Structure of Worlds

[sifer]

Originally posted by whistler
Like Voltron

http://www.iep.utm.edu/c/coll-int.htm

The idea that a collective could be bearer of intentional states such as belief and intention is likely to raise some eyebrows, especially in certain Anglo-American and European philosophical circles. The dominant picture in these circles is that intentionality is a feature of individual minds/brains. Prima facie, groups don't have minds or brains. How could they have intentional states? Despite the initial skepticism, there is a growing number of philosophers turning their attention to the issue of collective intentionality. The focus of these recent discussions has been primarily on the notions of collective intention and belief. Philosophers of action theory have been interested in collective intentions because of their interest in understanding collective or group agency.

Perhaps the thought of people fitting in the society and doing what they love and still being a leader is childish to you, but to me it's a possibility.

 

[whistler]

Originally posted by sifer
http://www.iep.utm.edu/c/coll-int.htm


Perhaps the thought of people fitting in the society and doing what they love and still being a leader is childish to you, but to me it's a possibility.

Hey. I like Voltron.

Collective intentionality is very cool as a philosophical exercise or as a perspective on life.

But it's highly unlikely that we can behave as though we follow a collective will.

And, less importantly, it's practically impossible for EVERYONE to be a leader.

 

[DjDreamer]

The only leader we really follow is nature and those who fail to acknowledge or follow nature's rules will bear the burden of facing nature's wrath.

If you know winter will come then it's time to gather up resources so as to prepare for winter. Those who fail to do so will starve and freeze to death.

I would say my outlook on like his aking to tao philosophy. When the rule of nature is followed one simply flows smoothly with the changing of time.

Once again the meaning of life is continuation. Afterall the ultimate rule rebellion is embracing ones death. The ultimate rule rebellion is suicide...

 

[Pook]

A good example of the 'material mindset' would be the dork in 'Fight Club'. Although the movie is.. uh... self-destructive in its portrayal of masculinity, the 'what you own ends up owning you' is right on. I have literally seen grown adult men watch Martha Stewart to 'get the best tips'.

What I would love to do is use a video hack, take Citizen Kane, and turn it into "CITIZEN DILDO!!!" It would be 'an epic for our times' NY Times would say. If Voltaire was alive, he would most certainly write a fiery satire with that title. How easy it would be as well!

I had a good friend who fit the 'Shining Star' persona quite well. He would spend ridiculous amounts of time at bars and *****s, using any musical ability as a flower to attract more *****s. I almost went into business with him but he couldn't keep focus, had to return to seek more female approval. This is when I very much began to notice this type of mentality. He very much valued this element of himself, imagining himself being a 'rock star'. As you could expect, he got very angry when I didn't value being a 'rock star' over getting the business product going. Needless to say, we don't do business anymore.

Most men live in women's world and do not know it. The reason is because many men fear freedom. It is much easier to go through life with a goddess (woman) telling us what to do, how to live, and so on. So most men's lives are divided by the two arch-goddesses, their mother and their wife, with a short span of freedom in the middle. Once in this freedom, men get confused and cling to a woman like a drowning man clings to a life preserver. He cannot create his own world, so he must live in Woman's World. There is a business saying (which I disagree with, but is apt at illustrating the point) that says, "Marriage is for those who fail in business."

A good analogy of the female to male relationship is that of the employer to employee. Women want the best workers. She prefers a young guy but will marry a 40 year old rich man over a 20 year old poor boy. Women know exactly what side their bread is buttered on. (Try telling a woman about financial freedom. Every single time, they go beserk.)

Does the employer want the employee to be happy? Of course. It is the same with your girl. But let us say you like another girl, break up with your current girlfriend, and get together with this girl. Your old girlfriend will look at it as an employer who has lost its best employee and immediately searches for another. But the employer expects this.

What really gets the employer is if the employee leaves to start his own business. You are ok in job interviews saying you want big paychecks, but say you want to start your own business? Pssshhtt! You're gone. Why does the employer fear the entrepreneur more than the 'greedy' employee? Because the employee will always search for security, hence he is already in the 'correct' mindset (in the employer's eyes). It is the same with women. Women like guys who have their choice of women. But they HATE guys who do not need them.

