Spending the night together (but not having sex)

bigneil

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Sometimes as luck will have it, we will be fortunate enough to spend the night with a girl very early in the relationship. While it's easy to imagine carefree sex happening rather instantly in this situation, the reality is that it takes time to get close to people.

The other night I had a second date with a girl who just turned 21. Our first date was to celebrate her 21st birthday. She (surprisingly) had agreed to go to another city with me to see a concert, which meant we had to crash at a hotel overnight. While the date was executed with perfection by myself, from the ride to the dinner to the concert to the hotel, sadly (ok tragically), as fate would have it, the hotel ended up having small twin beds instead of one king bed.

So, after what amounted to a rather long 12 hour date (from 2pm to 2am), I elected to carry her off to bed (it was a suite) and tuck her in and kiss her on the cheek and not try anything. She seemed to love being carried, but I didn't carry things any further. Especially given her youth and the 23 year age difference, I just didn't feel comfortable coming on strong. I generally find that girls let us know when they want sex. She seemed willing but not ready and I just passed out. Sex should just happen.

Also, I find that with girls I really like I tend to take things slower (Elvis never slept with Priscilla for the longest time). The final episode of Three's Company Season 8 (about to become Three's a Crowd) John Ritter really captures this phenomenon when he freezes in bed with his fiancé.

On the ride home she was asking me if I thought she was too young and she reminded me she had no problem with the age difference, so I may have thrown her for a loop by not trying anything, though that was not my intention.

In this situation, especially in hindsight, it's easy to second guess the delicate balance between "make the ho say no" or "leave her wanting more". They say love never dies of starvation, but of indigestion. Then again, sometimes you kick yourself for the rest of your life about "the one that got away".

Have you ever had similar situations and how did they unfold in the long run?
 
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bigneil said:
Sometimes as fate will have it, we will be fortunate enough to spend the night with a girl very early in the relationship. While it's easy to imagine carefree sex happening rather instantly in this situation, the reality is that it takes time to get close to people.

The other night I had a second date with a girl who just turned 21. Our first date was to celebrate her 21st birthday. She (surprisingly) had agreed to go to another city with me to see a concert, which meant we had to crash at a hotel overnight. While the date was executed with perfection by myself, from the ride to the dinner to the concert to the hotel, sadly (ok tragically), as fate would have it, the hotel ended up having small twin beds instead of one king bed.

So, after what amounted to a rather long 12 hour date (from 2pm to 2am), I elected to carry her off to bed (it was a suite) and tuck her in and kiss her on the cheek and not try anything. Especially given her youth and the 24 year age difference, I just didn't feel comfortable coming on strong. I generally find that girls let us know when they are ready. She seemed willing but not ready and I just passed out. Also, I find that with girls I really like I tend to take things slower (Elvis never slept with Priscilla for the longest time).

In this situation, especially in hindsight, it's easy to second guess the delicate balance between "make the ho say no" or "leave her wanting more". They say love never dies of starvation, but of indigestion. Then again, sometimes you kick yourself for the rest of your life when you don't try.

Have you ever had similar situations and how did they unfold in the long run?
This is a blasphemy of all DJ principle. Just joking. If you know you are going to see her next time then it's no big deal. One thing you may be concerned about is if you set your conversation and attitude with her to be completely "non sexual", it might make her used to thinking non-sexual with you. And you will end up being the safe guy she can get drunk and fall asleep with and nothing will happen.
 

Dhoulmagus

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not gonna lie, I cringed. You do you though lol.
 

Bokanovsky

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From my experience, not making the move when the opportunity presents itself is, more often than not, a mistake. When you say that she was "willing but not ready", your assessment of her lack of readiness comes from ingrained, white knight-ish beliefs about female nature (i.e. that women don't want to sleep with a guy too quickly). Bottom line is, if she's willing, she's ready. Don't over-think it.
 

Building_and_Loan

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Yeah it's not the worst thing in the world to stay overnight but not have sex, as I've done it my fair share of times back in the day.

However, you gotta at least make "the move" though. If you don't, you come dangerously close to getting friend zoned. She's gotta know you're a sexual being.
 

El Payaso

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You're just rationalizing why you couldn't muster the guts to come on to her.
 

zinc4

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Dude....if you could get up a boner for her but didn't go for it then you are white knighting big time...she probably wanted to be pounded deep down or at least made out with and fondled.

A kiss on the cheek? That's pretty gay man no offense....you should have at least tried to turn her head for some aggressive make out action. I could understand if u Judy didn't want the ***** or weren't in the mood, but that's clearly not the case.

Did you at any point in the date at least kino and hold her hand or lead her by her hand?

If you did...then the make out would be expected by her. If u two are crashing at a hotel together then you don't need much time....and if you know how to kino properly you will see the time thing is a myth. It all comes down to his quickly you can get her a little wet feeling.
 

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I'm not even gonna start criticizing this, I'll wait to hear about this when it goes to sh!ts. You're probably not gonna listen to reason anyways, people in your situation never does. So it's a waste of time.
 

Rival

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If she was willing to stay over night in a hotel with you, she most likely would have had sex. Plus there are other things fun to do besides sex too. Her conversation in the car with you is also another flag she may have wanted aex.
 

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SgtSplacker

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This is why it's critical to stay sexual with women. Iv'e seen a girl take a friggin vacation with some dude she didn't plan on screwing. Some girls just don't get it or they pretend sex is not part of being so close with a man that's taking care of her needs.

