So I followed the 3rd date rule.

[imgamens]

This was my third date with a girl- we spent the entire night together 12 hours up, zero sleep- we bonded and spent a very romantic night with one another, we did a bunch of different activities on the date.

During the date she was trying to qualify me- and she was projecting into the future saying how she would cook for me among other things. Don’t worry I have some game as well, I went C/F and qualified and negged her as well.

Many times during our time spent together she told me- she was old school, and that I would have to bend my rules for her. This old school thing I also figured meant she wouldn’t put out quickly.
She is around 35 to 37 ish and had a LTR with a man in her past so she is no innocent virgin.

the last place we went to was a bar- we had a few drinks and she proceeded to tell me she was a little drunk- IMO she wasn’t drunk at all. Maybe just a little buzzed i think she was sober. but she mentioned she was drunk a few times- i call BS on that.

We went back to her place- and we got hot and heavy- extremely hot on the floor.
I was rubbing her crotch- she let me.
We were dry humping.
We were making out like bandits on the floor- moving furniture all over the place.
Then she turned the music on, some romantic ****.

I tried to take off her belt- she wouldn’t let me. This upset me.
Every time I unbuckled her belt she immediately buckled it.

At some point I got my hand in her pants without taking the belt off so I was rubbing the crotch. Then I got under the panties- but It was hard to maneuver my hand through the belt and the jeans but I did get to finger her a little bit- very hard to do it though- with the belt on and the tight jeans.

At some point I began to fall for her that night- I could feel my emotions welling up, and I know my eyes were showing it.

So I thought we had a great night; also It just happened to be the third date- a wonderful 12 hour night, and if that wasn’t good for her to open up to me I was going to get upset.

Now before I went on this date I had just read about the iron rules and pook so I knew we just had to have sex- especially since I was beginning to fall for this girl.

So since her belt wasn’t coming off- I took mine off and pulled my **** out- she began to jerk me very well- while she was jerking me- I tried to gently guide her head to get her to blow me, on my last attempt I pushed her head with a little more force- she told me she wasn’t going to blow me in a belligerent manner.

So she continued to jerk me off, I stopped her before I came- I didn’t want to *** in her hand.

At this point we took a break. Then she told me at 5 in the morning I could spend the night.
I was so angry I really thought about leaving, but It was so late- that I calmed down and figured I would try again in bed.

She left the room to put her jammies on.

So once we are in her bed, she begins to cuddle with me, I start to slowly very slowly feel her up, and kiss on her. I start from her head and work my way down to her *****- I take it real slow it takes like 20 minutes- and once again I begin to finger her. Then I get on top of her and kiss her with direct intense eye contact- then I go to take the pants off- just the pj pants not the panties and she forcefully stops me!
At this point I am Very frustrated.

If she would have blown me, or gotten naked in front me, even if she would let me get her down to her panties, I would have forgiven no sex that night. But with none of the above I was upset.

So, I get off of her and lean away, and then she puts her head on my chest, and asks: what’s wrong? What are you thinking? Are you mad?

I pretty much ignore her and cuddle with her and play with her hair for a minute, but this angers me- I don’t want to let her cuddle without the sex!
So I push her off of me, and say nothing.
She proceeds to fall asleep.
I cannot fall asleep- so I reread the iron rules on the no sex on the 3rd date.
I write her a short note telling her simply:
We shouldn’t see each other again.

I begin to leave; she then woke up right before I walked out.
She didn’t see the note yet, so I said good bye kissed her quickly on the lips and walked out.
Five minutes after I left she then found the note and proceeded to call me once and text me once. I didn’t answer the phone call or the text.

She didn’t leave a VM, and her text was just a question mark.

I was falling for this girl, and it upset me that she didn’t have an animal attraction to me. Before I read Tomassi rules I would have waited it out for another date or two, but now I knew I had to leave.

Would you guys have given it another chance?
So far it’s been a week and I haven’t heard from her, I’ve already gone on another date with a different plate, and that helped me to ease the pain from this a little.

Still, this one hurt!

BTW:
All of my AFC friends told me i did the wrong thing. they all told me she was afraid of giving up, that she had been hurt in the past, and that she needed more time with me.

To this i say that we spent a large amount of time- i thought we shared a special night, anytime you spend the entire night up with a girl it can feel special- if that wasn't good enough for her- what would be?

