Starting over @ 47

[KissSnatcher]

Greetings all!

This is gonna be a long one- you've been forewarned...
I'm 47 y/o. Musician, self-employed, played solid game in my 20's. Settled down with a good woman in my 30's and had a satisfying family life with her for 11 years. We split amicably (in late 2005) and I was back in the jungle. Sucked in by my first Cluster-B (histrionic), got out of that one within a couple months. Met an actually decent gal and things moved along nicely until she died from complications from a routine surgery. At this point I was pretty damn numb but still had some fire in my belly.

Met what I thought to be the coolest, most fun, "missing piece of me" in the late spring of 2006. She swooped in, honeymooned me, set the hook nice and deep, and for the next 3.5 years proceeded to drive me slowly insane. Turns out she is textbook BPD. I escaped (seriously- you don't "leave" a cluster-b; you escape them) late summer of 2009.

Laid low and regrouped for a bit, got my pecker wet as needed with a couple FWBs, and all was well for a while but I wanted more.

Pickins are slim around here. Rural area. I'm a city guy living in hicksville. Swilling beers at the local tavern doesn't cut it for me. i've got skills and I've still got game but it's nigh-impossible (or so it seems) to meet what I deem to be "quality". I need more than mediocre. I need intellect, wit, strong sense of humor, emotional intelligence. Sure, if I can meet 'em i can get 'em. But that's not may real reason for coming here, humblly asking my bothers for guidance. Stay with me please...

Caught a bad case of the fuggits this spring/summer. I gave up on myself. I shut down. I started telling myself that this (being alone) was my lot in life. I bought in to my own negative self-talk. I gained weight. Stopped eating right. Didn't tend my home and property in the manner in which I used to pride myself. I gave up on me.

Late summer I began to snap out of it. Lost the weight. Started rebuilding and participating in life again. Starting to get my confidence back. Slowly, yes, but heading in the right direction. It was mid October when the email came in:

BPD psycho ex sent me a transparant message with the sole intention of receiving my forgiveness/absolution. Seems there is a hint of a conscience underneath her psycho exterior but also she just needed to feel better about the sh!tty way she treated me. I swear they (cluster-Bs) can literally smell it through the ether because it was only days before her email that I had finally let go of my anger/hatred/disgust towards her and I felt good about it. I had only then accepted that it was never about me, it was all about her, and I just happenned to be the sad sack that allowed myself to get caught in her web. It could have been damn near anyone. And three days later her email comes rolling in...

I ignored it at first but it began to eat at me. Instant knot in the gut, adrenaline reaction, and I began to soften. I entertained the silly notion that perhaps, over the past year, she had perhaps grown, resolved her issues, etc., ad nauseum, and that perhaps now that she had been out there on her own for a while she might have recognised the error of her ways and was ready to step up and act right. Yeah I know- silly me!

On that same token, though, I did my best to remain detached, figured I'd milk it for some wild sack-time, if nothing else, and cut and run at the first sign of crazy. I did, in fact, do just that. But here's the rub: I played with fire and although the burns are only minor this time (and I deserve every damn one of them for not listening to my gut, my own advice, and my true bothers in friendship in my life) there was some damage done. All in all, though, I'm okay. I never let her "in" this time but as those who got the memo know: Cluster-Bs are damn good at their sick game. So yeah there are some marks. Nothing I can't recover from but this time I don't want to go it alone. I'm asking you, my cyber-brothers, for some help.

I'm laying myself out here and I'm willing to listen, to learn (never too old to learn), and I'm gonna try my best to check my ego at the door, do as I'm told, and allow you good men to help me along the way to reach my goal(s).

My goal(s):

1. I need help finding potential partners. Yes "partner". I'm 47 in a few weeks. I want to settle down and enjoy my comfortable life with a good woman. Yes- I believe that there ARE good woman out there. Good woman seem to hide or perhaps I'm wrong about that. If I'm thinking wrong here then set me straight!

