Spinning Plates: Can this sabotage a potential LTR?

[Buddha_Mind]

Question for you all:

Spinning plates -- can this sabotage a potential LTR? What if you are spinning several plates and a girl wants to become exclusive. Do you drop the others and go exclusive? Where is the fine line of cheating?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Plate Theory

Read this whole thread first.

 

[zekko]

Spinning plates -- can this sabotage a potential LTR?

It can, yes. When you're dealing with individuals, anything can happen. If the girl is very exclusive-minded, she may not be willing to continue seeing a guy who she perceives as a "player". Just like I will likely not be interested in some girl who's seeing 12 other guys. But the standard for men is different than women, and it may be just as likely (or possibly even more likely) that she will be turned on by the fact that you see other women.

In any case, it's not unreasonable to shop around until you find the right person to commit to (if that's what you want). Whether or not you commit to a particular girl is entirely up to you and if you think she deserves it. If she's not the right girl, there's no use in committing to her.

I've always been curious about the what the conventional wisdom is regarding spinning plates WHILE you are in a LTR. I don't really think it's appropriate, to be honest. It is important to maintain a PERCEPTION that you have options, and there should be other women in your life that you talk to at least, but it's tricky territory, and I would love to see what other people here who are in LTRs think about it. Unfortunatey, I don't think there are that many guys here in LTRs.

 

[jophil28]

It can, yes. When you're dealing with individuals, anything can happen. If the girl is very exclusive-minded, she may not be willing to continue seeing a guy who she perceives as a "player". Just like I will likely not be interested in some girl who's seeing 12 other guys. But the standard for men is different than women, and it may be just as likely (or possibly even more likely) that she will be turned on by the fact that you see other women.

Agree with Zekko.

There is a belief here that women are more attracted to men who are attractive to other women. That is true . THe discomfort that your woman feels when she is confronted with a situation in which another woman flirts with you is invaluable in amping up your G/fs IL, BUT be aware that you getting caught out with some hot blonde in the car park is hardly likely to have a similar effect.

 

[zekko]

be aware that you getting caught out with some hot blonde in the car park is hardly likely to have a similar effect.

Heh heh. Speaking from experience there?

 

[L B]

Your answer depends on what you're looking for, not hers.

If you're going through the dating as many ladies as you can short term phase, then exclusivity will not work for you. Only when you're ready for long term relationships do you go exclusive. Do it on your terms.

 

[Chromeo]

Your answer depends on what you're looking for, not hers.

If you're going through the dating as many ladies as you can short term phase, then exclusivity will not work for you. Only when you're ready for long term relationships do you go exclusive. Do it on your terms.

By going exclusive do you mean only sleeping with one woman or only having one plate... presumably one would be ready for a LTR when he achieves a certain level of confidence and lack of oneitis that is needed to succesfully spin one plate.

Also buddha, if one plate wants to become exclusive, that doesnt matter, its not her call its yours. But I do see what your saying, you are spinning plates and maybe one plate YOU are seeing a potential for a LTR... do you continue to spin plates until she brings up the LTR talk, do you bring it up when you are certain its appropriate or should things just progress naturally to where you are exclusive?

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Thanks for the feedback

...maybe one plate YOU are seeing a potential for a LTR... do you continue to spin plates until she brings up the LTR talk, do you bring it up when you are certain its appropriate or should things just progress naturally to where you are exclusive?

This is more or less what I'm talking about. It also relates to being in a situation where other plates may become evident -- ie, text messages, phone calls from another woman, while with the "main dish" -- this could lead to some jealousy could it not?

Is it not possible that a woman of whom you are getting more involved with, may or may not be turned off by an abundance of female friends? Although yes this may incite competitive urges to somehow win you or keep you, might this also bring about complex dimensions of trust issues? Is this naive thinking?

One thing I consider when I think of some whom I know who appear to have solid relationships -- they truly appear to care for another's well-being and growth in life -- seem to lack an abundance of friends from the opposite gender. Perhaps in some ways this becomes natural, as they desire to spend more time with their other, and the sexual tension that can exist between intergender relations may be undesirable or threaten what they are building and what they value (ie, a relationship together).

