Successful men that are AFC = paradox?

Buddha_Mind

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Well I would argue:

(a) as much as it is unthought of on this forum because we've all been hurt -- there are actually happy marriages out there

(b) they probably do not revolve around neediness

(c) they probably do not view that person as the "magnificent one and only"

but they probably

(d) really both care about each other and constantly work on the relationship and to avoid things that destroy the relationship

and probably

(e) don't shackle each other either

...I understand Epsi 100% your point, and I don't think there's anything wrong with being an unmarried man in that age group (where most men at that point have been/are married)...in fact, you have your assets and your life, but that doesn't mean at the same time all of those who enter into marriage have the unhappy and unhealthy things you are describing.
 

Boilermaker

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It took you 10 posts and a few hours to get from:


Espi said:
Marraige usually ends up being the absolute worst decision a man will ever make.
to

Espi said:
I actually agree. There are happily married people out there. And I really do think it's great.

... now all you need is a girlfriend.
 

typical

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Burroughs said:
I think these are wise and excellent points.

The problem is most people; men and women both, live their lives under the yoke of fear. Fear of being alone, childless, without a beta provider, without companionship. These fears magnify year after year and lead to the relationship wasteland that is the western (and soon eastern) world.
There is no difference in the Western and Eastern world anymore its all the same just slightly different rules to play with. Some third world countries the men are better off but who wants a third world woman that adds nothing of value to your life except looking hot and being a good maid that gives you sex.
 

Tazman

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I remember a thread where it was like pulling teeth trying to get answer to why some guys here got or plan to get married, and what the difference was between a non-marriage relationship vs being married.

Given all the negatives involving the male side of it, I see its still fiercely defended here as if the potential risks and consequences don't exist.

I mean outside of religious beliefs, what separates a successful non-marriage LTR from a married one? I can only think of one thing.....a risky government defined, legal contract.
 

backbreaker

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Tazman said:
I remember a thread where it was like pulling teeth trying to get answer to why some guys here got or plan to get married, and what the difference was between a non-marriage relationship vs being married.

Given all the negatives involving the male side of it, I see its still fiercely defended here as if the potential risks and consequences don't exist.

I mean outside of religious beliefs, what separates a successful non-marriage LTR from a married one? I can only think of one thing.....a risky government defined, legal contract.
I can say for me, while i love my wife to death, the big issue for me was our son. I grew up in a single parent house hold and i told myself that if there was any way possible, i would never let that happen to a child of mine, because i am fvcked up lol. I have issues.

Secondly, well.. i mean, i'm a catch. I hate to be that blunt about it but I am lol. I can say I love you or I am never going to leave you until im' blue in the face, but every time some new female would come into my life, not talking about, women i'm screwing but just women in general and if they were any type of attractive, the insecurities in he4r would just be through the roof, and then she would always tie 2 and 2 together,l you won't marry me because you want to leave me or you aren't doing fvcking around.. and yes she has issues too, we all do to an extent or another, but alot of women are like that.


There are rules to the game, there are some cards i hold and there are some cards the female holds. The bottom line is, any female worth marrying, in this day in age, is going to want to get married. There is no situation, that i can think of that you can find a woman that is hot, smart, that has everything you want, isn't fvcking crazy, and is going to wait around with a guy because he doesn't believe in marriage, because there are no shortage of men that will marry her. That's the bottom line.
 

zekko

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Tazman said:
what separates a successful non-marriage LTR from a married one? I can only think of one thing.....a risky government defined, legal contract.
You have a good point.

I'm in a non-marriage LTR, I've been living with my girlfriend for eight years.
In my case, the main reason I will most likely marry her some day is that I would like her to inherit my estate without being hit by a crazy amount of taxes. I want to be sure that she's taken care of when I'm gone. I mean she has her own job and all, but I want things to be easier for her.
 

BlackwaterPark

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However you look at it, government sanctioned marriage is a contract. The terms are that your assets become common property and the contract can be voided at any time by the weaker part, upon which they can take half of your cash, your property, etc etc. You know the drill. Any rational guy would admit signing such a contract in the business world would be SUICIDE. Even if the partner is trust worthy, why would you put yourself in the line of fire like that? Just on principle it seems like retarded move.(especially when you know 50% of the time the contract is voided). Why do you guys lose that rationality when it comes to your personal lives?
 

BlackwaterPark

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backbreaker said:
I can say for me, while i love my wife to death, the big issue for me was our son. I grew up in a single parent house hold and i told myself that if there was any way possible, i would never let that happen to a child of mine, because i am fvcked up lol. I have issues.