The alternative would have been to sit at a bar all night getting piss drunk off of shots and then drunk and sloppy sex. That’s what the next night would have turned into.

I want the girl to want to have sex- not for her to feel that it is an obligation. It would have been natural and spontaneous to have it that night- to have it on a different night it would have felt forced.

 

[Luthor Rex]

If a woman is 37 years old, has experience, and doesn't understand that getting hot & heavy with a guy like that but not bringing him to orgasm is extremely frustrating then she's either an idiot or she doesn't give a sh!t about how the guy feels.

Seriously, you're not 16. As a teen I would expect to hear about what you just typed, but not in your 30's.

 

[imgamens]

Luthor Rex:
she was going to jerk me off to completion.
And believe me- if i hadn’t read Tomassi rules- i would have stayed with her!

Game came late to me. i just began to read this site a few weeks ago.
All of my AFC friends told me that I was in the wrong!
Explain that one?

samspade:
i agree- i did not want to fall for her.
it wasnt just that it was a day 3, it is also that we had a great night- and it was an all-nighter.

samspade:
it was on my iphone.

 

[imgamens]

samspade:
it was on my iphone.

DonS:
nope- true story.
Would i write all of that as a goof? That was a pretty detailed post.

Gentlemen- i appreciate the tough love, but take it a little easy on me- please. I am new to game and this site. This was my first post. And i have only begun to use game for a few months.

i know I fall for some women easily- too easily.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

The Victory Unlimited New Recruit Briefing:


Consider the information you get here as WEAPONS for you to sample. Pick out a few, try them out, use them on a few FIELD MISSIONS, THEN decide whether or not THAT weapon is worthy to be added to YOUR arsenal.

If not, then throw it away and yank another big assed Uzi from off the DJ Gunrack. Do this until you get SO comfortable using the techniques, strategies, and weapons that you INTERNALIZE THEM---and they become a part of who YOU are. You must focus on becoming a LIVING WEAPON.

Never change anything you like about yourself (ESPECIALLY if it's working) just because the DJ Bible or some famous poster says it's Wack. Filter your training here through the lens of behaviors that you have ALREADY battle-tested for yourself. Is who YOU are working? Or is it NOT?

Dont' fall into the trap of HORIZONTAL THINKING and assume like many here that ALL women are EXACTLY the same. Yes, there are MANY similiarities, so ONLY those that break the mold in a POSITIVE way should merit more than 5 minutes of your concentrated attention. But until one rises to the top by the BEHAVIORS towards you that she exhibits, treat them all the same.

Continue to focus on being a better man. SoSuave is just a headquarters, a training ground, a military school for you to use to build yoursef into a TRUE MASCULINE MAN. In MY branch of the soSuave Armed Services, this is defined as a MAN who rules himself----and is NOT ruled by women, his hormones, his weaknesses, OR the 'half-assed" opinions of other people. So BATTLE-TEST every goddammed thing...

As you go about your missions, you will find that there are women that you need to use only a minimum amount of strategies, techniques, and weapons to engage. And you will also meet women who REQUIRE that you use your WHOLE arsenal in order to engage. Much of this depends on how high that woman's interest in YOU actually is.

Growth into a mature man is often predicated on how well you can discern the two apart, AND how DEDICATED you are to ONLY engaging those women that you suspect will ultimately ADD to your life rather than detract from it.

Welcome to the War, soldier.

You HAVE been briefed.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Imgamens,




Since you're posting this in the Mature Man's section, I'll go ahead and speak to your "sex/no-sex skirmish" directly. I am presupposing that you are further along enough to understand this:

Whatever you can't say NO to is your Master, and you are it's SLAVE.

There is a time to push an issue, and there's a time to let it go----at least for THAT night. Many are the women who will want to manipulate a man for their own ends, or to their own amusement-----but there are also women who actually don't want to feel like they "gave it up" too easy, because they really do care if the guy perceives of them as a slut-----and therefore, unfit for an exclusive LTR.

The woman you've written about could be one of the two, or BOTH-----as the 12 hour date(?) went on. However, no matter what the woman's motives were at any given point, a man can usually emerge from any dating/romantic interaction scenario with his best interest served by simply keeping his focus on ONE thing:

Defining and defending his line of SELF RESPECT.