But at the same token, this mentality could also lead to the erosion of relationship -- as isolation may develop, or even worse -- anger/jealousy at the sight of you even speaking somewhat flirtingly with a member of the opposite sex.

**from link included in your response: 'Plate Theory'

...While the AFC fishes with a single line and a single hook, the Plate Theorist fishes with a trolling net, selecting the fish worth keeping and tossing back those who aren't.

I understand this concept, and too often men can feel a lack of options, and as a result stay in a situation when it's gone to complete sh!t. Their failed understandings that abundance could be what has prevented them from finding something more gratifying.

**from link included in your response: 'Plate Theory'

My critics will often take a binary stance in their arguments with this idea stting that "they could never be with more than one woman at a time out of respect for her" or "so I should just lie to her and see other girls on the side?" To which I'd argue that these are feminized social conventions that attempt to thwart a man's options in order to establish women as the prime selectors in intersexual relations. If it can be conditioned into a boy/man to 'feel bad' about seeing more than one woman at a time, it only better serves the female-as-chooser dynamic. To be sure, women are naturally the filters for their own intimacies, but it is essentially men who do the sexual selection.

I agree in some ways, disagree in others.

Because truly, a man himself may choose her as the "prime selector", and she may choose him as the "prime selector". What if they mutually choose each other, choose exclusivity with each other, and both truly desire that combination?

To myself as a man I do value a certain level of commitment. There is a type of nourishment that good relationships bring that without them is lacking. I've spent a great deal of time traveling on the road, solo, and I have found very much so that good people are probably one of the most important things there are in life.

This being said -- yes, its stupid to limit ones own options, especially if one desires something greater. But do you not believe there is a point in a person's life, where by having a relationship with one person, there may come a lack of desire to approach another? For example, if I'm enjoying my steak and potatoes, do I necessarily need to reach out for the spaghetti across the room? Perhaps I like them both, perhaps I could eat either of them, but if this one gratifies me, is soothing to my stomach, why not be contented?

Some might say -- well eat steak, potatoes and spaghetti on the same plate I'd say, as long as they don't battle one another in your stomach, than it might be fine for some

In some ways, I feel spinning plates in a serious LTR could be destructive, depending upon the depths to which a man might get involved with his plates, and the understandings of exclusivity that his "main dish" might have. Females do dump guys for cheating. Is this not a violation of trust if exclusivity was the agreement?

I am not refuting the value in options. And I do believe in self-confidence, and that one can get through life with their own strength. But isn't it also true that some people make life that much more rich?

I genuinely appreciate everyones comments and replies.

 

[BeyondCharm]

Some might say -- well eat steak, potatoes and spaghetti on the same plate I'd say, as long as they don't battle one another in your stomach, than it might be fine for some

The issues for many is that after eating steak and potatoes every day for breakfast, lunch, dinner, snack time and midnight snack for months or years on end, a person wants to try something new...

Now some people are satisfied by using a variety of "sauces (sex toys)" and spices to keep some variety in their meals.

It seems like the idea of Plate Theory is that you don't resign to going out and getting your steak from the butcher, knowing you could switch to chicken or a pork chop any night of the week if you really wanted to. This confidence in oneself keeps an alpha-state readily available so we don't sink into beta-ism and needyness.

 

[zekko]

In some ways, I feel spinning plates in a serious LTR could be destructive

Okay, in your original post you asked about spinning plates and a "potential" LTR. Now you've changed it to spinning plates IN a "serious" LTR.

I honestly don't see how you can spin plates in a LTR and not be asking for trouble. This could be plate spinning by the male, or female, or both. And I know couples who see "friends" of the opposite gender, but I don't think it's a good idea. Eventually the right "friend" is going to come along and someone will cheat. Now if you don't care about your LTR, then spin away. But if you don't care, why are you in a LTR in the first place.