2. I would appreciate help in weeding out the sh!tbirds with a minimum of time invested.

3. I could use some help with ideas as to where to meet quality. I can walk into any hick bar in the county and get laid. Not interested. Although I'm financially stable times ARE tough- I'm in the worst state in the union as far as unemployment so I'm not down with dropping coin while wasting time.

With my Cluster-B experience I can spot 'em right away (or at least I can see the first of the many red-flags) and have no problem nexting them.

Example: 35 y/o hb8, sharp, witty, horny, and a total defective cluster-B (appeared sane but tipped her hand quickly) has been pressing me hard. The minute I spotted who/what she was I nexted her with nary a thought. So I'm not 100% AFC. I'm not hopeless. I just need some solid guidance.

I'm considering myself, here and now, to be an infant, a newbie. Where to begin?

Thanks for reading this long post. I'll answer any questions candidly to prove that your investment of time in me will not be in vain. I just need to start fresh and I'm willing to do my part, to listen to and follow direction, and I'll do my best to make your investment in me worth it.

Thanks.

KS

 

[Miles28]

Hi KissSnatcher,

Read your post. Am sure many people will give good advice but I just wanted to say you sound like a really good guy and I wanted to wish you the best of luck!

Miles

 

[jophil28]

2. I would appreciate help in weeding out the sh!tbirds with a minimum of time invested.

Wouldn't we all !

I have to say that you appear to know a lot more than most "noobs" who show up here all cut and bleeding..
Perhaps you do not need as much assistnce or advice as you think you do.
Why not re-locate to a bigger town or city ?

 

[KissSnatcher]

Met what I thought to be the coolest, most fun, "missing piece of me" in the late spring of 2006

Id look at that first, im at a similar point to yourself, albeit in England and not living in the sticks, the location is fairly irrelevant for now though.
do you really need someoe else to complete you?

I no longer feel that way- I was speaking about my state of mind back then. Having come out of the family life there were some huge holes in my life. I've since filled them with my music, my work, and other hobbies and projects. Were I not feeling like something was missing I would not have ignored the countless red flags of the BPD.

I can be alone and not lonely so I consider myself healthy in that regard at this time.

Thanks for your reply,

KS

 

[squirrels]

Wouldn't we all !

I have to say that you appear to know a lot more than most "noobs" who show up here all cut and bleeding..
Perhaps you do not need as much assistnce or advice as you think you do.
Why not re-locate to a bigger town or city ?

Agree with jophil. It sounds like you are going to have trouble finding what you are looking for in your current locale.

What is it you do?

 

[Desdinova]

Welcome aboard! You've sure had an interesting time in life thus far. I'm a recently divorced and getting back into the game myself. The ability to game never seems to leave, but there's a few things that I've been trying to tune up, let alone the issues that my marriage left me with.

1. I need help finding potential partners. Yes "partner". I'm 47 in a few weeks. I want to settle down and enjoy my comfortable life with a good woman. Yes- I believe that there ARE good woman out there. Good woman seem to hide or perhaps I'm wrong about that. If I'm thinking wrong here then set me straight!

My marriage has taught me one important thing in life... That piece of paper is really meaningless. You can have that and still not have a relationship. All it does is cause legal problems if things don't work out.

Another thing is I really like having my own space. There really isn't a need for me to live with a woman. Spending time with a woman is fantastic, especially in the beginning, but after a while you get sick of her 5hit laying around, the smell of her period, her shoes, etc. I'd be perfectly happy having a LTR without actually living with the woman. I'd be cool with spending nights over and keeping our individual spaces. After two failed relationships where I've lived with the woman, that sounds like the ideal setup for me.

2. I would appreciate help in weeding out the sh!tbirds with a minimum of time invested.

That's why you date multiple women at once. If you get a ****ty vibe from a woman on the first date, toss her away. There's no need to pursue and invest time into something that isn't going to work, but you must be willing to risk losing a few hours to know that you don't want something.

