Step 2: RMM's Journal

[CarlitosWay]

And you just write him off as incapable of even doing them, Carlito. I made the suggestion to RMM as a way to get more out of exercising. I'm giving RMM the benefit of the doubt - that he CAN do them. The choice of whether or not he wishes to is up to him.

Exactly what can cleans do for him, that some face pulls, heavy rows, shrugs and deadlifts can't?!

The only thing I'd recommend for him are these "Seated Db cleans" as they are not hard to learn....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvVEz-tBgvg

 

[Jitterbug]

Exactly what can cleans do for him, that some face pulls, heavy rows, shrugs and deadlifts can't?!

Explosiveness. Speed. Athletic capability.

People go to the gym to get bigger stronger faster, not bigger stronger slower.

The other exercises, while good, are slow lifts. You can grind them out. You can't grind out a clean.

Power cleans are more technique-based, but aren't that hard to learn. Not much harder than learning how to bench press or squat correctly. Don't see anyone stop himself from learning bench press and squat poorly.

 

[CarlitosWay]

Explosiveness. Speed. Athletic capability.

People go to the gym to get bigger stronger faster, not bigger stronger slower.

The other exercises, while good, are slow lifts. You can grind them out. You can't grind out a clean.

Power cleans are more technique-based, but aren't that hard to learn. Not much harder than learning how to bench press or squat correctly. Don't see anyone stop himself from learning bench press and squat poorly.

putting dead lifts as a "slow lift" haha this is laughable. Since when does someone trying to deadlift 2 times their bodyweight or more do it "slow". You better be exploding right oout the gate to get a decent amount of weight up, it might appear slow, yet one is exploding with the hips enganging their whole body in the movement or that weight isn't going no where. You know this. So again what are cleans doing that deadlifts and things like that already aren't? If it's more for the fun factor by all means I understand. Other than that, what the hell?! LOL @ The bigger, stronger, slower comment. This guy is doing deadlifts and sprints, as I also. So are we really missing out that much if we don't do power cleans?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0youqZ2JwI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEmLCju_Xj4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf6H8yZEozw

http://www.youtube.com/user/Power275#p/u/186/BETwt1jbhOU

damn so "slow".

 

[Jitterbug]

For someone so passionate about lifting, CarlitosWay, you are really clueless.

If you don't understand the difference between a slow lift and a fast lift, you should shut up and listen.

And while you're at it, try to do a clean slowly.

RMM: it's worth it to try cleaning. It's the exercise that allows human beings to produce the highest power of all. A clean produces 3-5 times the wattage of a deadlift. If you're interested in being explosive & fast, clean is the way to go. Plus it looks damn bada$$. How many guys at the average gym do you see cleaning a weight off the floor to shoulder level in a flash?

In fact, the single best demonstration of strength is the clean & press: cleaning the weight from floor to shoulder then press it overhead. It expresses every essential element of all lifting exercises in one.

 

[Fuglydude]

Gotta agree w/ Jitter here... cleans, and associated olympic lifts require that you generate high amounts of wattage (power), or (mad/t). There's virtually no other exercises/movements where the human body produces as much wattage as w/ olympic lifts.

Powercleans are good for developing pulling ability from your upper back. My upper back is probably my strongest physical point, and I think it comes from years of cleans and heavy pulling.

Strength athletes will frequently do speed work w/ lighter weights, simply to be able to develop and optimize power output. I've seen big college linemen clean 70-80 kg, when I know they're capable of cleaning 130+ for their maxes.

Power output is just one aspect of fitness, however, and I think combining cleans/snatch/presses/jerks w/ other movements can yield great results.

RMM, definitely start cleaning! Training your nervous system to engage and generate that much power will help bring many of your big lifts up!

 

[Being_the_Don]

Gotta agree w/ Jitter here... cleans, and associated olympic lifts require that you generate high amounts of wattage (power), or (mad/t). There's virtually no other exercises/movements where the human body produces as much wattage as w/ olympic lifts.

Powercleans are good for developing pulling ability from your upper back. My upper back is probably my strongest physical point, and I think it comes from years of cleans and heavy pulling.

Strength athletes will frequently do speed work w/ lighter weights, simply to be able to develop and optimize power output. I've seen big college linemen clean 70-80 kg, when I know they're capable of cleaning 130+ for their maxes.

