Staying lean while bulking...any tips anyone?

[Oxide]

Numbers numbers numbers. You look at the scale and see that you dropped 8lb and go WTFFF now I need to bulk..and you put on more fat by eating crap.

The unltimate solution is eating healthy. all the time. And it is a major pain in the ass for me when there is all this tasty food around me.

In the last two weeks I've had:

Ice cream bar (once a year thing!)
5-7 candies
slice of chocolate pie
all sorts of russian and jewish salads.


Now I like eating those things. I want to have an ice cream once in awhile. I don't want to continuously guilt trip myself when I eat food or drink juice. That's the thing though, this is one big process. Once you start you can't get away - you can't say "I won't worry about it" because you ALWAYS will.. So what is the solution? Eating healthy..semi healthy? working out 7 days a week just so you can eat all you want?

 

[Quiksilver]

I find for me that numbers make me neurotic almost. It's very hard to live a normal and relaxed lifestyle if you have numbers going through your head with everything you eat and do. It's easy, for me atleast, to slip into some obsessive mode about h&f, and feel guilty if I eat something bad.

Although when you're just starting out with a healthy lifestyle I think it's beneficial to be obsessive, because it helps get all the right habits in place. Now I can't go a day without thinking how much sleep I'm getting, whether I eat every few hours, whether I eat breakfast or not, how much protein I get, and whether I went to the gym that day.

Now it's all habit to do that stuff, so I don't have to worry about it as much. I think once you get started and get conscious of everything you're doing, you can relax and go into a consistent pattern for months and not worry if you fall off the rails afew times because at that point you KNOW when you're doing the wrong/right thing.

I say pack away the scales and callipers and have some confidence that you're doing the right thing, and that the mirror will tell you everything you need to know.

I keep a calendar on my wall and tick off every day that I go to the gym, and every day where I eat healthy, I find just doing that once a day is enough to keep me on track, and remind me of everything I'm supposed to be doing to stay fit.

One thing...What is cheat food, and how often is it good to have it?

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

Bulking (adding fat) is the optimal way to gain size and strength yes, but it comes with fat gain, often at a poor ratio of fat gained to muscle gained. If bodyfat isn't a concern do this.

No. You can clean up the diet and make sure you're not eating junk or drinking too much alcohol (empty calories) and you won't get too much fat gain. Yo will stil get some... but a better ratio than if you were to do it half-assed. A cleaner and more restrictive bulk.

But I don't find eating fairly clean most of the year requiring way too much nitpicking. You follow general rules such as carb timing, cardio, restrict junk food, but I never suggested counting calories. In fact I'd say it was easier to follow a 'loose' eating plan like this all the time than have periods in which you have to ensure an excess or a deficit.

Carb timing? You're giving advice to newbies.

Here's a newbie. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=119831&page=2

He needs to eat more meat (as well as everything else) and do more weights.

But what is he doing instead? 'HIT on the eliptical' for legs and the treadmill (too bad HIT involves weights). And he's counting calories like he's gonna wake up fat overnight, and he's carb cycling if you read further down. If you look at his progress pics he's made no visible progress.

You're not talking to gym rats here. There are mostly newbies on the site (read some threads and you know what you are dealing with) who don't know **** about proper training. You gotta give them basic advice, this is only going to confuse them. Too many variables.

For those of us already with a solid muscular base a steady recomposition is a better choice.

That may be true. But what's the ratio of members here who weigh over 200lbs to those that weigh way, way under that? (assuming average height)

Pretty low. And guess who is going to read the advice? Obviously not the person who has a good training regime and nutritional base. They're already doing what works.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

One thing...What is cheat food,

Anything that is not included in your current clean diet.
Helps you keep your sanity. Avoids binges.

and how often is it good to have it?

Depends on the amount.

You can eat a small piece of chocolate daily if you like. Or a tub of ice cream in a sitting once a month. It all depends on the quantity.

I like to have a cheat meal once or twice a week. Pizza, a few cookies, maybe some cake. (Yes, a medium piece of cake is a meal to me.)

Stuff I rarely ever have and really miss.

 

[mrRuckus]

the mirror is your most reliable guide, unless you want to get in the habit of having someone else do a 3-spot caliper test on you on a regular basis. even then, such methods are much better at tracking your progress than spitting out a magic number that says 'this is how skinny you are'... a mirror is cheaper and simpler, and as long as the weights are going up & you're not developing a gut, who cares?

I'm currently doing a recomp right now.

I got calipers the other day for $12. I measured my chest, abdominals, and thigh. These 3 spots were very easy to do by myself and gave me the same measurements every time i tried.

Then i put it into the appropriate formula:
http://www.linear-software.com/online.html


I tried doing the suprailiac spot which supposedly is the most accurate at predicting your overall body fat but i have no idea if i ever found it. Every time i tried i got a different number and ended up giving up... but the other 3 areas were easy and don't require more than just you to do.