Guys, one thing needs to be made clear: they have been preparing for this their entire lives. While we were playing with cars and trains, the girls were playing with the dolls, imitating Mommy, controlling Daddy, and readying themselves for the role of wife and mother. Women start out just as intelligent as men, but they throw off their intelligence at an early age and focus on making themselves 'pretty'. That extra beauty is to hide the stench of a rotting mind. Men often get confused because we project our own emotions and feelings onto the woman.

Oxide asked what is the solution? The solution is freedom. Get married if you want children. But don't look for women for 'completeness'. Ask any male who is 50 or older.

The point of this thread is thus: Don't go into a soul destroying routine just to win approval from women. Soul destroying meaning doing things you DON'T want to on the gut level. For example, girls like guys with shiny new cars. My car is falling apart but I don't have to pay anything on it. If I was stupid, I'd buy a new car JUST for the girls.

Define how you want to live. Don't let women do it.

Originally posted by MindOverMatter
As for the nice guy, I was disagreeing with Pook because he said that nice guys are only nice because they like to be chivalrous and win approval of women. I think that's totally false, because there are people in the world who are nice, not for any specific motives, but because it's in their nature to be nice. Look at Pope John Paul the 2nd. He was a nice guy, he even forgave the guy who tried to assassinate him. Do you think he is only nice because he lives for the approval of women like Pook says? No.

JP II worshipped women and saw divinity in femininity. He believed Mary saved him from assassination.

This is not a criticism but an observation. Many Catholics have noticed the huge turn toward femininity the Church has been in, especially after Vatican II. Go to your Yellow Books and find the listings of churches and you will find them under female names. I blame the 'bridal mysticism' the hierarchy keeps putting the Church in. Christianity spread due to martyrism, earlier it was a place where men could express their masculinity. It is hard to feel masculine at 'candle vigels' or 'prayer groups'. Before, heaven and hell was discussed. Now, it is 'love and compassion'. But this is a feature with all the churches now. Go into any church and look around. The pews are filled with women. If there are men there, they are most likely married and the most docile male you will see. A Catholic even wrote a book on this falling masculinity called, "The Impotent Church".

Imagine Dirty Harry going to church. He makes his way through all the minivans and stationwagons to get in. Doug Giles elaborates on this metaphor:

Hesitantly, Harry gets out of his ride, straightens his Ray Bans, adjusts his jacket and begins the testosterone death march to the front door of the “sanctuary.”

Ascending the steps toward the entrance of the church, fourteen women and one man greet Harry. The male greeter he’s forced to interface with is the kind of guy you wouldn’t want to have as your young son’s babysitter. I’m talking a Mango meets Dom De Luise amalgam.

The excessively excited quasi-male greeter hands Harry a pastel-colored flyer detailing all the weddings, baby showers, birthdays, picnics and covered dish dinners for that month, and then he plasters Mr. Callahan’s suit with an "I'm a Visitor" smiley face sticker.

Moving past the “greeter,” Callahan is then hit with more contrived hugs than he would face at a Stuart Smalley-run support group. Attempting to avoid this barrage of groping, flabby, clutching arms belonging to people he doesn't know, but now is expected immediately to embrace, he tries to fade from view and take refuge against the wall. Unfortunately for him, he cannot hide because the floral arrangements in the narthex are so profuse that they make an FTD warehouse look like the Mojave Desert. With no other recourse, Harry frantically begins to move two big sprays and one gaudy wreath in a worried attempt to carve out a refuge from this molestation.

Finally, out of reach and trying hard to avoid eye contact with anyone, Harry starts whistling and locks his gaze on the artwork. On his right are six matching prints of fat baby angels in various Little Rascal poses; they look like they have a good buzz going from their mommy’s milk, laced as it is with Diet Coke and Xanax. Book-ending the baby angel prints are two Precious Moments posters: one shows Christ holding a bunny rabbit, and the other one shows Christ skipping while carrying a lamb. On Dirty Harry’s left are three pieces of art which depict Jesus, Peter and John the Baptist, all in aggravated states of angst, looking more like soft-focused and melancholic Victorian women than the men they were: masculine revolutionaries, heralds of truth, and rough pioneers of the greatest story ever told.

