Tech Bros - I Could Use Your Guidance

[Everything_but_Game]

I'm a recent graduate with a computer information degree trying to land a position in Software Engineering or Development.
The college I graduated from is not known for academic rigor, but the degree is accredited.

I've applied to at least 60 positions. My resume is making it past the computer screening process, but I'm not getting contacted for interviews - so I believe I am just not competitive for these positions.

My current job makes good money and is fairly tech-heavy, but is not software related in the slightest. It is at a very reputable company, though.


Entry Level Software Engineer/Developer positions are pretty sparse and seemingly quite competitive.
Trying to go full time in one of these positions is likely going to include a pay cut that I cannot afford, though there are some positions that would not be a pay cut at all - they are just very competitive.


I think I've got 3 options:
1. Getting some on the job experience via part time work - while working my current job - is something I would not mind.
2. I could pursue a Master's degree (it would be free for me) in a more renowned university like Drexel, Carnegie Mellon or Stevens. During this time I could leverage school resources into a paid internship.
3. I could build up a project or portfolio to demonstrate what I've learned (this probably needs to happen anyways).

If there are other options, I'm all ears.

I would appreciate any and all guidance on the subject; I'm feeling very unprepared for the career change I was hoping to make.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm a recent graduate with a computer information degree trying to land a position in Software Engineering or Development.
The college I graduated from is not known for academic rigor, but the degree is accredited.

I've applied to at least 60 positions. My resume is making it past the computer screening process, but I'm not getting contacted for interviews - so I believe I am just not competitive for these positions.

My current job makes good money and is fairly tech-heavy, but is not software related in the slightest. It is at a very reputable company, though.


Entry Level Software Engineer/Developer positions are pretty sparse and seemingly quite competitive.
Trying to go full time in one of these positions is likely going to include a pay cut that I cannot afford, though there are some positions that would not be a pay cut at all - they are just very competitive.


I think I've got 3 options:
1. Getting some on the job experience via part time work - while working my current job - is something I would not mind.
2. I could pursue a Master's degree (it would be free for me) in a more renowned university like Drexel, Carnegie Mellon or Stevens. During this time I could leverage school resources into a paid internship.
3. I could build up a project or portfolio to demonstrate what I've learned (this probably needs to happen anyways).

If there are other options, I'm all ears.

I would appreciate any and all guidance on the subject; I'm feeling very unprepared for the career change I was hoping to make.

Well, firstly, most companies don't really care about where you graduated from, they simply want to know if you are able to help them solve their problems via proper software design and bug fixing.

How do you know your resume is making it past the screening process? This is usually done by AI or some form of non-humsn filtering before an actual person looks at your resume.

Entry level dev positions should not be sparse...they are the most common position.
I guess depending on where you are at tho.

My suggestion is to look at jobs in your area and start familiarizing yourself with the most commonly used tech stacks there. Every place is different. Where I am at, .NET, Azure/AWS cloud, SQL Server and some flavor of JavaScript(usually Angular or React) are most common.

Also, become good at using an AI coding tool like GitHub Co-Pilot. We use it everyday at work and it makes life easier especially with the boilerplate code. Devs that don't use AI are going to be replaced by those who do.


Then start working on a project in that...ie, find something you want to build and go do it. It will teach you a LOT more than simply working on an open source project or doing code challenges. You will have to learn how to build stuff from the ground up from scratch and how to properly design something that is scalable and with proper architecture.

Masters Degrees don't really do much for you as a software engineer unless you are already near the top of the field. Honestly you might hurt your chances getting hired as a junior dev by having a Masters Degree since they would think you are overqualified or wonder why you already don't have a position as a dev and perhaps think you are not very good.

But I will ask you, how important is this to you?

Because I got hired at age 40 as a junior dev with no professional experience and no CS Degree simply thru sheer will, effort over several years and my passion for software engineering. I treated it like a second job and would come home and write code and work on my project for hours every night until 2-3am. I became obsessed with learning everything I could...best practices, proper architecture, designing applications with proper scalability, etc...

You are competing against people who are obsessed like I was and super passionate about it and who would do it for free even if they weren't getting paid for it. I did for 6-7 years.

Are you willing to work that hard for it, or is something you just wish you did but aren't willing to put in the effort to make happen?

How inconvenienced are you willing to be in your life to make that happen?

Are you willing to miss out of going out with friends on the weekend to stay home and write code? Miss out on going to the movies or other parties, etc because you have work to get done?

If the answer is no, then you have an uphill climb.

 

[FlirtLife]

I'm a recent graduate with a computer information degree trying to land a position in Software Engineering or Development.
The college I graduated from is not known for academic rigor, but the degree is accredited.
...
My current job makes good money and is fairly tech-heavy, but is not software related in the slightest. It is at a very reputable company, though.

Where is the evidence you can program computers?

Instead of a computer science degree, you got a computer information degree. Wouldn't employers prefer someone who focused on writing software - a computer science degree - rather than the degree you've got?

