Some how I messed up two dates

[Craig Dates]

Men's attitude of "Please approve of me" is the scourge of our time.

Most men today project a "please accept me" vibe throughout the beginning stages. Women hate that but they soldier on, hoping the guy will get out of that mode, which he usually never does.

Men, we need to stop trying to please and impress women and instead start projecting a vibe that we are evaluating them for suitability in our lives. When we have that attitude, we convey this subconsciously to women (through words, body language and actions). This has the side-effect of raising your attractiveness a hundred-fold.

I don't believe I was giving off the please accept me vibe. If I am mistaken, please let me know. I'm still learning I guess.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

The cold behavior was apparent on your second date as well, based on what you typed above. She was cold in the car and also had her shields up and was distant at the destination. Also, her going from flirty over text to cold right when you pick her up is a red flag.

I even said you're an interesting girl, but hard to read

I should reframe. I said she was an intriguing woman, she smiled.

So which is it? I see a few replies of yours where it seems you are trying to defend yourself. Some of the things ppl mention (like Atomsmasher and Guru) are expanding on what the manifestations of certain behaviors you exhibit might also look like, even if you yourself have not manifested exactly like that. We do that because we don't have a video camera showing us everything you are doing and we know there could be more you haven't told us. The purpose of our doing that is to show you how ELSE the behavior might look so you can avoid doing it. No need to try to defend yourself. We are not here to judge and laugh at you (well some ppl here might do that but ignore them). We are here to help. My criticisms are only meant to help you hone your game, not fault you as a person. We all had to learn game by understanding what we were doing wrong.

I did this a week later at the meetup when she asked if I was open to do something else.

What does the time and venue have to do with your saying, "I wasn't sure if you had a good time" communicating low value?

Seriously though, I've heard 3, maybe 4 red flags with this girl now. I would stay in the group, be polite to her, but avoid giving her much non-sexual attention and certainly don't date her.

 

[Craig Dates]

The cold behavior was apparent on your second date as well, based on what you typed above. She was cold in the car and also had her shields up and was distant at the destination. Also, her going from flirty over text to cold right when you pick her up is a red flag.





So which is it? I see a few replies of yours where it seems you are trying to defend yourself. Some of the things ppl mention (like Atomsmasher and Guru) are expanding on what the manifestations of certain behaviors you exhibit might also look like, even if you yourself have not manifested exactly like that. We do that because we don't have a video camera showing us everything you are doing and we know there could be more you haven't told us. The purpose of our doing that is to show you how ELSE the behavior might look so you can avoid doing it. No need to try to defend yourself. We are not here to judge and laugh at you (well some ppl here might do that but ignore them). We are here to help. My criticisms are only meant to help you hone your game, not fault you as a person. We all had to learn game by understanding what we were doing wrong.


What does the time and venue have to do with your saying, "I wasn't sure if you had a good time" communicating low value?

Seriously though, I've heard 3, maybe 4 red flags with this girl now. I would stay in the group, be polite to her, but avoid giving her much non-sexual attention and certainly don't date her.

The later. I am replaying in my mind. I didn't say you were difficult to read. I only said that good time question when she wanted to go out again. Usually, if I do not hear from a woman after the first date via text, I think it's a dud and move on. One of my friends I've texted about this and said it's her feminist mindset and that's the coldness you are experiencing. I am not sure, as I've never really been on a date with one before, so it was just confusing to deal with. She was also talkative on the first date and in public, monday, there were dips in pause, and I just waited it out and she broke the silence multiple times. I'm not going to date her again, it's a waste of time.

 

[Tilex]

How did she dress on the first date and on the second one?

You to have to give a good visual description filled with details of her appearance on both dates.
Was she wearing makeup?
Was she revealing any skin?
If so, what did she wear to reveal it?
Did she wear perfume/body spray?
How much jewelry did she wear?
Is her hair long or short?
Was she dressed up for the date or did she look frumpy?

Feminists have a certain look to them that can be spotted from miles away.
I'm thinking maybe she said that intentionally to turn you off on the 2nd date so you wouldn't get physical with her.
But this is only speculation.

Curious to know how differently she dressed on the second date compared to the first.