Finally it is go time. The service is begins.

Harry strides into the mauve and cream sanctuary, taking his seat amidst a crowd that is made up of 80% women, 1% masculine men and 19% quasi-males.

The music starts.

It is aphoristic, predictable and cliché-riddled. It is subjective, reflective, emotional and a bit erotic, with Jesus being sung to as “my lover.” After two hours of three chords and four songs, the worship leader commands the congregation to turn around and ... yep … here it goes again ... hug three people and tell them “you love them with the love of the Lord.”

Harry can’t take it anymore.

He makes a quick strategic exit before he hurls on the pews because of the over-the-top, saccharine-laced liturgy.

After decompressing for several minutes and firing up a Montecristo #2 in the parking lot, Harry begins to process this little experience. He does the math and comes to this conclusion: if I convert to this sort of Christianity, then I must sacrifice not only my sins but my God-given innate masculine traits with which Jehovah naturally and rightly equipped me.

No thanks.

I’m not buying this kind of Christianity.

There’s got to be something different.

There has got to be a church where a man doesn’t have to sacrifice his masculinity in order to be a believer.

Amen.

 

[whistler]

PUSH. DON'T BE PULLED.

 

[Oxide]

The point of this thread is thus: Don't go into a soul destroying routine just to win approval from women

Now we are getting somewhere. You'd all agree with me when i say that this is MUCH easier said than done. Just think for a second about all the things we do with the idea of attracting women in mind. I bet 99% of our actions can be traced by the underlying "this will help us get better women" cause.

(This is a little cynical

Take a look:

We go to the gym in order to get more muscles...for whom? Women. (granted there are reasons like to beat up a guy who wants trouble and to live longer..although the latter one is semi-bs excuse)

We go to college to get a better job to earn more money to do what? To make sure we have some financial stability so more women are attracted to us.

We read forums like these for years looking for advice, destroying our sight on computers for what? So we get more women.

We buy things we dont need like flashy cars, jewelry, clothes in order to do this.

I dont know about you guys, but all this makes me uneasy. To have our lives so woven with the idea of making all these sacrifices to make more women like us is astonishing.

At the same time, take a look at the woman's world: I would say 100% of all her actions before she gets married are all focused on catching a male. And then 100% of her efforts after the marriage are focused on getting the best life she can get by using her husband.

I think i am finally getting this down... with all the filters we have on that cause us to act a certain way and do certain things in order to attract women, we should really see which filters we need in order to make OUR lives better and destroy all the fake one's that promise us the quick way to seducing women..but at the same time wasting our time and energy.

 

[whistler]

"What?!" you exclaim. "Pull this carpet from mine eyes oh master!"

"I have, already, with the Socratic method, young fool.

"You have already learned the key to happiness."



Buddhism holds that the cravings for pleasure, material goods, and immortality can never be satisfied.

Likewise, not seeing the world as it really is causes suffering.

Fankly, I've never met anyone (or know of anyone) who has honestly sated their desires.

And the only people that I can say are close to truly content have fully incorporated truth-seeking into their lives. There's something to them, and you can feel it as though it's a physical force. If you ever see the Dalai Lama in person, you'll know what I'm talking about.

For Buddhists, this truth-seeking involves prescribed daily meditation. For us, though, the key may be in constantly refining and simplifying our model of life (and then living according to the current model). You know what I'm speaking of because you're doing it right now in this thread. Seek truth and live what you've found.

We habituate, become complacent, and forget how good change feels much too easily.

Unattachment is happiness.

 

[Deep Dish]

Greetings Pook,

I am a certified Criminal Profiler. I went through college studying abnormal psychology, forensics, serial killers, sex offenders, terrorists, and everything bizarre. In my spare time I listen to doctors and read medical journals. I found some glaring errors in what you said and thought you would benefit from being corrected.

