STFU about the price of gas

Evzone

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OK

I am not going to write about my thoughts about gas since you all have your opinions and nobody really accomplishes anything debating over the internet.

I will say this, and it could help you out possibly. I think that in the long run, liquefied natural gas is going to become an increasingly used energy source. It burns cleanly, and it can be produced abundantly in the United States. Natural gas can be liquefied and compressed and used in many existing cars. Problems are environmental regulations that restrict drilling and setting up a distribution system. Nobody cares about ethanol.

If I were you guys, I'd be buying shares of natural gas companies like Chesapeake Energy or XTO. Maybe you could use your profits to offset higher gasoline prices.
 

ketostix

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sactown1 said:
There is no doubt that speculation is a major contributor to the current rise in oil prices, but demand is the biggest player. Increased demand from the emerging economic powerhouses in the east are by and far responsible for most of long-term rise in oil prices. The relative weakness in the US dollar is also a contributing factor, but for the most part the oil story is a global growth story.
You admit it's specualtion, then you say it's about demand. I don't believe it is demand because supply went up and so did the prices. Prices should've dropped but they kept rising. I also don't believe demand in the east went up that much higher than supply in a few short years or months. Supply and demand didn't change much but prices increased by 5x in a short period. What is going to happen when there really is a supply problem?
 

SmoothTalker

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You don't think demand in the east has gone up much?

... Have you turned the news on in the last 10 years? There's more than a billion people in China. If just 1/10 of them start driving, that's 100 million new drivers!

Now picture the same for India.

Now tell me that doesn't change the demand picture just a bit.

And it's not only driving, they're consuming more electricity, a lot of which comes from fossil fuels.
 

sactown1

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ketostix said:
You admit it's specualtion, then you say it's about demand. I don't believe it is demand because supply went up and so did the prices. Prices should've dropped but they kept rising. I also don't believe demand in the east went up that much higher than supply in a few short years or months. Supply and demand didn't change much but prices increased by 5x in a short period. What is going to happen when there really is a supply problem?
Like I said speculation is a contributing factor, and much of what is driving speculation is the weak dollar. You can blame this on Greenspan and Bernanke.

In the long-term the core problem is demand. China has had close to double digit growth in the past few years, you need energy to fuel this growth. Supply has not increased enough to meet demand and it is not expected to increase enough to meet this new demand in the future. This fact is demand is the main driver of oil prices in the long-term, and speculation and the weak dollar a contributor in the short-term.
 

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edger

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Bible_Belt said:
but oil is just a financial market, people, supply and demand, fear and greed. There is no conspiracy, no evil puppeteer behind it all.
GREED is not evil? Of course there's an evil puppeteer behind it. It's the wholesalers. We talked about this at work yesterday. I never realized that there is tons and tons of oil in the world. Enough to supply ourselves practically forever. It comes down to greed. But hey, it's the way of Capitalism. Total cut-throat. And those who support it, have nothing to complain about. No, I'm not a Communist, a Socialist, or what have you, I'm actually a Tribalist. And I don't mean a Tribalist in the sense of going out and living in tepees and huts, but living the same exact way we do now. And how's that possible you might say? Well, you learn to be completely self-sufficient. You learn various trades at a very young age to be able to sustain this current lifestyle. In other words, you learn at a very young age to build a house, build a car, fix a car, grow your own food, process your own foods, package your own foods, etc. etc. etc..so many to name. You learn to do the things that you would normally hire others to do. Like I said though, you learn these skills at a very young age, just like thousands of yrs ago, the way men and women had aquired their numerous skills. Each person knew how to do multiple tasks in many areas to sustain their lives. Some of you might think it sounds crazy(because you don't fully understand and get what I'm trying to convey), but it CAN be done. Nothing in this world is impossible(well maybe some things..maybe). Anyhow, the likelihood of such a thing as I mentioned happening, is very unlikely. It's unlikely because most people don't wanna change and don't wanna part with their money.
 

Master Bates

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Gangster Of Love said:
I'm glad you are speaking on behalf of the "majority". Just where do you get your facts mister? Believe it or not, the "vast majority" do not live in abundance. Would you believe that not everyone has internet. Not everyone has cable tv, not everybody has a nice car or drives just for the sake of driving. Not everyone goes to the movie theater. Not everyone can afford what they want. Not everyone, and I am talking about the so called "vast majority" goes and spends money on gas because they want to.

