So this is why I keep getting rejected...

[Jariel]

Thank you all for the replies and some really helpful suggestions...

Cordoncordon: Thanks mate. I've always tried to accept and overcome my flaws head on, and I think this is the attitude I need to take towards this too. Not just for the sake of women, but for my own benefit too.

It's really interesting what you said about your OCD issue and how you forced yourself into overcoming it. I feel, to a certain extent, I need to do the same and catch myself in the act before forcing myself to stop.

LostandConfused: I really appreciate you putting a positive spin on this and I actually agree with most of what you said about being aware of your surroundings and letting her work for your attention. Unfortunately in my case, my attention flits around rapidly, almost like a nervous tic. A lot of the time I don't even know I'm doing it so would be impossible to act like I'm people watching or get her involved.

To be fair, I totally understand how it could turn women off, and why it takes a few dates for women to pick up on this. I often head into a first date very aware of the impression I'm creating. Bodylanguage, voice tone and alike are all very smooth and calculated. But when I start getting comfortable, that's when I lose my focus.

It's so ironic that the more relaxed I am, the more nervous I appear!

Fairshake: I don't try to look badass. I'm just a big imposing guy. The problem is that the impression women get from my ADD is not congruent with that.

Imagine taking out a feminine and elegant looking lady, then having her belch openly during a date or swear a lot. It's not what you'd want from someone like that.

TillTheEndOfTime: I will consider seeing a psychiatrist, though I feel there's not much they can tell me that I don't already know as I've tried every exercise, meditation and diet known to help the problem. It may be that I need to turn to drugs. I've booked an appointment with my doctor to see what he suggests and will take it from there.


SStype & Serg897: I'll come back to your points in the following reply as it's another huge aspect of this rejection.


Rubato: Thanks for the long mail and advice. I think medication may be my next step as I've run out of other possibilities and it really is affecting my life in a negative way...my whole life and not just the dating. I can't even sit through a 20 minute episode of my favourite TV programs without checking mails, texting, making myself a drink and pausing it over and over.


Cablecow: I used to feel that exact way, but once I started to gain confidence I noticed how much taller and more bold my bodylanguage became. I usually lean back in my chair now and spread myself out and when I walk, I hold my head high. Another thing that helped was working out, especially squats, as it helped physically adjust my posture.

That said, I really don't know what to do with my hands when I'm sitting or standing. Do I keep them at my side, put them on the table, lean on something...I really don't know.

I used to be a heavy smoker so that would help keep my hands busy, but ever since I gave up 5 years ago, my fidgetting has got a lot worse.


Zarky: Thanks for the suggestion. That sounds like a really good idea. Even though I know I do it, I don't actually know how it looks to other people. It may also make me more aware of it and therefore more able to stop it.

 

[Jariel]

SStype & Serg897: You're both totally right. I know it was a bad move having sex so quickly and this is another part of her rejection she pointed out to me. She felt ashamed that she broke her 5 date rule and admitted it changed things for the worse between us. Apparently she'd been really impressed that I still went to see her when she explicitly told me there would be no sex. She said it was refreshing to meet such a gentleman and found that a very attractive quality.

The problem is that all this seduction/PUA conditioning has made me think I have to rush into sex before she lands me in the friendzone and that being a gentleman is a bad thing, like being a "nice guy", when actually it's not. A lot of women truly respect that and I believe my gentlemanly behaviour is one of the big reasons I get past a woman's defences so easily. But in retrospect, I went back on that and undermined that impression. She told me she felt like I'd just said these things she wanted to hear when my intention was to get her into bed all along.

She accepted responsibility and said she'd been caught in the moment and was as much to blame as me, but once it was over she felt cheaped by it. She did tell me a few times as we were getting carried away that we shouldn't and showed hesitation, but she wasn't stopping so I continued.

This is another valuable lesson I've learned from this rejection and one I really need to re-evaluate if I'm to meet a girl for long term dating/relationship. I didn't have sex with some of my ex ltrs for a month or more after we started dating.

Although I've been very lucky to sleep with a lot of beautiful and sexy women, I'm starting to realise that seduction and picking up is a very different game to forming relationships.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

Sex has nothing to do with her fading interest in you.