The very definition of narcissism is the denial of the self. I thought it was always the opposite, that narcissism was doing what you wanted, and that those who did so were selfish, evil, etc. etc.

You were right the first time. According to the DSM-IV, a person suffers from a narcissistic personality if five or more of the following traits are present:

(1) Feels grandiose and self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements); (2) Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (cerebal narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion; (3) Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions); (4) Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation—or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious; (5) Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favourable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations; (6) Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends; (7) Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others; (8) Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her; (9) Arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted.

Quite clearly, from the clinical perspective, there is the pervasive pattern of indulging in the self. As with any other mental illness, it is only of clinical importance when it negatively interferes with the life of the person or the lives of others, such as the narcissistics who intentionally crash into new cars (“If I can’t have it, you can’t either”).

But narcissistic disorder is very real and very prevalent. A 'distortion of reality' as you call it, or madness, is when people betray their gut instincts and beliefs and go out there with the crowd.

What you are describing more accurately depicts a borderline personality. They have no sense of identity, their personality and value system tends to absorb and mold after whatever personality they happen to be near at the time.

To quote, “Marked, persistent identity disturbance shown by uncertainty in at least two areas. These areas can include self-image, sexual orientation, career choice or other long-term goals, friendships, values. People with BPD may not feel like they know who they are, or what they think, or what their opinions are, or what religion they should be. Instead, they may try to be what they think other people want them to be. Someone with BPD said, ‘I have a hard time figuring out my personality. I tend to be whomever I’m with.’”

Suicide rates for men are at the highest in two points, one is at the early twenties (for obvious reasons). The other point is in middle age. How would you feel about when halfway through life you realize that trying to win praise from women is a fruitless affair?

You are half right. The mid teens to early twenties have relatively enormous amounts of suicides, and then subside, but according to the Centers for Disease Control the two high risk groups are youth and the elderly. “Suicide rates increase with age and are very high among those 65 years and older. Most elderly suicide victims are seen by their primary care provider a few weeks prior to their suicide attempt and diagnosed with their first episode of mild to moderate depression (DHHS 1999). Older adults who are suicidal are also more likely to be suffering from physical illnesses and be divorced or widowed (DHHS 1999; Carney et al. 1994; Dorpat et al. 1968).”

According to the National Institute of Mental Health, “Among the highest rates (when categorized by gender and race) are suicide deaths for white men over 85, who had a rate of 54/100,000. Suicide was the third leading cause of death among young people 15 to 24 years of age, following unintentional injuries and homicide. The rate was 9.9/100,000 or .01 percent.” So, roughly five times more elderly kill themselves than teenagers!

With all that aside...

Women start out just as intelligent as men, but they throw off their intelligence at an early age and focus on making themselves 'pretty'.

I have heard it put this way: every girl likes horses, unicorns, aspires to be a veternarian, and goes through a photography phase; but when they hit their teenage years and their boobs grow, they toss all that aside and develop a preoccupation for boys. (Except for lesbians.)

 

[jiza101]

Some interesting ideas being presented here.

For me, its just actually incorporating these beliefs into my mind PERMANANTLY, not for this 1 hour of my time, of which i spent reading this. I have thought and yes i agree, however, i know when i wake up i will be the same person i was in the middle of the day, without these beliefs.

I need a way to cement these beliefs in my head, just like society cemented the fact that we live our lives for women, not ourselves. Any mind excercises?

 

[Rad]

You basically gotta live the life you were born to live, and give it all you got to give!!

That was taken from "Livin the Life" off the Rockstar soundtrack

Anway, some out there are destined to be sheep. Not us. Rather than sheeps, be the goats.

 

[Create Reality]

Do you even know what Trance is?

Snap.

 

[Phoenix_of_the_ashes]

I thought this was going to be about physiks.

 

[Mr. Cardio]

Excellent discussion. Overall, my question is just this, we know where women stand, and now we must seek to do what WE want for OUR lives........but Pook made this statement that is so true to my life, and that is women like guys who have their choice of women. But they HATE guys who do not need them. I am the type who does not really need women or close friends in general.........and I believe that is what it is to be don juan.....so guys, what is going on here?

