Tests

[PEACEDJ]

Well to all of your questions.. what do you consider a good answer from men? and just maybe the guy put you on a test and well you do sucky on his and he does good on yours? what happens next?

 

[glowstix]

nice

nice post VBG

 

[VeryBadGirl]

Originally posted by PEACEDJ
Well to all of your questions.. what do you consider a good answer from men? and just maybe the guy put you on a test and well you do sucky on his and he does good on yours? what happens next?

Well, for me, those tests I posted in my original post are "make or break" tests. There are other tests that a guy can fail and I'll still date him. Because everyone has flaws, no one is perfect and no two people can have 100% of the same interests. All I am looking for is some key areas where we are compatible.

So, I don't date conservatives, so if a guy is spouting the wonders of the Bush family when I bring up politics, we are not going to work.

I need to date guys who read. When I ask him about books he's reading and he blanks, not good.

If he says something like "Isn't that my job?" when I ask him out, that is bad.

If he gives me a crazy look when I say something weird, not good.

If he says that kids are brats and he never wants anything, not good.

If he hates drinking and thinks people who smoke an occasional joint are evil, bye bye.

If he and my friends don't get along, not good. (This one I usually give a few tries if everything else is good)

If he cheated on his last girlfriend, has never been in a relationship before, etc., not good.



If he passes all my tests and I don't pass his, the usual happens. He says something like "Sorry, I don't think this is going to work out" and I move on. The same thing would happen if the situations were reversed.

 

[GirlCrazy]

And the number one test women fear the most:

*Survey says*

Meeting HIS mother.

 

[USSOCOM]

VBG, besides personal prefferences what your saying is, you want a guy who knows how to be a guy without douting himself. So really his answers to your tests don't really matter as long he is confident in himself, personal prefferences aside of course.

 

[cynetix]

Originally posted by GirlCrazy
Who said this is some sort of contest to be won or lost? When we understand life, of which dating is just one aspect, we all win.

Dating is not the contest of which I wrote. Argument is. We all benefit from this site by learning.

USSOCOM said that he doesn't administer tests because men don't play games. Good for USSOCOM!

You didn't really agree with this though. Your points of contention can be summarized into two parts:

1. [GirlCrazy paraphrased] Playing the game of testing is a good way to screen potentials, and success in life requires playing this game, or "you get played."

2. [GirlCrazy paraphrased] USSOCOM, you are testing, you just don't realize it, because everybody has a filtering process.

Neither of these points are valid counterargument.

1. The "play the game or you get played" dichotomy is false. You need not administer tests to be successful in the dating world. Tests are one way of checking for degree of compatibility, as VBG has shown, but hardly the only way.

Personally I don't like using the technique of testing (not even VBG's "good" tests) because I feel there are more natural ways to find out about the girl. If incompatibilities arise, they do so on their own without my prodding.

NOT testing does not mean you "get played." In fact I think it's better.

2. As stated in the previous reply of mine, filtering process (which is inherent) does not entail testing.

You said everyone has a filtering process. But your assertion is self-evident. There's nothing wrong with self-evident statements; it's good that you have pointed out that everyone has a filtering process. But just because everyone must, by necessity, have a filtering process, whether spoken or not, does not mean that the process involves any testing. That is all.

USSOCOM's comment that he doesn't use any tests doesn't deserve the dilution of your counterstatements.

When I say I don't test women, I really don't. (At least not anymore.) I don't test in the sense VBG says it. No amount of redefinition on your part which would stay relevant to this post can alter that.

I'm not here looking for any kind of validation. However it's still my opinion that most relationships, whether they be friendship, dating, or business have a high degree of commonality. It's been my experience that successful people are successful in all aspects of their lives and their relationships to other people - not just business or dating or whatever. The people I look up to could approach anybody for any reason and cultivate any relationship at any time. I've seen many people use love and sex to their business advantage. You obviously don't agree and that's fine. But just because you don't agree doesn't mean I haven't said anything meaningful.

In the previous post I offered a scenario in which success with the business interview did not immediately translate into success with dating. It's perfectly fine for you to continue holding the opinion that the two are congruous worlds that can be compared like analogies. We can compromise: you can probably agree that the two might have huge differences, and I can probably agree that the two have great similarities.

That I said you haven't said anything meaningful was a little over the top. What I really meant to say is that your offering of the business world as an analogy does not support your claim because the analogy itself has too many problems. Therefore, your claim--that everyone, including USSOCOM, is really testing (or must be, if he does not want to "get played")--has no valid argumentative backing and is therefore quite meaningless.

