Successful cold approaches but no dates

[GrowingPains]

Try building some rapport with them first, and then ask them out. Some women are down to hang out immediately, but some of them want to feel comfortable and get to know you a little first. They agreed to hang out but they probably weren't expecting it to be so soon

This works both ways as well though, you should want to just talk first and feel a woman out before you hang out as well. You might get on the phone with her and realize she's annoying as hell or doesn't share any common interests as you

Isnt that what the date is for?

 

[17 shots]

Isnt that what the date is for?

Yes it's part of it, but not everyone wants to go out on a date with someone that they haven't had ONE real conversation with yet. OP is noticing physical attraction from these women, but that only equals sex. There's a difference between someone wanting to bang you, and someone wanting to date you. They don't always go hand in hand

Also, it's different because he pulled them in person so they have already felt out his appearance/presence. It's not like OLD where you need to be more in a rush to get the chick in front of you somewhere because she's only going off pictures

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

How many approaches have you done?

 

[The Next Big Thing]

Try building some rapport with them first, and then ask them out. Some women are down to hang out immediately, but some of them want to feel comfortable and get to know you a little first. They agreed to hang out but they probably weren't expecting it to be so soon

This works both ways as well though, you should want to just talk first and feel a woman out before you hang out as well. You might get on the phone with her and realize she's annoying as hell or doesn't share any common interests as you

Actually, I was thinking this exact thing. The last girl that just faded away seemed very interested when we met in person but then I just told her through text "hi , nice it was very nice meeting you" and she replied the same thing and I immediately followed up with the invitation for a coffee after that, and I felt like it just went all in a downward spiral from there on. She doesnt have time that day, lets do it other day, sorry I was not responding for so long, I was busy, Im very sorry, I could tommorrow, then fades away after I tell her to let me know what time...

When we met we were speaking for a moment about music, so I was thinking maybe it would be better to just say hi, nice to meet you as the first text and then follow up with asking her to send me some songs she likes and then I send them mine etc...then we can chat for a bit, text some messages and feel each other out, get to know each other just a little bit more before actually meeting up in person.
Maybe that way the girl feels more comfortable and secure and not rushed. Sometimes I just try to do things too fast with no patience....

 

[3agle 3yes]

I've posted here a few times in the past a strategy I use to handle flakes.

Several girls have already given me their numbers after cold approaching them. Every one of them (the ones who gave me the number) looked very "swept of her feet" - very engaged in conversation with me, maintaining strong eye contact, smiling all the time and little bit shy, not knowing what to say next, a bit nervous. With all of them I had a great connection since the moment I approached them, they seemed to like me a lot and they were more than happy to give me their number. I always ask them if they would like to hang out before I get the number and they are always super up for it, even confirm it after the number, like we just agree to go on a date.

It doesn't matter how engaged and respondent they are when you get their number, because when you leave you'll have to start all over again. Think of the first phase as getting their number, it's the only think you should be focused on.

Reading your posts, you're doing it right, by going indirect and having the conversation naturally flow and making it seem to them that they have qualified themselves to you and that they've won you over first, before you ask for their number, many guys don't understand this.

However, where I think many guys go wrong is when they set up 'dates'.

But then when we text they always make up some excuses. Some stop texting after a while, some reply but are always busy, they suggest another day but then dont reply, the apologize, then the same thing repeats, some even agree for a date and ghost an hour before meeting.

Don't set up 'dates', it makes women nervous and it makes them question why would they spent several hours with a man they just met. I know some guys don't believe this, but it's true. They have to commit a few hours from their day and they have to dress up. But at the end of the day, they might not even like you and the day might even turn out to be pointless. Having a good flowing conversation for a few minutes when they first met you, doesn't mean they're going to like your company for several hours.

So what I do is relieve tension and pressure. I wait till the weekend, as most people tend to go out then and don't work and I make sure I'm already out about doing something. Then I call or message them to join me for half an hour and that's it, because I have somewhere else to go later.

So in simple terms, tell them you only want to hang out for half an hour or less. Giving them the impression you'll hang out for a few several hours is what causes flakes.

I also communicate only on friendly terms. I don't say or message anything sexual, in fact, I specifically tell them that we're not going on a date.

