Systemic Issue Has Put Me In The Deepest Slump Of My Life -- Please Help

[tvercettiinnocentman]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I'm hoping the DJ community can help me with a systemic issue in my game that I have noticed recently.

Long story short, I've always had trouble with women. In elementary, junior high, and high school, I was practically a leper. I was friendzoned just slightly less often than I was outright rejected because I was "gross," "had a pencil ****" (don't know where that came from she didn't see it and I'm average size), and the topper -- "Who would ever go out with [tvercettiinnocentman]?"

I went to college 500 miles away from my hometown to get away from the negativity. Things were better in college, but only slightly. I got my first real girlfriends, but two of them cheated on me, one of them wanted an open relationship so she had to go, and the fourth bailed because I was too beta. After college, I started reading a lot of DJ posts and that helped fix the problem. My game improved, I was able to get dates with ease, and I was the one running the show in my relationships instead of the other way around. It was life-changing.

Flash forward seven years. I moved to a southern state that is very poor for graduate school, I got my degree, and now I work in a prestigious job that pays me 3x the median income for my state.

I also lost a lot of weight and am currently 6'1" and 185 pounds with a muscular build. I would say I'm high on the looks scale, thanks to eating healthy and working out. I usually catch attractive women checking me out on the street, so I take that as a sign that I look good but I've always personally felt that I was ugly. Maybe it's because of my past or something else, but I push past it to maintain frame. I think if a good number of girls give you the up-and-down look you must be doing something right.

Due to my income, I also dress well. Not hard to do where I live because fashion isn't anywhere near #1 on the list of priorities, but I know it's passing muster because girls will ask me if I'm gay because of the way I dress.

Basically I'm getting all the signals you guys say are positive indicators that you are putting on the proper external appearance to get attention from women.

Here's the problem:

Whereas before women found me to be repulsive, now the common theme I'm getting is that I'm "intimidating."

For example, I went on a semi-blind date with a girl on Friday, set up by a coworker. She's 21 and very attractive. She was interested from the get-go after my coworker showed her pictures of me from FB. But, once on the date, she shut it down. Her strong eye contact betrayed her interest, but she said very little, kept her head down, her arms crossed, and muttered one-word answers. She would initiate very light kino, then immediately thereafter look every bit the picture of someone who expected to be punched in the face. I thought it was because I came across too serious, but I was laughing and joking with her and with the group we were with.

This very exact same scenario happened with my best friend's girlfriend's friend who asked to be set up with me by name. My buddy's gf talked me up a lot before the date. I'm thinking this has to be a slam dunk. Nope. Once I get on the date she is not talkative, closed body language, and keeps her head down. I tried being fun and gregarious, but it didn't work. I left the date without asking for the number.

This has started to become very common. I'll get a girl's phone number, exchange a few texts, go on the date, and then they shut it down. I'm usually so bored with the conversation or didn't feel enough chemistry so I don't ask for the second date. Sometimes the date will go well, but then the girl starts playing way too many games and trying her hardest to get me to chase her. I'll next those girls because I'm not interested in playing their games. I don't know what the problem is all the time, but in instances where I have mutual friends with the target, the feedback is always the same: "He's intimidating."

I'm not an intimidating presence. I'm a natural extrovert. And I love to encourage people. I try to be gregarious and charming, especially on a date. Mostly, I just want the girl to have fun and I want to make her feel good without coming across as beta or needy.

I'm really hoping the DJ community can give me some pointers on how to fix this systemic problem. I've experienced it with women of all races, all age groups, and all income levels. It doesn't matter, the response is always the same: "He's intimidating."

I haven't had a girlfriend in two years and I haven't had sex in 18 months because of this issue. It's getting very lonely around my house because it's only my dog and me. Furthermore, I'm starting to become depressed because I feel this situation is hopeless and does not stand any chance of getting better. I'm hoping the Mature Man community can help me, especially because I'm sure many of you are successful and are used to dating younger women. Where I live, women get married by the time they're 25. I can only date someone my age if she's divorced and has kids, and I'm not interested in going down that road.

Thank you all so much in advance.

 

[dasein]

1. Friendly setups are often going to be with girls who have personality problems. They would act that way with anyone, discount it. Can't count the number of setups with weird girls I've been on over the years.
2. Dates from the net are often the same. IME, don't dress up for first dates, plain is better, just be very neat and clean, little if any cologne, nothing to give the impression that you are a player or "slumming." My best OLD attire is a pair of well-fitting jeans, crisp but plain solid color straight collar dress/sport shirt, Roper boots or well cared loafers.
3. You need more datapoints. "Intimidating" is good with healthy self-esteem women. Consider more active walking around dates as opposed to sitting somewhere. Light, flirty, fun, warm, not serious, 20 questions, relationship talk, negative talk or complaints. Good luck.