Gotta run; I'll reply to your second half later. It'll be a lot less dry because we'll be talking about passion...whee!

cynetix

 

[Umbra]

Good thread so far. Bookmarking for future reference. Thanks. Will read and respond later perhaps.

 

[Ronin I]

Hey VBG -

I need to date guys who read. When I ask him about books he's reading and he blanks, not good.

What's the big hang up on books? Why is this a make or break test?

I'm a business school student - I read the Wall Street Journal and have my nose in my textbooks all the time. I have neither the time nor the inclination to pick up another book.

Does this mean we couldn't date

Just curious. Seems like kind of a silly test to me.

 

[USSOCOM]

Cynetix....... HOAHH! glad to see someone's got my back, I stopped responding because I remembered girls don't know what logical thinking is Thanks Bro..

 

[GirlCrazy]

No amount of redefinition on your part which would stay relevant to this post can alter that.

Agreed. Senseless rehashing of our points wouldn't be productive. We will likely never agree on this issue. Part of what I find so refreshing about this board is the differing opinions here. There are no bandwagons here to jump on.

*offers a handshake to cynetix and USSOCOM*

I'm outta this thread, peace!

 

[cynetix]

(continued from previous)

Originally posted by GirlCrazy
Just because you are unaware that an "interview" is taking place, does not mean that you aren't actually being interviewed. What's so wrong about "interviewing the interviewer"?

It is totally possible that a girl is testing me without my knowing it...this has happened before ...but if I am aware of it, and feeling hip, I may call her on her tests. Like if I think a particular test or what it's designed to find out is kinda cute, I might say with a grin, "Wait OK, what would be the absolute BEST answer to that question?" (to AFCs: do NOT ask a girl something like "How should I answer that?" with serious intent, all nervous and shìt! If you do you will kill the conversation!) The girl might then be really hip too, and tell me some detail about her "ideal mate" which is good rapport-establishing stuff (I particularly like the topic since it presents a lot of opportunity for humor). She might not answer the question; she might give up trying to give the test; she could end up thinking I'm annoying for taking that tack. All these scenarios are GOOD.

And what's wrong with having passion about all aspects or our lives, including work?

You take an emotional risk potentionally with all human interactions. You've never seen a friend angry or upset that he / she didn't land that dream job? I have plenty of times, and the sense of rejection from the person struck me as being very similiar to romantic rejection.

Nothing at all! Passion makes the world go 'round.

I personally do not place as much emotional investment into a job interview (pretty much none) as I do with women (a little, depending on the girl, I admit!). Since I hope to impart advice in this current post, I tread on thin ice here because a guy shouldn't really "invest" much emotionally when approaching women, or when casually dating them, etc....not in the sense that if she demonstrates a lack of interest one will take it personally and feel hurt.

This raises an interesting issue. Perhaps the emotional detachment that DJs advocate for beginning rAFCs can be likened to "as if you are applying for a job." This might be problematic in most other respects, because the focus really should be on FUN, not worrying about silly things like that, but maybe there is something there...

On the contrary, the test was unspoken, but the filtering process was still there. I like friendly outgoing people and my date was pouty and kept complaining. I don't like pouty women. I didn't need to ask my friend why his date didn't pass the filtering process either, I could see it in his face. Just because the test isn't a standardized mutliple choice type doesn't mean we don't all have a filtering process in all our dealings with others. Again I stick to my opinion that we all have a filtering process.

This was addressed in the previous post .

cynetix

 

[VeryBadGirl]

Originally posted by USSOCOM
VBG, besides personal prefferences what your saying is, you want a guy who knows how to be a guy without douting himself. So really his answers to your tests don't really matter as long he is confident in himself, personal prefferences aside of course.

Actually USSCOM, you are not getting it. The answers matter a lot. I want to date a guy who has X, Y and Z qualities. If he doesn't have those, he can be the most confident guy in the world and I still don't want anything serious with him.

For example, before I started dating my boyfriend I met a guy a a friend's party. He seemed interesting, fun and nice, we chatted and he passed the book test and the conservative test. (He did read and was a democrat.)

He asked me out, and on our first date, I mentioned marijuana. He looked at me like I had just said I was addicted to crack and told me "I don't DO drugs."