3. I could use some help with ideas as to where to meet quality. I can walk into any hick bar in the county and get laid. Not interested. Although I'm financially stable times ARE tough- I'm in the worst state in the union as far as unemployment so I'm not down with dropping coin while wasting time.

Women are everywhere. Meet them everywhere. Quality women don't all hang out in one group. You can find a quality woman in a bar or in a bookstore. You just need to weed out the garbage for find the quality, and there's LOTS of garbage out there.

Good luck to you on your quest for quality!

 

[KissSnatcher]

Wouldn't we all !

I have to say that you appear to know a lot more than most "noobs" who show up here all cut and bleeding..
Perhaps you do not need as much assistnce or advice as you think you do.
Why not re-locate to a bigger town or city ?

Thanks for the boost. I value your input greatly Jophil28.

Relocation is not an option at this time. I have two elderly parents who require my assistance on a regular basis as well as the fact that I'm self-employed and own a retail/service business. Celebrated 16 years in business this past Friday in fact. Were I not tied to this area I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

You know what? You're right- I don't need too much help as much as I want to establish myself here in this forum and instead of going it alone, per se, I think I'm gonna open up and talk things out as they occurr in the future.

My thoughts regarding where I'm at today:

It's winter here. I'm thinking I'm gonna lay low and use this winter "down-time" to my advantage. I've been getting psyched for nuking the last of my vices: Smoking cigs. I will be a non-smoker by year-end. Except for a good cigar and my pipe now and then. No more cigarettes though. They stink!

Business/cash-flow is tight. Gonna knuckle-down and rebuild the nest-egg a bit.

Come spring I'm going to take a class of some sort. Cooking or gardening or something else fun... My hobbies are solitary: playing guitar, gardening, reading, hiking. I need to find something a more social. I've got time to figure it out seeing as how it's hibernation season for the next few months. And no, Jo, I can'tdance! "Can't" is not a regular part of my vocabulary but I can't do it. I've got great timing as a musician but somehow I lack the "dance" gene. God knows i've tried. For 47 years in fact...

I've still got my confidence/****iness although I've got room for improvement. Even superficial contact with a Cluster-B sucks the good energy from ya so I've got work to do in that department.

I feel like my game is weakest on intruductions/first-move/getting to that first date. Once I've got them one-on-one I'm good. Gotta study-up on that one. I've just recently begun practicing by starting conversations with any gal I encounter from the gas station couter girl to the random gal who's getting out of her car next to me in the parking lot. I need help getting beyond the "opener" and talking it to eye-to-eye convo, give/get the digits, etc. I also am weak in the rejection department; I have trouble reading their interest/lack of interest level. Hey- I can't be kickass at everything, right?

Any suggestions on where to begin my studies? This site is overwhelming so a pointer in the right direction and a swift kick in the ass would be appreciated!

Thanks (and thank you too Miles),

KS

 

[KissSnatcher]

Desdinova-

Rather than butcher up a bunch of quotes i'm just gonna free-form this one:

I am of the same mind regarding my space. By "partner" I don't mean marriage or even live-in. i'm not sure that I would want to open my home up to another body on a full-time basis. I keep a clean home and I've got a nice setup. I have no desire to move my guitar and amp into the basement becasue it "doesn't go with the curtains". Ideally, like you, I'd be totally cool with two houses, time together at each other's places, and time apart. In fact that was the sitch with the psycho BPD: She had her place, I have mine, and in my eyes it was ideal. In her eyes, well, never mind. Her eyes are crazy ;-)

I also concur with dating more than one at a time. Until recently I was a serial monogamist. Not any more. I fully intend on dating as many as possible. The problem at this point is I'm damn selective now. I won't waste my time unless she meets certain criteria. But yeah- I'm gonna "spin a few plates" whenever possible.

You are right about "there are women everywhere". I'm am choking a bit on the opener, though. I have a problem picking up on their interest level unless it is blatant. And frankly, the ones who are blatant about their interest have tended to be the psychos. I DEFINITELY need help in the opener- getting past "hello". I liken it to my business that I own:

They came in the door so I know they are interested. I can sell no problem. If I had to cold-call on my customers I'd have been out of business in the first month.