Only till you meet with her face to face should start esculating.

Turns out, if meet with her for 20 minutes and there's chemistry and she finds you attractive, she will hang out with you longer and perhaps even the whole day.

 

[The Next Big Thing]

I've posted here a few times in the past a strategy I use to handle flakes.

It doesn't matter how engaged and respondent they are when you get their number, because when you leave you'll have to start all over again. Think of the first phase as getting their number, it's the only think you should be focused on.

Reading your posts, you're doing it right, by going indirect and having the conversation naturally flow and making it seem to them that they have qualified themselves to you and that they've won you over first, before you ask for their number, many guys don't understand this.

However, where I think many guys go wrong is when they set up 'dates'.

Don't set up 'dates', it makes women nervous and it makes them question why would they spent several hours with a man they just met. I know some guys don't believe this, but it's true. They have to commit a few hours from their day and they have to dress up. But at the end of the day, they might not even like you and the day might even turn out to be pointless. Having a good flowing conversation for a few minutes when they first met you, doesn't mean they're going to like your company for several hours.

So what I do is relieve tension and pressure. I wait till the weekend, as most people tend to go out then and don't work and I make sure I'm already out about doing something. Then I call or message them to join me for half an hour and that's it, because I have somewhere else to go later.

So in simple terms, tell them you only want to hang out for half an hour or less. Giving them the impression you'll hang out for a few several hours is what causes flakes.

I also communicate only on friendly terms. I don't say or message anything sexual, in fact, I specifically tell them that we're not going on a date.

Only till you meet with her face to face should start esculating.

Turns out, if meet with her for 20 minutes and there's chemistry and she finds you attractive, she will hang out with you longer and perhaps even the whole day.

Wow thats some good advice, thanks a lot!

 

[Zimbabwe]

Cold approach has a very low success rate, just like OLD. You just have to keep improving urself and keep approaching

 

[SW15]

If an approach does not result in a date, it is a failed approach. If a total interaction does not result in sex, it is a failed interaction.

I get their number as a follow-up to them agreeing to go on a date with me, so the purpose of texting after that is to set the logistics. I do not confirm their interest over text....There is little you can do over text in terms of driving things and increasing attraction IF she is not giving you signs that she wants to do that with you. You get the number to set the date. You them contact her for that purpose. If she is short over text, don't think you can "charm" her via text to get her back on the hook. Just doing so puts you in the wrong frame. She should want to see you. You are not here to perform for her and convince her.

I don't ask for a number until there is an agreement to have a date. There's no point in the number before that. Everything you said here is accurate.

The point I think you might be missing is that due to the nature of cold approach, you're going to have a higher frequency of fizzles than you may imagine. It doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. It's just part of cold approach. In other situations like social circle, women have more of a chance to vet you from the safety of a group setting, over however long she needs to get a sense of whether you are her "type". With cold approach, she only has a quick F2F interaction followed by texting to decide whether you are her type or if she wants to go on a date and take a risk to really see if you are. All this translates to a high failure rate, and it's often nothing you are doing wrong, you must simply accept it as a factor of this style of approach.

The high failure is not a selling point of approaching strangers. If someone wanted to do something with a high failure rate, they could sit at home in their underwear, swipe, and text. Does approaching strangers in-person produce enough success to warrant making the effort of getting dressed, going out in public, creating interactions, etc.? I think it is warranted but it's very subjective. I've had approach sessions where I was so unproductive that I wished I had sat at home in my underwear and swiped. Sitting at home in your underwear and swiping is also a waste of time if you're not a 90th percentile or better or guy.

...good points about social circle vs cold approach. Social circle is a more natural approach that will lead to fewer rejections and a higher success rate. That's a fact, not an opinion. But not everyone has the kind of social circle that is filled with new hot women drifting through it on the daily. One must cultivate it carefully and deliberately over time. I think it's a great goal to shoot for but I haven't found the jackpot there yet

There's a certain appeal about doing the social circle thing. The fewer rejections and unpleasant interactions component is truly appealing. I've never had a social circle capable of providing quality introductions so I've been reliant upon approaching and online dating since I was 16 and asked my first female out on a date.