 

[RickTheToad]

A friend of my recommended this forum to me to get some advice. I moved to a new area in New York and met up with some new people as well. We've been going bowling, golfing, hiking, etc. Just trying to make some friends and explore the area. A couple of months ago a new girl joined the group. I'm 34, she's 27. She was initially cold to me at first, but a couple of weeks later, she started to become warm to me.

She asked me if I wanted to check out a new sangria place that just opened up, so I said sure. She text me her # and we made plans for the week after. She was lively, and there was some touching, but we ended early since it was a work day. I waited a couple of weeks and I saw her again with the other people in the group, and we chatted a bit and I said I wasn't sure if you enjoyed yourself or not, she said, oh yes, I had a great time. I asked to her when she's available again to do something a few days after, she told me Monday works. I tried for a Friday prior, but she said she already had plans. She texted me her address, and I picked her up. A day before she texted me and we flirting back and forth a bit, and she said she likes to sing and dance. I said, oh, so you're going to sing to me tomorrow? She then replied I totally will, I have not shame. I picked her up, she wasn't as talkative as before. She didn't feel like singing and did care for any of the music on my phone; even though she was dancing to it weeks prior during bowling. Anyways, we went to a local bar, played some pool and had a couple of drinks. She seemed very standoffish and she had these shields up. I'd try to lean in to her some times, she pulled away. She didn't turn away from my touches, but anytime I tried to lean in to see if she'd meet me for a kiss, it seemed like she leaned back. I even said you're an interesting girl, but hard to read. She didn't know what I was talking about. We were talking about books for a bit and got into a little tiff on a particular book by ayn rand, and I said it was generally a book read by males as many women do not really like those topics. She got a bit taken back and said she's a feminist, she can take care of herself, and there is no reason why a woman cannot read her books. She took it out of context, but I just said, perhaps I selected the wrong words to describe my position. I said many women prefer to read fun enjoyable books, not books that are so practical and based on items within her books. We moved on, I was showing somethings on my phone about some sculptures I made and then she took my phone and starting to take pics of us and her. It was 8 pm now, and she said it was getting late and I suggested another bar to go to, she declined. We had one more drink and then we basically said at the same time ready to head out. She offered to pay, but I paid instead.

I drove her home, she gave me a quick hug and there was no time or way for me to attempt a kiss. She exited the SUV and went into her apt. No texts or anything since Monday. I'm trying to see what went wrong here. She was smiling and laughing, didn't turn away from me touching her, and I even tickled her a bit and she was laughing. I've never been in a position where I've had two dates and not even a kiss. Usually, on the second date there's some physical touching and heavy kissing. I just feel awkward about the whole situation. To add insult to injury, I'll be seeing her again with a group of friends on Sunday. I do not think it's worth asking her out again or even going out with her again if she suggests it.

I am lost. More upset and embarrassed at myself than anything.

I do not see any positives other than she gave you her address, entered your vehicle and offer to pay. Feminists are hardwired to be ball busters at this age. If you are going to rid with this lady, it's going to be highs and lows and she'll be challenging her limits with you all the time. Her not touching you or trying to kiss you is not a good sign. Most ladies know a dude wants to kiss them. If they are so inclined, they will make it easy for the dude to do so. Here, she didn't make anything easy. Now, she can just be a balls to the wall hard ass lady like ones from NY or Boston. She could be gaming you. She could be waiting to see what you do. Who knows. The best action is NONE. Let her come to you. I do not know if I'd entertain anything with this one unless she comes to your place. THAT IS IT. Below you said she wished you a happy birthday. You can turn that around and say, well when are you going to sing happy birthday to me? She'll then reply, either with a haha or when I see you next. You can then say hey, why don't you come over this weekend and show me how to cook? If she says she's busy, or can't or whatever, write the lady off. She's an AW and is just using you for your non-sexual attention. I'll be you 10 bucks she's chatting with her friends about you from Monday and they all think you're going to reach out again. DON'T. When you see her with your friends, be happy go lucky, smiling and having a good time.