Self respect should have told you at some point during that evening that you were crossing the line of PERSISTENCE over into the territory of PRESSURE.

Self respect should have told you at some point during that evening that you were crossing the line of WANTING to have sex with the woman over into the territory of NEEDING to have sex with her.

Self respect should have told you at some point during that evening that you MIGHT have been better served by maintaining your cool, and just calmly ending the night at a HIGH point in the "heavy petting". There would have been a better chance of her dive-tackling your ass before you made it out the door if you'd have taken THAT tactic. Or, at the very least, that tactic would have made you appear to be a man who WOULD NOT be a slave to her attempts at controlling your behavior through access to her sexuality.

However, this is just MY view. You will find that many here will take, and share a DIFFERENT view from mine. Which is fine. The take home message for YOU is to realize that as we continue to advance forward in this war to get better at life and get better with women, is that all of this requires that you ultimately take a more nuianced approach to everything you learn here (or anywhere else).

Your goal is to be more and more YOUR OWN man. Beware of blindly and religiously becoming a member of the CULT OF PERSONALITY. Many of us here have peoplr that respect us, our views, or our unique ways of delivering our messages------but still, the ultimate advice to follow-----AFTER you have informed yourself by exposing yourself to a wide range of "teachers", is-------

......your OWN advice.

As you learn, also learn to TRUST yourself-----and do not FOREVER plan your executions of your romantic endeavors based SOLELY on the experiences of other men. Especially men who may or may NOT be of the same personality, temperament, or stage of life that YOU might presently be in.


In the future, HOLD your line of Self Respect, soldier--------and this kind of shyt won't happen to you again.




Soldier On.

 

[shaunuk]

You should've let her w*nk you off. "Not wanting to cvm in her hand" makes you sound like a total pvssy.

Then you'd probably have fvcked her next time you met up.

When you got into bed with her, you should've asked her to w*nk you off...there's no reason why she wouldn't have done it. But instead you were being full-on with all this intense eye-contact b*llocks. I know eye-contact is stressed but for god's sake, a bit of context please.

But instead, you got upset and fvcked off home. Instead you could've j1zzed all over her hand, slept in her bed, and then fvcked her next time.

 

[imgamens]

shaunuk:
i don't like it when girls jerk me off- i can jerk myself off.
I was lying on the ground, and i didn’t want to *** on her hand and on my clothes- i didn’t want to go limp like that on our first meeting- i tried to get her to blow me- she wasn’t having it. I don’t care where I come- I just didn’t want junk all over me.

Also i think its demeaning to have a girl wank you before you have even had sex. Why would i want to go limp with her on that night?

 

[imgamens]

I should have prefaced with this:

Recently one of my close friends was denied sex time and again after one real date and then another- so this was also fresh on my mind. She denied him sex on the third, fourth and fifth date- then he broke it off with her.

Also:
I have been a weak AFC almost my entire life, and I know the pain of the LJBF all too well!

Finally I have begun to see the light- partly because of this site, and I guess I thought she was prepping me for the LJBF box.

For both of us I felt it was right for sex to occur that night- if it was a regular date, if we hadn’t spent 12 hours together I might not have thought sex was necessary right then and there.

I was emotional, and I shouldn’t have been- it sucks, but I wasn’t expecting to feel that way.

 

[imgamens]

It felt as if she was being disrespectful by trying to cuddle.
She was asking what was wrong. But she knew damn well what was wrong.
She asked what I was thinking- but she already knew.
It seemed to be A courtesy cuddle.


It seemed to me at the time, that she was trying to play with my head in an inappropriate manner.

That is what put me over the edge- it felt as if she was taunting me.
At the very least she could have gotten naked- she did see my **** after all.

I’ve felt and experienced this before in my not too distant blind and ignorant AFC past.

She denied me sex- and she was going to throw that back in my face- but since she thought she was such a "great catch" she assumed that I was going to enjoy cuddling with her the same as if we did have sex- and she was probably hoping that I would wine and dine her one last time before she LJBFed me.

Cuddling is what a girl is entitled to after sex. As Dr. Paul says she was trying to take my resources for free. Also i have recently read that women's testosterone levels rise more when cuddling than when they are having sex with a man.

 

[jophil28]

VU talks, smart guys listen.