You remind me of Bush telling the country a few years ago to only buy gas if it is necesary. Is that just arrogance or ignorance. What a braintrust, only buy gas if you needed? Who buys gas just for the love of the sport?

Would $10/gallon be enough reason to complain, or would $20/gallon do it?

Believe me, millions of people in this country are living pay check to paycheck and in debt. It is not just single mothers, etc. These people are having trouble paying their bills, the utility bills, their rent, GASOLINE, and it is not due to the fact that they have expensive hobbies. I am not one of them, YET, but I do know a lot of people who can't afford the luxuries I can.

It is not a conspiracy. It is a business, a dirty one too. A monopoly in terms of it being a necesary evil.
THANK YOU for injecting some f*cking sense into this thread.

The Bat said:
If people used their brainpower, instead of complaining, and money, instead of spending it on useless junk, to investigate and invest, respectively, alternate fuel sources, then we wouldn't have this finger pointing, "You are it." games going around.
Whose fault do you think this is? We have a corrupt government and lobbyists to thank for that, not me, you, and mister 14-bucks-an-hour Joe Shmoe down the street. Although the stupid a$$holes who vote in corrupt corporate puppets don't exactly help.
 

penkitten

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i heard that if we used all the oil that we already have in stock that it could last us the next one hundred years and that we have tons of oil in alaska that we send over seas still being produced and some in tx that stopped being produced twenty years ago. i also heard that the polar bear extinction was a conspiracy due and environmentalists were being paid to say the bears are extinct so that we do not drill for oil anymore.

truth be known, i too, am tired of hearing that no one can afford gas, and food and etc because the market is too high. i am simply tired of hearing it, because i can not fix the problem myself.
however, if everyone shuts up about it, how will the world know that we are all outraged with it?
 

Rhoto

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Do you know how much oil there is left in Texas?

We're draining the world of oil, so that when **** goes down, we'll have plenty.
 

Corona

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Gangster Of Love said:
I'm glad you are speaking on behalf of the "majority". Just where do you get your facts mister? Believe it or not, the "vast majority" do not live in abundance. Would you believe that not everyone has internet. Not everyone has cable tv, not everybody has a nice car or drives just for the sake of driving. Not everyone goes to the movie theater. Not everyone can afford what they want. Not everyone, and I am talking about the so called "vast majority" goes and spends money on gas because they want to.
I was primarily addressing the privileged men on this board. The ones with internet, cable, cell phones, multiple vehicles, and a surplus of money. But I do believe most Americans, in most cases, can take care of themselves and their families if they make the right decisions most of the time (or perhaps by avoiding making too many bad decisions). Most of the people I hear complaining are middle class Americans, who don't know how to be prudent with their money. Nobody made them buy a Tahoe extended cab, nobody made them take a vacation last year, nobody made them go out and get the iphone, nobody made them buy the plasma screen (and the leather couch set), and nobody made them go and have three kids. Those are all their poor choices, and they need to accept them and deal with them.

You remind me of Bush telling the country a few years ago to only buy gas if it is necesary. Is that just arrogance or ignorance. What a braintrust, only buy gas if you needed? Who buys gas just for the love of the sport?
People buy gas for recreational purposes all the time. Around here, people love their dirt bikes, ATVs, off-road 4x4s, and boats. Add in the people that enjoy just cruising around for fun, and the people that drive miles and miles to get to their recreations/hobbies/whatever, and you can obviously see that people are buying up gas that they don't necessarily "need". To these people, the benefits of spending the money for gas outweighs the $4 cost.

As a perfect example, the other day I saw a Ford Expedition passing in the right lane at 70mph, while towing a double outboard boat . God bless America, indeed.

Would $10/gallon be enough reason to complain, or would $20/gallon do it?
People can complain all they want. I don't think there's really much that can be done. We can get into the messy economics of domestic production, importation, refining capacities, and corporate profits, but we don't even need to.

The simple story is that it's becoming increasingly costly to locate and extract oil, and those costs are making oil more valuable. Add a great increase in both foreign and domestic demand, heavy speculation in oil, and a dilapidated refining industry, and the prices of oil and gas are going to significantly increase.