Secondly, well.. i mean, i'm a catch. I hate to be that blunt about it but I am lol. I can say I love you or I am never going to leave you until im' blue in the face, but every time some new female would come into my life, not talking about, women i'm screwing but just women in general and if they were any type of attractive, the insecurities in he4r would just be through the roof, and then she would always tie 2 and 2 together,l you won't marry me because you want to leave me or you aren't doing fvcking around.. and yes she has issues too, we all do to an extent or another, but alot of women are like that.


There are rules to the game, there are some cards i hold and there are some cards the female holds. The bottom line is, any female worth marrying, in this day in age, is going to want to get married. There is no situation, that i can think of that you can find a woman that is hot, smart, that has everything you want, isn't fvcking crazy, and is going to wait around with a guy because he doesn't believe in marriage, because there are no shortage of men that will marry her. That's the bottom line.
Then how about doing that whole ceremonial, walk her down the aisle thing without signing the contract? I'm from Finland(studying in the US) and in the Scandinavian cohabitation is pretty normal. Yes, beautiful, educated women are perfectly fine with settling down without some draconian big brother pointing a legal gun at the man's head. Who knows how the states will be in 10, 15 years time?
 

sodbuster

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Well, I just got screwed without getting kissed by the child support referee... 1 son off to college,1 left at home.So, I thought I could get child support reduced it went from 805 a month for 2, to 1050/month for 1. We both have him half time and the lawyers are negotiating to see if she will reduce it or if we need to go to court[which almost never overturns the referee]

don't need to touch a stove to know it's hot
 

Burroughs

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backbreaker said:
The bottom line is, any female worth marrying, in this day in age, is going to want to get married. There is no situation, that i can think of that you can find a woman that is hot, smart, that has everything you want, isn't fvcking crazy, and is going to wait around with a guy because he doesn't believe in marriage, because there are no shortage of men that will marry her. That's the bottom line.
This is very true. 100% agree. Top notch women know their value in the modern world.

So what cards do you hold when any women worth your time will eventually want you enter into a contract that favors her 99% under the law?

How do you feel about the fact that as every year of your marriage passes your leverage through the law decreases. I have friends in their 30s and 40s. Started companies. Some went IPO in the late 90s. Their ex-wives still collect on money made 15 years after the marriage ended. That's tough.
 

Boilermaker

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Burroughs said:
This is very true. 100% agree. Top notch women know their value in the modern world.

So what cards do you hold when any women worth your time will eventually want you enter into a contract that favors her 99% under the law?

How do you feel about the fact that as every year of your marriage passes your leverage through the law decreases. I have friends in their 30s and 40s. Started companies. Some went IPO in the late 90s. Their ex-wives still collect on money made 15 years after the marriage ended. That's tough.

^

This. And whatever BackBreaker said in that portion. Very nice stuff,
 

backbreaker

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Burroughs said:
This is very true. 100% agree. Top notch women know their value in the modern world.

So what cards do you hold when any women worth your time will eventually want you enter into a contract that favors her 99% under the law?

How do you feel about the fact that as every year of your marriage passes your leverage through the law decreases. I have friends in their 30s and 40s. Started companies. Some went IPO in the late 90s. Their ex-wives still collect on money made 15 years after the marriage ended. That's tough.
it is what it is.

she gets nothing of anything i have done before this year besides child support, which i would go out of my way to pay. And honestly, anything that i do from here on out, i consider her part of my team, she plays a big role in what i do and how i do it. I think that's fair, honestly. With that said, the vetting process that i put her though was like non other. This forum has taught me well lol. I assure you if it was about the money she would have given up a long time ago.

That issue, IMHO wasn't big enough not to not put a ring on her finger. Money is not the end all be all of life, you make some you lose some.

To me, the end game is marriage, simply because of what i stated in the previous post. At the end of the day, the best circumstances for a man to be in, is to be married to a really really good, supportive, not bat**** crazy wife. Because a woman worth her salt and knows her value, will hold out for that ring. They are trained form birth to want that ring, and even if you convinced that it's not important, see how many times you can spend the night over a friends house (guys) or get caught at Starbucks with a female worker and have someone tell your LTR about it, and the ring not come up. I'm just dealing with real life. It's going to come up, and eventually she will leave, because seh doesn't think you love her in her mind unless you marry her. Taht's just how it is.

spinning plates, becoming a man, dating, bachorhood, are all just screening processes. We learn here to go from nothing to finding the right ones, to even further finding the really right one, to knowing if this is the woman you love and want to spend the rest of your life with, or is this just the woman who is putting it on you because she is running out of options.

But there is no situation, at least as i see it that you are 34, and she is 32, and you have been together 5 years, and she isn't thinking about getting married every freaking day. Even if she won't come out and say it. Because of that, even though you are spinning plates as you get older, you are basically dealing with leftovers, because all of the real quality women are long gone. They are married, because that's what they want.