I recognise my weakness: I need help getting past that clever one-liner and getting to the digits. Once I get past that initial intro and follow-through I'm golden. I need to learn how to "open". I need to learn how to "cold-call". Once I've got their attention I can most certainly close the sale...

I'm using this winter to study up- really school myself, as i want to be 100% on top of my game come spring, when a young man's fancy turns to...

I guess I just don't know where to begin. Like anyhting else it seems that getting started is the hardest part.

I really appreciate your detailed reply. Thanks!

KS

 

[Desdinova]

I have no desire to move my guitar and amp into the basement becasue it "doesn't go with the curtains".

Funny you mention that because after I ended my marriage, that's one of the first things I did - move my amp and guitar upstairs.

You are right about "there are women everywhere". I'm am choking a bit on the opener, though.

The approach and the opener is where I really shine. I can pick something about the situation or the person and make an instant comment about it without any anxiety whatsoever. It's maintaining the conversation where I really suck. I gave the Mystery Method book a read and it suggested having 'canned' material ready. By 'canned', it just basically means having default stuff to talk about such as having a selection of interesting personal stories you can tell. I still need to work on the delivery of my stories, but practice makes perfect.

 

[Desdinova]

I have no desire to move my guitar and amp into the basement becasue it "doesn't go with the curtains".

Funny you mention that because after I ended my marriage, that's one of the first things I did - move my amp and guitar upstairs.

You are right about "there are women everywhere". I'm am choking a bit on the opener, though.

The approach and the opener is where I really shine. I can pick something about the situation or the person and make an instant comment about it without any anxiety whatsoever. It's maintaining the conversation where I really suck. I gave the Mystery Method book a read and it suggested having 'canned' material ready. By 'canned', it just basically means having default stuff to talk about such as having a selection of interesting personal stories you can tell. I still need to work on the delivery of my stories, but practice makes perfect.

 

[KissSnatcher]

Funny you mention that because after I ended my marriage, that's one of the first things I did - move my amp and guitar upstairs.



The approach and the opener is where I really shine. I can pick something about the situation or the person and make an instant comment about it without any anxiety whatsoever. It's maintaining the conversation where I really suck. I gave the Mystery Method book a read and it suggested having 'canned' material ready. By 'canned', it just basically means having default stuff to talk about such as having a selection of interesting personal stories you can tell. I still need to work on the delivery of my stories, but practice makes perfect.

My guitar and amp just waved at yours...

I too can initiate. I'm clever, witty, and articulate. I can almost always find something funny or clever to say to break the ice. It's the next step: Taking that ****y/funny/clever comment to the "conversation" part. Not sure I could use canned responses as it just wouldn't flow. I can think fast and I'm good under pressure so I'll keep it natural/real for the time being. I will, however, research the Mystery Method and see what it's all about.

I guess I just need to push myself and throw out more openers. I suppose it would be good practise to initiate with everyone at, say, the grocery store, with no intention other than to practice, huh?

I've got a little more Christmas shopping to do this week as well as groceries. I'm going to make it a point to just start "throwing it out there" to anyone and everyone with no intention other than to practise. If they're a cold fish no big deal- I'll just hit the next aisle and do it again on the next hapless shopper. I'll post the results of my experience in the coming week.

Carry on brother,

KS

 

[Desdinova]

I tried to do the DJ bootcamp a while back, and I got stuck at the conversation part. There's nothing wrong with becoming more social and it'll help you get over approach anxiety. But yeah, unless the other party contributes to the flow of the conversation (which they rarely do), it's really difficult to maintain on your own. Hence, the canned material.

 

[jophil28]

I too can initiate. I'm clever, witty, and articulate. I can almost always find something funny or clever to say to break the ice. It's the next step: Taking that ****y/funny/clever comment to the "conversation" part.

