Success with women driving away friends

[Jariel]

During the past month it seems I have developed a high level of appeal to women. I put it down to an improved physique and improved confidence, but regardless of the cause, women are coming onto me frequently and strongly.

It feels pretty damn good, but it has started to drive away some of my close male friends. Women often focus their attention on me and rudely ignore my male friends. My friend’s girlfriend has started coming onto me, he found out and he resents me. Another friend told me that he avoided me on Thursday because he was chatting to some women and said “I didn’t want you stealing the spotlight, like you usually do”.

Now today I met up with one of my best friends who was hanging out with his cousin’s girlfriend. To cut it short, this girl and I hit it off and we somehow got flirting and playfully hitting each other, at which point my friend told us to “get a room”. He was looking quite annoyed so I decided to knock it off. A while later he told us he would have to leave before 7pm and this girl looked at me and said “…then we can be alone”. My friend stood up, grabbed his coat and said “I’ll leave you lovebirds to it” before walking out.

It just seems like the more success I have with women, the more my male friends resent me. I love the attention, but I don’t want to lose my friends.

Anyone else had this problem and is there a compromise I can make so I don’t lose both ways?

 

[Alpine]

I can't wait to have that problem, my heart bleeds for you.

If you were in a similar situation to your mate, how would you feel about it? You can also ask him about it when you see him next.

My gut feeling is your mates are more important than some random totty, on the other hand your mate sounds just a bit too sensitive.

 

[So Many Ways]

You may be unknowingly c*ckblocking your male friends and that's what's driving them away. I've had several friends that were much better with women than I, but there was one in particular I stopped hanging out with due to his antics. Whenever I'd be chatting up a female, he'd come in and try to pull her away, basically c*ckblocking. It was like a competition and it got old after a while.

You and your friends need to come to an understanding. If your friend is interested in a girl, back off and let him run his game. The friends I kick it with are better with women than I am, but we have that understanding. If I'm getting somewhere with a woman, they back off and vice versa. There's no selfish attitudes, whoever has game has game. After all, there are plenty of women out there.

 

[JT47319]

Read the Wing Rules.

Understand them, apply them, and tell your friends what the Wing Rules are about.

Then you can divide & conquer knowing that each of you knows his role as well as both of your objectives/targets.

 

[Kaine]

Congratulations man, sounds like you've found the gspot and you're tapping it big time.

What kind of women are you pressing the attraction button to though? If they are random pickups then it should not be a problem.

HOWEVER if they are attached women, i.e. GF's of friends then its understandable. Whether the women are reciprocal or not of your magnetic Don Juan behaviour, if your buddy appeared to be macking on your girl and your girl was receptive.... how would you feel? Yeah thats right WWJD?

I think the solution here is to actively turn down your flirtometer when around these women. Turn the juice back on around the women outside of your circle. Don't screw the crew man, if you have good friends you know your priority.

Great stuff though

 

[Jariel]

Point taken about the c0ckblocking/flirting.

Most of the time this happens I'm not interested in the women involved and I'd be happy for them to get with my friends. Nonetheless, I have been practising my flirting with most women I talk to these days (trying to drop the safe/predictable/nice guy perception) and I guess that's where the problem lies.

These friends are good friends and great guys, so I really don't want this to be an issue between us. Most of the time they're very encouraging about the attention I get - just not when they're feeling pushed out.

Thanks for the advice and I'll take a look at the Wing Rules to get some ideas.

 

[squirrels]

Originally posted by dementia
BROS B4 HOES... nuff said.

Are they really "bros" though? Especially if they're acting like THAT??

Well the obvious solution is to find new friends, but that's the cowardly way out. Effective, but cowardly.

Let's bust out another cliche: "Ain't no fun if my homies can't have none."

When you're in the club and you start talking to a girl, usually she has friends with her. See if you can't involve your friends with her friends...try and SELL your buddy's good traits to the other girl and get him up on her, so he's occupied while you're chatting up the one you WANT instead of sitting there with his thumbs up his ass. For them, it's like going to a restaurant and watching you stuff your face. Offer them a bite. Even if it's only one girl, include him in the convo at least at first. Maybe even beta-out a little bit in front of him, make HIM look like the alpha-male to turn chicks off of YOU and on to HIM.

As for that guy who told you to "get a room," you should have a talk with him about being a jealous d!ck. That's just him "being a buster". That's b!tch behavior and you need to call him on it. (in reality, he's probably into her too and just too pu$$y to make the moves you're making)

 

[A-Unit]

Reality.