He's how you get her hamster wheel to start turning and spinning. If she says let's go to so and so. You then can say, that sounds like a cool idea. You should go with your friends and let me know how it is. Believe it or not, they more you push her away, the better your chances are to pull her in. And, if you don't want to do anything with her, cool, this will work too. However, if you can get her to your place and cook for you, that's a solid interest sign. She of had just a bad day yesterday. Who knows? Maybe her period is coming and she's cramping up. Or, some ladies are just ball busters. It's best to play it on the DL and let her come to you. You chase her, she ain't coming and you look like a played out fool.

 

[marmel75]

She isn't that into you...whats to be embarrassed about?

 

[Craig Dates]

How did she dress on the first date and on the second one?

You to have to give a good visual description filled with details of her appearance on both dates.
Was she wearing makeup?
Was she revealing any skin?
If so, what did she wear to reveal it?
Did she wear perfume/body spray?
How much jewelry did she wear?
Is her hair long or short?
Was she dressed up for the date or did she look frumpy?

Feminists have a certain look to them that can be spotted from miles away.
I'm thinking maybe she said that intentionally to turn you off on the 2nd date so you wouldn't get physical with her.
But this is only speculation.

Curious to know how differently she dressed on the second date compared to the first.

Was she wearing makeup?
Yes

Did she reveal any skin?
No but her top was form fitting and was wearing a cardigan and jumper pants (I do not know what girls call them, but J-Lo wears them) on the second date. Black skirt with stockings and a cardigan on the first.

Did she wear perfume?
First date, no, second date was stronger than my cologne. When she came into the SUV, it smelled like fresh coconuts; and I said so cause it filled up the cabin. It was strong, she said it was her shampoo. That's some strong shampoo since she probably shows around 6am and I picked her up at 7pm.

How much jewelry did she wear?
Only a necklace and earrings in both ears.

She didn't push my hands away when I was holding them for a bit, or move away from caressing her arms or thighs. She's very ticklish, so she was moving side to side when I tickled her stomach area, but she was laughing and smiling. I am a chiropractor, so she misaligned her wrist a couple of weeks ago. She told me about it last week and I showed her what to do to ease the pain. I demonstrated on her wrist with her permission. She said on Monday, whatever you did fixed my wrist right up. She was slouching so I tried to point her posture out and her neck was rock solid stiff, and she skirted away, just by a gentle touch. I've trained 8 years for this, so I can spot it out immediately, so I wanted to relieve her discomfort. Others have been very receptive. Wasn't doing it to get something out of it, I was doing it cause I do not like to see others in pain. With a quick adjustment, you'd be amazed how fast the pain just magically goes away.

 

[Craig Dates]

I do not see any positives other than she gave you her address, entered your vehicle and offer to pay. Feminists are hardwired to be ball busters at this age. If you are going to rid with this lady, it's going to be highs and lows and she'll be challenging her limits with you all the time. Her not touching you or trying to kiss you is not a good sign. Most ladies know a dude wants to kiss them. If they are so inclined, they will make it easy for the dude to do so. Here, she didn't make anything easy. Now, she can just be a balls to the wall hard ass lady like ones from NY or Boston. She could be gaming you. She could be waiting to see what you do. Who knows. The best action is NONE. Let her come to you. I do not know if I'd entertain anything with this one unless she comes to your place. THAT IS IT. Below you said she wished you a happy birthday. You can turn that around and say, well when are you going to sing happy birthday to me? She'll then reply, either with a haha or when I see you next. You can then say hey, why don't you come over this weekend and show me how to cook? If she says she's busy, or can't or whatever, write the lady off. She's an AW and is just using you for your non-sexual attention. I'll be you 10 bucks she's chatting with her friends about you from Monday and they all think you're going to reach out again. DON'T. When you see her with your friends, be happy go lucky, smiling and having a good time.

He's how you get her hamster wheel to start turning and spinning. If she says let's go to so and so. You then can say, that sounds like a cool idea. You should go with your friends and let me know how it is. Believe it or not, they more you push her away, the better your chances are to pull her in. And, if you don't want to do anything with her, cool, this will work too. However, if you can get her to your place and cook for you, that's a solid interest sign. She of had just a bad day yesterday. Who knows? Maybe her period is coming and she's cramping up. Or, some ladies are just ball busters. It's best to play it on the DL and let her come to you. You chase her, she ain't coming and you look like a played out fool.