I'm pressed on time so I'm going to make it short and to the point.

The reason your unsuccessful with girls is because you are not what you seem. You seem like a leader stature wise. Once they actually get to know you it doesn't seem like your the same bold/leader type. What you need to do is work on your body language as well as your language when your talking to these girls. Once these girls figure out that your not who they thought you were that's when they leave you.

Just work on your body language and inner game and you'll be able to keep some of these girls.

 

[snowdog]

I agree, that sounds like ADD. You gotta listen to the girl and look into her eyes and sh*t. Girls fall in love because of that stuff.

But I do know what you're talking about. My mind wanders all over the place also when I'm doing stuff I don't like. This does not include dealing with girls (I can focus on them just fine), but studying. When I have to study for many hours, I just take some anti-ADD pills (ritalin) a friend gave to me who actually has it. It makes me super focused without being distracted for hours and hours on boring sh*t. It's almost like cocaine but more subtle and less dangerous & crazy.

You can get them through your doc if he tests you positive on ADD. They're not expensive. Just be careful with that stuff. It can be addictive and it kinda puts you in a different head space. I like the super-focus rush it gives me but I also get kinda cranky and annoyed with people faster. I don't take it unless I really feel I need to. In the end, it f*cks with the chemicals in your brain.

It works different for everyone. My friend doesn't have any negatives with them at all and pops three of them a day. But I also know another guy who can't take them cos it makes him depressed.

 

[zekko]

Other girls have said this same thing and explained that it's a real turn off because it gives the impression I'm insecure and shy.

That got my attention because I've never heard a woman blatantly say that being shy is a turn off before. I mean, I know it's not an attractive trait, and I know they like boldness and confidence. I've just never heard a girl come out and say it was an actual turn off. I was quite shy when I was younger but I always tried to hide it, and I eventually worked myself out of it. I always felt that as a man, you have to step up to the plate regardless, whether you are shy or not. To me, that's what makes you a man - doing what needs to be done despite your weaknesses.

"Oh, you seem a little shy - next!"
"Oh, you look a little nervous - next!"
"Oh, you seem a little insecure - next!"

Are women really this unforgiving? Do they really expect perfection from you, or else they find you repulsive? I'm not so sure. I think IF they find you attractive, they will overlook a lot.

 

[Jariel]

PrettyBoyAJ: I agree. I lack congruency, at least on first impressions. I look like a bold, tough guy and I find majority of the women I've been with like to be treated rough in the bedroom, which tells me they're the submissive type seeking a strong male figure.

I am those things, but because my movements and bodylanguage are being misread, I end up getting prejudged as nervous and weak. The interesting thing is that some of my female friends who I've known for years have huge crushes on me and my ADD has not put them off. This, I assume, is because they've stuck around long enough to understand it's nothing to do with shyness.

As for the sex, I'm not sure how to take it really, but I'm sure most quality women think the same way we do. A girl who puts out for me on the first date has most likely put out for a lot of other guys too and is probably not relationship material. But it does seem that the less I rush things with women, the longer they stick around and the higher their interest is. I think it also has to do with being a challenge and making a woman work for sex.

snowdog: Thanks for the info mate. Good to hear the medication works well for you and definitely something I'm considering. I've lived with ADD all my life; it's got me into so much trouble and caused me to fail at so many things so I would love to experience life more focused and aware.

Right now, I'm practicing slowing down and keeping still for long periods. I'm trying to condition myself to fight against my urges to fidget and move around. When I hear a text on my phone or a noise, I'm trying my best to ignore it.

Like you say, the whole eye contact thing is essential to seduction. I know that and I try to practise it, but it's very hard to keep it up once I'm distracted. So this too must make it look like I'm nervous.


Zekko: I wouldn't say being shy is a turn off to all women, but to the women who look at me as a tough and dominant guy, it's sure to be a let down for them if I appear shy and nervy.

It does sound like they're being really picky and unforgiving, but I do understand completely. I'm sure we've all met a beautiful woman then found her personality or behaviour incongruent and offputting. And we also have to remember that there's no logic when it comes to attraction and women will often follow their instincts. In fact, in this latest rejection she actually used the phrase "gut feeling" to explain why she didn't think it would work.

