Solution to social anxiety?

SayWhat

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I've been forcing myself into more conversations, just talking more and trying to keep a conversation going by asking follow up questions.

But I still have such low self-esteem that I feel it shows on the way I ask questions or try to put in a joke or a tease.

When I'm at home, I feel good, I think "next time I'll say this and do that in that way how it should be". Until I'm in that group and the low self-esteem creeps up.

For example today I think I kinda messed up with a co-worker. I teased her, not in arrogant way, but you could tell by her response her mood was completely the other way around.

I'm not interested in her, but I try to tell myself "don't care, even if she is upset, it's better than that she is just neutral about you". I'm kind of using her as my little experiment in trying to become better. In that sense I kind of do care, there is still that beta in me. I envy the guys who have this IDGAF attitude or are just natural.

Sometimes I think I try too hard. It asks so much energy. I know that if I keep trying it will come more naturally, but I hate those moments where I **** up even though it was not meant like that.
 

sph21

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Sometimes I think I try too hard. It asks so much energy. I know that if I keep trying it will come more naturally, but I hate those moments where I **** up even though it was not meant like that.
Have a fun mindset & improvise during the interaction. As you pay attention to her response, you will see what topics interest her.

Telling a joke will come naturally if you are comfortable with yourself. If you are trying too much to impress her by telling a joke while you are not comfortable with yourself, then she will not be comfortable hearing it. It is better to aim for a fun interaction rather than putting too much pressure on telling a joke.

It's only failures that we learn how to be better next time.

I was exactly like you. It's okay to feel that way right now. You'll become better as you gain more experiences.
 

wifehunter

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Social anxiety, for me, ends up being an adrenaline rush. Breaking through the initial onset of the anxiety, is probably the biggest challenge.

Looking through the intial period to the rush of adrenaline is motivating, but I also end up tired at the end.

Herbs like 'Valerian' help, but having the energy and motivation is no substitute.

Balancing is 'key' here.
 

lizardking82

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Key to solving any problem you have is allowing yourself to go through it. People wanna solve problems by escaping them. It's the easiest way. You have social anxiety? Have it. Feel it. Go through it. Sit there with 3 people who make you feel anxious and feel that. After you feel it, there is a good chance you understand there is not so much to worry about and you will deescalate mentally and will start to feel more calm. Don't leave situations where you're feeling uncomfortable mentally, embrace them and master yourself in that area.
 

RangerMIke

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If you have social anxiety it is likely because as a child you were not properly socialized. And since this was not something learned from an early age you will always struggle with this. Trying to turn yourself into a social animal will not work because it will come off as inauthentic. If you are one of these people, my advice would be to strengthen your mind and develop a sense of humor.

Chicks dig smart-funny guys, and this is something you can develop.
 

SayWhat

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Thanks all for your replies. One thing that struck me today is the fact I never thought about giving up. I was a bit down when I came home from work, but I just went to the gym and gave it all I got, it's a good feeling. In the past when something like this would have happened thoughts like "you'll never be able to become who you want, you don't have it in you, just give up,..." came into my head.

Today it didn't.

It's gonna be a long road, and even though I'm still not sure I'll ever make it, it's better to keep on trying. I still have to learn to be myself and not think about the outcome. I hope I can achieve that one day.

I once read the following citation:

You want to know what the definition of hell is? The day before you die, you meet the person you could have become.
 

byers90

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People pay thousands of dollars in some cases for this advice - i'll give it to you for free ----- you have to stop running away from your fear and confront it. You have to put yourself in situations that are out of your comfort zone until you overcome your fears.

Start simple - just say hi to a random stranger. The next day say hi to another, day after say hi to two people etc. Eventually work up to a conversation. In time you'll be more at ease if you do this.
 

wifehunter

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one more point...

Since society is a naturally evil, and a hostile evironment...don't feel too bad for wanting to be invisible.

Most of my favorite fictional characters were outcasts/loners...see: Bat Man, Captain Nemo, James Bond, etc.

So...I'm right there with you.
 

ubercat

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I don't disagree with RM often. He s a solid SS member in good standing. I hope that rule isn't unbreakable. 10 years ago I would have described myself as socially anxious not that I would have known that at the time. Nowadays I d say I m the average Joe based on receiving invites and having women ask friends for my number after social occasions. And since the current workplace is such a political arena I ve had 20 years in IT the last ten on the project side.