Realize, most times friends never viewed you as a threat to them. Once you par-take on bettering yourself, you're enlightened to personal power and become a threat to their mating strategies.

As you progress, MOST guys/friends aren't TRUE friends. The more women you approach, the more you'll be doing THEIR work. It's happened at least TWICE to me over guys I thought were "true" friends, guys I've went to sports games with, guys I've had over my parent's house for dinner, and guys I've lent money to in hard times. Once the full-on issue was in the open, yet unmentioned, it internally tainted my feelings toward them. While I've tried to disregard that, I still maintain some level of mistrust and skepticism toward them.

I don't maintain a cynical viewpoint, I just realize there has to be better maintenance of situations. I stress that it's your life, and if possible, some friends will become emotional deadweight if possible, chanting the "bro's before hoe's" mantra. It stands to reason that "it's me before bro's AND hoe's", so I do what's in my pleasure with mindfullness of others.

Case-in-point:

I was at club for my buddy's benefit, as he wanted to meet up with an old flame who had a BF, but who he still messed around with. She brought a friend along so I had a "partner" while they mingled. We had great chemistry, but I wasn't interested in anything more than some light dating.

Time progressed and my buddy's romantic relationship fizzled away with that girl, while I was kinda connecting with her friend. We visited this girl, the girl I was seeing at her work, busting back and forth. Now he knew I was going in to see her and get the new digits on my lunch schedule, but promptly jumped up and offered HIS number and suggested she VISIT his home.

Two mistakes:
1. He gave his number.
2. He suggested his home.

Needless to say...it was awkward. His rationale as he pointed out when we were leaving was that I'd "meet her and break the ice" when she visited his apartment. Right. Time goes by, and his phone gets shut off, so she buzzes mine one night. Thinking its his sister (same name), I toss the phone to him. Turns out it was THIS girl, and they get to jabbing on my phone and make mutual plans.

We meet up at a bar and have ANOTHER deep connection, laughing etc. As we're walking to the cars, I suggest getting a ride to our's, since she bought a new one and we were parked further away. He didn't like that idea, for 2 reasons:

1. His 'other' girl was their with her BF, so he felt weird.
2. He didn't like the fact, he and 'my' girl talked, and we had the connection.

As I approached my car and he walked, he BLEW up on me. Borderline on the verge of fighting, the girl followed me back to my house to use the bathroom and chat. One thing lead to another and I dropped contact because it was too much drama over one girl. A few weeks later, I find out they're dating. They last a month to 2months, and then he dropped, pure booty call. Yet she now rings my phone wondering where he is, yada, yada. It's all BS and I've erased her number and don't quite associate with my friend as much.

There's been cases of this quite often with him, as he's a good-looking guy in his "super-metrosexual guy way", but he has approach problems, which is funny. I don't. And so if I approach he usually flies up behind me to associate with friends. And when I've tried to do PU's with 2-3 women and him, and usually falls off.

Personal experience is that people close to you are more suspect than others. Not all of them...but I've honestly found college grads (at least my friends) to be a little more moral and virtuous than those w/out college degrees. Perhaps it's because deep down we've been through ****, and we're not competition.

I say heed your guy instincts, and realize the higher you ascend, the more competition will rear it's ugly head. See Hollywood if you need further references on competition.


A-Unit

 

[MindOverMatter]

When you get down to it, all men are competing for the same thing. This behaviour shouldn't surprise you. And bros before hos doesn't always work, since sometimes your bros may not be thinking that way, in which case, neither should you.

I lost a friend (not that good of a friend), because I didn't let him have dibs on this girl. 3 of us were clubbing and ran into some my other friends sister and her friend who was smoking hot. Then when we were seperated from them he tried calling dibs. If he had asked me if it was cool to hook up with her, I would have given him a clear way, but since he tried to call dibs (which in my book translates into "f*ck off she's mine"), I wasn't gonna let him have her and so I ended up hooking up with her, causing him to have a lil temper tantrum cause I wouldn't honor his dibs (wtf lol). What a clown.

Like A-Unit said "me before bros before hos"

 

[A-Unit]

Keep in mind.

If you're dating the upper echelon of women, and most NON-friends would want this girl, wouldn't it stand to reason your friends are no different?

I've heard the following comments.

"If you don't tag her, I'll hit her in the shyter."

