Take some chances, and don't get too mathematical! _PLEASE READ_

[Zap]

It's been a while since I'm posted some actual ADVICE on this board, instead of just questions. I think this is really important, and would do everyone good to read.

I notice a trend of following very rigid patterns and rules in dating. It seems to be that people around here have a bunch of algorithyms of sorts that they follow when dealing with women, regardless of other factors.

For example, if the girl does something that somehow shows "low-interest" she should be dumped. Or if she does something disrespectful, she should be dumped. And you should only get the phone number in a specific way.

You know what all of this is? Bull****. Pure bull****.

No two women are alike. Although after years of rejection and harsh treatment it may be comforting to assume this, but you're believing a lie. Sure, there may be patterns, there may be traits most share, but I promise you that ever single woman alive has certain features that break defy one expectation or another.

Treating every situation the same is a sure way to get nowhere... fast.

Let me give you a anecdotal example: About a month ago I ended up making out with this really hot girl I barely knew. She snuck me and my friend into her house late at night, and by the end we ended up in her bed getting into a little hanky-panky.

Now, AD and many others would have told me she was just using me, that she had little interest level by doing this. They would have said to dump her, not to waste my time. In fact, that's what I thought, and my expectations weren't very high. But I didn't let my assumptions, my math, decide my fate. I followed up on it, called her the next day, and we very soon had a relationship.

Who would have guessed? Who would have guessed that she *really* likes me, and doesn't play any games with me? Who would have guessed that now I'm in a great relationship, with someone I've been looking for for the past year?

Most of you would never imagine such I thing. I wouldn't. But I didn't give up just because something didn't go how I thought it should. Life isn't like that. People certainly aren't like that. There is no one-size-fits-all dating technique that one can apply to all women, all situations. It invariably depends on your character, who the woman is, how you met, etc.

Certainly there are some general rules, but these rules are always subject to be broken. Let them guide you, but don't let them rule you. Create your OWN destiny.

Phew, long post, thanks for reading the whole thing.

-Zap

 

[Zap]

Oops, looks like someone already posted this, only a little less... elequent?

Sorry if I'm redundant with this thread...

-Zap

 

[scottdahustla]

Originally posted by Zap:
.

For example, if the girl does something that somehow shows "low-interest" she should be dumped. Or if she does something disrespectful, she should be dumped. And you should only get the phone number in a specific way.

-Zap

Good post ZAP, I hear you on that one.

Basically when it all comes down to it, you just gotta be YOU.

IF you are a NICE GUY, you might find a NICE GIRL one day and be happy.

If you are a JERK, you might find a girl who is a JERK and be happy.

If you have a two incher, you might find a girl with a two incher as well and be happy.

If you.................ahhhhhhhhhhhh what the f**k! you get the point.

DO YOU!

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Image


and Confidence.

 

[JasonR]

Hey Zap, thats what i was trying to say, thank you for putting it more elequently, but u and i are on the same tracks at least.

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Whatever....

 

[BigBadJon]

I guess you younger guys just haven't been bulldozed enough times for this stuff to sink in.

Of course advice here should be adapted according to individual situations, but by following a general guideline that comes from experience with women you will be able to greatly improve your success rate.

It's the same as being in a sales training seminar for the company that you work for. The sales trainer has studied all angles of what makes your company's customers tick and he knows the things that influence their buying decisions. This guy probably became sales trainer by being one of the company's most successful salespeople. The sales trainer gives you step by step instructions on the best way to generate more sales. Not the only way, but the best way. If by following the trainers suggestions you can make an extra $20,000 per year wouldn't you do it? You would be foolish not to.

It seems most of this slamming of rules and systems comes from you guys that are still in school. A few years out of school in the real world will change your views drastically.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by BigBadJon:
I guess you younger guys just haven't been bulldozed enough times for this stuff to sink in.

Of course advice here should be adapted according to individual situations, but by following a general guideline that comes from experience with women you will be able to greatly improve your success rate.

It's the same as being in a sales training seminar for the company that you work for. The sales trainer has studied all angles of what makes your company's customers tick and he knows the things that influence their buying decisions. This guy probably became sales trainer by being one of the company's most successful salespeople. The sales trainer gives you step by step instructions on the best way to generate more sales. Not the only way, but the best way. If by following the trainers suggestions you can make an extra $20,000 per year wouldn't you do it? You would be foolish not to.

It seems most of this slamming of rules and systems comes from you guys that are still in school. A few years out of school in the real world will change your views drastically.

Maybe, if dating girls is like selling used cars.

If that's your attitude, than what you're saying applies. But I think most of use think relationships are quite a lot different than ripping off middle-aged men and old-ladies.