Popular hell no, at the same time I have as much social circle as I want and sometimes more than I want. So if you want to do it I can vouch that paint by numbers does work.
 

ChristopherColumbus

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Social anxiety? What can be learnt can be unlearnt. But to unlearn something that has become deeply ingrained in you is an arduous process.

Ask yourself if you have any bad habits that might serve to erode sociability [which you should consider a natural attribute]. If you can identify a few, work at uprooting them from your life. No pain, no gain.
 

Serenity

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I had social anxiety to the point I avoided making phone calls. I'd speak with a couple of close friends and my co-workers, I'd mostly stay quiet if anyone else was present.

I realized just how ridiculous it was to be incapable of casual conversation, I rationally understood there was zero danger in it but my emotions begged to differ. Fortunately my intellectual side won the battle and decided to give a big "fvck you" to the irrationality of my emotions. It did with confidence coming from "bad feelings won't really harm me". I went straight from "I'm afraid to answer the phone" to "let's find a date although I have absolutely no clue what to do". Every part of my body screamed at me telling me not to do it, but I did not obey my irrational fears any longer.

Point is that if you seek to calm your feelings before you proceed, you are in for a very long time waste. You need to wrestle that beast, prove it wrong by doing what you don't feel like doing and show it no harm will come. Even though you feel like you're dying inside and being extremely cringey, push through and show your fear that even if you performed very poorly under the pressure, no harm came of it

I didn't immediately win over my anxiety, but it took less time than you'd expect with intensive self-inflicted exposure to social situations. Once I passed a challenge I didn't celebrate too early, I thought about how I could one-up myself and be even bolder.

The first challenge was starting a conversation on OLD (yes my anxiety was that bad). Sent a few messages, had no clue how to open so went with basic "hey, what's up".

Got a response, next challenge, ask for date. Worked out, next challenge, show up unprepared to ensure conversation is improvised. Had a conversation without stagnating, was very superficial though but better than awkward silence, obviously didn't score date #2.

Next woman, next challenge, get some kino even if it's forced and cringey as fvck. I had loosened up my talking with that one shock therapy date, but I still felt strong resistance to touching. Had a girl over at my place, it took way too long but I eventually got my hands on her and I really felt the anxiety hitting me hard. I did not expect sex, all I cared about was kino and the sex could come in the next challenge. By some miracle she really really wanted to fvck despite my extremely awkward behavior, so I never had to challenge myself to get there, cringey kino was enough.

So nailed that, but there's one more challenge, confrontation upon finding out something is wrong and pulling out. Confrontation is the ultimate fear in social anxiety. That girl I fvcked lied to me and I wasn't having it, even though it's the first pvssy I had for over 5 years. Told her up front about my observations, got more lies, gave her the boot and went ghost. She damn near fried my phone, but I wasn't having it, my days of being a leaf blowing whichever way the wind blows was over.

Total time span from start to end of challenge in which my anxiety got obliterated? 4 weeks, no joke. Literally 3 days after ditching that lying b!tch I went to a party of complete strangers, except the friend who invited me. Even though I knew nobody else there I felt a glow inside me and for once complete tranquility, not even a hint of anxiety. That's how confidence feels like I figured. Shortly after I got there 4 girls arrived, I eyed them for a bit and thought "I'll get the pretty blonde later tonight" before returning to the conversation with the guys. A couple hours later the pretty blonde had landed next to me in the couch, small talk ensued but I kept it short in order to maintain frame. My laid back attitude worked. She started making out with her female friend, I interrupted the pretty blonde asking if she wouldn't prefer a man instead, I barely finished the sentence before she was all over me.

While it was cool, this night had a massive impact on the way I do game. I went from extremely socially anxious dude with zero experience to scoring the exact girl I targeted, in less than a month. I was prepared to keep awkwardly failing and feel humiliation as a complete idiot for over a year without getting any sex, I was prepared for that for the sake of learning. But what happens? 2 weeks in I'm fvcking some chick for the first time in a 5 year celibacy. 4 weeks in I'm on girl #3 that I pre-selected and scored feeling confident as if I didn't know what anxiety was.

