Talking About God is NOT Religious.

typical

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Well when you start a topic relating to "god" it does boil down to a religious thing, its just they way it is.

On a side track though if there really is a god in his many manifestations, do you really think he/she/it cares what 6.5 billion people are doing at any one point in time ?

I know I'd be nailing the many gazillions of virgins up in heaven LOL :)
 

A-Unit

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Re:

By no means do I know how everything was created, or who did it, or if religion is the answer. Religion, IMO, always has a set of guidelines, NORMALLY during times of much less civilization, though this one seems to be devolving to that point, so it might bring it back into the limelight.

My basis for God, or whatever representation you seek to make is that SOMETHING gave the flicker to consciousness, or substance. Some INITIAL point to the real basis of it all. SOMETHING placed the blackness of space within whatever framework we are in. Then, THAT something also placed a few rules and guidelines as you like to call them, which then inter-reacted with each other, purportedly bringing us to THIS point.

For scientists to ASSUME that the universe SIMPLY BIG-banged its way here sounds more like magic than believing a higher intellect did it. Why? Because it would BE MAGICAL to assume energy, substance, rules, laws, and guidelines appeared out of thin black, air! That's magical. But nobody explains the STARTING point for whatever BROUGHT together the planets. For whatever brought together the universe.

It's a like a LIGHT switch in the blackness of existence, or moreover, like blank, comatose mind just awakened, and here we are. And perhaps we're just experiences playing out IN THE MIND of God.

----------------------

And interesting book I've read, which purports to be true like all books which cite prophets from unknown dimensions, called "Disappearance of the Universe," states that we never split from God. In fact we are still with him. That the world we PERCEIVE is just a HUGE virtual reality machine that is played out by our Ego, and made all the more real as we fight it. The basis for the split was that the Ego or a piece of "us" couldn't deal with the idea of not being a unique identity. It wanted it's own "Godness." And then it split, supposedly leaving God, though we never really did...kind of like a huge blob of ghack that you pull away super far from the core, yet it never really detaches from the core. It's a wild idea, perhaps to some, but if we can't figure out where we came from, and we don't know where we're going, what's the point of fighting it and closing ourselves to any millions of possibilities?

And making the same EXTENSION of thought from here to Antartica is not the same. You can't know about Antartica without having been taught about it, seen pictures, and from other's experiences. Even then, someone could say Antartica was Hawaii, and you wouldn't know because you haven't been. A logical leap can be made to assume it's not plutonium, but no such leap secures the idea that it's cold if all you have are second hand opinions. Sailors didn't know the world was round until they did it several times with success.

And trying to venture a GUESS at the universe is insane. We haven't been there, and if it's shrinking or expanding, we wouldn't know it. We barely understand our own universe, what is on planets, how it originated, and how many planets their TRULY are, so why can be assume the non-existence of God when we can't grope more than our day to day lives, and for some THAT's a stretch.

We must be God's children, because only children would try to prove themselves right on so many topics that they will inevitably realize they don't know jack shyt about. It would be the wiseman who realizes he doesn't know what he doesn't know.


A-Unit
 

Nocturnal

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A-Unit, it sounds to me that you think that because existence and consciousness exist, something had to create them both. Well, whatever created them had to exist at some point right? What created that? And what created that? Your answer to what appears to be an unanswerable question is just posing more unanswerable questions of the same nature. Or am I missing something?
 

grinder

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Uh, time is a construct. Not real. Our brains, well, not hurting anyone's feelings, but mostly monkey.

GOD!!

Beyond your current level of comprehension (CLOC: Yes ,, = Linux-term).

I had a 5 hour Oxford tutorial on this subject (yes, in 1981) in which I proved that consiousness preceeds existence. Did it change reality, only for me.
 

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Permission

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A-Unit said:
Some INITIAL point to the real basis of it all. SOMETHING placed the blackness of space within whatever framework we are in. Then, THAT something also placed a few rules and guidelines as you like to call them, which then inter-reacted with each other, purportedly bringing us to THIS point.
A-unit, the whole thing is a paradox that you can argue either way. If you honestly think "something" must start all this stuff, then I could argue that "something else" must start that "something". It's an infinite series of causes-and-effects.
If you believe that the original "god" doesn't need a beginning, then one could also argue that substances do not need a beginning either. Electrons and particals could just BE, without the need for a beginning.
 

Helter Skelter

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So far the best supporting evidence for how we got here is EVOLUTION.

Although controversial with the general public, evolution within the scientific community is accepted as fact with over 99% of scientists supporting it. Especially biologists.

It would appear the greater knowledge you have of science, the more evolution becomes without any doubts.

I believe in our lifetime science will have a solid theory on how living organisms developed from a none living substance. Their is a clear progression already on record of how life progressed from the sea to land.