This is what I do when I know that I"m in one of those "low gear" moods.

I approach with some mild C&F..
I then scope out her appearance ,dress style, shoes, hair and make a comment or an enquiry about some aspect of it. Keep it simple.
You are now close to talking about a woman's favorite subject - herself. Even the smartest quality woman will be a willing participants in a procees that strokes her need for male attention.
Listen and respond .
Then just keep repeating this by picking up on new information that she volunteers as she replies to your questions of clever comments.

Try a practise run with that approach.

 

[Fuglydude]

Hey man,

I can't offer any real additional advice that hasn't already been covered already except for the following:

Qualify the living SHIIIITE out of any potential LTRs' that you're considering. I think way too many people in our society jump into LTR's w/o qualifying their partner and end up getting burned in the end.

An LTR's a bit like a high risk investment where you put all your capital in one investment... if the investment falters then you're pretty screwed! Therefore, it is in your best interest to do your due diligence and really study and research the investment. A general rule of thumb that I use is to really get to know your LTR prospects for 6-12 months prior to committing. Guys here seem to think the friends zone is a curse... IMO however, you have no problem w/ the friendzone if you're an attractive high value dude who's ALWAYS SEXUAL...Based on how you describe yourself, you're a high value guy and shouldn't have too many issues pulling quality tail. The only issue I can foresee is that you're dealing with a limited number of quality women given your location.

I've only had one LTR in my life, and I just turned 29. We're engaged. We were close friends for around 5-6 months before going exclusive. I'm very happy in the relationship and I like to think she is as well.


I can't really suggest too much more as you've got your shiiite together, and have considerable more life experience than me. I can point you to my recent 1000th post in which I highlight some stuff I've learned since joining this site. You probably know most of it as its quite common sense, but hopefully you can gain something from it:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180109

Hope this helps! Good luck.

 

[KissSnatcher]

This is what I do when I know that I"m in one of those "low gear" moods.

I approach with some mild C&F..
I then scope out her appearance ,dress style, shoes, hair and make a comment or an enquiry about some aspect of it. Keep it simple.
You are now close to talking about a woman's favorite subject - herself. Even the smartest quality woman will be a willing participants in a procees that strokes her need for male attention.
Listen and respond .
Then just keep repeating this by picking up on new information that she volunteers as she replies to your questions of clever comments.

Try a practise run with that approach.

Where do I send the check?

THAT is what I need- somewhere to go after the ice-breaker. If there is nothing else after the approach there is ALWAYS their outfit, hair, ear rings, etc.

See? 47 y/o, been around the block once or twice, but somethign as simple as that is worth it's weight in gold to me. As I said- I'm weak in that area so this simple suggestion is just what the doctor ordered.

Thanks!

KS

 

[KissSnatcher]

Hey man,

I can't offer any real additional advice that hasn't already been covered already except for the following:

Qualify the living SHIIIITE out of any potential LTRs' that you're considering. I think way too many people in our society jump into LTR's w/o qualifying their partner and end up getting burned in the end.

Of this you can be certain! Just this morning I was running some of my "must-have's" through my brain. One of the advantages to middle-age is that I'm not *quite* as hormonally driven and therefore it IS possible to think with the right head...

I journal daily and I began working on my list of must-have/must-be's last evening. I'll post it when it's complete.

An LTR's a bit like a high risk investment where you put all your capital in one investment... if the investment falters then you're pretty screwed! Therefore, it is in your best interest to do your due diligence and really study and research the investment. A general rule of thumb that I use is to really get to know your LTR prospects for 6-12 months prior to committing. Guys here seem to think the friends zone is a curse... IMO however, you have no problem w/ the friendzone if you're an attractive high value dude who's ALWAYS SEXUAL...Based on how you describe yourself, you're a high value guy and shouldn't have too many issues pulling quality tail. The only issue I can foresee is that you're dealing with a limited number of quality women given your location.

