The Beauty and the Beast phenomenen

[Matt Rogers]

I was interested to read the thread about the pasty, overweight guy who scores with lots of hot chicks, and also remembered that the couples I see in the street there are examples of hot chicks with guys who you instantly think, how the hell did he manage to get with her?

I also have a personal interest as I do not look like the typical DJ or masculine stud, and will never attract girls with my looks. A reason why looks are such an insecurity of mine is that I go for looks and presume women do the same. With enough proof that women don't go for just looks I can put this insecurity to rest.

The standard answer is that the man has "game"-lots of confidence, mastery of ****y and funny, charm etc. But I think this is in most cases an oversimplification.

What are the theories that you have as to why this phenomenen happens and state examples of ugly friends with gorgeous girlfriends.

Here are mine:

1) The lonely 10 theory: this theory states that good looking girls while they get a lot of male attention at clubs and bars, it is usually from drunk players and they want to know a guy socially first. The first reasonably sociable guy they meet in their social circles with the balls to ask her out, she will usually say yes to.

2) The male jerk phenomen-good looking guys are in demand and have lots of opportunities and tend to become vain and players. If a girl is looking for a relationship she is more likely to go for an average looking guy who will treat her well and won't stray

3) Other qualities theory-some girls are less interested in looks and more interested in a man's intelligence, sophistication, ambition, and charm. The man may also be a good listener and an interesting speaker.

4) Girls care more about body than face. Perhaps if you are tall and built, girls are turned on despite you being nowhere near pretty. Perhaps this is something to do with liking to be protected.

Any other ideas?

 

[sapphire]

I think there are women who automatically classify good looking guys as players. And since many hot women have had bad experiences with players in their younger years, they go for the average looking guys to settle down with.

 

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, that is definitely a factor for marriage, but I am 20 and interested in girls my own age. Point in case, my dad is anything but hot, and my mother was at least an 8 in her prime and had thousands of guys after her over the years, and she ended up with my dad when he was 40 and she 35.

 

[whistler]

There are surely myriad reasons why you seomtimes see a HB with a guy you deem unattractive... Too many, in fact, to fully explain the phenomenon.

One of my favorite explanations, though, is that the HB doesn't realize she is one. She probably grew up feeling unattractive, and that self-image has carried over into adulthood.

Everyone, HBs included, wants to eventually stay with a guy that is socially impressive. Looks, prestige, money, charisma, and confidence are all ways to be socially impressive. Looks may be the easiest avenue, because a good looking guy is immediately impressive.

If you're really asking if you can meet the expectations of a HB, the answer is yes. Just have a prestigious position, be wealthy, be charismatic, or be confident (or any combination thereof).

If you're really asking if there is a minimum level of attractiveness that a HB will accept in a partner. Well, that's a tough question...

whistler

 

[xblitz44x]

Dude, honestly you need to get over your insecurity and not just patch it up by trying to convince yourself that women don't go for looks. The truth is, they do. But, the good news is that if 5 women think you're ugly, 5 will think you're handsome enough to do. The only thing you have to do is know who you are, be that guy, and go after what you want. If the girl likes you, she'll let you know and just escalate it from there. If she doesn't, she'll shoot you down regardless of your "game".

The sooner you accept yourself for your looks and stop trying to hide behind your own derived theory that helps you temporarily "deal with your uglyness", the sooner you'll be able to feel comfortable in your own skin and make it happen with chicks that already would do you.

 

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah xblitz44, I am trying desperately hard to overcome this insecurity but it has been an issue with me for at least five years now and it is quite hard to do.

By the way, your 5 think u are ugly, 5 would do with you, what is this all about? True beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but with guys most guys will agree within a point or two a girls attractiveness. And of thse 5 who would do you are these girls ugly girls who can't do any better and are settling for you?

 

[Interpol]

I'm not quite sure this "phenomenon" even really exists.

Sure, I've seen HBs with boyfriends who would likely be a few spots below them on the 1-10 scale, like a 9 with a 7, or maybe an 8 with a 5. But I really can't ever remember seeing a hot girl dating a guy who would be considered clearly below average.

The truth is, average looks can get you farther than you realize, but guys who are undeniably ugly almost never bag 7s or up. I think the "Beauty and the Beast phemonenon" is more like a myth that is commonly purported as truth on dating sites like these.

 

[xblitz44x]

It's always in the eye of the beholder. Sure, you can notice a girl who is "hot" by society's "standard", but there are many girls that you see, who just have that *something* about them. They might not be drop dead gorgeous, or smoking hot, but they are "cute". Maybe your friends don't agree, but it doesn't change your mind. You are that guy.

A group of girls might see you, 5 might think you're not attractive, and 1 might. Or 1 might think you're not attractive, but 5 might. All you can do is go in there and be who you truely are inside. Unplug yourself from giving a fvck what they think about you, or what you say and let it rip. Bust on yourself, bust on them, let it flow naturally. And the ones who are attracted to you will let you know it if you're paying attention.

 

[xblitz44x]

"And of thse 5 who would do you are these girls ugly girls who can't do any better and are settling for you?"

By the way, this is a direct focus comment basically spelling out what you think of yourself. Maybe you don't think hot girls like you because you count them out immediately and assume that the only ones who do, are the ones who "can't do any better"...because you're presuming that you're the bottom of the barrel.

