The Art of Seduction Book Study

[BlackJackal]

We are on The Star

The last of the characters before we get into actually tactics!

Thats what I've been waiting for since forever.

 

[FoolsCause]

I haven't read the Star chapter since last year. It seems the most common situation for most people to experience the Star is athletics, especially in high school. Alot of high school boys get pvssy simply by being the quarterback, or pitcher or such. Other than that, I guess be a Hollywood actor.

 

[Reyaj]

I've been busy with my approach journal so I haven't had a chance to read/analyze this chapter. I hope to soon. If anyone else wants to post analysis please do.

FoolsCause you are absolutely right with that high school sports star analysis. Those dudes really could have just about any girl they want.

 

[Reyaj]

If anyone can apply this chapter to real life in their own experiences that would be great too.

 

[DavenJuan]

just purchased this book over the weekend. hopefully some of you are still reading this book.

the approach that robert greene takes and relates his theories to past characters is a bit different.

has this book opened you up at all? do you see things in a different perspective?

 

[Reyaj]

Daven read all the characters and post your thoughts/real life experiences as it relates to the content

We are currently on the star. I still haven't gotten a chance to read this as I've been busy with my approach journal among other things. Still I hope to post my feedback soon.

 

[BlackJackal]

just purchased this book over the weekend. hopefully some of you are still reading this book.

the approach that robert greene takes and relates his theories to past characters is a bit different.

has this book opened you up at all? do you see things in a different perspective?

It has changed my perspective alot. Though not as much as the power book.

 

[Microphone Fiend]

back home, will post my feedback on the star eventually after rereading the chapter

 

[Reyaj]

Ok I have had so much going on but I finally got around to reading this section. I think the main message Greene tries to get across is that stars or in today's society actors are imagined to be more than what they appear by the viewer. Take guys like Justin Timberlake and such.... girls tend to think they are larger than life by their own imagination of their elevation. The fact is he takes a **** just like all of us do

The Fetishtic Star example describes Marlene Dietrich as using a blank face to let others imagine what they want in her. I can't really apply this to real life currently though... as whenever I've looked stoic it never has caused any attraction. When I smile and am happy I have had more success....

The Mythic Star example of John Kennedy is pretty good. It describes attraction in dealing with feelings or myth focusing on positive emotions. I think this is key as I think many people on this board get caught up in running canned routines and lose sight of overall seduction goals like this.

Unfortunately I can't really think of many personal experiences I can relate to this chapter.

Can anyone else make this chapter clear as it pertains to present day seduction?

 

[thedeparted]

Haven't read the book in awhile. But this may be an example of a fetishistic star:

In high school I was unknown. Very shy. Quiet. But I was on a mission to get into a top school. I was quietly collecting the grades, awards, leadership positions, scores, etc.

By senior year, it paid off. I got all the scholarship offers. Word got around. People realized I was the guy who "made it". I was going to Harvard. Yale. Wherever I wanted. But they didn't know me. Or anything about me.

The result is that there were crazy rumors. Some thought I was a genius. Others thought I was rich. One story had it I played chess at an international level. Everyone saw in me their own idea of the Harvard man. Random women approached me in the parking lot. The QB's gf suddenly knew my name. It was unbelievable.

Basically, I was the "star" -- I got the ride that everyone secretly wanted. And they projected all their fantasies onto me. That year I had a half-dozen women to choose from, and that's not counting the MILFS and the teachers who suddenly needed their computers fixed ;-)

 

[Reyaj]

Haven't read the book in awhile. But this may be an example of a fetishistic star:

In high school I was unknown. Very shy. Quiet. But I was on a mission to get into a top school. I was quietly collecting the grades, awards, leadership positions, scores, etc.

By senior year, it paid off. I got all the scholarship offers. Word got around. People realized I was the guy who "made it". I was going to Harvard. Yale. Wherever I wanted. But they didn't know me. Or anything about me.

The result is that there were crazy rumors. Some thought I was a genius. Others thought I was rich. One story had it I played chess at an international level. Everyone saw in me their own idea of the Harvard man. Random women approached me in the parking lot. The QB's gf suddenly knew my name. It was unbelievable.

Basically, I was the "star" -- I got the ride that everyone secretly wanted. And they projected all their fantasies onto me. That year I had a half-dozen women to choose from, and that's not counting the MILFS and the teachers who suddenly needed their computers fixed ;-)

Thats a very good example Departed. Did you keep a blank face and let people imagine what they wanted or did you try and conform it to their beliefs about you? Good stuf!

 

[thedeparted]

Back then I never smiled. I was pretty much withdrawn. I don't recommend this approach but it's how I was and that's what happened.

 

[Reyaj]

Ok it doesn't seem like there is much more to say about the star. Lets now go onto the topics which I think are more pertinent and useful in our seduction endeavours which are tactics. Next section is the "Anti Seducer"

Lets start reading!

