, make friends, meet people.


In sales, studies have concluded that the bigger the purchasing price, the longer the courting period. Mystery has stated it takes over 7 hours to court a chick into bed, and he's got a proper system for it. The Lay Man, would do well to just go with whatever and take a lax view on it. It WILL come/***.


This might be my preference, but if you burn out all the anticipation now, what's left for later?



A-Unit
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Yawn,...

Sales pitch, pure and simple, but pretty clever actually. If they up and told you what the 'Big Lie' was in the first paragraph you'd likely pay no mind to it and pass it off, but they draw you in with all this 'curiosity approach' writing. They play on AFC and RAFC insecurity to sell product, well done Mr. Marketeer. "Does it feel wrong?" then it must be, right? Buy my book to assure youself you can 'just be yourself'.
 

Jariel

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I think the big lie is that most of what dating gurus teach is bullsh1t, yet it has a placebo effect to give guys confidence. They think they're armed with powerful seduction secrets so they go into the field more and persist more. Very few of these seduction secrets work, but the guy has increased his confidence and increased his odds...and he gives the credit for this to the guru's techniques.

I also notice that a lot of gurus and guys on this site encourage hitting on ANY woman, so of course if you lower your standards you will increase your odds and have more success.
 

MrHarris

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One common theme that I find in relation to this "big lie" theory is that short and bald or fat and ugly guys can seduce 10's. NOT.

Sorry but that is not a norm. People who rate less than 7's in looks usually date someone of equal or below their ranking. It is very very rarely that you will find say a 5 looking guy dating a 10 looking woman.
 

Jariel

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Originally posted by MrHarris
One common theme that I find in relation to this "big lie" theory is that short and bald or fat and ugly guys can seduce 10's. NOT.

Sorry but that is not a norm. People who rate less than 7's in looks usually date someone of equal or below their ranking. It is very very rarely that you will find say a 5 looking guy dating a 10 looking woman.
Unless they have a lot of money, which many of these gurus do!
 

rgeere

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I agree with the premise that many men use c+f and other things to seek to become manipulative, but I disagreee with the conclusion that that is what these 'dating guru's' are attempting to make them be like.

I think it is a clever marketing hook to put trust into one product at the expense of other products, that in turn is manipulation in my book. This article is hypocritical, manipulative, and full of crock in the marketive sense anyways.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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'Manipulative' or maintaining a degree of self-control and an attitude of self-worth? One of the reasons guys fail in this respect is this pathetic attitude that any thing masculine is automatically manipulative or negative. A guy can be in authority in a relationship, having a womans earned respect, and not be manipulative. No one calls women manipulative when the power swings their way by default when guys voluntarily feel expected to give it to them.

I love it when AFCs think they're 'gurus'.
 

Royal Elite

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Originally posted by MrHarris
One common theme that I find in relation to this "big lie" theory is that short and bald or fat and ugly guys can seduce 10's. NOT.

Sorry but that is not a norm. People who rate less than 7's in looks usually date someone of equal or below their ranking. It is very very rarely that you will find say a 5 looking guy dating a 10 looking woman.
Believing the impossible is possible will get you a lot further then believing the possible is impossible

Seeing the impossible as possible has always proceeded the impossible becoming possible
 

alphawolfx

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Re: That's from "How to Succeed with Women"

Originally posted by A-Unit
I got the same email. It's just a marketing hook, which is to a degree, 'right'. The glut of dating advice has STILL not helped mankind in the true quest, which is MORE successful dating. More dates does not equal more success. Nor does more numbers. More women doesn't either if you have nothing in common with them and no connection. True dating success would be to find MUTUAL happiness. You bring to the table everything she wants, and she brings to the table everything YOU want.



The best piece of advice I DID read though was from Real World seduction when it talked about framing. Frame are your picture of how that moment is. It's not so much of how its said, but the context of what its said in.


C&F is the result of a frame. It's not a technique, it's "framed" a certain way from the outset. You can sense this when a woman "plays into the frame." A frame is your outlook on a situation; there's also a bigger frame to life, and that's your outlook on life. Some call it perspective. Most guys have the "frame" that they aren't good enough, so it's killed from the get go. On the other hand, I believe we're all important and no one is important, that we're all a bunch of fools trying to 'feel' important, when really we already are important and need nothing more in life to be that way. I feel having someone friendly approach me is a great thing, so I do it to people.