Bolded for accuracy! That is the stumbling block here. Although the pickin's ARE slim here it's not hopeless. It's up to me to break out of that mindset and remind myself that there ARE good women out there and I will have to get outside of my current comfort zone and become more social.

Regarding the friend-zone:

As a young musician there was no possibility of the friend zone. I banged every "friend" within a week. Being a little older and hopefully a bit wiser, I've found that lady friends can be a nice part of my world. I've had a couple lady friends for 10-15 years now and it's all good. As good as a solid male friend? No- it's different. But good.

I'm well-aware of the difference between a friend and being an emotional tampon.

The friendzone does seem to verboten here to an extent and for a budding DJ I agree. At this point in my life I've come to value true friendship. When I was 25 I thought I had 200 friends. At 47 I have 5 friends and hundreds of aqauintances. 20-30 years of history makes it very easy to know the difference. For youger fellas I'd suuggest they avoid the friendzone as it's too easy to get sucked in to being the tampon and wasting a LOT of time.

I may be the product of an era gone by but I tend to think that a well-forged friendship with a gal *could* lead to a healthy LTR. I'm open to it.

I've only had one LTR in my life, and I just turned 29. We're engaged. We were close friends for around 5-6 months before going exclusive. I'm very happy in the relationship and I like to think she is as well.

You might want to make sure BEFORE the nuptuals! While I most certainly wish you the very best the last line concerns me. I mgiht be over-reacting and I'm reading more into this. Just lookin' out for you, brother!

I can't really suggest too much more as you've got your shiiite together, and have considerable more life experience than me. I can point you to my recent 1000th post in which I highlight some stuff I've learned since joining this site. You probably know most of it as its quite common sense, but hopefully you can gain something from it:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180109

Hope this helps! Good luck.

Thanks for your time and energy. Thank you also for the link which i will read this evening. Time to go to work as it's almost 11:00am. Self-employment ain't ALL bad ;-)

Be well Sir!

KS

 

[Fuglydude]

Regarding the friend-zone:

As a young musician there was no possibility of the friend zone. I banged every "friend" within a week. Being a little older and hopefully a bit wiser, I've found that lady friends can be a nice part of my world. I've had a couple lady friends for 10-15 years now and it's all good. As good as a solid male friend? No- it's different. But good.


KS

Haha, that's awesome about sleeping w/ all your potential female "friends"!

I've never understood women's fascination with musicians... not that I'm dissing you guys. Hell, I love music, and wish I had more musical ability. I actually think I learned quite a bit about music when I was stripping and got a great feel for lotsa stuff in the hip hop and electronic genres.

I guess it has to do with the status things of being on stage and having everyone cheer for you. Lotsa guys that I know who are in bands are nothing special to look at... I mean average at best and usually pretty skinny and weak looking physically. They still pull some impressive chics though! One of my friends, HB7-8, total sweetheart, recently started going out with some dude in a band. I think this guy isn't even close to her league looks wise, and my fiance agrees. Yet she seems very attracted to him.

I'm kind of a meathead I guess... former high performance athlete, turned male entertainer, turned competitive bodybuilder. I've always used my build and my looks to get women. In my opinion my game has never been very strong... but then again I didn't need strong game. Most of the girls that I got were into jacked up dudes w/ a high sex drive... after being with me my fiance says she could never go back to dating guys who aren't at a certain level physically. I guess this is why I find it intriguing that musicians, despite often being nothing special physically, were pulling mad ass. I know guys in huge bands like GnR and Motley Crue have screwed some of the hottest girls in the world simply cuz they're loaded, and are total badasses. I guess the same kind of applies to smaller scale local bands.

Oh and regarding qualities you look for in an LTR. I have a fairly simple criteria that I'll share with you. I call it my APIX scale:

A = appearance (how hot she is to YOU)
P = personality
I = intelligence/education
X = x-factor/intangibles (this includes chemistry, and sexual compatibility)

Ya, I know I'm a nerd. I like this scale because its simple, but helps to qualify some of the most important qualities in any potential LTR.