I guess only 3 spots isn't super accurate but i don't need super accurate. As long as i see any combination of those 3 measurements shrinking i must be losing fat. Or in this guy's case, at least staying the same.

And i personally can't tell the difference of myself in the mirror. My girlfriend a year ago would always remark how big my shoulders and all that were getting but i couldn't tell the difference myself. I'm just blind that way. Actually measuring occasionally can give me an idea of what's going on. I'll probably do it every 2-3 weeks and keep a record of it and not be anal about it by doing it every day.

p.s. i showed up for the start of softball season the other day and a teammate who hadn't seen me in a few months kidded me that i shouldn't be taking steroids... sweet.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

I got calipers the other day for $12.

Sounds like a good deal. Where from?

 

[Warboss Alex]

Call Me Daddy, you make good points however very few people on here need to just 'bulk' for a coupla years to build their base - Kev07 is one of them and I told him as much.

There's lots of guys on here whose goals are to grow some muscle and look good while doing it. This is, in my opinion, the way to do that. If someone asks me how to gain muscle with no regards to bodyfat gain, I recommend the seefood diet.

But lots of guys ask how to gain muscle and lose fat concurrently. Again, I tell them how to do it. If they're not prepared to do it that way, they can do bulk cycles and cut cycles.

I just refuse to oversimplify things, on principle. I will give the information and people can do with it what they want. If they don't want to apply it, that's their issue. I've had a few people PM me or post publically that my advice served them well.. that's good enough for me to keep posting it.

What you say works, what I say works. We are both biased towards our methodologies and that's fine: two ways to skin the proverbial cat!

 

[mrRuckus]

Numbers numbers numbers. You look at the scale and see that you dropped 8lb and go WTFFF now I need to bulk..and you put on more fat by eating crap.

I do?

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

But lots of guys ask how to gain muscle and lose fat concurrently. Again, I tell them how to do it. If they're not prepared to do it that way, they can do bulk cycles and cut cycles.

This is a good approach. However I have yet to see the mythical cutting while bulking routine. Even on a bodybuilding think tank.

What you say works, what I say works. We are both biased towards our methodologies and that's fine: two ways to skin the proverbial cat!

True.

 

[guayaballer]

so let me get this straight 30 mins of brisk walking on a treadmill with incline 6 times a week in the morning plus a diet of high protewin and healthy fats with timed carbs will keep a persons bodyfat in check. and then add in heavy lifting you will get muscle and have that six pack in place. hmm i guess we found our answer

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

so let me get this straight 30 mins of brisk walking on a treadmill with incline 6 times a week in the morning plus a diet of high protewin and healthy fats with timed carbs will keep a persons bodyfat in check. and then add in heavy lifting you will get muscle and have that six pack in place. hmm i guess we found our answer

Haha. Guess again.

Thats what Warboss does for his. You have to find YOUR specific formula. You can use it as a template... but you sill have to tweak it. Personalize it.

 

[Warboss Alex]

so let me get this straight 30 mins of brisk walking on a treadmill with incline 6 times a week in the morning plus a diet of high protewin and healthy fats with timed carbs will keep a persons bodyfat in check. and then add in heavy lifting you will get muscle and have that six pack in place. hmm i guess we found our answer

The macro numbers, carbs, amount/type of cardio etc will all depend on you but yes, that's the basic idea.

 

[Being_the_Don]

I'm after the lean, yet well-defined look. What I'd like is some input on whether or not anyone else has taken this approach and how it's working. Up until a few days ago I had been doing the treadmill on fat burn for 30 minutes plus a 5 minute cool down. I don't do free weights, I do the pulley weights doing 3 sets of 10 exercises per set (30 total). A couple of weeks ago I cut the treadmill to 15 minutes with a 3 minute cool down, but I decided to take a break from the treadmill this week to try something else. As for weight training I increased the weight and number of sets I do on the pulley machines. As of this week I'm doing 5 sets at 10 per set (50 total). I work on my upper chest, back, triceps, biceps, calves, upper thighs. I gradually increase the weights and number of sets when I feel ready for it.

I used to just so ab crunches and cut back on my food intake before joining the gym. I had a weight loss of about 30 pounds in about 8 months. But I only weigh myself every 2-3 months. On the second day after joining the gym I do my weigh in and that's when I know I got my weight down by 30 pounds. I then thought I'm doing good and I haven't changed my diet that much. Anyway, three months later I weigh in again (and this also includes the change in my work out sets ie increase on the weight machines and number of sets) and I dropped 3 pounds. As far as I'm concerned that's a bit low. On the other hand I have a lot better endurance and I can tell the difference with respect to how much I can lift on the machines. I'm going to increase the weights again although I'll keep the number of sets the same for a while.