You don't need techniques or questions in your back pocket, only the "feeling" of the situation will help dictate your path. If you're out with a girl you're interested in, and feel something towards, then you're NATURALLY going to attract her. Close your eyes, when you're not looking at her, what do you feel? What do you see? What do you think? What do you want to know about her? If you're asking the questions, you maintain control. You also get ammo you can use to set up frames of C&F.

__________________________


Be Cool.


Never a better line. Sit back. You're interviewing this girl to be on your team, and to enter your life. Make sure she fits and doesn't bring too much shyt you gotta sort out. You're out to have fun, make friends, meet people.


In sales, studies have concluded that the bigger the purchasing price, the longer the courting period. Mystery has stated it takes over 7 hours to court a chick into bed, and he's got a proper system for it. The Lay Man, would do well to just go with whatever and take a lax view on it. It WILL come/***.


This might be my preference, but if you burn out all the anticipation now, what's left for later?



A-Unit
F.UCKING PERFECT
 

MrHarris

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Originally posted by Royal Elite
Believing the impossible is possible will get you a lot further then believing the possible is impossible

Seeing the impossible as possible has always proceeded the impossible becoming possible
LOL, there is nothing wrong with the power of belief. But read the posts on these sites. Someone posted on todays board that many of the guys who come to these places are:

geeks, virgins, and a host of other things and attractive wasn't one of the main criterias.

Unfortunately a guy who is 350lbs and 5'2 isnt going to land a supermodel type of girl. Unless he pays her to be seen with him.
 

undesputable

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I think its true that theres one big lie, and i think there are a lot small lies, like in everything else. Dont ask me what the lies are, bc altough i have somethings in mind, i havent put much thought in this as to convey them clearly.
 

lynch1000s

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Remember, attraction is based on emotion. If you can emotionally trigger a women's desires, then she'll feel an attraction to you.

It's not any more difficult or simple than that.

These dating books give you a guideline on how to pick up women. They're not meant to turn you into a DJ overnight.
 

MindOverMatter

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Originally posted by Royal Elite
Believing the impossible is possible will get you a lot further then believing the possible is impossible

Seeing the impossible as possible has always proceeded the impossible becoming possible
That sounds really good on paper.

Believing impossible is possible DOES get you a lot further then believing possible is impossible.

Seeing impossible as possibe DOES NOT ALWAYS make it possible.

Yes it's possible for an ugly/fat/bald guy to land a dime. What are his chances tho? very low. how many times can he pull it off? once in a blue moon. no matter how much he believes it's possible, unless that dime is attracted to him, he'll never be given a chance. convincing yourself in your head and believing all women find you attractive does not make them see you as attractive.

The vibe I get from your posts is that if you believe you can win, you can play under bad odds and still win as long as you believe you can. Sorry but life's not that simple. Sometimes you need to change the odds yourself in order to win.

That fat/bald guy is better off improving his appearance, then he is telling himself over and over again that he's a 10, in hopes that if he can believe it, women will too.
 

MindOverMatter

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Originally posted by lynch1000s
Remember, attraction is based on emotion. If you can emotionally trigger a women's desires, then she'll feel an attraction to you.

It's not any more difficult or simple than that.
Bullsh!t. Saying attraction is just based on emotion is like saying football is just based on kicking field goals. It's a part of the game, but it's not the whole deal.

Women are just as superficial as guys, you need to get that in your heads. If she does not find you physically attractive, she will never give you the chance to build emotional attraction with her, her defenses will be up, she wont be into you, and your game will flop.
 

lynch1000s

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Originally posted by MindOverMatter


Women are just as superficial as guys, you need to get that in your heads. If she does not find you physically attractive, she will never give you the chance to build emotional attraction with her, her defenses will be up, she wont be into you, and your game will flop.
Good looks trigger emotions in the females mind. When I say emotion, I don't mean game or personality.

I'm a salesman, and I can tell you this- if you want to make a sale, then you have to get the buyer impulsed in the product that you're selling.

Your goal is to impulse the girl that you're trying to attract. Some girls are impulsed (emotionally) by a guy's looks, some by their personality, some by their sense of humor, some by their smile.

Impulsing a girl is emotionally based. Re- you have to impulse a girl to be attracted to you.

Sorry, but had to clear that up.
 
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