 

[Shaka]

I haven't had a girlfriend in two years and I haven't had sex in 18 months because of this issue. It's getting very lonely around my house because it's only my dog and me. Furthermore, I'm starting to become depressed because I feel this situation is hopeless and does not stand any chance of getting better.

This got my attention.
I get the feeling that you are putting pvssies on a piedestal. That your happiness is linked to the fact of getting a GF.
If this wasn't the case, this thread wouldn't exist. Or at least, you would't have added that at the end. And maybe chicks are feeling it.

Learn to be happy alone, free from pvssies and pressure from society.

Now about being too intimidating, it's time for tough bro love so bear with me.
it's actually hard to tell anything wihtout further details.
It could be your own rationalization because your game is weak.
Maybe chicks said that about you so they won't tell the truth AKA low IL.
You mentionned that chicks are boring. Maybe you let them feel that way because of your weak game.
Again, it's difficult to say. Can you provide some examples ? (even with that it can be difficult tho, if can't see the tone, body language and things like this)

What I'm trying to say is this : maybe you're not too intimidating. But it's just your own projection to protect yourself, so you aren't admitting that your game is weak.

Try to step back a little and medidate about this. If you discover a problem, then you can fix it.
Be aware that the common thing in all of this is YOU. Because not all girls are boring or not all girl find you too intimidating (or whatever this is)
Actually, if what you said is true, you should have 5 plates begging to svck your d1ck.

 

[tvercettiinnocentman]

Yeah, I initially thought all of these things too. Especially the part about bad game, but one of my good friends is a Natural and he watched my pickups. Didn't have any complaints about the game I was running, said everything was good to go.

FWIW, I don't put the ***** on the pedestal. I only made that comment because it's head-scratching that I'm 18 months without P-in-V and I'm tired of looking at porn.

Here's another example: I met a girl in late February through a mutual friend. We hit it off and went on three dates. During these dates, she really didn't say much. She was super, super shy. I asked my mutual friend what was up because I was thinking of breaking it off. My mutual friend says, "Ash is probably just nervous. She's obsessed with you." My mutual friend then shows me a text message conversation they had. My mutual friend asked Ash what she liked so much about me because she would keep blowing up her phone every time I texted, called, or asked her to hang out again (e.g., "I get to see [tvercettiinnocentman] today!"). Ash responded to my mutual friend's text messages with about a page of full of really nice qualities: he's hot, he's got a good job, he's funny, he's nice, he's a real man, he doesn't take ****, he dresses well, etc. It was kinda creepy, actually, so I broke it off.

That's the conundrum. In person, they're wall flowers. In private, they're gushing over me.

This is extremely vexing. I can feel the mutual attraction, but they're way to scared to meet me halfway so I can seal the deal.

 

[Shaka]

Here are my thought based on what you said :

Do you see how the old beta you panicked when a gorgeous women was talking to him ? like a 9 or something. You were scared right ? Probably lost frame, maybe became creepy or something.
Maybe it's what's in her mind too ?
If your value is that high, then I suggest you date high SMV women. Those women won't feel that way because they are confident in their attaction power.

You could also try to build some rapports and act a little beta, so the girl is in some kind of a comfy state. You reassure her.
But I don't think it's the right choice. Try to bang the most beautiful girl you can and don't settle.

Maybe you should try cold approching high SMV women with an abundance mentality.

 

[Çharismo]

You sound like you are the total package which can be intimidating to women if they don't have much to offer. Combined with your looks and your personality they can't find any flaws or insecurities or as it is said "a chink in your armor". I've had this happen to me as well. Went on a date and the girl was basically a mute and kept staring at me the whole time. I didn't pursue it.

People get like that as well when you have a strong sense of who you are. It's "threatening" when people can't sense any weaknesses off you. However, it's nothing to get depressed about because you shouldn't depend upon any validation from women let alone anyone else for your sense of happiness. You shouldn't be in a deep "slump" over something like this. Consider it a good sign because you are at least making women feel something rather than nothing and most of all congrats on improving yourself/bettering yourself as a man.

The best thing to do is to keep it moving because in actuality you are weeding a lot of women out. Only a very secure girl won't be intimidated by you so keep that in mind. Another thing to keep in mind is to assume attraction. Assume that they are already attracted to you and continue to initiate with -- gentle persistence.

Read this topic just so you know it's nothing to get down about.

Keep the pimp hand strong. :rockon:

 

[hithard]

Are these girls below your level in looks?
Sounds like you are having problems on developing comfort levels on the initial meet. Some times it takes a couple of 'get together's ' before women open up more. You seem to be playing the 'It happens now or you're Goooone' card.
The other thing is sometimes you have to juice these women up enough and lead them to the bedroom. These ones seem to be letting you decide how its going to play out. It is better to lead the interaction to where you want to go rather than second guessing what they think of you. Not to mention second guessing gets you nowhere while leading will get you a final result good or bad.

What is your objective in meeting these women?