Social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10 year relationship (and counting) relationship from social circle which does lead to a marriage proposal.

Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circle is not likely ideal for serial monogamist who does have extended relationships but doesn't commit or the player type who tends to have relationships of less than 1 year.

Some examples so you know it is not just you:

Cold approached a girl at the store and she was flattered. We talked 10 mins with a lot of enchanted eye contact.... The kind where there is an immediate animalistic attraction. She agreed to a date, she showed up for the date, and I was making out with her within an hour. Went to a second venue, made out again later. As far as I could tell, everything went perfectly. She got all dressed up for me and even made a comment during the date about it. I texted her 3 days after the date to ask her a question about something we discussed on the date. She didn't reply until the next day. I responded to that and she never responded to me. Never heard from her again.

That would piss me off. It's a good story showing how women operate emotionally and in the moment.

My belief is that there are a couple things that cause this:
1. It can really cause a lot of emotions in a girl when you come out of the mist and approach her as a stranger. Danger, excitement, respect, admiration... And your confidence in doing it is a huge turn on to her. It is also flattering to her. In the moment, she might be interested in you and want to go on the date. But once you're gone, the emotions often fade quickly and she starts thinking about the fact that you're a stranger, and the the magic is just gone. Not enough spark left for her to want to go out.
2. Most girls are anticonfrontational. It's easier for them to give you their number in the moment and subsequently ghost or fade you, than it is to straight up tell you no.

Number 1 speaks to women operating emotionally and in the moment. The anticonfrontational stuff is true and I think is getting worse over time. I'm an early Millennial who has mainly dealt with Millennial women. Millennial women are super anticonfrontational.

I will assume that you are probably texting these chicks literally the same day as getting their number. Bad move. While I dont agree with the 3 day rule in terms of communication I do think you should show some form of having a life outside dating. Wait till the next day and then shoot her a text. Get a small amount of convo going and then disappear for another day. Then hit her up to hang out. At the very least do a little screening first.

Men are logical thinkers and women are emotional thinkers. You have to be able to jerk their emotions in order to make yourself stand out from the other guys who are "nice guys" and over eager with them.

Women dont want someone who anyone can have. There is no value in that. They want what other women want.

It's tough to time out this stuff. In the home phone era of the 1980s-1990s when almost no one online dated (Match.com launched in 1995 but was stigmatized until the early 2000s), you could easily meet someone in-person, have a conversation, and then wait a week to give them a phone call. That was Doc Love's System from the 1990s. I turned 16 in 1999 so I caught the tail end of this era from when I was 16-20. People started getting cell phone in the early to mid 2000s and then website dating started to catch on around this era. When website dating starting catching on in the early to mid 2000s, people who were young like I was then weren't doing much of it. In 2003-04, people who were 26-32 were doing it, but it was still uncommon to be 18-25 and doing it.

Every interaction started having less and less value. 3 and 7 day rules started falling by the wayside for many. I still believe in using time delays as much as possible.

 

[Zimbabwe]

If an approach does not result in a date, it is a failed approach. If a total interaction does not result in sex, it is a failed interaction.



I don't ask for a number until there is an agreement to have a date. There's no point in the number before that. Everything you said here is accurate.



The high failure is not a selling point of approaching strangers. If someone wanted to do something with a high failure rate, they could sit at home in their underwear, swipe, and text. Does approaching strangers in-person produce enough success to warrant making the effort of getting dressed, going out in public, creating interactions, etc.? I think it is warranted but it's very subjective. I've had approach sessions where I was so unproductive that I wished I had sat at home in my underwear and swiped. Sitting at home in your underwear and swiping is also a waste of time if you're not a 90th percentile or better or guy.



There's a certain appeal about doing the social circle thing. The fewer rejections and unpleasant interactions component is truly appealing. I've never had a social circle capable of providing quality introductions so I've been reliant upon approaching and online dating since I was 16 and asked my first female out on a date.

Social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10 year relationship (and counting) relationship from social circle which does lead to a marriage proposal.

Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circle is not likely ideal for serial monogamist who does have extended relationships but doesn't commit or the player type who tends to have relationships of less than 1 year.