Power output is just one aspect of fitness, however, and I think combining cleans/snatch/presses/jerks w/ other movements can yield great results.

RMM, definitely start cleaning! Training your nervous system to engage and generate that much power will help bring many of your big lifts up!

Which is why I recommended that he do them. At my gym although there have been a few guys who do the regular military press (and at very light weights by the way), there was only one other guy and myself who ever did the clean and press. He was a boxer, about two inches taller than me and about 15 pounds heavier, he was doing them at about 150 pounds back then. Since I recently added them back to my routine, I'm enjoying them very much. They're a complete body workout - especially when holding the weight overhead for a prolonged period of time. They ARE intense, but that's what heavy lifting exercises are meant to do. :yes:

 

[CarlitosWay]

For someone so passionate about lifting, CarlitosWay, you are really clueless.

Yep so clueless as to acknowledge what works for me and what will get me to my goals efficiently. Powercleans could be fun once learned, but the'ye not some magical exercise.

If you don't understand the difference between a slow lift and a fast lift, you should shut up and listen.

Only guys I'll shut up and listen to are guys like Joe Defranco, Jim Wendler, Dave Tate, the big bodybuilders and powerlifters in my gym. All I'm saying is if a newbie can't do the following he has no business learning a powerclean just yet. As I said in my previous quote, it's a fun exercise and if that's why one is doing it go ahead aby all means.

There's a reason why Joe Defranco doesn't teach his athletes power cleans and also Christian Thibs, it's not the hardest exercise but it does take a deal of time to get technique down and that time could be better spent on many other exercises, especially when they only have athletes/clients for a limited time. This you cannot argue one bit. Guess world class coaches like them are "clueless" also eh?

To quote Jim Wendler

1. First, be sure you can walk and chew Red Man at the same time.

2. Please be able to show me you have some kind of muscle development and coordination and can do pushups, sit-ups, dips, and lunges (without falling).

3. Pick the bar up with good form (i.e. deadlift).

4. Once the bar passes the knees, jump like you mean it.

5. Rack the barbell across shoulders and stand up.

6. Put the bar back down again.

7. Don't be a ****ing ***** with this exercise or wimp it up

Ummm most people I know can't even do 1/2 that **** correctly.


Again people have gotten bigger, faster, stronger with out them. Like I mentioned before they could be fun to learn, that is all. It'll take huge loads with decent technique to get all this awesome power and wattage out of them (lol @ you guys bringing up all these technical terms haha) you guys are boasting so much about.
And while you're at it, try to do a clean slowly.

RMM: it's worth it to try cleaning. It's the exercise that allows human beings to produce the highest power of all. A clean produces 3-5 times the wattage of a deadlift. If you're interested in being explosive & fast, clean is the way to go. Plus it looks damn bada$$. How many guys at the average gym do you see cleaning a weight off the floor to shoulder level in a flash?

If I wanted to take the time to learn an oly exercise/get coached for an exercise , I'd rather learn a power snatch in the end, It's more "badass" than the power clean.....




In fact, the single best demonstration of strength is the clean & press: cleaning the weight from floor to shoulder then press it overhead. It expresses every essential element of all lifting exercises in one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D76g...CBE3A4D26&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfu9T76lRQA&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwK-dE9HytI&feature=related

reminds me , snatch grip deadlifts are a great exercise and not hard at all to learn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuFuvK4JuGM

 

[RMM]

I've just spent the last hour of my life going through YouTube videos...

But anyway, more to the point, cleans look interesting. Benefits aside, the important thing, I'm starting to think, is my head. Looking back through the journal, and leaving the 6 weeks of squats and milk (which, to date, still make me feel like I did something badass ) I seem to stall rapidly with most exercises except, perhaps, the deadlift (so far). Cleans look like they could be a shock to the system I may be in need of right now, I'll be practising form for these while I drop the rest of the fat.

Or seen in a different way, it looks as if I progress best when I change exercises. Which _has_ to be in my head, right? Every workout always comes with a note to "stick to this for months!"

Back to the Standing Military Press, I'm doing them wrong (heh). I looked at them at videos of people pushing them from the chest up - which seems to be the followup of the clean -, and on looking at Carlitos' video it's obvious that I'm going far too low; in fact, I go as low as I can while keeping the forearms as vertical as possible, which is close to shoulder-depth.