Instead of ditching- I'd keep the ones that are worth it in orbit via playful texting, doing activities when you get bored or whatever.

You need to know what woman is going to fulfill what position.
If you just want sex then don't give off a relationship vibe, stick with Fbuddy mode.

 

[tvercettiinnocentman]

Another thing to keep in mind is to assume attraction. Assume that they are already attracted to you and continue to initiate with -- gentle persistence.

Sometimes it's the little adjustments that make all the difference. I've started assuming the sale on a few cold approaches the last two days and the reactions are already different. My guess is that my old approaches were coming across as disingenuous because it wasn't congruent with how the girls were already perceiving me.

 

[tvercettiinnocentman]

Are these girls below your level in looks?

Some were, some weren't. But it didn't matter. I was getting the same reactions regardless of whether she was a solid 7 or a hard 9.

What is your objective in meeting these women?

Depends on the girl and how I feel about her after a date or two. Some I slot for LTR potential, others I date but don't give off the relationship vibe (a sort of take-it-or-leave it type of thing), and the last third are girls I'll keep as orbiters.

You were right, though. I think my failing point was not building comfort from the get-go, on the basis that I didn't believe the girls were already attracted. But by assuming that they already are attracted (e.g., hey, who wouldn't want to strike up a conversation with an attractive guy in the grocery line), I can start right in with playful teasing and push-pull, but maintaining strong eye contact and going right to light touching the moment it presents itself.

 

[Slickster]

I've had this happen in the past a few times.

You are being pedestalized by some of these women. Oddly your efforts to be funny, charming and cool just make it worse. These chicks probably feel you are too good for them or they just don't have a real chance with you.

Charismo said

Combined with your looks and your personality they can't find any flaws or insecurities or as it is said "a chink in your armor".

Sometimes you NEED to show people that "chink in your armor." It doesn't have to be something major. Just something that shows you are "real" and humble. Maybe something you aren't comfortable with or not very good at. Maybe even a story about your past that shows you in an embarrassing situation and shows that you can laugh at yourself.

I will warn you however. When you do begin to connect with these women and they begin to feel comfortable, you will have some chicks who go batsh!t crazy over you. They already have you on a pedestal. Those feelings will magnify tenfold.

Good luck

 

[Atom Smasher]

Age must be posted in profile to post in MM forum. Moved to general discussion.

 

[dk1990S111]

post a picture, maybe then we can tell if you really have an intimidating look

 

[_sideways_]

Question...if successful bradd Pitt or Leo caprio or George Clooney and this guy had so much going for them, what would be the reason for not getting p in v?


personality....dude needs more experience. He stated he was ugly duckling..no dates, no confidence.

ur probably stale to be around.

if a women asks if I'm gay cuz I dress nice, that means to tone it down some.

again, would brad Pitt have this problem with chicks...maybe, if he was boring as hell.

go do action dates where the chick can't focus on just you.

post a pic or no sympathy here because u don't even have a real problem.

you just need game. As it is right now, ur just a high power attorney...with no game. Like a dumb trophy wife. You need a personality...

or play down ur success and looks cuz u don't need to be advertising how great u have it from the get go.

 

[stevo]

You need to build your self confidence up. If you lift I don't see how you still struggle with that. You're a beast bro, the best there is. High school is over, this is real life and we're killing it!

As to your question. If a girls IL is off the roof, why haven't you fcuked her? Did you try? Don't over romanticize sheet, get in those pants!

Also you actually care a lot about if the girl has a good time or not, that's not your job, you're not a clown to put a smile on her face. You're not going to dates with 21 questions to ask her one after the other, You don't owe her anything, not yet, it's just a date, you show me your best hand I show you mine. All you need for these dates is know how you want that date to end and let your mind and body language reflect actions in line with your end goal.

If a girl is not talking much, you might be talking too much.

Remember she's answering questions, you're asking. If you're doing everything right which I can bet a dollar you're not then remove her from that scene.

Talk a walk, go downtown, are these girls drinking? Doesn't seem like it.

Take them bowling, put some alcohol in that belly so later on you can burst a nut on that belly.

Why the fcuk do you dress off gay and want to get laid? That should be the worst compliment you can get. Whatever you're doing, you need to review and make adjustments.

Go through your clothes, whatever doesn't seem right, toss it. Get your bros to go through what you wear, whatever is questionable, toss it.

Build some convo / connection with these girls before you meet if possible, don't be too easy or too available and if she's cold as ice and resisting your escalation then yeah you can bounce. Always escalate.

I've noticed when girls are too quiet sometimes they just want you to shut the fcuk up and make them scream. Their silence is not always a bad thing.

 

[uadialej]

You need more datapoints. "Intimidating" is good with healthy self-esteem women. Consider more active walking around dates as opposed to sitting somewhere. Light, flirty, fun, warm, not serious, 20 questions, relationship talk, negative talk or complaints. Good luck.






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