Standing barbell/push press troubles

[6-heads lewis]

This lift just isn't working for me, Im very motivated to increase it, moreso than bench. The problem is that I feel it mostly in my back, and not in my shoulders. Its an odd muscle in my back I cant pinpoint, it strains heavily during lockout. Getting the bar above my head is easy, but from just over my head to lockout is a real struggle, if the lockout is slow I feel a sharp grinding pain seemingly in my lats.

Ive read through the section about press in Starting Strength, it has the press starting from a rack position, the ending position of a power clean. This works well during warm-ups, and seems to hit my shoulders more, but the position is far too difficult to hold with heavy weights. Just getting the full stretch is difficult enough, but pressing a 130lb bar with the bent wrist seems awfully dangerous and unstable. Even with a more relaxed position, I still get slight wrist pains. The amount of weights I can do drops significantly when I press from the rack position, and it’s impossible to maintain.

With heavy weights I do it with my elbows pointed somewhat up, bar resting on my upper chest, near the neck area, but not on the shoulders. I press it straight overhead (aiming for the nose, never swinging out-wards), and get my body under the bar. Im leaning back only to clear my face.

So what gives? I’ve read through many descriptions of how to do the press (including stronglifts’ blog), I don’t think my form is a problem. I asked some slack-jawed gawker at my gym who had awful form where he felt it, and he said it was entirely in the front shoulder and tricep.

Im not sure what to do, I figure as long as the weights keep increasing, something is improving… but my shoulders are very narrow, this is very frustrating. Ive tried DBs with good results, but the difference between left and right is just too big.

Any ideas?


edit - why the fudge is "out-war" without the dash, censored? I tried to post "out-wards" witohut the dash, its comes out as "******ds".

 

[stronglifts]

This lift just isn't working for me, Im very motivated to increase it, moreso than bench. The problem is that I feel it mostly in my back, and not in my shoulders. Its an odd muscle in my back I cant pinpoint, it strains heavily during lockout. Getting the bar above my head is easy, but from just over my head to lockout is a real struggle, if the lockout is slow I feel a sharp grinding pain seemingly in my lats.

Ive read through the section about press in Starting Strength, it has the press starting from a rack position, the ending position of a power clean. This works well during warm-ups, and seems to hit my shoulders more, but the position is far too difficult to hold with heavy weights. Just getting the full stretch is difficult enough, but pressing a 130lb bar with the bent wrist seems awfully dangerous and unstable. Even with a more relaxed position, I still get slight wrist pains. The amount of weights I can do drops significantly when I press from the rack position, and it’s impossible to maintain.

With heavy weights I do it with my elbows pointed somewhat up, bar resting on my upper chest, near the neck area, but not on the shoulders. I press it straight overhead (aiming for the nose, never swinging out-wards), and get my body under the bar. Im leaning back only to clear my face.

Im not sure what to do, I figure as long as the weights keep increasing, something is improving… but my shoulders are very narrow, this is very frustrating. Ive tried DBs with good results, but the difference between left and right is just too big.

First, thanks for visiting my blog ;-)

I'm an Overhead Press freak. Glad to hear there are other people who are motivated to work on their overhead strength.

Back to your question.


Your Back
From your description, there are two things that might go wrong:
-You're arching your lower back (squeeze your glutes!)
-You're pushing yourself away too much on the way up (stay more upright)


Starting position:
-You'll always be able to let more weight rest on your shoulders than what you can actually lift, wheter it's a clean/front squat/press.
-The bar must rest on your shoulders. If you have troubles letting, perfrom triceps stretch & wrist stretch.
-Some proof that it can be done. Me doing a 440lbs Front Squat Lockouts using a clean grip. I only weigh 160lbs for your info.


The Wrists
-You may not bend the wrists. Keep them perpendicular (in line with the forearm). when the weight increases, they will be a slight bend, that's ok. Focus on keeping the wrist perpendicular
-Another thing, hold the bar close to your palms, not in the fingers (check starting strength). The higher the bar is in your fingers, the more your wrists will bend.
-Another proof it can be done. Me doing Overhead Supports with 300lbs 160lbs bodyweight.


Narrow Shoulders
-Eat more
-Keep pressing: the day you're pressing your own bodyweight overhead, your shoulders will be thick, trust me.



Would be easier if you can shoot a video of yourself pressing (sideview is best). This way we can give you better advice.



Btw, if there is a huge strength difference between left & right, you have posture disalignement. Consult an osteopath.

 

[6-heads lewis]

First, thanks for visiting my blog ;-)

I'm an Overhead Press freak. Glad to hear there are other people who are motivated to work on their overhead strength.

Back to your question.


Your Back
From your description, there are two things that might go wrong:
-You're arching your lower back (squeeze your glutes!)
-You're pushing yourself away too much on the way up (stay more upright)


Starting position:
-You'll always be able to let more weight rest on your shoulders than what you can actually lift, wheter it's a clean/front squat/press.
-The bar must rest on your shoulders. If you have troubles letting, perfrom triceps stretch & wrist stretch.
-Some proof that it can be done. Me doing a 440lbs Front Squat Lockouts using a clean grip. I only weigh 160lbs for your info.