Newsweek magazine a couple months ago had profiled a missing link in the fossil record where they have recently discovered fossils of fish with feet.

I would like to believe with all my heart that their is a God but the more I learn the more skeptical I become.

If life can develop on it's own that could provide strong evidence for how we got here.

It has been said many times in history if their is a God how could it allow so much suffering in the world?

Hypothetically, if you created a world without a God I think it would be very similar to this one. But that's just my opinion.
 

SamePendo

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Helter Skelter said:
I believe in our lifetime science will have a solid theory on how living organisms developed from a none living substance.

I thought they allready figured that out, I remember studying some book long time ago in which it said that they had allready repeated what happened long time ago, in a laboratory in a controlled manner, etc. What supposedly happened, was that there was a mixture of certain gasses, which combined with an electrical charge, made, created, miniature living organisms.
 

Helter Skelter

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SamePendo said:
I thought they allready figured that out, I remember studying some book long time ago in which it said that they had allready repeated what happened long time ago, in a laboratory in a controlled manner, etc. What supposedly happened, was that there was a mixture of certain gasses, which combined with an electrical charge, made, created, miniature living organisms.
That could be true, maybe I missed that or maybe science is not confident enough in that theory yet.

Anybody have a link?

I think it's important to know what theory's are considered fact within the scientific community vs one writers or one scientist opinion.
 

CLOONEY

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I agree 100%. The last discussion on the board about god was shut and there was not even one bit of flaming or ignorant posting, it was simply a discussion.
 

Helter Skelter

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:box: Religious discussion and posters by the name of "Bible Belt" aren't allowed in this forum or thread.

Thank You very much :)
 

penkitten

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come on helter, lets not rag on someones screen name. after all, helter skelter refers to charles manson doesnt it? and who does charles manson claim to be ?
 

GirlCrazy

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This thread clearly makes God angry.
 

MetalFortress

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Nocturnal said:
A-Unit, it sounds to me that you think that because existence and consciousness exist, something had to create them both. Well, whatever created them had to exist at some point right? What created that? And what created that? Your answer to what appears to be an unanswerable question is just posing more unanswerable questions of the same nature. Or am I missing something?
The question puts a bit of a box on God, because if there was a God (which I believe there is), God would be more powerful than the concept of creation. For something to have created God, time would have to have existed before God, because the period from creation to creation would have to flow within the realm of time. But if there is a God, and that God is omnipotent and omniscient, then God would have to exist outside of the realm of time, therefore making it impossible for something to have "created" God beforehand.
 

CLOONEY

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MetalFortress said:
The question puts a bit of a box on God, because if there was a God (which I believe there is), God would be more powerful than the concept of creation. For something to have created God, time would have to have existed before God, because the period from creation to creation would have to flow within the realm of time. But if there is a God, and that God is omnipotent and omniscient, then God would have to exist outside of the realm of time, therefore making it impossible for something to have "created" God beforehand.
Exactly!
 

Nocturnal

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MetalFortress said:
The question puts a bit of a box on God, because if there was a God (which I believe there is), God would be more powerful than the concept of creation. For something to have created God, time would have to have existed before God, because the period from creation to creation would have to flow within the realm of time. But if there is a God, and that God is omnipotent and omniscient, then God would have to exist outside of the realm of time, therefore making it impossible for something to have "created" God beforehand.
I wouldn't expect my explanation to make 100% sense, it's based on concept that I believe to be false (the existence of God). A-Unit essentially said, "God must exist because consciousness exists." But if God is conscious, then consciousness exists without us being conscious, so God could not have "invented" it. The only exception would be that he gave consciousness spontaneously to himself, which is basically saying the same thing that the big bang and the theory of evolution say, which is that consciousness can be born spontaneously out of existence, no God necessary.

My original point was that if we have existence, and we have consciousness, who's to say that some higher power had to create them? And if he did create them, then he would have already required the possession of consciousness and existence. In short, God would have already been what he was creating on some level. So to say that God doesn't need a reason to just exist and have consciousness, but that we do, is a little ridiculous. Being God doesn't change the nature of consciousness and existence, it just gives you some really cool powers :).

Not to mention that it is impossible to use any kind of logic to explain or justify the supernatural... logic only works as long as its based on reality, and the supernatural is beyond reality. Any argument for God is no more valid than a sentence of random words strung together.
 

Helter Skelter

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penkitten said:
come on helter, lets not rag on someones screen name. after all, helter skelter refers to charles manson doesnt it? and who does charles manson claim to be ?
Penkitten don't be so clueless. Helter Skelter is the name of a Beatles song which was written about a roller coaster in England. This was done before Charles Manson came on the scene. I'm a huge Beatles fan which is why I chose the title

Charles Manson later took the title of the song for his own sick agenda. People have done worst acts in history in the name of God.
 

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