"That girl you were dating mentioned the porno (jokingly), she ain't the marrying type, so let's get her into a 3-some." (I ended up dating her for 2 months, seriously, and though she was wildly sexual toward me, disliked casual sex, and disliked bein' a hoe even more.

"You got so-and-so's number. Lemme bust her balls."

See...just like you don't know who in the real world has been to this site or others, you truly don't know other people's mating strategies. I have friends who just ended serious relationships and want pure hooking up. First off, our values aren't quite the same. Secondly, we're in different places in our life, which makes going out tough. So not knowing the TRUE reasons, puts you at a disadvantage if you're overly trusting.

Amongst my friends, I'd NEVER go near their X-girls, or even girls they had an interest in. My friendship is more valuable than the "potential" relationship. Knowing that only two outcomes are possibly from any dating relationship, failure or marriage, I adhere to not dating friends girls. That does not mean THEY adhere to the same program, so I am very guarded about MY TIME.

I hear what you're saying MoM. I've had that happen ALOT. If you're all out to have fun, go for it. And if you're connecting better with a new found girl, then dibs usually goes to that person. We're not drilling for oil and claiming rights here; it only stands to reason the best connection/attraction wins out. It's only a shame when you make the approach and friends ride off your coat tails.

Case-in-point.

I took the AFOREMENTIONED friend to family's beach house. We grabbed some Coronas, stuffed the beer in styrofoam Dunk's cups and strutted the beach. Across the street from family's beach house was a hot, young beauty in only booty shorts and a Hooter's top, wearing no bra. Pretty dope. My father actually pointed her out. I pointed her out to my friend.

A few hours went by and she was on the sidewalk chatting on the phone. My buddy, oggling, but yet to approach, simply starred on. I yelled over.

"Which Hooter's you work at?" [Since there aren't many around, I should know her]

We chatted it up, and she kinda gravitated toward me, commenting on my outfit, etc. He walks over finally, no biggie. She asks about what we're doing, etc. Blah blah.

When all was said and done he says...

"We're bad trying to pick girls up together. We end up going for the same girl, and I saw her first."

WHAT!

"SAW" her first. Does that mean because I SEE a house, or SEE some food, it's MINE? I saw Microsoft, Therefore It's MINE? WTF.

You see, in a way, it was revealed to me that day HOW he thought. This girl was a 7 on my scale, great butt, a bit young, some acne covered by makeup, but cute. We've gone to clubs and he's SEEN 10's...what then? Possession by viewing?

We went to a Hooter's, a new one, and he was semi-intimidated to ask a new girl for her number. She was 7 years younger than him, *****y as hell, too skinny, and he asks...

"So you have bf."

I was like...what kind of supposition is that? It's almost like, well "if you don't have a BF, can I be your BF?" I'm surprised, b/c I USED to believe he had game, but after seeing the small pieces here and there, it's quite weak. Most of it he fakes on his looks, and riding the coattails of others.



A-Unit

 

[DJDamage]

AFC's often don't understand the game, and think life is a fair game.

If you are an AFC and you have a friend that is macking HB left to right, you will resent him for it. I notice that some AFC's mentality is that since you are the guy that is getting alot, they expect you to "SHARE" a piece of the pie like its your duty or some sh1t like that.

Often an AFC will latch onto a person who is successful with women into thinking that through him he will be successful as well.

In my AFC days I was latching onto this guy because he was showing me how to pick up girls in the club. One day he tells me
" listen don't be offended if I dissapear for like 20mins half an hour, its just that I do better when I am alone". At first I was like kinda hurtful that he would leave me alone at the club, so he can go somewhere and "Hunt" a chick

But now I understand that me being total AFC was hurting his game. When he started to chat to a chick I would just stand there beside him and smile like a fool while drinking my drink. While inadvertly ended up c0ck-blocking him from time to time with me trying to jump into the conversation.

 

[MindOverMatter]

We chatted it up, and she kinda gravitated toward me, commenting on my outfit, etc. He walks over finally, no biggie. She asks about what we're doing, etc. Blah blah.

When all was said and done he says...

"We're bad trying to pick girls up together. We end up going for the same girl, and I saw her first."

If you didn't live in Boston, I'd swear we have the same friend lol. I explained it to him, if you see something you want, you man up and go for it, cause if you don't someone else will. Shotgun rules don't work here, they're women not car seats.

 

[A-Unit]

True enough from both of you gents.

It's possible. I feel it's that more guys are LIKE THAT than are NOT like that. Not once have I had a friend try to hook me up with someone, which is why I find myself associating with guys 30+.