That would piss me off. It's a good story showing how women operate emotionally and in the moment.



Number 1 speaks to women operating emotionally and in the moment. The anticonfrontational stuff is true and I think is getting worse over time. I'm an early Millennial who has mainly dealt with Millennial women. Millennial women are super anticonfrontational.



It's tough to time out this stuff. In the home phone era of the 1980s-1990s when almost no one online dated (Match.com launched in 1995 but was stigmatized until the early 2000s), you could easily meet someone in-person, have a conversation, and then wait a week to give them a phone call. That was Doc Love's System from the 1990s. I turned 16 in 1999 so I caught the tail end of this era from when I was 16-20. People started getting cell phone in the early to mid 2000s and then website dating started to catch on around this era. When website dating starting catching on in the early to mid 2000s, people who were young like I was then weren't doing much of it. In 2003-04, people who were 26-32 were doing it, but it was still uncommon to be 18-25 and doing it.

Every interaction started having less and less value. 3 and 7 day rules started falling by the wayside for many. I still believe in using time delays as much as possible.

It's crazy how bad Roosh's numbers are. I assume some embellishment as well, since he was attempting to attract new "clients."


https://www.rooshv.com/sexual-results-from-my-day-game-workshops


I don’t think I shared the number close results from my day game workshops. Out of 397 approaches, my students got 31 numbers while on the workshop, for an approach close rate of 7.8% (1 out of 13 approaches).

Out of all 30 students, 15 got at least one number. So half of the students got to experience the initial stages of success.

One thing I haven’t talked about is how many guys banged a girl he met on the workshop. That number is three, or 10%. Two out of those three got a relationship out of it.

– 1 one of those bangs happened from a girl met in a clothing shop
– 2 of those bangs happened from girls met in the bookstore

Note: NO mention of how attractive the girls were. You can safely assume they were NOT attractive (7 or higher).

 

[SW15]

https://www.rooshv.com/sexual-results-from-my-day-game-workshops

When was this published? I'd like to find this on the internet archive. That's what you need to do with Roosh since he deleted most of his good pickup stuff.

I don’t think I shared the number close results from my day game workshops. Out of 397 approaches, my students got 31 numbers while on the workshop, for an approach close rate of 7.8% (1 out of 13 approaches).

I'm not sure that my historical number close rate on approaches has even been 7.8% and I've been doing non-bar approaching for over a decade. I also read "Day Bang" not long after it published in 2011.

One thing I haven’t talked about is how many guys banged a girl he met on the workshop. That number is three, or 10%. Two out of those three got a relationship out of it.

– 1 one of those bangs happened from a girl met in a clothing shop
– 2 of those bangs happened from girls met in the bookstore

Note: NO mention of how attractive the girls were. You can safely assume they were NOT attractive (7 or higher).

Interesting

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You are trying to justify why this should work when the truth is they aren't interested and are faking it because it's easier to tell you no far away from you instead of too your face for many reasons, firstly for their own safety.

IMO, you are not in the right mindset when you are out "looking for girls" doing daygame. I think it works best when you are simply going about your day and have random encounters with women that way. Much more natural and you are in a better mindset.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

The high failure is not a selling point of approaching strangers. If someone wanted to do something with a high failure rate, they could sit at home in their underwear, swipe, and text. Does approaching strangers in-person produce enough success to warrant making the effort of getting dressed, going out in public, creating interactions, etc.? I think it is warranted but it's very subjective. I've had approach sessions where I was so unproductive that I wished I had sat at home in my underwear and swiped. Sitting at home in your underwear and swiping is also a waste of time if you're not a 90th percentile or better or guy.

Where I evolved to with cold approach is this: Unless you are in an extremely target-rich environment where you can go out for 1-2 hours and run into 10+ women you find attractive and worthy of approaching, then going out with the sole purpose of cold approaching is simply not worth your time and energy (unless you are doing it solely to get over your fear of approach and work on your game - then it's ok because that is like working-out.... building muscle... it is something you have to invest in and there is no other way to do it than to get out and pound the pavement, but in doing this you must remember that your goal is to learn and improve, not to get girls). The only target-rich places I have personally been to have been some places in Europe, and NYC. Anywhere else in the USA is not target-rich enough (for me). But we each work within our means in terms of the women we can succeed with. So if a guy is a 4, he could probably find a target-rich environment in any city. But if you are going for 7's to 9's then target-rich environments are very few and far between unless you are lucky to live in a few special places.