But I'm not at all saying this is "fair". It is what it is.

What are we to do? Protest? Riot? Kick Exxon out of the country? How far would these actions get us?

Perhaps we can vote about this. However, our government doesn't seem to represent our will most of the time, and even if further regulations/taxation were imposed, these would merely add to production costs. Of course, these costs would be passed onto us consumers, with the added burden of higher taxes to support expanded government bureaucracy.

This is a problem too large for a president, a congress, or even a multilateral organization to address. International economics truly is run by the invisible hand.

Believe me, millions of people in this country are living pay check to paycheck and in debt. It is not just single mothers, etc. These people are having trouble paying their bills, the utility bills, their rent, GASOLINE, and it is not due to the fact that they have expensive hobbies. I am not one of them, YET, but I do know a lot of people who can't afford the luxuries I can.
Let me give you a little background on myself. You can call BS on me all you want, but "it is what it is".

I was born a poor minority. Not dirt poor, but definitely below the "poverty line" back in the early 80s. Fortunately for me, I had a dad, and he worked his ass off in backbreaking construction so my mother could go to pursue higher education instead of working. There were times when we had no money for clothes, meat, or even heat (construction slows down in the winter). We never had cable, vacations, nintendo, walkmen, and almost never went to movies or restaurants. Fortunately, I was too little to even realize we were poor, so I grew up pretty happy.

Because of all of our sacrifices, especially my dad's, my mom was able to get a graduate degree and a job that pulled us into the middle class. We pulled through. Sometimes you really gotta realize what is important in your life and make sacrifices in order to survive and pull through.

Ever since high school, I've always worked at least part time, all while going to school. I made about 9k three years ago, 15k the next, then a whopping 24k last year. The funny thing is, even when I was only making 9k a year, I had enough money. I was happy! I had enough money for rent, utilities, food, beer, and insurance payments. Even a little left over for a little entertainment budget. From nine-thousand dollars.

Although, I think "we grow to fit the size of our bowl", and the more income we have, the more we tend spend. Because of the way I was raised, I don't spend much money, so I have some money saved up and invested.

I have a friend from my old job with four little kids. I never asked him how much he makes, but it's probably no more than $13/hr. Yet, he still somehow finds a way to support his kids and put his wife through technical college. Yes, he drives a beat up minivan, shops at wal-mart, and lives in a cramped apartment, but he's a good dad and his kids have a standard of living as good as anyone in developed nations. I'm not sure how he does it, but I have lots of respect for him.

Perhaps I sounded a little harsh in my previous post. I am renovating my spiritual side to try to have more compassion for all my fellow men, and I really do feel about about the people that are struggling to make it.

I feel the worst for are people that are disabled/sick/low intelligence, because it is actually very, very hard for them to find a job, or if they find one they can't make much money. Plus the injured are burdened with medical costs and the like, and the dumb are prone to costly bad decisions.

I also sympathize with people that live in places like say, Flint; just because the economic situation is so bad, you can't reasonably expect people to pull up their roots and say goodbye to their home because of economic conditions.

I am also disheartened from the discrimination that minorities still face; social, poltical, and economic.

I don't have as much sympathy for people who made bad choices. I think a lot of people have kids without considering the unreasonable strain it will put on their budget, and in this day and age there's really no excuse for unplanned pregnancies.

America is the land of opportunity. We are free to educate ourselves, free to work, free to use condoms, and free to improve our lives. I know people sometimes come from "circumstances" and I feel for them, but you gotta do what you gotta do to make it. I know my family did.

Of course, we could easily get into a "quality-of-life" debate, but I think we should save it for another thread. ;)

It is not a conspiracy. It is a business, a dirty one too. A monopoly in terms of it being a necesary evil.
I am no apologist for the oil industry, but I'd like to hear your solution.
 

synergy1

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the best way to deal with higher oil prices is to minimize , or become immune to the changes. Shorter commutes help, so does not having oil heating in ones house. Europe has been dealing with sky high gas prices for years, there is no reason we can't either. This was inevitable, and I am glad its happening now so we actually adjust as a society.