Not wanting to get into a debate with some guy I barely knew, I continued to be cordial throughout that date, paid my half and left. I called him the next day and told him it wasn't going to work out. Because in reality, it wasn't, I with all the guys in the world, I don't need to waste my time with someone that isn't what I want in a guy.

As far as the "book test" goes, textbooks count. I mean, when I was in school I didn't have any time to read for fun because I had so much other reading to do. And, reading the newspaper get you a big gold star as well. Basically, the reason for that test is that I want to be able to give my BF a book for Xmas that I think he will love and actually have him read it. I don't want to date someone that only plays playstation and watches TV as forms of entertainment. (Not that I don't like those things as well, but I like a balance)

In understand that there are other ways of checking for compatibility other than tests. These just work for me because there are a lot of guys out there and I would rather just find some key things out early-on. As long as you are looking out for compatibilty in some form - unfortunetly, some people get so caught up in looks that they don't look for it.

 

[USSOCOM]

Oh, I see.

 

[cynetix]

Originally posted by VeryBadGirl
In understand that there are other ways of checking for compatibility other than tests. These just work for me because there are a lot of guys out there and I would rather just find some key things out early-on. As long as you are looking out for compatibilty in some form - unfortunetly, some people get so caught up in looks that they don't look for it.

Your point illustrates a key difference between us--which I suspect is based on both gender and our age difference. Age difference is important for two reasons: 1) potentials for you have had time for a lot more baggage, and 2) the girls I meet tend to be in school, increasing the chance for more intellectual-ness.

Back to the key difference...

I don't care, for example, if a girl is a republican or a democrat.

It also doesn't matter if a girl reads a lot. Rather, it doesn't matter if a girl has to say "YES" if I ask her whether she reads. It is really obvious whether a girl is into intellectual endeavors just by mere conversation. It doesn't require my questioning.

Which brings up another problem with tests. What if she would like to read a lot, but doesn't read because she's really busy? If I asked her if she reads, and what she reads, and she says she hasn't read anything in a long time but means to get around to it, what should I think? Has she passed the test because she means to get around to it? Has she failed because she seems to be making up excuses?

Testing introduces an additional level of abstraction in the dating process. It can be confusing, misleading, and this is why I say not testing is much better and more natural.

It is very important that the girl I'm with be funny, smart, creative, fun, beautiful, etc....and these are strict requirements, mind you. It is not important HOW she goes about meeting my criteria to the point where I need to be questioning her about them.

The closest I can think of as an exception to this rule is smoking. Chicks who pull out cigarettes are an instant turn-off to me. I'm not sure why it's such a huge turn-off, but I think cigarettes are nasty and the girls who smell like them are even nastier. But on no occasion will you catch me asking a girl if she smokes. There's no need to.

This begs the question: So cynetix, what if she only smokes occasionally and it's not until you're laying in bed with her after you've had sex after a really fun date that she pulls out a cigarette? Will you be repulsed and tell her to leave and never see her again?

And that illustrates the key difference between us, because I might have to admit to myself that I might be okay with smoking in this instance.

Because you see, it's not that I have "I SHALL NOT DATE A SMOKER" embedded in my dating philosophy. I find it problematic that you, VBG, have "I SHALL NOT DATE A CONSERVATIVE" and that Wyldfire has "I SHALL NOT DATE AN UNCIRCUMSIZED MALE" embedded into your dating philosophies.

I can't argue against you guys saying it's not right to have such things in mind when looking for mates, because it seems to work for you. But it does seem awfully prejudiced, not to mention it very likely demonstrates a fundamental neglect of the intricacies of human nature, a lack in understanding how you yourselves work.

cynetix

 

[Ubermensch]

I may not test, but I can understand...

Why someone looking strictly for a *relationship* -- as opposed to just a good time -- might do so to override the *attraction* they feel for a person they think would be *incompatible* (e.g., someone with incompatible politics).

My approach is along the lines of Cynetix's. Incompatibility will make itself abundantly clear without having to force its hand. If gals do any "bad tests" (e.g., intentional disrespect), chances are they will weed out themselves.

Like a gal I recently went out with threw a fit when I wouldn't let her drive home drunk. I don't think she was testing me: just being foolish and reckless. It was a major pain in the ass, so that was it for her. No need for any contrived test to find that one out.

 

[SoSuave.com]

Moving this to The Archive.

 

[I_Only_Live_Once]

Interesting tests.