Then there's the question "what is a plate?". To me a plate is a lover or potential lover. I think the guideline is that if you are in a LTR, you should not be going out on 1:1 meetups with someone of the opposite gender. I know there are people who do it, but again I think it's asking for trouble. There may be some exceptions depending on the situation. But none of this means you can't talk to other girls. But anything beyond some light flirting is probably out of line.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

A lot of guys want to reassure themselves of their choice to become monogamous with a woman by claiming that they've seen it all, have had so much opportunity, and are tired of the game that they know a good thing when they see it. They don't, you don't and I don't. I can only laugh when I read a post from a 26 y.o. guy who's only been single for 6 months tell me how tired he is of the "club scene" after having been exclusive with a GF since he was 20. It's necessary to ask ourselves questions and be honest with ourselves and this is often painful.

I'm always less concerned about "rock stars" tapping ass in a revolving door and more concerned about starving chumps settling for a lifetime on the first cracker they're thrown. Guys don't search out the 'community' because they're getting too much pussie. If anything compromises self-respect (assuming an AFC even has a concept of that) it's a Scarcity/Sniper mentality.

something greater. But do you not believe there is a point in a person's life, where by having a relationship with one person, there may come a lack of desire to approach another?

Desire, no. A more developed sense of risk to reward comparison, and a better capacity to control oneself in spite of it, yes. Both men and women are conflicted by a need for security (women's primary impulse) and variety (men's primary impulse). We are biologically, psychologically and emotionally compelled to both. Eating steak or spaghetti makes little difference to a starving man. Feed him well and put him in front of a buffet and he'll be more discerning in his choices, but he'll still get hungry. Barring surgery or medication, you simply never going to desexualize a man completely. Our first, split-second, subconscious impression of women is their breeding potential, and no amount of monogamy will prevent that at any age. And in truth, women wouldn't want it any other way.

In some ways, I feel spinning plates in a serious LTR could be destructive, depending upon the depths to which a man might get involved with his plates, and the understandings of exclusivity that his "main dish" might have. Females do dump guys for cheating. Is this not a violation of trust if exclusivity was the agreement?

A couple of things first; if you have a "main dish" you're not spinning plates. If at any time you have a mutual understanding or implied understanding of exclusivity, you're not spinning plates. The reason this confuses you is because the very idea of non-exclusive 'dating' is foreign to the monogamous mindset most men are condition for for the better part of their lives. The purpose of Plate Theory isn't to insulate a guy from becoming monogamous at some point in the future; the point is to provide him with enough experience and enough opportunity to know he's making an informed decision when he does. Furthermore, the confidence he enjoys - the confidence that makes him desired by his potential LTR - comes from the realized and potential options he KNOWS he has.

The monogamy mindset worries that if he's suspected of infidelity he'll lose his ONE best 'dream girl'. This mindset is rooted in the fear that she needs him less than he needs her (The Cardinal Rule of Relationships) and is a tacit surrender of frame to her from the beginning of an LTR.

The plate theory mindset already knows from experience and opportunity that suspicions of infidelity foment competition anxiety in women which leads to more secure attachment and desire on her part. She acknowledges his control of frame from the beginning of the LTR.

What you're getting at here isn't so much an indictment of plate theory as it is your confusing it with maintaining an atmosphere of competition anxiety within an LTR. Most men are terrified of stoking, much less deliberately using situations that would create competition anxiety in their LTR women. It's counterintuitive to them to rock the boat, but it's just this suspicion that women crave. Women don't want a Man to cheat, but they love a Man who could cheat. Women in LTRs derive their sense of worth by association with the Men they've chosen to become exclusively intimate with. Thus it's an insult to her if her man is so optionless and necessitous that he would never think of cheating on her, much less to have the opportunity to ever do so.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

For now, I want to genuinely thank you all for your comments. I'll address each one here soon, for now I have to digest some of what I've read.

One difficult thing sometimes about the pursuit of knowledge or a higher path, is letting go of what you'd believed to be real for so long.

More soon. Although additional posts are surely welcome.

peace.