First off, they're fun. They truly know how to be lax with girls, mature, and have the means to facilitate MORE scenarios than guys who are only getting started in life.

Second, they're professionals. Being professionals, or at least hard-workers, we maintain strict schedules, so we're mutually respective of our time.

Third, there's a lot to learn from each other.

Fourth, they push you off onto the youngers they can't OR won't tap. My newly divorced uncle does this alot. While he's in good shape and well-off (until the divorce), he still wants to see me tag girls and live vicariously through me.

I agree with what you said Damage, not sure if I did it in my younger years, because there was nobody to look up to, but I've "felt it," on numerous occasions.

Do you guys get the request...

"Ask so-and-so to invite up some *****S so 'I' can score?" BS.

Wing rules not withstanding, more of my friends think by virtue of me knowing some girls, they automatically get dibs on their friends like some free buffet leavins. I'd be embarrased in most cases to introduce them to some of my friends, moreover, it'd hurt my game, because HER friend would be putoff, prompting MY girl to exit so her friend was comfortable and happy again.

Bottom line I've learned after college, go with your gut.

Helping your friends doesn't necessarily help you, OR them out.

If they're not meeting girls on their own, then throwing them a few "bones" will be dangerous territory to tread on. I've had ONE, I repeat ONE, situation that worked out ONLY termporarily, too, and NEVER again. Every time thereafter I tried to work it out, it bombed.

Lesson learned:

Life is separate. In bars on rare occasions does life actually go the way of what grabbing a few girls does look like on the Real World. Don't mix relationships, it's only chemistry for a bad, and volatile situation. What ends up happening then is a conflict between the girl(s) and your buddy. If bad blood develops between any one of the parties, you'll have more drama than a day time soap, and be put in a position where they make it seem like you must choose between one of them. Prevent it now. Only on spring break where there's little likelihood of ever seeing each other again would I dare try scheming with friends. Otherwise...

Go to bars with friends, but meet girls there on your own.




A-Unit

 

[Jariel]

"it's me before bro's AND hoe's"

Great point, and I think this is something I need to consider more often. Putting people before myself is a very "nice guyish" thing to do and, in past experience, ends with me losing out.

Thanks for the perspective.

The girl I was flirting with on Monday (which caused my friend to walk out) got my number and started text messaging me yesterday and has given me the "go" signal.

If I choose to take her up on it, I'll just make sure my friend doesn't find out.

 

[MindOverMatter]

I don't understand what the problem is Jariel. Your friend (the one that took his coat and left) isn't even interested in the girl you're seeing, what the hell do you care if he sees you with her or not? So you're seeing a girl, oh no, is that such a big problem for him? You seeing the girl is not the issue here, him being a b!tch is. Does he expect you to stay single for the rest of your life so he can feel better about his own inadequaces?

Sit his ass down and straighten him out. Hook him up when you can, but he'll prolly blow it.

 

[DJBen]

Funny you should say that. I've lost a few friends recently for that very point, yet I've been hanging out with some very 'laddish' guys ever since then.

Example:

I was at a fireworks display at a pub and I met up with some old friends. A lot of them I hadnt seen in a good year or so [pre sosuave] - when I was fairly out of shape and unconfident. I thought I'd meet some ladies so I dressed up a tiny bit - a fairly tight black t-shirt and a pair of creamy coloured jeans with a few accesseries.

Well as soon as my old pals see me, I hear three of them wondering if it was me. I'd lost the gut, the long hair, my voice had got deeper and more authoritive and I've lost a bit of my southern accent.

The night goes on, and everyone starts saying how I look in great shape, but wouldnt really strike up any real conversation - except the girls they all brought... I figured I wouldnt even go there cause they're my mates, right? So I got a bit bored and got talking to a half-drunk bloke at the bar and we had a good laugh. Probably the best conversation I've had in ages, come to think of it. I lit up another cig, turned around, and my mates GF is stood there beaming at me.. CLEAR interest. Shyt.

So we started talking a bit and I went outside with this girl - I wasnt really paying attention cause I didnt want to go there with her. The more disinterested I was, the more she'd ask me questions and flirt. Eventually SHE asked me for MY email addy. I told her I only get phone numbers off of other people, did some C+F without realising itand about 20mins later she asks what phone I've got - she ends up having a look at it and I turn around talking to that guy from the bar, who is absolutely hammered by now. I get talking to a few girls, forget about my phone, and get it back when I get their numbers.