As I said above, when women take more time to get to know me, they realise I'm not shy or nervous at all, but most women would rather end it sooner than later to avoid complications.

 

[Nexus Polaris]

It's difficult to really pinpoint what the real issue is without some video footage to watch you in action, but I will say this. I've already picked up on at least one red flag just from your post.

This.....

Well, this chick rejected me a few days later saying she felt intimidated that I was so sexually forward, but then she also said I'm too shy and nervy.

......looks like you're potentially coming across as passive/aggressive. Like you might not be coming across as authentically congruent with who you really are and as a result you might seem like you're overcompensating. One of my best friends who is about your size has had the same problem for most of his life. He's 6'4", over 200 lbs., and tough as nails. He's been with hundreds of women but always complains about how they never want to date him long term. His problem that his ego won't let him accept is that he's still insecure with himself deep down inside and it prevents him from ever turning off the "super alpha guy" switch. So he gets major attraction right off the bat but it always goes away after sex. The women are instantly turned on by his overt masculine qualities, but they lose interest once they realize he can't just chill and connect with them. Women need to feel connection to invest in something long term. And because he's always trying to maintain a certain image, he can't just relax and be himself.

The biggest thing that tipped me off that you might have a similar problem was this....

In fact, other girls, including those I banged, choked, spanked and thrown around during sex

This is the kind of stuff he does. There's a difference between rough sex and abuse. And the only kind of girls you're going to get that are into choking are ones with a ton of issues you probably don't want to deal with anyway. If you're choking girls regularly during sex, you're probably coming across as someone with severe control issues. And this will turn a lot of women off because addiction to control is a symptom of lack of control. It's like the jealous boyfriend that gets upset when his girl even says hello to another guy. It comes across as very beta.

The key is to find the line between dominant and controlling and not cross it. And only experience can teach you where that line is. It's just a matter of calibrating. Dominant will attract women. Controlling will drive them away.

 

[snowdog]

snowdog: Thanks for the info mate. Good to hear the medication works well for you and definitely something I'm considering. I've lived with ADD all my life; it's got me into so much trouble and caused me to fail at so many things so I would love to experience life more focused and aware.

Right now, I'm practicing slowing down and keeping still for long periods. I'm trying to condition myself to fight against my urges to fidget and move around. When I hear a text on my phone or a noise, I'm trying my best to ignore it.

Like you say, the whole eye contact thing is essential to seduction. I know that and I try to practise it, but it's very hard to keep it up once I'm distracted. So this too must make it look like I'm nervous.

Eye contact is important because it conveys your current headspace. But your body language does also. You can tell from someone's eyes if they're nervous, relaxed, in the moment, or crazy.

Like I said, Ritalin is great stuff, but be aware of what it does to you psychologically. It works different for everyone.

And by the way, the whole "big teddy-bear" thing that you described earlier, that's not a bad thing at AT ALL. If you're a big, friendly guy, don't try to change that, please. There are enough f*cking a**holes walking around as it is. Embrace your personality and make it work for you. Don't deny who you are.

I'm a naturally friendly and happy guy myself and I tried the whole tough guy/**shole persona. It never worked for me because it wasn't me. Being a friendly and nice guy is a positive thing. There's a big difference between coming from a loser state of mind and acting nice than being a cool, friendly guy who's pleasant to people. Combine that with confidence, a quick wit and a big sh*t-eating smile and you're on your way. Don't believe the whole alpha male equals being an a**hole thing.

Be yourself.

 

[nightcrawler]

As some of you regulars here will know that despite my great success seducing and banging women, I've had this recurring problem maintaining relationships and progressing beyond the first few dates with women.

I recently went on a couple of dates with this amazing HB9. We clicked so well and she was so into me. We ended up having sex on the 2nd date, which she insists is something she's never done before and that I broke her 5 date rule. It was amazing and afterwards she cuddled upto me and clung to me when it was time to go.

This, however, is how it usually goes. Really high IL, bordering on obsessive, but in the coming days I start sensing doubts and a fading interest. Well, this chick rejected me a few days later saying she felt intimidated that I was so sexually forward, but then she also said I'm too shy and nervy. In fact, other girls, including those I banged, choked, spanked and thrown around during sex have also used the "you're too shy" or "you're too sweet" rejection. How can that make sense?