Or is that just my young idealism?

-Zap

 

[Devlar]

Hey, kids remember me? I just came back to see how everyone is doing, and to my distaste i see that arrogent black and white attitude to life is still ruling this forum.

All i have to say to that is if things were that simple our lives would be ruled by mathematicians who could plot out our whole lives. Unfortunately there are so many variables in life and they will never be able to do that.

Things aren't always what they appear to be, whether due to our percpective bias or because of simple variation of circumstance.

Trust your gut, don't rely on stiff rules

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Devlar

Remember its hard to be a gentileman, but that doesn't mean it's not fun

 

[Anti-Dump]

reply withdrawn.


[This message has been edited by Anti-Dump (edited 11-25-2000).]

 

[Devlar]

I see somethings don't change, isn't that right AD

Oh you mean someone else on this forum decided to grow a concience and a free will?

Wow, if i stayed i would have been proud

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Devlar

Remember its hard to be a gentileman, but that doesn't mean it's not fun

 

[Anti-Dump]

reply wthdrawn.



[This message has been edited by Anti-Dump (edited 11-25-2000).]

 

[BigBadJon]

Originally posted by Zap:
Maybe, if dating girls is like selling used cars.

I use sales analogies because they are dead on. If you break it down to the bare bones, attracting women is nothing but sales.

The customer (or woman) is usually sceptical of your sales pitch (or opening line). Every customer is out to get the best possible deal. No different than what a woman wants. She wants the man with the best genes to father her children.

A good salesman knows that there are certain ways to work a customer to close a sale. As does a successful Don Juan. Of course, no two customers or women are exactly alike, but the smart man knows that in order to increase his chances he must try to use previous experience (whether personal or from another person) to his advantage.

If that's your attitude, than what you're saying applies. But I think most of use think relationships are quite a lot different than ripping off middle-aged men and old-ladies.

Or is that just my young idealism?

Yes, seems you have a romantic view of the world that prevents you from seeing the real picture. Successful relationships aren't merely the random occurance that they are made out to be. In order to be happy with a female, a man needs to gain greater understanding of what makes them tick.

I had the perfect relationship. I was clueless enough about women to let it slip through my fingers. She was everything I wanted. Beautiful reddish brown hair. Perfect butt. Natural "C" cup. Intellegent. Good job. Ambitious. Cute. Funny. Best of all, she was madly in love with me. So what did I do to try to keep the flame burning? Exactly the opposite of what is talked about on this board. From day 1 we were with each other 24/7. I brought her flowers and told her I love her too early. After 6 months the relationship had peaked and I ended up living with her for another year before she left. I was clueless then. I now have the knowledge not to let the same thing happen to me again.

According to t.v., movies and such the love of our life should just fall into our lap and we live happily ever after. Some are born with the natural talent for relating to women. The other 99% of us need to wake up and smell the coffee before we can get it right, and this means understanding and following certain guidelines to avoid getting run over like a freight train time and time again.

-Zap

 

[BigBadJon]

AD, the common thread to these guys challenging the hard earned logic behind the more experienced guys advice is that they are all still in school (look at the profiles). I guess the nature of youth is to question the advice of the older and wiser. Not that I'm that old.... I suppose I was the same way a few years ago.

 

[Anti-Dump]

Originally posted by BigBadJon:

Great post BBJ!,

It's not a RANDOM happening like you said.

If you 'wing it' you get your wings clipped!

Women CHOOSE certain types of men . That's the secret we have all been waiting for.

The good part is that each of us has these qualities inside us already. We just have to highlight some of them and down play some of the others.

You ARE being yourself. But just not your PAST self.

AD

 

[Anti-Dump]

Originally posted by BigBadJon:
AD, the common thread to these guys challenging the hard earned logic behind the more experienced guys advice is that they are all still in school (look at the profiles). I guess the nature of youth is to question the advice of the older and wiser. Not that I'm that old.... I suppose I was the same way a few years ago.

You are right. They just haven't learned "You don't know a Good One until you met a Bad One."

They just don't know what pain is yet. They are too darn healthy!!!

Also, they don't have a problem with the immutable Laws of Physics.

But when it comes to the Laws of Dating they freak out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talk to you later.

AD

 

[Peak]

Originally posted by Devlar:

All i have to say to that is if things were that simple our lives would be ruled by mathematicians who could plot out our whole lives. Unfortunately there are so many variables in life and they will never be able to do that.

No, but astrophysicists are close to TOE!

Theory of Everything that is.

Cheers.