 

[proScribe]

For Oxide

I go to the gym in order to build confidence, see results in myself, for a challenge, and most of all because it’s better than sitting at home typing on sosuave.com

"...for whom? Women." no for my own sanity I can no longer be fat or even less than I was a week ago, it is disgusting to me.

"(Granted there are reasons like to beat up a guy who wants trouble and to live longer. Although the latter one is semi-bullsh*t excuse)" wtf? do u work out so u can be better than everyone else? Is that the embodiment of self-improvement, “other people”? Where in self-improvement do u see other people labeled?

I will go to college to learn more about my interests, and expand my mind into new ones. Not that money isn’t important but if u waste all that tuition because u want to make money… you are taking steps back not forward. Why take out the loans pay for college JUST to make money? You don’t need to…

(YOUR HOMEWORK FOR TONIGHT!! READ “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” by Robert Kiyosaki @ your local book store!!!)

“We read forums like these for years looking for advice, destroying our sight on computers for what? So we get more women.” ...that is the current cancer (keyboarditis) of sosuave Im sure u see it everywhere. Attempts have been made to discredit everyone who doesn’t have proof of their success (even discrediting the Pook himself). Fvck the people that I read complaining about a reply being off-topic, because the forums themselves are off-topic. Who knows maybe this place is a bunch of wasted space for the keyboard jockies.

But for those whose lives were changed by this site it is worth more than the eyes of my afc life. Sh*t, if anything sosuave has given me a new pair of eyes. Ones that see far clearer and give me my own perspective. Those are the people that come back to this site and help others become men. Point being this site is about inspiration... people come here depressed about a situation with a girl. This site shelters them from the rain, giving them a choice, a way out “the red or the blue pill neo?” Sosuave has sheltered these saved, but in sheltering them for so long has made them captive again. Think about it, how would u treat the ***** of a man who was given all the ability to act in the world, all the simple things they need to succeed but *****ed out anyway.

The jockies will get theres. Soon they will realize that nature doesn’t give second chances. And since pook, senior fingers, DIESEL, STR8UP, Anti-dump, and so many more; ALL HAVE GIVEN THEM A SECOND LIFE! Nature will win, soon the jockies will realize that they cant stay here forever, they have to either give in to nature or give in to society. It would be so interesting to see in 10 years if this site is alive or dead, probably just another remake like they have done 3 times. It will be a new board new accounts and the same keyboardjockies, still sheltered under new names and still giving bad advice. The idea of this board is very dear to me, but the direction where its going has disappointed me lately.

IT IS SO MUCH LIKE MY VIEW ON THE U.S. TODAY!

There are sites that help people coming of age. This site even does it in the Highschool forum, (which by the way to, has been fvcked over by the keyboarditis as well). And while I see less and less DJs giving me advice, I feel I just barely made the cut and ill be fine on my own. But this site was supposed to be a coming of sexuality, an Awakening(a book by kate choplin for women) if u will for men. I love to read the posts of years past (pook’s stuff aswell) and so much of it applies to current “newer” posts. It has all just seemed so pointless to me lately, obviously I hardly post at all, mostly read and form my own opinion, ive been reading for much longer than that. I took action, and I saw results. However, this site grows less and less inspirational and much less shocking than it once was.

"I am not teaching you anything. I just help you to exlplore yourself"
“Knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do.”
-Bruce Lee

"There may be a great fire in our soul, yet no one ever comes to warm himself at it, and the passers-by see only a wisp of smoke."
Vincent Van Goah

 

[DrBeard]

What the fock is this thread rambling on about?

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by DrBeard
What the fock is this thread rambling on about?

 

[RaWBLooD]

Success is being able to do whatever u want, literally.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

"Women should only ever be a compliment to a man's life, never the focus of it."

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
"Women should only ever be a compliment to a man's life, never the focus of it."

this damn website was never about that, last i was here it was about being the best man you can be, woman were the result of how great a man you are, not the "rating" of how good you are or for approval of the man you are, just that they came when "losers" became Alpha men.

 

[Consent]

Cool insights in the article.