Instead of a software engineering job, you got a job unrelated to programming. Why would an employer think you can write software, if you got a job not writing software?

I guess I'm not seeing why you're qualified to write software - and I'm guessing that is what employers see as well.

 

[Everything_but_Game]

Instead of a software engineering job, you got a job unrelated to programming. Why would an employer think you can write software, if you got a job not writing software?

The courses I took (related to software):

• CIS335A Business Application Programming with Lab
• CIES3155A Business Application Programming with Lab
• CIES420 Programming Languages and Advanced Techniques
• CEIS499 - ??
• CEIS420 Programming Languages and Advanced Techniques
• CEIS400 Software Engineering 2
• CEIS320 Intro to Mobile Device Programming
• CEIS312 Intro to AI and Machine Learning
• CEIS299 Careers and Technology
• CEIS295 Data Structures and Algorithms
• CEIS236 Database Systems and Programming Fundamentals
• CEIS209 Intermediate Programming
• CEIS200 Software Engineering 1
• CEIS150 Programming w Objects
• CEIS144 Intro to Digital Devices
• CEIS110 Introduction to Programming
• CEIS106 Intro to Operating Systems
• CEIS101 Intro to Technology and Information

Everything else I took was related to infrastructure and security - both of which also relate to software, but are not specifically software.

Seems a bit related to software, in my opinion.

Where is the evidence you can program computers?

Outside of the degree, I have none.
As I'm learning, the job market is wrecked across most jobs, but particularly so for the software world.

I've spoken with an advisor and I need to adjust my resume to more accurately reflect what the employers want to see. That is my next step, Master's program is on the back burner for now.
Still looking for part time work or internships.

 

[FlirtLife]

The courses I took (related to software):
...
Everything else I took was related to infrastructure and security - both of which also relate to software, but are not specifically software.

Seems a bit related to software, in my opinion.

I mentioned "can write software" and asked about your not "not writing software"... and your response is to say certain classes were "related to software". I have not seen a job listing for a software engineer looking for someone "related to software". If you cannot write software, you should not apply to a job that requires writing software.

You listed many DeVry University classes. All else being equal, DeVry will count against you.

Outside of the degree, I have none.

If you can't write software, you can't hold a job writing software.

If you have some experience writing software in your DeVry classes, try to pick up where you left off. It is easier to finish learning a programming language than starting over. One of the course descriptions mentioned C#, so maybe you can start there.

There are free websites like LeetCode (https://leetcode.com/) where you can practice solving problems of various difficulties in the programming language of your choice. If ultimately you can't write software, you are better served applying for jobs you can do.

As I'm learning, the job market is wrecked across most jobs, but particularly so for the software world.

The current U.S. unemployment rate of 4.1% is lower than anytime in 2000-2017, so I don't view it as "wrecked across most jobs".

 

[Everything_but_Game]

I mentioned "can write software" and asked about your not "not writing software"... and your response is to say certain classes were "related to software". I have not seen a job listing for a software engineer looking for someone "related to software". If you cannot write software, you should not apply to a job that requires writing software.

You listed many DeVry University classes. All else being equal, DeVry will count against you.



If you can't write software, you can't hold a job writing software.

If you have some experience writing software in your DeVry classes, try to pick up where you left off. It is easier to finish learning a programming language than starting over. One of the course descriptions mentioned C#, so maybe you can start there.

There are free websites like LeetCode (https://leetcode.com/) where you can practice solving problems of various difficulties in the programming language of your choice. If ultimately you can't write software, you are better served applying for jobs you can do.



The current U.S. unemployment rate of 4.1% is lower than anytime in 2000-2017, so I don't view it as "wrecked across most jobs".

Do you work in software or any closely related field?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Do you work in software or any closely related field?

I'm a senior DevOps Engineer

 

[Everything_but_Game]

I'm a senior DevOps Engineer

I figured something along these lines when you said you were hired as a jr developer at 40. Given the "78" at the end of your handle, I assume you are late 40's - which lines up with Sr Dev or DevOps (just saying the timeline makes sense).

I was asking @FlirtLife if he worked in the field due to some of the wording he was using in his responses.

 

[FlirtLife]

Do you work in software or any closely related field?

Yes, senior software engineer.

You started this topic claiming to want a job as a Software Engineer or Software Developer. Those jobs require writing code.

I'd suggest you spend some weeks or months trying to write software - trying to code. If you can learn/re-learn a programming language, great - that's the language you list on your resume. But if you can't learn/re-learn to write software, don't expect to get a job writing software.

 

[AAAgent]

Probably utilize AI to refine your resume, then polish it yourself afterwards.

Build something using code. Probably needs to be more advanced than this bot I built and launched this week but have something tangible to show people.

Fortune Teller bot i built on Telegram.
https://t.co/E8NfHWo5RY

---

My advice is for entering big tech.