Again, this time even more bored, I start flicking through my phone and realize she's put her number in there! So I go up to her, hold my phone out and say 'delete your number, now.' that went on for a bit, with her saying she doesnt want it deleted, and I eventually just delete it myself.

My 'friend' comes up to me later, takes a swing at me - right out the blue - and catches me right on the jaw! I'm forced to put him on the floor and call over a bouncer, I would have lost it and just floored him there and then but I wanted another drink . Despite everyone knowing I was telling her to delete her number - even him - he was pissed off at ME?! HE KNEW WHAT HAPPENED! HE HEARD IT! not only did he hear it, HE SAW IT ALL! The only people who wanted anything to do with me that night were all the women - and I realise how shallow some 'friends' can be.

I think the moral of the story is that you cant have friends that are AFC's. Instead of trying to make themselves better, they try and put people below them, and when they dont get what they think they have claim to, they throw a childish tantrum.

A-Unit raised a good point though. Hang out with guys that are older than you. Much less **** goes on.

 

[Jariel]

Your friend (the one that took his coat and left) isn't even interested in the girl you're seeing, what the hell do you care if he sees you with her or not?

I think his problem is that this girl is dating his cousin. But if an attractive girl starts making moves on me, I'm not going to sit there like a dummy.

I mean, after reading what DJBen wrote, I figure it doesn't even help to reject a woman's advances anyway, because as long as you're getting the attention from women, you'll experience resentment and jealousy from guys.

Does he expect you to stay single for the rest of your life so he can feel better about his own inadequaces?

Good point, and you know, I think a lot of my "friends" do think this way. I make an effort in everything I do and I earn my successes - with women or in whatever field I put my mind to. And just as DJBen said, instead of doing the same and trying to improve themselves, they just try to put me below them or hold me back.

I'm actually quite a modest person and I often compliment my friends' strengths and encourage them, but there have been some fascinating insights in this thread which make me rethink the true nature of some of my "friends".

As for hanging with older guys, it is absolutely true that there's less hassle. I have some friend in their late 30s to 40s and I've never had the slightest problem with them. In fact, they're very encouraging.

 

[ToughGuy]

Fvck them

Hey,
If his gal is not his, she is worth fvcking. Why should you care. She is not worth relationship to your friend even. Use her only for Fvck
So buddy, enjoy yourself and also let your friend(s) also enjoy the booty.
After all he is your friend.

;-P

Yours

Tuffy

 

[DJBen]

It's worth noting that I no longer wish to keep close guy friends. I'm realising it's much better to get close to a woman than a bloke.

Avoid deep and meaningful conversations with guys. Keep it light, like you do when you meet someone for the first few times. Unless it's a major crisis, YOU dont need to become a part of THEIR problems. Generally speaking, theres enough problems in your day as it is. You eat, you drink, you sleep, you travel, you work, you organise your social life and deal with any problems you encounter. How much free time do you get to yourself? Do you really want to listen to another persons problem unless it's majorly serious?

I think the best way about it is having a lot of people that you *just* about know. You need a lot of people to know, so every time you go out, you're increasing your popularity but also you're increasing your scope for genuie friends.

How many of your friends would help you out if you were getting kicked in by 3 lads, making in 2/3? Would that same friend let you stay at his place for a while and lend you a bit of cash here and there while you get back on your feet?

I dont know anyone that would do those two things for me at the moment. The question is, do YOU? The chances are, if he's willing to do those things, he wouldnt be too bothered if you were getting on great with a new chick. He'd just leave you to it, encourage when you he leaves, and go about his own business.

 

[Bonhomme]

Moving up

The guys are right. You're simply moving up into a different class, Jariel.

When you get really on top of the game, you'll find there is no competition. Competition comes from a scarcity mentality. I used to feel threatened by c0ckblockers, but now I'm just amused at their futile efforts.

As long as you stand your ground, so to speak, and show that you're in command of the situation, they'll just make fools of themselves. If a guy's blatantly crass and "in your face" about it, you might say something to the effect of: "didn't your mother teach you any manners?" the way any hero might say it to a petty lowlife, just make it clear you're not intimidated and are merely amused at how foolish they're being.

C0ckblocking is insecure, low-status behavior, and as such is a turn-off to any gal who's worth your while. If a gal goes for that sort of thing, I reject them.

If your "friends" can't keep up, don't hold yourself back for their sake. It's time to associate more with guys who are on your level, and are above such overt demonstrations of insecurity.