This means my cold approaches only happen as I go about my day. This prevents burnout and wasted time.

There's a certain appeal about doing the social circle thing. The fewer rejections and unpleasant interactions component is truly appealing. I've never had a social circle capable of providing quality introductions so I've been reliant upon approaching and online dating since I was 16 and asked my first female out on a date.

These days, I value social circles even less for meeting women. You will never meet the same amount of women through the circle as you would through cold approach. You get a reputation quickly, as you mentioned, and I have also run into women who also run-game for their own status within the circle. For example, some girls will give you IOIs and then if you make a move on them, they will reject you. That lowers your status and increases hers. Other times women will reject you just because they are nervous about what will happen with their social circle if things don't work out between the two of you romantically, and that too can hit your status with other girls in the circle.

My social circle game is to look for things I enjoy doing and that also might have hot women involved. I join the circle with the purpose of doing what I enjoy. Women are a bonus. I have met women through group-running circles.... those circles that are not tight-nit are the best. Friend-groups not so much.

 

[SW15]

Unless you are in an extremely target-rich environment where you can go out for 1-2 hours and run into 10+ women you find attractive and worthy of approaching, then going out with the sole purpose of cold approaching is simply not worth your time and energy The only target-rich places I have personally been to have been some places in Europe, and NYC. Anywhere else in the USA is not target-rich enough (for me).

In terms of outdoor approaching in Dallas, Katy Trail is the #1 destination for it. Katy Trail is a walking path in Dallas that gets the most foot traffic from 22-35 year old women. A 2 hour approach session on Katy Trail that includes a combination of walking the trail and/or lingering at some stop points, is not likely to result in 10 approaches. Most men will see more than 10 women they find attractive on the Katy Trail in a 2 hour approach session. The problem is that most will be not be approachable due to moving too fast due to running and/or wearing earbuds. Both slow walkers and runners wear earbuds on the Katy.

Also, the Katy is game saturated with every outdoor approaching male in Dallas going to the Katy and mostly wasting their time. The earbud problem makes it hugely difficult to capture attention. However, even though every outdoor approaching male in the Dallas area goes to the Katy at some point, there aren't many men who do this. Non-bar approaching is still a niche activity. Way more men are swiping.

There no indoor retail game a man can run in Dallas and get 10 quality approaches in during a 2 hour period. Some men might be able to do 10 spam style approaches in the bigger malls.

In terms of nightlife in Dallas, most men would also have a difficult time getting 10 approaches done in 2 hours. Nightlife has better quantity of prospects who are more likely to be single than random park, path, or retail venue approaching. It is very possible in non-bar approaching to approach unmarried women who are in relationships. That's less common in bar approaching because those types of women are not going to bars as much. There's not much of a point in bar visits when you're already in a relationship.

This means my cold approaches only happen as I go about my day. This prevents burnout and wasted time.

There's never been a time where I ran into enough prospects not to do dedicated or semi-dedicated approach approaches. Prior to the pandemic, there were times where I lingering in grocery stores longer than it would take for me to actually grocery shop. For instance, if a normal visit to a grocery store would take 25 minutes to complete without approaching, I would be in the grocery store 60-75 minutes if using the grocery store as an approach venue. Lingering is quite common for grocery store approachers. It's even more common for the mall approachers. Men who approach in various mall stores or book stores in strip malls tend to need to linger longer. Same with coffee shop approachers, and some coffee books are a part of book stores.

I have met women through group-running circles.... those circles that are not tight-nit are the best.

I've never done a group running circle. I've done co-ed sports leagues and found that they are difficult to pull from as a random dude swooping into league. Also most men in co-ed sports leagues who are unattached are there to get their penises wet. Some attached couples play on teams together.

The only bicycling groups I have found seem to be older age (50+) and more males than females. When I ride my bicycle alone around common paths, I see far more male cyclists riding than female cyclists. These cyclists tend not to be in organized cycling groups.