Squats Study

[Jitterbug]

Name one exercise or sport that doesn't have the potential to fvck you up good.

Benching - the most popular lift - has fvcked so many shoulders but I don't see any research done to discourage people from doing it.

 

[Lifeforce]

I can't last recall the time when I saw someone actually perform a proper squat in the gym. I've probably not seen ten people during all my time training who have performed it as it should be performed. It seems people think squatting is easy, it's just sitting down and standing up but it's one of the most complicated lifts you can do in the gym.

I used to think that deadlifts were the villain behind my back pain but now when I switched my stances around I found that the squat was the reason I had lower back pain. I did it with improper form, quads were overtaking the lift and put pressure on the lower back even though I performed the lift good. Now I use a wide stance and can go ATG again with knees out and I havent felt back pain ever since.

I am certain that this study should be taken with a grain of salt. Most injuries are probably due to bad form or lifting too heavy too often but as with everything there are risks involved in lifting which needs to be considered. On the other hand, how many backs haven't been hurt because of sedentary jobs such as sitting in an office all day?

 

[Kerpal]

Oh really? Clearly you and I have a different opinion on how smart the average person is.

The average person does many things every day that are much more complicated than squatting correctly. Lots of people get hurt because they used bad form, and then blame it on "squats". This stuff really isn't that complicated.

 

[Quiksilver]

I'd have to actually see the squat form of people incurring these back injuries.

Squatting too deep can cause ''butt wink'' of the lower spine which is bad form and causes rounding of the lumbar spine. Caused by tight and under-flexible posterior chain especially hamstrings. That is generally at rock bottom, and the hamstring tightness should be addressed and remedied before going very heavy.

With regards to form, I think Mark Rippetoe says it best:

"If it's too heavy to squat deep, its too heavy to have on your back".

No doubt irresponsible training (in any sport) is a recipe for injury, and yes weight training is no exception.

If I loaded up 600lbs on a bar and tried to squat it tomorrow, I'd be lucky to come out without a serious injury. However in 7 years when I'm squatting in that ballpark, the odds of injury (stress-fracture or otherwise) are much less.

The only person I respect enough to take their initial word on something, is Charles Poliquin. If he says that squatting is bad for you, I'll sit up and listen.

 

[Quiksilver]

I can't last recall the time when I saw someone actually perform a proper squat in the gym. I've probably not seen ten people during all my time training who have performed it as it should be performed. It seems people think squatting is easy, it's just sitting down and standing up but it's one of the most complicated lifts you can do in the gym.

I used to think that deadlifts were the villain behind my back pain but now when I switched my stances around I found that the squat was the reason I had lower back pain. I did it with improper form, quads were overtaking the lift and put pressure on the lower back even though I performed the lift good. Now I use a wide stance and can go ATG again with knees out and I havent felt back pain ever since.

I am certain that this study should be taken with a grain of salt. Most injuries are probably due to bad form or lifting too heavy too often but as with everything there are risks involved in lifting which needs to be considered. On the other hand, how many backs haven't been hurt because of sedentary jobs such as sitting in an office all day?

Last Tuesday I went to a professional seminar with my colleagues at work. I sat in a chair for around 8 hours with minimal breaks. My back hurt FAR more after doing that, and didn't hurt one iota after doing a widowmaker set with 250lbs on my back.

 

[Colossus]

Sitting is one of the WORST things for your lower back. Continuous lumbar compression and flexion.

On an ironic note, I fvcked my back up really good on monday doing deadlifts, my favorite lift. With 135. Thats right, 135 pounds, first set of the day. I got the bright idea to switch hands on my alternate grip and it felt really awkward. I set my third rep down and felt that familiar lumbar stab...and the spasms followed. Im not sure what the take-home message is, other than the lower back is a fickle mistress. Dont change things if they are working just fine.

 

[GameTime76]

men and women have been squating since the beginning of time. whether its squating down to pick something up, take a sh!t or gather round... Though if you really are against Squats you can use leg extensions or leg presses as an alternative.

@Colossus

Grip the bar palms facing down. You only need a over-under hand grip in the 300 pound range. Remember, keep your core tight, head up, use your legs, keep barbell close to your body and stick your chest out when finishing. Always use good form when lifting and always warmup/stretch before hitting the weights.

 

[Kerpal]

@Colossus

Grip the bar palms facing down. You only need a over-under hand grip in the 300 pound range. Remember, keep your core tight, head up, use your legs, keep barbell close to your body and stick your chest out when finishing. Always use good form when lifting and always warmup/stretch before hitting the weights.

:crackup:

Dude, read his log. He's pulling over twice that much. I think he knows his way around a gym.

 

[GameTime76]

:crackup:

Dude, read his log. He's pulling over twice that much. I think he knows his way around a gym.

:crazy: Sorry, dont post here often... Sort of skimmed over this thread

 

[d!ckmojo]

I've been saying this for ages, and getting flamed for it. I'll say it again: do NOT do squats and deadlifts, EVER.

I've seen too many patients come into my clinic with a f*cked lumbar, and it never heals, not fully, ever. You're messing with what you need to keep you erect. I'm sure you feel like a tank in the rack heaving 300 pounds around, wow, but you don't impress me.

Get your ego in check and do plyometric leg exercises instead, sissies.

 

[user43770]

I've been saying this for ages, and getting flamed for it. I'll say it again: do NOT do squats and deadlifts, EVER.