 

[Colossus]

It can, yes. When you're dealing with individuals, anything can happen. If the girl is very exclusive-minded, she may not be willing to continue seeing a guy who she perceives as a "player". Just like I will likely not be interested in some girl who's seeing 12 other guys. But the standard for men is different than women, and it may be just as likely (or possibly even more likely) that she will be turned on by the fact that you see other women.

In any case, it's not unreasonable to shop around until you find the right person to commit to (if that's what you want). Whether or not you commit to a particular girl is entirely up to you and if you think she deserves it. If she's not the right girl, there's no use in committing to her.

I've always been curious about the what the conventional wisdom is regarding spinning plates WHILE you are in a LTR. I don't really think it's appropriate, to be honest. It is important to maintain a PERCEPTION that you have options, and there should be other women in your life that you talk to at least, but it's tricky territory, and I would love to see what other people here who are in LTRs think about it. Unfortunatey, I don't think there are that many guys here in LTRs.

Good post and I agree.

I'm in an LTR. Prior to this I wasnt really spinning plates per se, but the girls I dated or banged would overlap.

Spinning plates and LTRs are not compatible, and in fact being in an LTR implies you dont WANT to see anyone else. You are happy to be exclusive with your chosen girl. If you go about things wisely you will have some plates going at the start of a potential LTR, then if she checks out and you dig her the plates will be dropped one by one. I think if a guy is in an LTR and wants to see other girls concurrently, he should drop the LTR. Seeing multiple girls is all fine and good until you start being deliberately dishonest about it.

I also think that there is a different ethical 'standard' for men and women---in other words, a woman who entertains multiple male suitors at any given time doesn't bring anything more to the table for a man, and in fact would repel a man of value.

Maintaining that perception of having available options is good for both parties, but like you said Zekko it's a delicate game. Men never stop wanting other women, at least sexually. They may go through periods of satisfaction, but I'm never going to look at a hot, robust young female body and not feel some impulse to mount her naked. What comes into play is the risk/reward factor. I get girls numbers out at bars sometimes, and if I pushed the envelope I could definitely fvck one. But, I'm not going to cheat on my gf of a year with some random club skank. Not out of some moral dogma, but because of several reasons: 1) I'm sexually satisfied, 2) It is my determination that my gf is of higher quality than the garden-variety club skank, and 3) if I were to satisfy some momentary urge to hit new pvssy I would not only be a d0uchebag (in my mind), but I would negate the last year I have invested in someone with which there is a good level of mutual respect. Yeah, there are millions of women; but respect, trust, AND attraction in a single package doesn't exactly grow on trees. To throw that away JUST for vaginal variety would be stupid.

When people aren't happy in their relationship they start entertaining other options. With women it's usually a lack of attention or lack of her emotional needs being met, and with men it's usually a lack of sexual satisfaction or frustration from her emotional henpecking. I was just there a couple weeks ago---seriously considering shutting it down because all we were doing was bickering. It fvcking wears you down. Now that it has blown over, we're fine again....but who's to say another issue wont ignite it in the future. I dont know. I dont have all the answers. I dont necessarily think periods of bickering are a reason to end the relationship---because sometimes one or both of you just needs to grow up in some way. I guess you have to look at the bigger picture.

 

[zekko]

A couple of things first; if you have a "main dish" you're not spinning plates. If at any time you have a mutual understanding or implied understanding of exclusivity, you're not spinning plates.

I've wondered numerous times what the community consensus was on plate spinning while in a LTR, I've even asked it on this forum several times. Never got an answer though. But this makes it clear to me. If you are in an exclusive LTR, you are by that very definition not spinning plates. It's a completely different mindset.

a woman who entertains multiple male suitors at any given time doesn't bring anything more to the table for a man, and in fact would repel a man of value

There are a lot of mothers who tell their daughters not to tie themselves down to one man too early though. They want them to experience what's out there before settling on someone because they want them to get the best man they can get. It's the female equivalent of spinning plates I guess.

It is my determination that my gf is of higher quality than the garden-variety club skank

You're right. That may now sound like a great accomplishment in and of itself. But a woman who truly meets your standards for a LTR is surely at least somewhat rare, abundance mentality or not.