So I'm neither doing them from cleans (which would be the point), nor as regular Military Press.

Awesome.

That said, I'm doing an easy week:

Monday:

Weight: 94.5 kg.

Big surprise here. Diet this weekend has not been good - farewell potluck party on Saturday, lunch with a bunch of friends at a chinese "million little dishes" restaurant on Sunday. Way too much carbs, more fat than usual, and probably (relatively) low on protein, though I tried to load on meaty dishes. And yet here I am. I was thinking I probably ate at my muscle, but that doesn't seem to matter because...

Deadlifts:
80 kg x5
100 kg x3
120 kg x1
130 kg x1
140 kg x1
145 kg x5

I felt quite strong with these. Funny thing, when I was warming up I was interrupted by one of the trainers that was wandering around.

T: Butt.
Me: Hm?
T: Don't raise your butt like that.
Me: Raising my butt? Where?

I was raising my butt too much on the start. D'oh. Did a few 60 kg ones paying attention to it, focused on that for the whole workout, and the result is as you see. PR while feeling good. I'm thinking I may be doing something like that with the squats - may help explain why I'm so stalled with them. I'll check on Friday.

And because it's deload week, that was it. Back home to post and drink my shake

 

[RMM]

Tuesday: Cardio, sprints.

My current sprints regime is getting easier. Awesomely enough.

Wednesday:

Weight: 93.3 kg

Uh... Woah, big drop here.

Benchpress:
40 kg x6
50 kg x3
60 kg x1
70 kg x1
80 kg x5

If I had had a spotter, I may have gone for the 6th. Meaning, I may have had a bit in the tank still. Oh well, I don't like pushing this too far without a spot, and it's starting to look good.

Squats on Friday. Can't wait - gonna check the form real close.

 

[EFFORT]

RMM what is your goal?

Cleans/snatches are an incredible exercises for athletic performance, but not worth it imo for guys just trying to look good with there shirt off. No point in risking an injury on exercise that is unnecessary for your particular goal.

With that said if you have some personal goal outside of athletics of just wanting to clean/snatch a lot or want to feel powerful or whatever then fair enough.

 

[RMM]

RMM what is your goal?

Cleans/snatches are an incredible exercises for athletic performance, but not worth it imo for guys just trying to look good with there shirt off. No point in risking an injury on exercise that is unnecessary for your particular goal.

With that said if you have some personal goal outside of athletics of just wanting to clean/snatch a lot or want to feel powerful or whatever then fair enough.

I don't really have a clear goal (in the sense of, say, "I want to be competitive in this or that sport"). However I'm enjoying all the overall improvements I'm making.

I like the fact that I can touch the hoop in the basketball court now.

I like the fact that I can run for 3-5k at a good pace without losing my liver.

I like how I'm moving weight I could scarcely think of not a year ago.

For now my primary concern is to get rid of the excess (getting close I think) and make decent numbers with the big lifts; putting a number, I'd say 140 squat, 100 kg bench and whatever dead when I get there. I get the feeling I'll get the squat before the bench.

I'd say that my ultimate goal could be to try and improve as many aspects as possible. Which is perhaps kind of silly, considering some of them are contradictory. Maybe I should train like for a decathlon - it's about the most complete thing I can think of.

The other thing is that I get bored of routines if I do them for long. That doesn't help I guess.

 

[RMM]

Thursday: Cardio, Sprints.

I was low on energy on Thursday, it was surprisingly hard to do the 6th round.

Friday:

Weight: 93.2 kg.

I don't understand why my weight loss is so... Well, irregular. I _am_ watching my diet rather well.

Squats:
60 kg x5
80 kg x4
100 kg x1
110 kg x1
120 kg x1
125 kg x5

Yes! **** that felt good. I was a bit dizzy when I racked the weight, but pushed through well. Focusing strongly on the hip drive _and_ on keeping the whole back solid, to avoid lifting unevenly and forcing a Good Morning. Worked well.

If I can keep adding even a little while I'm cutting down I can consider it all good. So I guess I can say:

1. Good form is good.
2. Deloading every so often is good too.

 

[RMM]

Monday was a holiday here. I forgot to check the time the gym was going to close, and went there too late. Heh.