Maybe we'll get better cars like the Tesla roadster become mass produced. Maybe our public transit system might make a profit and not be a joke like it currently is. Maybe companies will have incentive to build near better residential areas instead of typical ****holes they are in now. I certainly don't know, but these prospects seem like benifits to me. less commuting, less pollution, less congestion on major high ways, less grid lock...

FWIW gas is still about the same price as a gallon of milk. Pretty cheap.
 

PRMoon

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I don't know about the rest of you but I have a great job and a riced out four cyl car as a daily driver and a v6 truck for weekends. Until gas prices hit 6 dollars or so a gallon, I have nothing to worry about. It's a beautiful life and I haven't said sh*t about the gas hike in any way.

I'm just living the dream man.:up:
 

Gaucho

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Like you say Bible, it is easy to hedge, there is a mini crude futures contract these days.

Oil is in contango now, whatever you wish to make of it.

For the investment newbs here, no need to argue crude prices. Funny how all of a sudden some 19 year olds are argueing like they know the financial markets like the back of their hands.

Most contracts traded are taking delivery, which rules out mass speculation.

That being said, like any bullmarket, retracements and corrections will occur, infact, after it's recent parabolic run, I am looking for a short and a blow-off top before a resumption of it's longer trend up.

The next energy bullmarket is in gas IMO.

Cheers
 

ketostix

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Well you're going to be hedging against a lot more than just gas prices. Oil prices drive up the cost of all petruleum related things, plane tickets, and basically everything else since everything gets transported. Not to mention stock value usually fall every time oil goes up. Not very many people are real insider trader's who really make money in the markets. Any way you want to slice it high crude prices is bad news for most people.
 

Gangster Of Love

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ketostix said:
Well you're going to be hedging against a lot more than just gas prices. Oil prices drive up the cost of all petruleum related things, plane tickets, and basically everything else since everything gets transported. Not to mention stock value usually fall every time oil goes up. Not very many people are real insider trader's who really make money in the markets. Any way you want to slice it high crude prices is bad news for most people.
Yeah, but what's the big deal about that? I have my internet, my cable/satellite dish, my cell phone(s), my cars(s), my vacations, my multiple memberships to different private clubs, my country club membership, my fishing gear, my boat, my multiple memberships to internet porn, my many pricey hobbies. My, my, my, my, me, me, me, me. I am so in touch with reality and cannot understand why $5+/gallon of gasoline would even be an issue for anybody. Gasoline prices are better when they are higher, not when they were much lower, just a few years ago. I like challenges after all. Gets boring being an elitist and having everything I want. (sarcasm disclaimer.)

Shouldn't we just focus on complaining about people complaining about less petty things like higher gasoline prices, rent/morgage, untility bills and over all higher cost of life, or better yet, focus on complaining about people's posts, or how many threads/posts we are allowed to post each day? :yes:
 

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ProDJ26

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It's funny you mentioned this because everyone looks at me like I'm insane when I laugh at how high gas is. Yes gas is high to a degree but just be thankful that you dont have to pay what the "ultimate price" people are paying. I don't know the names but gas usually goes by regular and two other options. I'm saying be thankful you dont have to pay the highest price that you see.

Also try to cut out all extra trips. You know, forgetting something at the store and having to "double back". And slow freakin down. This isn't the fast and furious, you'll get where you have to go. So yeah gas is high and it is annoying but I'm glad because it's teaching me how to budget money and make extra trips that I really shouldn't be making anyway

:up:
 

djtdot

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Oil is still pretty cheap in America. Here in Canada its $1.35 a liter. And in Dubai, which is in an oil producing country, diesel is $4.8/gallon.

Ofcourse I don't give a cr@p because PT in Toronto is decent, atleast in the area where I live, and I don't need a car :p.
 
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Good post. :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:
It's $0.45/gal in Saudi Arabia and $1.30 in Russia, btw.
 

SmoothTalker

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Care to reference that? I was in Russia 2 years go and it was about $0.8 per liter, which is over $3 per gallon. I sincerely doubt it's gone down since then.

Lol once again, no, most other countries aren't paying less, they just know how to deal with it. (OPEC countries being an exception, but they have bigger problems than gas prices).

BTW speaking of Russia, you guys think the US has it hard because it's a big country and you have to transport everything a long way? End to end russia is well over 5000 miles.
 
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