I am thinking of just walking away. If she comes, she comes.

 

[Craig Dates]

She isn't that into you...whats to be embarrassed about?

So what do I do? Just walk away, forget about her 100% and focus on the other two I am seeing?

 

[sosousage]

you didnt mess up anything its always women fault

 

[marmel75]

So what do I do? Just walk away, forget about her 100% and focus on the other two I am seeing?

Never try to raise a woman's interest level. Its never worth the effort. Go find other women who are more interested.

 

[sazc]

I did flirt with hand caressing, arms, etc. She even said must everything you say have a sexual cogitation with it? I was taken back by that statement. It was weird (for me) on the ride to the bar when she said that. There was never an oppertunity to go for the kiss. I tried and she even came back saying something like personal space so I back off and she wanted to leave, so we left. A complete waste of time. I blame myself, but I keep on going in my head where I fukked up. Since I didn't get it the first date, I was going to next her, but my friends said try one more time, so I did, wish I didn't.

You over did it. She saw you as only after her snatch and created distance to keep you away

 

[Billtx49]

You over did it. She saw you as only after her snatch and created distance to keep you away

That’s a definition of a higher quality woman though vs. the one that sells the snatch because she lacks better personal qualities …

 

[sazc]

That’s a definition of a higher quality woman though vs. the one that sells the snatch because she lacks better personal qualities …

It's always hit or miss. Just be yourself and let the ppl who like, you find you. Try not to sweat it

On the plus side, a girl who was cold initially found enough value in you to warm up to you. That's a great take away.

 

[Craig Dates]

You over did it. She saw you as only after her snatch and created distance to keep you away

But I wasn't. very light touches, not all the time and not that often. Never went near any taboo areas. Hell, we played two truths and a lie. I do not remember what the first two were, but the third was she has 10 piercings and she smirked. This was towards the end of the date, after the book issue, which happened in the first 10 minutes after sitting down. This was 90 minutes later. I asked where? She said, you'll have to guess and wonder. I'm not telling you, again with a smile she said. I know she has four in each ear, as she pulled her hair back and show'd me. If you do not call that a tease, then what is?

 

[sazc]

But I wasn't. very light touches, not all the time and not that often. Never went near any taboo areas. Hell, we played two truths and a lie. I do not remember what the first two were, but the third was she has 10 piercings and she smirked. This was towards the end of the date, after the book issue, which happened in the first 10 minutes after sitting down. This was 90 minutes later. I asked where? She said, you'll have to guess and wonder. I'm not telling you, again with a smile she said. I know she has four in each ear, as she pulled her hair back and show'd me. If you do not call that a tease, then what is?

So which is it? She made the comment that everything you said always had sexual innuendo, and then she put up a wall, or she made the sexual innuendo comment and then talked about all her piercings and played two truths and a lie?

You're spinning multiple tales here

 

[Craig Dates]

So which is it? She made the comment that everything you said always had sexual innuendo, and then she put up a wall, or she made the sexual innuendo comment and then talked about all her piercings and played two truths and a lie?

You're spinning multiple tales here

She said to me why do I have to make things so sexual after I said something about the SUV temp was set at 69. She actually had a joke about 69 last week, so she asked what the temp was, I said it’s at your favorite number, 69.

She told me about the piercings prior to that. However, her walls seemed to be up and down for most of the date.

 

[17 shots]

Why didn't you let her pay for the date, especially if she was acting weird all day. I would of gladly let her spend her own money

You're too nice for your own good

 

[Craig Dates]

Why didn't you let her pay for the date, especially if she was acting weird all day. I would of gladly let her spend her own money

You're too nice for your own good

I always read on this site for the guy to pay for the date. Always. So that is what I did. She also offered on the first date too. I guess that’s the feminist thing that I didn’t notice.

 

[17 shots]

I always read on this site for the guy to pay for the date. Always. So that is what I did. She also offered on the first date too. I guess that’s the feminist thing that I didn’t notice.

It's always good to let a woman invest in you