 

[jester1x]

For the most part, women don't change as they get older. I feel that the same methods/techniques used when you are younger will still work when you get older. The only major difference is that older women have more complicated personal issues to deal with (i.e. bad long-term relationships, bad marriages and children which usually result in low self-esteem). Some women are able to recognize and work out these personal issues and go on to have successful, fulfilling relationships, while others keep making the same mistake over and over. They are too afraid of change or don't have the courage to do what it takes to be happy. I guess you could say they are, essentially a waste of your time and emotion. My point is is to realize that what you see (the reaction and treatment you get from her) is sometimes all there is to a woman. The only way for that beautiful person to come out of her is by means of therapy or for her to be hurt so many times that she has to change. I don't want a woman who is desperate (leftovers) and is empty in the emotional sense. I don't want to be the one she settled for because noone else wanted her. She will have nothing to offer you, but her physical self (i.e. sex). I do like sex, but it's not all that I'm looking for with a women. Use your own personal judgement and do what you can live with, but know when to leave despite how you feel about her.
Don't "lose" yourself to get a woman because it's not worth it. You will resent her in the end. Remember what you see is sometimes all that you'll ever get from a woman and all that she'll ever be. I hope all of this made sense to you fellas. I'm learning that now myself. One person shouldn't have to carry the hope for two people nor should a real relationship make you feel like you'll lose her unless you do all of the work. She has to meet your efforts halfway. If she doesn't, then she is not worth it.



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Fooled(Jester) one(1) time(x) too many!

 

[Zap]

Bigbadjon, if this was the perfect woman, she wouldn't have left you. Simple as that. So the "spark" died. Would you rather it die in a couple years, or get an extra ten years so it dies after you're married? Is divorce the better alternative?

The "one true love" isn't based on a spark. It's based on deep, personal, intimate love. Not infatuation.

I would rather have a relationship that was based on truth an honesty fail, than have one based on tactics and deceit last a few extra years. It may be more difficult at times, but in the long run it's the only way to go.

Please don't discount me because I'm young. Sure, I have a different outlook on life than those of you are older. Different. Not less realistic, not stupid.

This isn't for everyone. Maybe some of you really just think you have unlikable personalities. Maybe you think no woman would possibly love the REAL you, so you wear masks. But no, no way... after all, we're all so CONFIDENT. Right?

-Zap

 

[BigBadJon]

Originally posted by Zap:
Bigbadjon, if this was the perfect woman, she wouldn't have left you. Simple as that. So the "spark" died. Would you rather it die in a couple years, or get an extra ten years so it dies after you're married? Is divorce the better alternative?

Not as simple as that. Society has you conditioned to believe that one day you will meet your soul mate and all will be perfect forever. The vast majority of men are clueless as to how to maintain a relationship, this is why they fall apart so easily. With a little knowledge of the female psyche, a man can greatly increase his chances of meeting and holding onto the ideal mate.

The "one true love" isn't based on a spark. It's based on deep, personal, intimate love. Not infatuation.

Thats the romantic side of you talking that will ultimately lead to you taking beating after beating wondering where you went wrong because you "thought" you were doing everything right.

I would rather have a relationship that was based on truth an honesty fail, than have one based on tactics and deceit last a few extra years. It may be more difficult at times, but in the long run it's the only way to go.

Nothing should be based upon deception or dishonesty. All you need is enough self respect to keep yourself from being taken advantage of. There is nothing wrong with making minor adjustments to your personality to become a better person.

Please don't discount me because I'm young. Sure, I have a different outlook on life than those of you are older. Different. Not less realistic, not stupid.

Not stupid, more like romanticised. You are conditioned from a very young age to do all the wrong things to make a woman fall in love with you. 29 years of being railroaded while thinking you are doing everything right will make you see this.

This isn't for everyone. Maybe some of you really just think you have unlikable personalities. Maybe you think no woman would possibly love the REAL you, so you wear masks.

I know that I have the ability to attract a highly desirable woman. I have done it more than once. It's what I did during the relationship that screwed everything up.

Don't become someone you are not. Accentute your good points and downplay the bad. Doing this doesn't constitute being fake or wearing a mask. It's all about being the best person you can be.

 

[ChrisFl]

> There is no one-size-fits-all dating technique that one can apply to all women, all situations.

Is anyone here saying there is?

I think the sales analogies are good ones, & even the best salesman doesn't close every deal, but he learns what works & applies that to future prospects. I guess the major difference is that if you find the right "customer" & make the sale (assuming you want a long-term relationship), you don't need to find another customer.

Selling doesn't have to equal ripping people off. A good salesman sells the right product to the right customer, so the customer is satisfied & comes back for more business, as well as spreading the word.

 

[Paradox]

Bump

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