I work in big tech in management on the business side. If you don't come from a top university with a math/engineering/comp-sci background, you're not getting an interview. That was before this economic downturn. It's likely much worse now. Another way to get in is to work at a start-up. Most of the people in big tech either come from Ivy's or they have Masters or PhD's. A "degree" accredited or no just won't cut it. Big tech is the creme de la creme, so don't expect them to accept anything outside of this. The market is also very slim for openings atm, so you'll be competing against many in this field. Likely, best bet is to focus on building something of your own. If you aren't capable of atleast doing that, you likely won't be able to compete.

I would try to build as many things as you can, even if its just for fun. Learn as much as you can. Enter into competitions, etc. Get into some new industry early. I got into crypto very early and then from crypto, transitioned into traditional big tech.

I applied a similar strategy but to the business side of big tech. I wasn't competing based on education credentials so I really needed to get work experience to wow. Even then, traditional work experience wasn't enough to wow them since I was competing against investment bankers, big 4 consulting, big 4 accounting, etc. So eventually, I targeted fringe and outlier industries and landed on crypto. I became well connected and somewhat known in crypto, and eventually big tech came and recruited me. Now that i'm in big tech, I also get interviews and poachers coming after me.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Yes, senior software engineer.

You started this topic claiming to want a job as a Software Engineer or Software Developer. Those jobs require writing code.

I'd suggest you spend some weeks or months trying to write software - trying to code. If you can learn/re-learn a programming language, great - that's the language you list on your resume. But if you can't learn/re-learn to write software, don't expect to get a job writing software.

A lot of places don't require you have a degree if you have experience doing it and can show them that...

That being said, not all places are like that and you still have to show you know what you are talking about and have to be significantly better than the junior devs with a degree...which honestly isn't all that hard if you actually put the work and time and effort into it for a few years.

 

[Ricky]

Thanks for the GitHub CoPilot tip

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Thanks for the GitHub CoPilot tip

Just dont take everything it gives you at face value. It's great for boilerplate code and documentation and some unit tests.

Other stuff can be hit or miss and it will send you done some giant rabbit holes that will send you in circles for hours if you let it.

 

[MatureDJ]

The courses I took (related to software):

• CIS335A Business Application Programming with Lab
• CIES3155A Business Application Programming with Lab
• CIES420 Programming Languages and Advanced Techniques
• CEIS499 - ??
• CEIS420 Programming Languages and Advanced Techniques
• CEIS400 Software Engineering 2
• CEIS320 Intro to Mobile Device Programming
• CEIS312 Intro to AI and Machine Learning
• CEIS299 Careers and Technology
• CEIS295 Data Structures and Algorithms
• CEIS236 Database Systems and Programming Fundamentals
• CEIS209 Intermediate Programming
• CEIS200 Software Engineering 1
• CEIS150 Programming w Objects
• CEIS144 Intro to Digital Devices
• CEIS110 Introduction to Programming
• CEIS106 Intro to Operating Systems
• CEIS101 Intro to Technology and Information

Everything else I took was related to infrastructure and security - both of which also relate to software, but are not specifically software.

Seems a bit related to software, in my opinion.


Outside of the degree, I have none.
As I'm learning, the job market is wrecked across most jobs, but particularly so for the software world.

I've spoken with an advisor and I need to adjust my resume to more accurately reflect what the employers want to see. That is my next step, Master's program is on the back burner for now.
Still looking for part time work or internships.

Well, it sounds like a proper Computer Science degree. I think the software development career is becoming unraveled by the enormous efficiency boost from AI chatbots (i.e., specialized to spit out code), with lots of experience programmers getting thrown out, so it will be virtually impossible to get into such a career as a newbie.

 

[FlirtLife]

A lot of places don't require you have a degree if you have experience doing it and can show them that...

That being said, not all places are like that and you still have to show you know what you are talking about and have to be significantly better than the junior devs with a degree...which honestly isn't all that hard if you actually put the work and time and effort into it for a few years.

I mentioned writing software four times in that post, and didn't mention a degree at all. When you bring up "don't require you to have a degree", are you responding to the correct post? (See below)

Yes, senior software engineer.

You started this topic claiming to want a job as a Software Engineer or Software Developer. Those jobs require writing code.

I'd suggest you spend some weeks or months trying to write software - trying to code. If you can learn/re-learn a programming language, great - that's the language you list on your resume. But if you can't learn/re-learn to write software, don't expect to get a job writing software.

 

[FlirtLife]

Well, it sounds like a proper Computer Science degree. I think the software development career is becoming unraveled by the enormous efficiency boost from AI chatbots (i.e., specialized to spit out code), with lots of experience programmers getting thrown out, so it will be virtually impossible to get into such a career as a newbie.

What is your background in Computer Science?

You claim "experience[sic] programmers" and "newbie" cannot get jobs in computer science - isn't that everyone? Let me waste my time and ask for you to quote a source, which you won't, because you're making stuff up as you go.

Regarding "a proper Computer Science degree" (OP said " computer information degree"), the top result when I searched for DeVry University ranking computer science was this, from EduRank:
"DeVry University - Illinois ranked 1018th for Computer Science in the United States and 4937th in the World with 305 publications made and 2,188 citations received"