A perfect example, the freaking girlt hat brught me here. I eventually did turn the tables on her. We quasi dated for about 5 months... but i was at the peak of my game at the time, and honeslty everything she had put me through, i wasn't going to settle down, and espcialy not with her. she was hot as hell and i wanted some. We mutally agreed to go our separate ways and lo and behold, at the age of 23 she gets engaged 6 months later. I know her enough to know she isn't in love. But he fit the bill for a husband, good family, comes from some money.. she wanted to get married. She got married. This is what catches do.

I guess my stance is a quasi mix because "oh i love her oh shucks, let's get married" and "marriage, nevah!!!!!". I (obviously) am not against marriage, the type of women i like and the type i have, are the type of women that every man wants, and those type of women, are not going to settle for anything less than a ring. Knowing how to deal with marriage, how to keep the marriage strong, what to do if it ends, how to deal with the fall out, and how to move on with mjy life, but not shunning marriage for the sake of the institution, even though i am fundamentally against it, it's just the way the game is played.
 

Burroughs

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backbreaker said:
but not shunning marriage for the sake of the institution, even though i am fundamentally against it,
Backbreaker I like your posts and wish you nothing but the best.

I'm sure you know a fair share of ceos and entrepreneurs. What is truly stunning is what you learn from the divorced ones 40 to 60 years old. I'm only 25 so this is manna from heaven. When my elders speak I fvcking listen. The sheer aggression with which divorced women chase the upward income of their wealthy ex-hubands (this is POST DIVORCE by the way) is STAGGERING. It really has nothing to do with alpha or beta. Does a poisonous snake care if you're alpha? No. It wants what it wants.

If you find a good woman it may seem worthwhile to get married. But then what if she changes?

Its a risk that seems good in my 20s maybe..but will be rotten in my 40s. That's life.
 

FairShake

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My job causes me to spend alot of time around people who are dying and die. I was as against marriage as anyone after I divorced. But after watching couples that truly love each other grow old together and die with each other there really isn't any other option for me. I would like to find that woman and indeed I have a prospect.

Maybe she's only an HB6. Maybe a 2. But once you get your share of pvssy it's good to find out about the good person behind that pvssy. I'm only 30 so I think I'm probably younger than most who figure this out but I think I have seen a little bit more of life than most too so there you go.

As an aside, a VERY high percentage of older single patients I work with are dying of alcohol-related diseases. I think even the most jaded of us need comfort somewhere.
 

Rubirosa

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Just like with fast sports cars, it's not the speed that kills you, but the sudden stop which is the one that does it..........
The married life is not 100 % bad all of the time, but divorce for the American male is so unpleasant due to legal society feeling the need to step in and play the White knight.....
The legal aspect in which the now suddenly vindictive women wear like a bulletproof vest as they kick in the door of the soon to be ex husband's financial house that he busted his ass building for both of them because they were "married".......
Other countries ? maybe ....
Here ? No
 

MatureDJ

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Burroughs said:
What is truly stunning is what you learn from the divorced ones 40 to 60 years old.
I remember an engineer colleague of mine who, after his divorce in the mid 80's, was forced to live off of $600/mo (she got the house and the note.) The poor guy was brown bagging baloney sandwiches ...
 

backbreaker

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Burroughs said:
Backbreaker I like your posts and wish you nothing but the best.

I'm sure you know a fair share of ceos and entrepreneurs. What is truly stunning is what you learn from the divorced ones 40 to 60 years old. I'm only 25 so this is manna from heaven. When my elders speak I fvcking listen. The sheer aggression with which divorced women chase the upward income of their wealthy ex-hubands (this is POST DIVORCE by the way) is STAGGERING. It really has nothing to do with alpha or beta. Does a poisonous snake care if you're alpha? No. It wants what it wants.

If you find a good woman it may seem worthwhile to get married. But then what if she changes?

Its a risk that seems good in my 20s maybe..but will be rotten in my 40s. That's life.
then im gone. no different than if i change. if i become a fat slob or a supplementing AFC or i lose my drive and ambition i have no doubt she would have no qualms about leaving and frankly i don't blame her, as im' not the man she feel in love with anymore. if she changed she would not be the woman i fell in love with anymore.


i don't know where people get this hallmark idea that love is unconditional. it's very much conditional.

though i know enough about her and relationships in general to know at least feel somewhat confident she isnt' going to change very much
 

zekko

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backbreaker said:
i don't know where people get this hallmark idea that love is unconditional.
Probably from that "for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, til death do us part" thing.
 
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