So I asked her to explain. What I heard was something I've heard a few times before. My attention wanders too much, I fidget a lot and seem generally nervous and uncomfortable. She pointed out how we'd gone to a bar and I kept looking around me.

Other girls have said this same thing and explained that it's a real turn off because it gives the impression I'm insecure and shy. The truth is, I'm not at all shy. I hold the attention of groups of people and can ingratiate myself into any social circles. On a date, my heart rate doesn't budge.

I've brought this up in a thread elsewhere on this forum, but I have suffered from attention deficit disorder all of my life and that's the reason my attention darts around. I had no idea it could have such an impact on my dating and relationships or how it causes other to perceive me.

I've never been able to find a solution to this problem. I've tried meditation, yoga and even tried forcing myself to be aware of my behaviour...but I always get distracted from that and revert to my bad habits.

I think the offputting part for women is that it's totally incongruent with the way I look. I'm 6'4, 17 stone and muscular. People say I look like a badass, but I'm like a gentle giant when they get to know me. I fvcking hate that! I have no problem being a decent and respectful guy, but I don't want to be perceived as gentle, sweet and definitely not nervy.

But it's not just about women. I find it really difficult coping with a lot of basic tasks, following instructions and doing some basic things in life.

Is there anything a doctor can do to help or anything anyone can advise?

I feel like if I can fix this, I'll have the final piece in my DJ and self-improvement puzzle.

hello good sir,

Sounds to me like you're socially ackward.

Social ackwardness is the result of not being comfortable in your own skin.

Granted, nobody's is "really really" comfortable in their own skin but we all learn to control our discomfort...however, your degree of discomfort is so big that others notice, and in turn, it makes you seem like a dork/creeper/rapist/virgin.

I'm not sure what advice to give you regarding this issue....all of us find our own ways to cope with such things.

What I can tell you is, that recognize you have a problem, that you need help, and take whatever action you think is necessary in order to overcome it.

 

[Jariel]

Major Update!!

Well, I have an update on this issue and it seems that chick who rejected me did me a massive favour by telling me why.

I had a date a couple of days later and I tried to pay more attention to my actions. We met in a crowded bar and within minutes I caught myself doing exactly what this woman had said. Whenever anyone walked past, I found it totally broke my train of thought and my attention turned to them. The first time I actually turned to look at them. It wasn't a smooth scanning motion either; I turned very quickly like you would if you caught someone creeping up on you. Although I was feeling relaxed and cool, I could see how others would perceive this as nervous behaviour.

In fact, with any kind of movement, raised voice or noise, I had this urge to turn and look, except this time I was aware of it and was able to stop myself beforehand.

Until that point, I never realised just how much I did this or how I looked when I did it, but it instantly made sense. But by becoming aware of the problem, I was able to control it. For the rest of the night, I made a point of keeping my neck somewhat locked and focused my eyes on hers. And when I did turn, I made sure to do it in a slow and calculated manner. I also caught myself wanting to scratch my head, rub my nose and other such tics, but again, I stopped myself. It was hard work, but so is any kind of self-development or reconditioning, and I'm sure it will get easier.

It makes so much more sense to me now why things start so well, then fail by the end of a date or by the second/third date. When I initially meet up with a girl I’m very aware of myself and I’m trying to make a good impression. Therefore, I have more control over my actions. However, as I become more relaxed with that person, I let my guard down, stop being so self conscious and my bad habits and tics start emerging. It so ironic that the more relaxed I am, the more on edge people perceive me.

It's like when you first start driving a car, you are aware of every movement, every pedal, button, pedestrial etc, but once you get used to it, you're hanging your arm out the window, singing along to your stereo, text messaging on your phone and all these other bad habits.

So, I realise now that to overcome this problem I just need to remain aware of myself and make a conscious effort to stop these tics.

Well, here's the revelation...

I've dated 7 women since I was rejected and I've put all this into practice. I've not been rejected by any of them and they're all really keen to see me again! I don't have enough time in my week to fit them in.

So far so good...I'll keep you posted.