 

[far from average]

I think you guys are misinterpreting VBG. She's just checking on things that are important for long-term compatibility. You guys do the same thing, but it's accomplished with a glance. "Nice tits? Check. Nice ass? Check. Pretty face? Check."

After that most guys just watch for red flags. She actually flushes out the red flags. Just speeds up the process.

I don't think of that as testing, really. I think of testing as the things you described in the first part of your post, that crazy girls do.

 

[komplex]

This thread is HOT FIRE! Thanks VeryBadGirl for reminding us the tests that women give.

Btw, your "good tests" are no better than the "bad tests" you so accuse other women of doing. (that was probably a test all in itself).

Alright gentlemen, let's come up with some good answers. Remember like VeryBadGirl said, some yes's and no's can break you, so the key here is to answer each question indirectly (using C&F of course). Feel free to comment/critique on my answers. It makes us all better Dj's.

Here's what I say when those situations come up.

1) The "blatently flirting with another guy in front of you test"

Me: *pulls over to another person* Hey look there goes that girl trying to make me jealous again.

2) The "getting mad at you for no reason to see how you react test"

Me: Whoa, did a gerbil bite you in the ass or something? relax

or

Me: If you keep behaving like such a brat, I'm going to have to break up with you.

3) The "yelling at you for checking out another girl to see how you react test"

Me: So you want to have her all to yourself huh? You 2 should get together.

4) The "canceling a date for no reason test"

Me: Alright. Your choice, but keep in mind you'll never see my hot ass again.

***usually they'll start changing their tune by now.

5) The "getting you really horny while making out but then saying no test to see if you really "respect" me"

Me: *stops kissing* I respect girls that don't ask a lot of questions. *starts smelling her neck slowly and softly*

1) The "are you a crazy conservative test" (Because I don't date conservatives)

Me: Yeah, gas and electric bills are outrageous these days.

2) The "do you actually read books test" (Because I don't date guys that don't read)

Me: No
Her: I don't date guys that read
Me: I don't date girls with big ears.

OR

Me: Do you actually date nerds?

3) The "are you going to freak out if I ask you out test" (some guys really like to be in control and don't deal well with a woman asking them out)

Me: Nah, it's your job to ask me out, wine me and dine me before I put out anyway. *cheers to Fingers for that one*

4) The " no inner monologue test" - This one might need explaining. At some point during the first few dates, I blurt something totally weird or innapropriate out - not always on purpose, I just often have no inner monolougue, so I say things like "Wow, I really want to kiss you" or "Have you ever noticed that the word "plate" has a lot of different meanings" or something else really weird. This often proves to be a key test - can they handle my weird indiosycracies and the fact that I most often just say whatever come into my head.

For "Wow, I really want to kiss you"

Me: Hold your horses, partner. I don't even know if you're a good hand-holder yet.

For.. everything else random:

Me: Think before you speak. If it sounds funny in your head..... don't say it out loud. *cheers to my boy Josh for that one*

*side-note* Sometimes I blurt out random stuff too, not as a test.. only if the conversation is headed down a wrong direction.

(example)

Her: Are you a conservative?
Me: Have you ever noticed that Jlo and Prince look a like?

5) The "kid test" where I gauge how he feels about children and having them - don't want to get serious with a guy that doesn't want any.

Her: How do you feel about having kids?
Me: I give up on a poop after 20 minutes, there's no way I'm going to give birth to a kid. *cheers to Larry the Cable Guy*

6) The "MJ/other drugs test" to make sure he is on the same casual user track as I am.

Her: You do mary J?
Me: Nah, is she a good lover?

Her: Do you do drugs?
Me: *imitates Towlie* Wanna get high?

*sidenote* If she tries to pester me with that question, I'll change the subject to Southpark.

Her: no for real, do you?
Me: you ever watch Southpark? that Towlie guy cracks me up.

If she keeps up..

then I'll finally throw my hands up in despair (as a joke) and say

Me: YEAH.. exlax!

7) The "meet my friends test." This is important because my friends are very important to me and some of them are men, which some guys can't handle.

*note* Oh man i love this test! When women do this to me, I'll talk to their friends to get some ammo on the girl to use in my next tease sessions.

Like for example this girl had me meet her friends...

Me: you know I admire that my girl is a vegetarian.
Her friend: lol yeah right she was eating a McDonalds yesterday.
Me: Oh really? She said she didn't wanna harm the cute little, furry animals.
Her friend: nahhh she's probably trying to impress you.