The Wrists
-You may not bend the wrists. Keep them perpendicular (in line with the forearm). when the weight increases, they will be a slight bend, that's ok. Focus on keeping the wrist perpendicular
-Another thing, hold the bar close to your palms, not in the fingers (check starting strength). The higher the bar is in your fingers, the more your wrists will bend.
-Another proof it can be done. Me doing Overhead Supports with 300lbs 160lbs bodyweight.


Narrow Shoulders
-Eat more
-Keep pressing: the day you're pressing your own bodyweight overhead, your shoulders will be thick, trust me.



Would be easier if you can shoot a video of yourself pressing (sideview is best). This way we can give you better advice.



Btw, if there is a huge strength difference between left & right, you have posture disalignement. Consult an osteopath.

Damn, good videos man! Those are advanced ideas.

I too love overhead press, its not as glamorous as bench, but just has pure ‘badass’ appeal… I can only imagine how imposing someone’s shoulders would look with a 200+lb overhead press. If I got deads to 550 and overheads to 200 I honestly wouldn’t care about anything else.

After looking over the ‘press’ section of SS again, I can see the starting position isn’t as strict as the lockout position of the clean. The elbows are pointed about midway, which is how I have them, though I have bar a bit lower, resting around the neck area, not as much on the shoulder. If you have the book, look page 146 figure 13, Im almost like figure B.

I still can’t figure out why my body responds to the lift the way it does… Ive never heard anyone else complain about having mid-back pains while pressing, no matter how sloppy form is. I also never have shoulder soreness after this lift, infact I often have lat soreness.

And you’re right about my posture, its very noticeable when I wear t-shirts, the sleeves end up at different heights on my upper arm. The best shoulder exercise I did was DB push press, but its ridiculous when you can press 90lbs with your right easier than 75lbs with your left. It’s not just strength, but coordination, timing, kinesthetic awareness.


Thanks for the input; I suspect it has to do with an odd physiological response as well as form.

 

[stronglifts]

I too love overhead press, its not as glamorous as bench, but just has pure ‘badass’ appeal… I can only imagine how imposing someone’s shoulders would look with a 200+lb overhead press. If I got deads to 550 and overheads to 200 I honestly wouldn’t care about anything else.

After looking over the ‘press’ section of SS again, I can see the starting position isn’t as strict as the lockout position of the clean. The elbows are pointed about midway, which is how I have them, though I have bar a bit lower, resting around the neck area, not as much on the shoulder. If you have the book, look page 146 figure 13, Im almost like figure B.

I still can’t figure out why my body responds to the lift the way it does… Ive never heard anyone else complain about having mid-back pains while pressing, no matter how sloppy form is. I also never have shoulder soreness after this lift, infact I often have lat soreness.

And you’re right about my posture, its very noticeable when I wear t-shirts, the sleeves end up at different heights on my upper arm. The best shoulder exercise I did was DB push press, but its ridiculous when you can press 90lbs with your right easier than 75lbs with your left. It’s not just strength, but coordination, timing, kinesthetic awareness.


Thanks for the input; I suspect it has to do with an odd physiological response as well as form.

I agree, pressing the weight overhead is much more fun. More challenging, more demanding, more muscles used. And it just feel great holding weight overhead.

They are very bad ass and in my opinion much more glamorous than the Bench Press. Check this video of Serge Redding (from Belgium too btw): Serge Redding Clean & Press. Note that it's an olympic press not a jerk.


Elbows.
-Elbows are lower on the overhead press than on the powerclean/front squat
-Front Squat/Power clean: upperarm nearly parallel with the floor
-Overhead Press: ask someone to look from the side, your elbows should be in front of the bar, not directly under.
-Check page 149 in SS, left image. Elbows are in front of the bar, armpit about 45° angle.
-Don't put your upperarm parallel with the floor on the overhead press, you'll be less powerfull. Remember the goal is to press upwards.


About the posture.
If you want to be your own doctor & you're self-motivated to give it time (weeks/months), read the Egoscue Method.
Cheap book on how anatomy works & what can go wrong in the hips/upperback/ankles/...


Good luck.

 

[mrRuckus]

The Wrists
-You may not bend the wrists. Keep them perpendicular (in line with the forearm). when the weight increases, they will be a slight bend, that's ok. Focus on keeping the wrist perpendicular

You direct us to a picture in Starting Strength but what you say here isn't at all what it shows in that book.

All the pictures show the the wrists bent with the hand almost parallel to the forearm. Looks to be about 100-110 degrees. Look at that kid on Figure 16 on page 148. That doesn't look like a "slight bend" to me.

 

[stronglifts]

You direct us to a picture in Starting Strength but what you say here isn't at all what it shows in that book.

All the pictures show the the wrists bent with the hand almost parallel to the forearm. Looks to be about 100-110 degrees. Look at that kid on Figure 16 on page 148. That doesn't look like a "slight bend" to me.

You're right about the wrist mrRuckus.

There's a difference between letting the bar roll into your fingers & relaxing the wrists vs. bar close to the wrist/contracting wrist/forearm.

It's impossible to keep the wrist straight on the Overhead Press. However the trainee should imagine himself doing so.