I'm thinking the weight loss is fat but th reason it's not as much now is because I'm adding on muscle mass? I have felt I can eat a little more since I'm going to the gym BUT I haven't really eaten anymore than I had during the time I already had the 30 pound weight loss BEFORE joining the gym.

I'm moving toward my target weight class and I'm making progress but I'd like some advice on what others are doing. Where I can make adjustments in my workout.

 

[Fuglydude]

Fugly, if you're a fitness model and need to stay at a certain bodyfat then you need to time carbs very strictly and keep your protein and fats high. This is of course dependant on your metabolism but in general this is the best way especially if gaining considerable size isn't a goal

I'm an entertainer bro, so I gotta stay lean. Its weird, I'm 5'8" - 163-165 right now, not sure about bf% but most people think I weigh 180-190 or higher... I'm an ex high performance athlete (bobsled/sprinter), and have around 7 yrs of consistent training under my belt.

Right now I'm consuming 150-200 g protein per day w/ 5 separate meals. Cals I'm not really keeping track of. As for thermos, I'll pulse with 24 mg of ephedrine w/ 200 mg of caffeine about an hour prior to training. I get insane workouts that way!

As far as other supplements:
- MRP powder (i've recently moved away from whey isolates for whatever reason)
- Udo's oil, fish oil caps,
- Anti-ox (vit. C, beta carotene, E, separately w/ another anti-ox blend)
- Also take tribulus, but 1/2 of what is recommended.
- I have glutamine, but I'm sporadic about using it.

I'm thinking about entering a fitness modelling competition next year as well. I just dont' think I have the mass for bodybuilding comps.

Carb timing is tough sometimes cuz i'm on the road, but i do try and restrict simple carbs to the morning and post-WO. Would you recommend using a heavy carb mass gainer type shake post WO? ... I'm thinking about using NPH insulin to make sure that stuff gets sucked up into my muscles, but still very scared to mess w/ insulin!

 

[Warboss Alex]

Being_The_Don - start a new thread with your full diet and routine

Fuglydude - increase your protein to 350g or as close to that as you can get every day and your gains should start moving

Also post your whole diet

ps - whey isolates far superior to MRP's

 

[Warboss Alex]

Oxide,

You gotta find a sustainable diet bro. Either put one day a week aside to eat whatever you want (eat til you're sick) then get back on the wagon the rest of the week. Or cheat every other day, or even every day. Too much cheating will put fat on you - if you can tolerate that then do this, otherwise you'll have to restrict inappropriate foods to keep the leanness you desire.

Basically if you're not gonna eat cleanly or cheat on a regular basis, you'll have to do lots of cardio to take care of excesses, but all the cardio in the world is not gonna save you if you're knocking back pizza and cheesecake every day.

It's not easy, otherwise everyone would be ripped

 

[Fuglydude]

Being_The_Don - start a new thread with your full diet and routine

Fuglydude - increase your protein to 350g or as close to that as you can get every day and your gains should start moving

Also post your whole diet

ps - whey isolates far superior to MRP's

I dont' have a diet that's set in stone, but i do believe in common sense eating...My schedule w/ school, work and gf are all over the place so it makes it very tough to have a set diet. However, I do try and eat every 3 hours, and consume lotsa protein.

Man... 350 g is tough to do... I'd prolly have to up to 6-7 meals per day and take in 50 g w/ each meal... That's crazy, but doable... I'll definitely try this out. Any tips on making consuming this much protein easier? Also, I'm guessing I'd need to get dietary enzymes too... Should I be worried about caloric intake as well?

I have around 12 lbs of a whey isolate/concentrate mix right now...its around 80% protein per mass. (Its the optimum nutrition whey stuff)... so i'll switch to that.

thanx again for the help.

 

[mrRuckus]

This is a good approach. However I have yet to see the mythical cutting while bulking routine. Even on a bodybuilding think tank.



True.

How is it that you recommend www.ironaddicts.com on one thread while being completely mystified by losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time? Iron Addict has people do this ALL THE TIME.

I got the calipers from bulknutrition.com.

 

[Oxide]

Well must be doing something right I guess, was talking on the phone at the lockerroom yesterday after workout - look at the mirror and go "damn! that looks nice!"


The retarded scales sure do not help. I leave the house at 170 and arrive at the gym at 180..?!

got a question - when i wake up, i usually do not want to eat. so ive been waiting an hour to eat, how bad is this?


So alex, lemme see if i get this right:

at 170 (not LBM) i'd be eating around 300g protein, 150g carbs 200g fat? (guestimating)

 

[Warboss Alex]

The numbers don't look right bro. What are your goals, age, training experience, what's your current bodyfat, how easily do you gain? Post some more info.

(you can PM me if you don't want to post it here)