I've seen too many patients come into my clinic with a f*cked lumbar, and it never heals, not fully, ever. You're messing with what you need to keep you erect. I'm sure you feel like a tank in the rack heaving 300 pounds around, wow, but you don't impress me.

Get your ego in check and do plyometric leg exercises instead, sissies.

Do you have any factual evidence that deadlifts or squats "fvcked up their lumbar"? Since we're being hypothetical here, I have a few questions for you: how many people mess up their backs simply from twisting the wrong way; how many people throw out their backs because they weren't used to lifting heavy things; don't you think that having a strong lower back might help prevent a lot of these injuries?

 

[Konada]

Of course squats can fvck up your lumbar! If you're doing squats with sh!tty form! I'd reckon at least half of your patients who fvcked up their back doing squats are caused by bad form. I've seen my fair share of numbnuts doing squats that look like they are gonna break their spine in two, just a in matter of 5 months.

And to tyte, after lifting my stronger lower back has never given me pain problems ever since. Its the long term damage that this squat study talks about that I am concerned of.

 

[Kerpal]

Of course squats can fvck up your lumbar! If you're doing squats with sh!tty form! I'd reckon at least half of your patients who fvcked up their back doing squats are caused by bad form. I've seen my fair share of numbnuts doing squats that look like they are gonna break their spine in two, just a in matter of 5 months.

And to tyte, after lifting my stronger lower back has never given me pain problems ever since. Its the long term damage that this squat study talks about that I am concerned of.

Well obviously lifting with bad form will **** up your back long-term.

The fact that this study was done under the "guidance" of doctors and physical therapists doesn't mean ****, because most doctors and physical therapists think a correct squat is done to quarter depth, with the bar on top of the neck, while looking at the ceiling

I'm sick of people squatting and deadlifting like this, and then blaming "squats and deadlifts" when they hurt themselves.

 

[ArcBound]

Well obviously lifting with bad form will **** up your back long-term.

The fact that this study was done under the "guidance" of doctors and physical therapists doesn't mean ****, because most doctors and physical therapists think a correct squat is done to quarter depth, with the bar on top of the neck, while looking at the ceiling

I'm sick of people squatting and deadlifting like this, and then blaming "squats and deadlifts" when they hurt themselves.

Did you even look up the hospital? Its a hospital well known to treat sports and weight lifting injuries complete with orthopedic surgeons and a full floor of the hospital is dedicated to only weights lol. But of course whenever a study comes out that just might say squats cam be detrimental good or bad form, suddenly these experienced doctors and specialists in a hospital known to treat issues like this SUDDENLY can't conduct a proper study and forget what proper squat form is.

 

[Kerpal]

Did you even look up the hospital? Its a hospital well known to treat sports and weight lifting injuries complete with orthopedic surgeons and a full floor of the hospital is dedicated to only weights lol.

That doesn't mean they're experts on what good form is. It just means they know how to fix people after they hurt themselves using bad form.

But of course whenever a study comes out that just might say squats cam be detrimental good or bad form, suddenly these experienced doctors and specialists in a hospital known to treat issues like this SUDDENLY can't conduct a proper study and forget what proper squat form is.

The mainstream is way behind when it comes to strength training. I had an inguinal hernia a couple years ago, and the surgeon who repaired it told me not to do the Valsalva maneuver, and that when I squat and deadlift I should exhale during the lift because it's safer. This is "common medical knowledge", but anyone who actually trains seriously knows that's a guaranteed way to hurt your back.

 

[Konada]

Double post

 

[Konada]

That doesn't mean they're experts on what good form is. It just means they know how to fix people after they hurt themselves using bad form.



The mainstream is way behind when it comes to strength training. I had an inguinal hernia a couple years ago, and the surgeon who repaired it told me not to do the Valsalva maneuver, and that when I squat and deadlift I should exhale during the lift because it's safer. This is "common medical knowledge", but anyone who actually trains seriously knows that's a guaranteed way to hurt your back.

If you don't believe the doctors, at least take Colossus' and Espi's words into account. As far as I know they would know what a proper squat is and been doing it ever since, the presence of back pain which may be attributed to consistent proper squatting gives this study some credit. I still think this study is worth keeping in mind about and should not be dismissed immediately because it came from pencil necks who never did any lifting before.

 

[Kerpal]

I think part of the issue also is that when you get older you're practically guaranteed to get back pain, because the human back is a stupid design and when you get older your body starts falling apart. I know many on this board like to pretend men don't age and stay in their prime forever, but unfortunately that's just not reality, and adding heavy weights to that will probably cause problems unless you have elite genetics. You don't see many older people lifting heavy weights.

Weightlifting and powerlifting have extremely low injury rates compared to "socially acceptable" sports like soccer, football, etc.

 

[Jitterbug]

I've been saying this for ages, and getting flamed for it. I'll say it again: do NOT do squats and deadlifts, EVER.

I've seen too many patients come into my clinic with a f*cked lumbar, and it never heals, not fully, ever. You're messing with what you need to keep you erect. I'm sure you feel like a tank in the rack heaving 300 pounds around, wow, but you don't impress me.

Get your ego in check and do plyometric leg exercises instead, sissies.

My physio (also a national champion powerlifter) says most of his clients with a buggered back did it by bending over to pick up something as light as a pencil.

So do not pick up a pencil off the floor, EVER.