Tuesday:

Weight: 92.7 kg

Deadlifts:
80 kg x5
100 kg x3
120 kg x1
130 kg x1
140 kg x5
145 kg x5
150 kg x1

Getting hard to keep piling up the weight. And as usual, my hands felt really raw at the end.

Pullups:
13
9
7

Compound Row:
210 lbs x10
220 lbs x7

Lat Pulldown:
165 lbs x11
175 lbs x8

EZ Bar Gunz Curls:
Bar + 22.5 kg x11
Bar + 25 kg x6

Reverse Wrist Dumbbell Curls:
11 kg x10
11 kg x7

Ab Work:
(30 medicinal ball crunches + 1m Plank) x2

Decline was very packed today again.

And that was it. Some of the numbers are slightly down in reps, but the DL keeps going up, so it's all good. Can't expect much more while I'm cutting I guess.

 

[EFFORT]

I don't really have a clear goal (in the sense of, say, "I want to be competitive in this or that sport"). However I'm enjoying all the overall improvements I'm making.

I like the fact that I can touch the hoop in the basketball court now.

I like the fact that I can run for 3-5k at a good pace without losing my liver.

I like how I'm moving weight I could scarcely think of not a year ago.

For now my primary concern is to get rid of the excess (getting close I think)

I assume you mean excess fat? Post up your diet

and make decent numbers with the big lifts; putting a number, I'd say 140 squat, 100 kg bench and whatever dead when I get there. I get the feeling I'll get the squat before the bench.

looks good

I'd say that my ultimate goal could be to try and improve as many aspects as possible. Which is perhaps kind of silly, considering some of them are contradictory. Maybe I should train like for a decathlon - it's about the most complete thing I can think of.

Would be fun for sure. Nothing silly about it your goals are your goals

The other thing is that I get bored of routines if I do them for long. That doesn't help I guess.

I just wanted you to think about it a little like you did. Its good to have some sort understanding of what your trying to achieve

bold

 

[RMM]

Thanks for the feedback EFFORT, here's the spreadsheet that I've been using to track my diet. I've been following DIESEL's guide for cutting up, started at 3,000 cal and been cutting down systematically each week 200-250 cal. I'm at the lowest now, 1,600 cal.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgtNszBAN0x7dC1Yd0ZxbXJwTGdfUXAwT0FEQWx6OGc

It goes like this:

Breakfast: 2 pieces of fruit.
Lunch: Tuna salad (tomato, carrot, tuna, random leafy greens)
Pre-workout: 1 piece of fruit, phosphagen.
Post-workout: Skim milk protein shake, phosphagen.
Dinner: Chicken/fish + veges.

Supplements are vitamins B, C, and E, CLA, Zn, Mg, Glucosamine.

I have a cheat meal on Wednesdays, pub dinner with my pub quiz team - which is usually a chicken dish with fries and salad; and a chocolate if we win the random draw for them, heh.

I've looked up some online workout regimes for decathlon, and they look insane - and hilarious. Dunno, I feel pretty damn good about myself after going to the gym for almost a year now, so I may actually try it. And many of them include cleans to boot. Just don't want to get too carried away, I have a... "history" of doing silly things when carried away.

 

[RMM]

Wednesday:

Weight: 92.3 kg

Incline Benchpress:
Bar x6
40 kg x5
60 kg x2
70 kg x1
72.5 kg x5
75 kg x5
77.5 kg x5

Whew. Question, I've noticed that it's slightly easier if I bring the bar down around the vertical of the neck (as opposed to the chest). Am I doing it wrong or something?

Pec Fly:
210 lbs x11
220 lbs x6

Hm, maybe it was too big a jump.

Standing Military Press:
Bar x6
30 kg x2
40 kg x1
42.5 kg x8
45 kg x5

Hm, wow, these sucked today.

Bent Over Dumbbell Fly:
12.5 kg x12
13.5 kg x10

High Feet Pushups:
26
14
12

Low on energy today, and I just realized I forgot the upright rows, haha. So, lifting two days in a row may not be the best idea, but at least I'm back on track now. Ah well.

 

[RMM]

Man, I'm beat today.