 

[Reyaj]

bump

 

[Quiksilver]

This is a fascinating discussion for anyone who cares to read from the beginning.

The thread is packing its bags and moving to the Archive guys!

 

[Microphone Fiend]

^^^Nice moderating.

Anyways Im going to touch on some of the great discussions I missed and bring myself up to date in the book.

CHARMER​

The suave Charmer method is not favored on SoSuave. Don't put the pvsy on a pedestal. The Charmer studies from afar and chooses a target that has doubts about herself, unrealized potential, and gives her recognition for what she wants to be, perhaps gives her flowers or chocolates if that's what will make her day. He uses seductive words to arouse a romance-novel feeling in her. He'll listen to her. He'll adjust his approach, like a chameleon, in accordance with the victim's "type" (discussed in Greene's book).

Amen. Couldn't have put it beter myself. The oldschool SS-heads perhaps were more Charmer oriented but currently, the focus is not on chasing a female but baiting a female and getting her to chase you. Neither are better/worse; just two different camps.

The problem with the Charmer is that it necessitates a guy already having killed his inner AFC and is confident enough to know when to push and pull it. Most women in this era are already used to the behaviors of a Charmer being associated with the Nice Guy, so when you read the biographies describing this seduction type bear in mind they happened long before the sexual revolution.

I agree. A lot of AFC by default attempt to be charming but because the idea of a charming nice guy is rampant in the media it has lost its charm so to speak. I think the reason that the charmer has dropped off the seduction radar is because it has become cliched. It is in effect romanticism when we are in a post-modern world. However post modernism denatures everything and we have to rebuild are beliefs and ideals so I can see neo-romantic ideals such as Charmers coming back in the near future definitely.

The Charmer understands his victims' psychology. Also, he's agreeable and doesn't neg-hit her. The Charmer has a short expiration date, and when the bubble bursts and his charms wear off, she goes looking elsewhere. It's best used for ONS and STRs. Casanova would keep his contact short and sweet then move on to the next victim before reality set in.

Yea, one of my favourite quotes about the charmer is on p85, stating that

'...it is hard to be angry or defensive with someone who seems to agree with your opinions and tastes. Charmers may appear to be weaker than their targets but in the end they are the more powerful side because they have stolen the ability to resist

The problem with a charmer is that at a glance the person looks like they are not in control, so in order to be a successful Charmer you have to ignore what other seducers think of you and focus on your target. You WILL look like a whipped AFC to others in the game but as long as you know you are in control, its a wrap.

Also, I agree that it would be much harder to be a Charmer in a LTR. I think it is possible to keep one person in the trance, but when you have friends and family who see your affect on her, you have to add them to the list of people you charm for the risk of being outed by them.

I think the important thing to take from this chapter is that of having good energry and being positive. Using flattery in a timely manner. One thing he says that I'm not clear on is

"You should adapt to the victim's moods"

So if he says you should be positive and happy... is he now saying you should be down and depressed if your target is?

If someone can explain the mirroring aspect of this it would be appreciated....

I think you keep the same mood to them in a degree at least. Of course you want to make them every target happy, but it depends were their happiness comes from. If you meet someone who enjoys looking at the word pessimistically like a gothic chick, or the female lead, Marla Singer from the movie 'Fight Club'; trying to make her happy with an upbeat attitude would be counter-productive in this instance. OTOH if it is a regular girl having a sh!tty day, being upbeat and reassuring that things will turn out okay can go a veeeerrrry long way. I think you have to evaluate each circumstance and react accordingly.

 

[Microphone Fiend]

No, the book isn't a novel, he just uses examples from famous seducer's of the past to illustrate his points.

It's far more subtle and nuanced than being a glorified pick-up book. At heart, I think, (coupled with the 48 laws of power) the book is really a discourse on human nature and behaviour. As he says near the start, you can't seduce a happy person. It seems to me his main point, the starting point for seduction is need. In other words, you can't seduce someone who wants for nothing. Seduction is predicated on need, it's about satisfying the need of the the target. In fact, I think you could go as far as to say that he considers this to be the primary paradigm of human relationships. i.e. we gravitate towards those and build relationships with those who fulfill some sort of need we have.

I agree with all of this. Indifference is the cardinal sin concering relationships. As a seducer you have to find that weakness or at the least, create it via doubt.

The other sense I get about the book is that Greene believes that successfull seducers can take their ego out of the situation so that they can analyse the situation and be rational about it. The problem with emotion is that it clouds judgement according to him and you always need to be in a position to judge accurately if you want to be a successfull seducer. You might be able to leap from here to saying that men are perhaps more naturally dispositioned to be seducers because they can check their emotions more easily than women and act against what they feel much more easily than women but that is somewhat controversial. Interesting discussion there I reckon.