SCREW THESE GIRLS MAN LEAVE THEM AT HOME STOP ENTERTAINING THEM
 

zekko

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I think the truth is, Bigneil, you were too drunk to perform or had too much to drink and just wasn't up to it, so you passed out like you say. That's okay, that happens. But I don't buy the "she wasn't ready" bit. She's 21, she's probably thinking that any other guy her age would have tried to bang her, so she wonders why you didn't.
 

KingBeef

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I wouldn't worry about it. She asked you the next day if YOU had an issue with the age difference. SHE'S STILL INTO YOU... I know this wasn't planned but you may have inadvertently sparked her curiosity...that's always a good thing. As far as you not making a move, if you're drunk and want to pass out sometimes we just want to go to sleep...lol It appears there will be a next time.....

When next time does happen? YOU CLOSE, NO EXCEPTIONS....
 

JohnChops

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I agree, that Neil should have went for it, but Neil is a romantic type (given his past posting history). He always has and always will be. I think it is fine to take your time, I didn't bang my ex-GF (dated for a year) until the 4-5th date to build some tension for the both of us, even though she presented the opportunity.

I do the same thing brotha, with girls I actually enjoy hanging out with, I usually wait.

Girls I just wana bang, ill put up enough of the convo to set up the opportunity for the lay, and thats it.

Keep doing you man.
 

bigneil

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Guys, after a lot of research and deliberation, I stand corrected on this. I appreciate the harsh criticism, and those of you who see the silver lining. I will always be a student. This is an important subject though and there aren't many articles on this.

The key to this: He who hesitates is lost.

I think what happens is, as we get better with women, we just end up with a much younger, much prettier one and then we make the same mistakes we used to. She's the youngest girl I ever dated so the confidence I have is at the cusp of the limit.

Although I got the same eager goodbye kiss as I did the previous date, I have not seen her again and her interest level seems lower now. This falls under "Beware the after effects", where you must start the seduction all over.

NOTE: at the time my interest level in her wasn't that high. But all this thinking about what went wrong has me feeling Oneitis again for the first time in over 3 years. Just when I thought no girl could hurt me again. But it's GOOD to feel a broken heart once in a while. We lose weight, it inspires us like nothing else, and if we don't we aren't trying for our potential. This feeling is what inspired me throughout my life to go learn more about women, and to improve myself.

JohnChops will probably note that when he waited, he found that HIS feelings magnified too. Whether this is good for the man to have lots of feelings before sex is questionable, but there is no question that a woman grows on us over time. Sex is awkward the first time (and IMO overrated in general). So unless there are mutual feelings, you often never want to see the person again. My first gf (from 1993, who has been writing to me this week on FB) used to say "We can have sex right away, if you want to wreck it". And she would say "Guys are stupid. If they would just not try anything, we would want them to."

Also note, when I moved in with the Russian girls it took 3 weeks to have sex with one, and 6 weeks before the other made a pass (which I declined out of respect for the first one). This paid off as the first one still sends me love letters from NYC.

Carpe diem.
 

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This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

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bigneil said:
Guys, I stand corrected on this.

He who hesitates is lost.

I think what happens is, as we get better with women, we just end up with a much younger, much prettier one and then we make the same mistakes we used to. She's the youngest girl I ever dated so the confidence I have is at the cusp of the limit.

Although I got the same eager goodbye kiss as I did the previous date, I have not seen her again and her interest level seems lower now. Carpe diem.
So you have to tap it to put that the last thing on her mind.
 

zekko

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bigneil said:
Guys, after a lot of research and deliberation, I stand corrected on this. I appreciate the harsh criticism, and those of you who see the silver lining. I will always be a student. This is an important subject though and there aren't many articles on this.

The key to this: He who hesitates is lost.
A good lesson, but let me say this:

If you didn't bang her because you thought she was young and therefore "special", yes you made a mistake. Probably the kiss on the cheek wasn't the best idea, either. However:

If you didn't bang her because you didn't really want to, or because you were too drunk or whatever, fvck that b!tch (metaphorically speaking). Okay, her interest level is maybe low. Does that mean you are obligated to sloppily and drunkenly have sex with her when you're not really into it? I say forget it, bang her because YOU want to, not because she is expecting it. Just bear in mind life is not for the faint of heart, and fortune favors the bold.
 

bigneil

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Thanks zekko. It was indeed mostly that it was time to end what had been a perfect 12 hour date. Note that I've made out with her many times so it's not a friend zone situation.

I realized something: While I'm no longer afraid to be rejected by beautiful women, I do fear being rejected by really young women. I think this is something we all face as we age. Hence, with her being the youngest ever (by 15 months), I hesitated, the same way people might when they are with the most beautiful girl ever.

Anyhow, now that I realized I made a mistake, I was able to correct this situation. The problem was that I failed in my original purpose: to make her feel beautiful. By my not trying anything in the hotel, she did not feel beautiful anymore, and things didn't feel the same. So I just sent her a photo from that night and reminded her how incredible she looked, and she replied immediately and things feel back to normal. According to Robert Greene, when feelings seem to fade, just start the seduction all over again.
 

captain55

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yup.

Last serious relationship, she was 20 years old....third date...she spent the night at my house and we slept in the same bed but we didn't have sex. I did however suck on her tits and make out with her all night. I banged her on the fourth date about a week later.


This weekend somewhat similar situation, spent the night at a chick's house in the same bed as her but did not bang her. It was the third date, but two months have gone by between the second and third date so it was kind of like the first date all over again. I will keep you updated on how it goes.

The difference is both of these women made it clear that night we weren't having sex. Unless a girl makes it clear your not having sex (which sounds like she never did) you should try and make a move.
 
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