What the fvck happened? I pushed the comfort zone way way harder than I thought I did and exceeded all competition on the one thing that's most sexy, having the balls. So can you! Push towards doing exactly what your anxiety wants you to avoid, fvck the comfort zone. Have the balls!
 

marmel75

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The solution to any fear is to continuously out yourself in those situations and force yourself to overcome it.
 

jboyd5

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I've been forcing myself into more conversations, just talking more and trying to keep a conversation going by asking follow up questions.

But I still have such low self-esteem that I feel it shows on the way I ask questions or try to put in a joke or a tease.

When I'm at home, I feel good, I think "next time I'll say this and do that in that way how it should be". Until I'm in that group and the low self-esteem creeps up.

For example today I think I kinda messed up with a co-worker. I teased her, not in arrogant way, but you could tell by her response her mood was completely the other way around.

I'm not interested in her, but I try to tell myself "don't care, even if she is upset, it's better than that she is just neutral about you". I'm kind of using her as my little experiment in trying to become better. In that sense I kind of do care, there is still that beta in me. I envy the guys who have this IDGAF attitude or are just natural.

Sometimes I think I try too hard. It asks so much energy. I know that if I keep trying it will come more naturally, but I hate those moments where I **** up even though it was not meant like that.
Meditation
 

Serenity

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But I still have such low self-esteem that I feel it shows on the way I ask questions or try to put in a joke or a tease.
I know that if I keep trying it will come more naturally, but I hate those moments where I **** up even though it was not meant like that.
Forgot to clarify this in my previous post. This is the root fear of social anxiety, the fear of fvcking it up. The belief you have low self-esteem sustains it and your attempts at conversation are not challenging enough to give the effect of exposure therapy. You have to really step out of your comfort zone and rather than scolding yourself for "fvcking up" you should praise yourself for pushing the boundaries. The point in overcoming anxiety is NOT to succeed at whatever you tried to do, it's doing something to achieve it in the first place. Your metric for success shouldn't be whether or not you got the desired outcome, it should be whether or not you went all in trying to get it.

So what if your joke was lame or your question a dead end? Will you be harmed by it? No, you'll feel humiliation and it will pass, but you'll also feel a sense of pride knowing you went out of your comfort zone. The first feeling will teach you to do something else the next time, the second feeling will keep you going even if you feel clueless and awkward.

Although I overcame my anxiety I still wasn't anywhere near good social calibration. Embracing failure allowed me to get to that point rather quickly and made me immune to humiliation. I messed up a lot and once I stopped fearing it I could joke about myself, people love that sh!t. That last girl I met in my above story, I eventually messed up and lost her. I had her for 3 weeks, but I came into several situations I lacked experience with and blind improvisation only takes you so far. I was ok with failing by then, I cared about learning from my experience. I lost her due to my frame eventually breaking down and made too much of an effort to keep her, common beta mistake. But the first hand experience and realization of mistakes taught me a lot, from that experience alone I learned congruency, not changing the frame as things progress.

I also spent some time contemplating what to say and how to say it, just like you do now. I learned that this is a waste of time because you cannot predict the responses of people you barely or don't know, thus you can't prepare the answers like you would for a test. This is merely an attempt of your mind to escape the discomfort and it's ineffective. What you'd want to do is deny yourself to think about what to say, then throw yourself into a situation even though you're convinced you'll go silent. Feel that pressure as you consider the idea I propose? That pressure will help you out once you've put yourself in the situation, it's also a neat way to abuse your inclination towards minimizing awkwardness. Once you've started a conversation it'll be better to say anything than to just awkwardly turn around and walk away, that's the point of no return.

I remember another eye opening experience, that's how I learned this trick. I was out with my cousin at a club, she joked that I'd approach a girl sitting over at another table. With my newly found love for fvcking up I said "K", stood up with no hesitation and walked over to introduce myself. I had never done cold approach until then, I had no idea what to say or do after introducing myself. That was the point though, that's why I actually did what she joked about. I expected that my mind under pressure would have to come up with something to avoid awkward silence or worse, walking away feeling like a loser. So it did and a fully improvised conversation there was, too bad she wasn't interested though. But she was polite at least. A failure it was, but it got overshadowed by a sense of pride in putting myself through that intense discomfort and at least trying something.