Thursday: Nothing, I hit my knee on the corner of a table and got a nice bruise to show. It was a bit too swollen on Thursday, so I gave it a rest. Friday was much better (icepacks work great).

Friday:

Weight: 92.1 kg

Squats:
Bar x5
60 kg x5
80 kg x3
100 kg x2
110 kg x1
120 kg x5
122.5 kg x6
125 kg x5

I believe I have just proven that telekinesis exists, I did the last rep with pure mind power. Rep five at 122.5 was a bit hald-assed, so I did an extra with proper depth.

Hack Squat Machine:
165 kg x20

Hack Calf Push, one-legged:
230 kg x12
240 kg x10

Prone Leg Curls:
170 lbs x8
155 lbs x11

Woah, these are harder than the sitting leg curls, guess that working against gravity does that. However, these feel much more solid (as opposed to always have the feeling of slipping forward with the seated ones).

Abs:
(30 medicinal ball crunches + 1m Plank) x2

The only decline bench in the gym seems to be awfully popular lately. And I'm pretty damn sore today, heh.

 

[RMM]

Been off for a few days due to an annoying cold. I am going to blame the lack of food for it hitting me that hard. Also, during these days that I've been sick I've been eating more than usual, I don't like starving myself when sick. Still not feeling 100%, but that said...

Wednesday:

Weight: 91.7 kg

Deadlifts:
80 kg x5
100 kg x3
120 kg x1
130 kg x1
140 kg x1
145 kg x5
150 kg x3

Lifted the bar about two inches on the 4th, and my body just went "**** you!" and dropped it. Bah.

Pullups:
10
10
8

Gonna do straight 10 sets now, until I can hit 3x10. That third set is the killer.

Compound Row:
205 lbs x10
215 lbs x7

Lat Pulldown:
160 lbs x11
170 lbs x9

EZ Bar Gunz Curls:
Bar + 20 kg x11
Bar + 25 kg x5

Reverse Dumbbell Wrist Curls:
11 kg x9
11 kg x7

As usual, no abs on Wednesday.

Well, now come the questions. Cold aside, I feel I'm really running low on fuel here - not so much that it's hard, which is expected, it's that I'm flat out failing to hit the reps. I'm considering, to finish off this cutting cycle:

- Accept a bit of a loss and drop some weight on the exercises to keep this up for another 2-3 weeks.
- Start ramping up calories again and keep business as usual, trying to keep adding weight.
- Change workout.
- Other?

 

[RMM]

Thursday: Bit of light jogging, I went to watch the A Team and dinner with friends =)

Friday:

Weight: 91.2 kg

Incline Benchpress:
Bar x6
40 kg x5
50 kg x2
60 kg x1
70 kg x5
75 kg x5
80 kg x5

Spread the load a bit more, a bit less volume to keep adding to the max. All good.

PEc Fly:
205 lbs x12
215 lbs x8

Yep, that's more like it.

Standing Military Press:
40 kg x12
45 kg x7

Okay, that's better too. Again, bit more spread for the weight.

Bent Over Dumbbell Fly:
13.5 kg x12
15.5 kg x10

Decline Pushups:
30
15
13

Abs:
(30 medicinal ball crunches + 1m plank) x2

Felt like a good workout today.

 

[RMM]

Monday:

Weight: 93 kg

Uh... I suppose a weekend of booze, pizza and miscellaneous junk food while watching footie is not without consequences. Oh well. But on the other hand, the workout today was quite good:

Squats:
60 kg x5
80 kg x3
100 kg x1
110 kg x1
117.5 kg x5
122.5 kg x5
127.5 kg x5

Last couple of reps weren't deep enough, I think if I had done the 4th properly I'd have failed on the 5th. So I'll stick to this weight next week. Still, better than when I got nailed at this weight on 3 reps.

Hack Squat Machine:
170 kg x20

Hack Calf Push, one legged:
240 kg x12
250 kg x10

My unstoppable progress on the calf push continues!

Prone Leg Curls:
165 lbs x10
165 lbs x9

Hm, didn't remember I did bad with less weight last week. Meep!

Decline Crunches:
+20 kg x30
+20 kg x26

Down a bit, so easy for an exercise to slip down when you haven't done it in a while.

Well, we'll see how much of the extra weight I shed this week.