8) The "past relationship test" is also an important one for later - is he capable of committment? Has he cheated in the past? is he still pining over his high school girlfriend? (Sometimes this happens earlier on as well)

Her: so how long was your longest relationship?
Me: *states my age*
Her: lol, Damn, liar.
Me: yeah my mom had me 19 years ago, and I'm still her son.

*this one usually leads to this*

Her: how sweet... so how's your relationship with your mom?
Me: good and i have nice teeth and nice shoes to top it off.



----

Alright that was fun. Later guys.

 

[komplex]

Your point illustrates a key difference between us--which I suspect is based on both gender and our age difference. Age difference is important for two reasons: 1) potentials for you have had time for a lot more baggage, and 2) the girls I meet tend to be in school, increasing the chance for more intellectual-ness.

Back to the key difference...

I don't care, for example, if a girl is a republican or a democrat.

It also doesn't matter if a girl reads a lot. Rather, it doesn't matter if a girl has to say "YES" if I ask her whether she reads. It is really obvious whether a girl is into intellectual endeavors just by mere conversation. It doesn't require my questioning.

Which brings up another problem with tests. What if she would like to read a lot, but doesn't read because she's really busy? If I asked her if she reads, and what she reads, and she says she hasn't read anything in a long time but means to get around to it, what should I think? Has she passed the test because she means to get around to it? Has she failed because she seems to be making up excuses?

Testing introduces an additional level of abstraction in the dating process. It can be confusing, misleading, and this is why I say not testing is much better and more natural.

It is very important that the girl I'm with be funny, smart, creative, fun, beautiful, etc....and these are strict requirements, mind you. It is not important HOW she goes about meeting my criteria to the point where I need to be questioning her about them.

The closest I can think of as an exception to this rule is smoking. Chicks who pull out cigarettes are an instant turn-off to me. I'm not sure why it's such a huge turn-off, but I think cigarettes are nasty and the girls who smell like them are even nastier. But on no occasion will you catch me asking a girl if she smokes. There's no need to.

This begs the question: So cynetix, what if she only smokes occasionally and it's not until you're laying in bed with her after you've had sex after a really fun date that she pulls out a cigarette? Will you be repulsed and tell her to leave and never see her again?

And that illustrates the key difference between us, because I might have to admit to myself that I might be okay with smoking in this instance.

Because you see, it's not that I have "I SHALL NOT DATE A SMOKER" embedded in my dating philosophy. I find it problematic that you, VBG, have "I SHALL NOT DATE A CONSERVATIVE" and that Wyldfire has "I SHALL NOT DATE AN UNCIRCUMSIZED MALE" embedded into your dating philosophies.

I can't argue against you guys saying it's not right to have such things in mind when looking for mates, because it seems to work for you. But it does seem awfully prejudiced, not to mention it very likely demonstrates a fundamental neglect of the intricacies of human nature, a lack in understanding how you yourselves work.

cynetix

Dude, it's very non-juan to argue with a chick.

If she doesn't date conservatives that's her deal.

Remember women don't make sense, and since women are great at arguing, guys will always lose by ARGUING BACK.

To win an argument or pass a test, you have to stop arguing, chill be cool, calm and unaffected. If anything, laugh at her opinion. You'd be surprised.. I've had some girls change their beliefs and opinions, not by me arguing them wrong, but by simply laughing at it and poking fun. Women are emotional creatures, and do and believe things on whether they FEEL is right, unlike us guys that think logical and put the pieces of the puzzle together and do and believe what we THINK or KNOW is right.

We all know that if VeryBadGirl is attracted to a man, EVEN IF HE'S GEORGE BUSH'S NUMBER ONE GROUPIE, that won't stop her for feeling attraction for him.

The conservative, the non-reader, the drug-free guy can get with VeryBadGirl if he knows how to make her feel attraction.

The reason conservatives drug-free guys may call up her guard is because it reminds her of her dad or someone in her life that was a total knobhead. There are DEEPER issues she has experienced with whatever man who was a conservative non-recreational drug user. She paints a picture in her mind that all conservatives are all LAME... which is not true, and it's not our job to ARGUE with her to prove it. If you fall under this category.. SHUT UP and start doing the things that create attraction and SHOW her that the conservative guy you are isn't the knobhead dad she had or the loser she had in highschool.

When it comes down to the core, she's not looking for a liberal druggie.. she just wants a MAN. period.

If afterall, she can't accept you for who you are, then NEXT! It's not that difficult. Don't be attached to the outcome.