So embrace fvcking up, use your fears as a guide telling what boundary to push next, not as something telling you what to avoid. Rip that band-aid right of instead of slowly torturing yourself by taking it a little at the time.
 

SayWhat

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Thanks a lot for all your responses. It's amazing you can achieve it in 4 weeks, but I always feel it's something you have to have in you to be able to go from bottom to top that fast. I'm going to throw myself in social situations. I don't encounter many, but going to try to get the most out of them all.

I am like you was on OLD Grewd. I had matches on OLD, but just didn't start conversations because I was afraid of being rejected in the end or not knowing what to say.

Just for an example of how bad I had it, there were times I was ashamed of using my windscreen wipers to clean my window on a sunny day. Simply because of what other drivers might think of me using my wipers when it's not raining. I simply waited till there was no opposite traffic... Thank god I'm over that, but yeah it's deeply ingrained and I still have a long way to go.
 

fastlife

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Best way in my opinion is to welcome/embrace the anxiety and pursue the goal regardless.
People pay thousands of dollars in some cases for this advice - i'll give it to you for free ----- you have to stop running away from your fear and confront it. You have to put yourself in situations that are out of your comfort zone until you overcome your fears.

Start simple - just say hi to a random stranger. The next day say hi to another, day after say hi to two people etc. Eventually work up to a conversation. In time you'll be more at ease if you do this.
This. Your brain works on a feedback loop, based on subconscious conclusions. This action = consequence = bad. This action = reward = good. The good news is your brain is doing its job: its ability to draw these conclusions has enabled you to survive. The bad news is that your brain is more interested in survival (not being ostracized by the tribe & left out in the wild) than it is in your happiness--and chances are that a lot of its conclusions are completely fvcked up: after all, your brain works on a predictive model and can't possibly test out all the differences in nuance & context without your conscious intervention.

The idea is to provide your brain enough proof that socialization is safe. You don't die; no one hates you; no one even really remembers you--and even if they remember you negatively you can usually flip that perception later on. Your brain errs on the side of caution--that's OK, it wants you to survive. But you want the reward that lays on the other side of that perceived risk: Freedom, Options, Self-Expression. So we're going to ignore our brain.

Even now, after thousands of approaches that have resulted in making friends, getting jobs, being invited to parties, hanging out with celebrities, and plenty of really awesome nights, there are still nights where I go out & my brain tries to convince me that I shouldn't approach--that I'm off tonight or that the guy standing next to her is probably her boyfriend or my friends will see me get rejected and won't like me anymore (which never happens btw). In these cases, the best thing I've found is to just keep repeating to myself, Embrace the awkardness, embrace the awkwardness, embrace the awkwardness--and to just fvcking do it to see what happens.

Meditation also helps immensely in the process of rewiring your brain and learning how to consciously override your brain. I made an in-depth thread about that here:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/create-your-own-confidence-how-to-be-you.233590/
 

SayWhat

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Past few days I've pushed myself in a few more conversations I would normally not start. Touched girls on their shoulders when giving them a kiss on the cheek (welcome greeting where I live). Tried to hold eye contact longer,...

Long way to go, but it feels good. Lets hope I can keep this going, although today I feel bit more 'down'. Still a bit afraid at these moments that if I do still try and push myself into situations, they'll come over very forced and it comes over as creepy.

But yeah, I've been doing the same things for over years and only had sex with three girls and I'm 28. Definition of insanity I guess.

Yesterday, that girl at work left for home, but I had to stay a bit longer and told me blatantly "here you can read these magazines to figure out how a girls thinks if you get bored". I have this kind of supervising function where I have to be at work even though there is nothing to do. Is this just because they think I'm a weirdo, or because I missed on some cues?
 

exhausted

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You just have to stop caring in all realism.

When you don't give a **** then you don't give a ****.

You will have a better aura about yourself just being nice and nonchalant as opposed to nervous or withdrawn.

Don't be too hard on yourself I was like this as well even when i was a popular all state athlete in high school. Some of us just have difficulty
 
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