 

[whistler]

Matt,

Keep talking about your insecurity. You might get a lot of comments that tell you to just get past it. But you'll also get comments that put your insecurity in perspective, and those should help you deal with your problems.

 

[ScrewIt]

i think in the case of "beauty and the beast" will only qualify if the ugly dude is a rich bastard...thats an exceptional case.

 

[Matt Rogers]

Thanks whistler. I feel bad about whining and *****ing about it, but it definitely holds me back and stops me being the best I can.

xblitz44 right on about the direct focus comment. I guess for various reasons (shyness, acne, all boys school) I have never got a lot of attention from girls-even ugly ones, so I find it hard to believe that hot girls will go for me. I had a few dates with a 9 and screwed it up because I was so damn insecure that I kind of went a bit crazy at every sign that she was not 100% into me and acted very needy. I had a 5 go pretty crazy over me a year ago, but other than that no girls who have been obviously into me.

By the way your attitude of not giving a damn and just putting on the moves is what I am doing basically, but at the back of my mind there is always this insecurity of she is out of my league and what does she see in me.

I do not know how others judge me and it is likely that I am very harsh on my looks, but I am probably around a 4 or 5 facially and my body (athletic and built) and height (6 foot 1) probably raises me a notch or two.

 

[JT47319]

Only very rarely do you see those kind of lop-sided couples. Most people marry people very similar to them in looks, economic status, race, religion, etc. And THAT's a statistical fact.

When people notice these lop-sided couples, it stands out in their mind, but they fail to notice for each of those couples, there are another 10 couples who are both on similar physical scales.

It's certainly POSSIBLE, but those are the EXCEPTION rather than the rule. And in order to BE the exception, you Need GAME.

 

[huge_guy_pimpin]

Originally posted by Matt Rogers


4) Girls care more about body than face. Perhaps if you are tall and built, girls are turned on despite you being nowhere near pretty. Perhaps this is something to do with liking to be protected.

Any other ideas?

DID YOU JUST SAY IM NOT PRETTY.

 

[Fatality]

Originally posted by JT47319
Only very rarely do you see those kind of lop-sided couples. Most people marry people very similar to them in looks, economic status, race, religion, etc. And THAT's a statistical fact.

That sounds true except for the looks part. I look at the engagements in the newspaper everyday and there is never a real goodlooking guy that is engaged to an average to ugly looking woman but there are plenty of hot women that are engaged to guys that are marrying out of their league based on looks. I ALWAYS SEE LOP-SIDED COUPLES! I see hot chicks marrying and dating fat and ugly guys every bit as much as I see a couple where both are good looking. The only thing I hardly ever see is girls dating or marrying shorter guys than them.

 

[ScrewIt]

Originally posted by Fatality
That sounds true except for the looks part. I look at the engagements in the newspaper everyday and there is never a real goodlooking guy that is engaged to an average to ugly looking woman but there are plenty of hot women that are engaged to guys that are marrying out of their league based on looks. I ALWAYS SEE LOP-SIDED COUPLES! I see hot chicks marrying and dating fat and ugly guys every bit as much as I see a couple where both are good looking. The only thing I hardly ever see is girls dating or marrying shorter guys than them.

probably what those guys have is $$ and offer them LTR material.

I cant say i disagree with you, in a lot of neighborhoods, i've seen a lot of average looking guys holding hands with their hot gf's.

it really indeed boggles the mind!

 

[Fatality]

Originally posted by ScrewIt
probably what those guys have is $$ and offer them LTR material.

I cant say i disagree with you, in a lot of neighborhoods, i've seen a lot of average looking guys holding hands with their hot gf's.

it really indeed boggles the mind!

It's just proof that looks are not even close to being the most important quality they look for in a man. Maybe looks are very important for a one night stand type of thing but not for a relationship.

 

[showtime17]

Originally posted by Fatality
The only thing I hardly ever see is girls dating or marrying shorter guys than them.

I see that all the time. I've been beaten to chicks by guys that are shorter than the chick and really ugly. (the chicks were usually going out with these dudes before i met them) i wanted to go out with this cute chick about 5'6 (HB7) or something, but then i found out that she was going out with some dude that was shorter than her!! another chick went out with a dude who looked like jesus on drugs. i see this type of stuff all the time. i dont really think chicks go for looks that much.
i am decent looking, but cant get none, while ugly guys get hot chicks.
well gotta work on my game. hopefully next semester, my last, my skills will improve....

 

[whistler]

Statistically, less than 1% of women marry a man that is shorter than them.

Dating may be another issue. But marriage is a behavior that speaks volumes.

 

[JT47319]

Originally posted by whistler
Statistically, less than 1% of women marry a man that is shorter than them.

Dating may be another issue. But marriage is a behavior that speaks volumes.

Exactly. It just stands out in people's mind when they see something so "different" that they think it's somehow the "norm." Beautiful people rarely get with ugly people, etc.

I'm not going to coddle anyone by spouting off meaningless platitudes that hotties, as a majority or even a large minority, get with "beasts." That's just a nice little fantasy supported by Disney movies, trashy romance novels, and angst ridden teenage coming of age movies that flies in the face of true statistical fact and empirical observation.

I mean, hell, I'm 5"7 and at least HALF the girls I've dated/laid were taller than me. Does that make me the rule? Of course not, I'm the exception.

And how, as an average looking PUA of average height get with an tall, exotic beauty? Through Game. And how does one get Game? Through constant field work, socializing, interaction, and becoming socially calibrated to people around them.