I agree here too. The best way to get what you want from someone is to understand how they think? You, as a person, do not factor into the equation. I believe that letting go of your ego takes a combination of time and success. Most people encounter it after feelings of satiety with life, for example, that joke about how men think the most logically after they have orgasmed. Once we are getting what we want, we don't let our emotions get in the way and as a result can put more emphasis on the 'other'. The problem lies in making yourself content with who you are. It is a catch-22 because the two are often intertwined; you might have to achieve one in order to attain the other.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Robert Greene talks about the PUA community

I agree with all of this. Indifference is the cardinal sin concering relationships. As a seducer you have to find that weakness or at the least, create it via doubt.

I agree here too. The best way to get what you want from someone is to understand how they think? You, as a person, do not factor into the equation. I believe that letting go of your ego takes a combination of time and success. Most people encounter it after feelings of satiety with life, for example, that joke about how men think the most logically after they have orgasmed. Once we are getting what we want, we don't let our emotions get in the way and as a result can put more emphasis on the 'other'. The problem lies in making yourself content with who you are. It is a catch-22 because the two are often intertwined; you might have to achieve one in order to attain the other.

MF and Ripper, you´re both right. I came across RG website where he talks about The Game (from Neil Strauss). This is what he says:

Tucker Max: The Art of Seduction is very popular among the Pick-Up Artist (PUA) community, and was mentioned prominently in Neil Strauss' book, "The Game." What do you think of the PUA community?

Robert Greene: I don't have any beef with them, I don't know them that well so its maybe not for me to say. I know that there's a lot of stuff in the NLP [ed note: neuro-linguistic programming, a style of seduction invented by Ross Jeffries] world that are kind of the source or foundation for the Pickup artist world. I think there's a lot of interesting things in NLP, a lot of truth to it but what sometimes bothers me a little bit isn't so much what the original thinkers of NLP were coming up with, but how its used. It becomes really formulaic, almost in a clichéd way, where there are these buzz words, this A B and C business and you just have to learn these techniques and go out and apply them and its really kind of mechanical and not strategic or creative. I find that really uninteresting. To be a real seducer, a great seducer, you have to have a flow, a style that is your own. You can take ideas and suggestions from books, but you have to think in the moment. A pickup artist can a get a girl in a bar to sleep with him, but then what? I am interested in power, in making people fall in love with you, in having the capacity to influence and change their behavior. A different approach.

Source: http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/archives/the_robert_gree_2.phtml

 

[Reyaj]

Microphone glad you got back and posted on here. Your analysis is always enlightening and even profound to me at times.

We are now on the section of the book that I think is the most significant to being a PUA/DJ etc... which is more of tactics. The first part is the anti-seducer which we should read and apply our thoughts and real world experiences. I'm sure we will all have a lot to relate with here.

Just off the bat in response to what you responded to me. How would you go about seducing a "Marla Singer" type? Cause I have no clue with these girls....

 

[Microphone Fiend]

Just off the bat in response to what you responded to me. How would you go about seducing a "Marla Singer" type? Cause I have no clue with these girls....

I have not had any attempts at seducing a chick that was a downer, but my guess would be to focus on their outlook/philosophy on life first and their current emotion second. If the women is pessimistic, talk to her in a way that allows her to be pessimistic

Anti Seducer​

Man this section hit hard for me. A little in the beginning but the stories that followed were really showing flaws that I have been guilty of. Concerning not paying enough attention in the first story, my favorite quote was

In the process of seduction you may have to pull back at times, subjecting your target to moments of doubt. But prolonged inattention will not only break the spell, it can create hatred

Although I think that the hatred is just loosely veiled attraction that can be manipulated (see: All of Sunny D's threads) there is a point where the inattention leads to hatred and you have to put in a little extra in order to get back to where you once were. Plus the residue of the hatred will always be there imo.

In the second story, this one hit me the hardest. For those that read my approach journal they probably recognized my cavemanning and boundary pushing in the club that lead to short term success but tons of flaking. Many of my successes in the club arose from less kino (still kino nonetheless) and more talking/getting to know her. I agree with the statement that "haste degrees not the depth of your feelings but the degree of your self-absorption". I always had my interest at hand when I grope the girls but when we are talking, the only way I know how to do it is to make her the center of attention.

The third story, about hesitation is basic seduction. Strike while the iron is hot. The quote I liked the best was that

His hesitation shows that he is thinking of himself, not of her...

When you get caught up on your insecurities you can’t focus on the target which is why you, as a person, should not factor into the seduction equation

The fourth story does not really apply to anything I have witnessed/done before so no comment there

The quote in the fifth story I liked the most was

if you are looking for something other than pleasure - for money, for power - never show it. The suspicion of an ulterior motive is anti-seduction

The 6th story was not real interesting/relevant to me.


The overall message I got from each Anti-Seduction story was to keep the focus on the target. Things tend to unravel when you are lost in your thoughts and