That woman was aroused, and tracking you, until you started to push her hard by trying to take off her pants. She resisted, and you pushed harder. Big mistake.
Just because you read some Iron rules here does not make the advice absolute or even universally wise. These are guidelines only . Same goes for Pook.
You have to guage the woman interest level, and read her comfort level and readiness to have sex. Some take a LOT longer than others for myriad reasons.THis woman has rising attrction, rising arousal , but still low comfort level.
The 3 date rule is not a rule at all ,it is a rough guide, as is the mistaked belief that a woman who is "making you wait" is playing games with you.
If those "rules' were universally applicable then you would not have needed to make this thread.

THis woman was showing all the signs of RISING interest/arousal level. IF you had better developed the skills of 'reading' her actions,the outcome would have been quite different.
When she resisted your attempts to unbuckle her, you should have backed off.
You can't make a woman want to fuk who is not ready. You cannot tow a woman down the home stretch at high speed like you did .
The way to get past ASD is to escalate slowly and incrementally, not go at her relentlessly like a bulldozer with some BS 'rules' driving you.

One more date, and a little more SMOOTH escalation, and she would have been tearing at your belt..

Live and learn.

 

[jophil28]

Would you guys have given it another chance?
So far it’s been a week and I haven’t heard from her, I’ve already gone on another date with a different plate, and that helped me to ease the pain from this a little.

Still, this one hurt!

You are not a kid in a Tshirt and jeans with zits. You are a mature man who needs to act like one.
A woman who is 37 years old is a different animal to a 23 year old college kid who is slipping and sliding after a night at the bar.

Exactly how old are you ?

 

[imgamens]

This is not what I expected.
I thought most of you would have agreed with what I did.

My thinking goes like this:
If she thought I was a catch- she would have slept with me.
We spent enough time together for her to know that I wasn’t just looking to **** and leave her.

I know -I KNOW- she saw how I was looking at her with my eyes- I began to think of her as relationship material right there and then.

Gentlemen I had meaningless sex with another girl two weeks ago, and that went smooth I did not feel anything other than on my ****.

But with this girl: If she liked me- and she knew how I was feeling that should have been enough for her to open up to me.

I am working on a new younger and prettier plate- same deal- she will be a nice experience and some fun, BUT I already know I wont feel this way with my new plate.

So here is my reasoning:
She was screening me for beta provider- not alpha ****.
Sure she might have had sex with me later on- but it wouldn’t have been primal animal sex.
I am sick of being labeled the beta provider- I want someone to want to **** the **** out of me because they need it and want it badly!

Obviously I wasn’t making her wet enough, And that hurt me on a very personal level!
That was the night to have sex- I did it all- all kinds of romantic scenarios, but I was still C/F and negging- and qualifying- but it just wasn’t enough.

And when your best isn’t good enough- that hurts.

 

[imgamens]

jophil28 and VU:
thank you for the advice.

I am in my early 30’s.
And precisely because she is between 35 and 37 I also did not expect her to treat sex as if she was a virginal princess.

Since most of you disagree with me I have another question.
Is there any way to salvage this?

What could I possible write or say to her?

Still I know there must be someone here that agrees with me.

 

[scrouds]

Dude, you were all push.

Pull a little too. Back off a little and let her catch up and go after you. I may not be all that experienced and probably shouldn't even be posting in mature man in reality, but this totally sounds like you were going too hard for her.

I've been in situations like this where you're going for what you want and going nowhere. In fact the specific time i'm thinking is with my last ex that she was pissed at me for something or other and we were in her bed cuddling but she was still pissed off not to let it go further. All I had to do was push back from her, make less contact and de-escalate the situation. That's when she turned around, grabbed on to me and started making out, and it was on.

 

[Rounder]

Gentlemen- i appreciate the tough love, but take it a little easy on me- please. I am new to game and this site.

The guys who know their game will not be easy on you. Nor should they be! You'll get better faster that way. At first it might not feel like it because you're taking it so personally. If you stay active on the boards and keep your head right you'll learn fast and in a year you can change dramatically.

Get another girl or 2 in the rotation.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

jophil28 and VU:
thank you for the advice...

Still I know there must be someone here that agrees with me.

The guys who "agree" with you will be in shortly.

I believe their shift starts at the top of the hour, so just hang on. They usually show up when guys like myself, JOPHIL, etc. go on break.



But seriously...it's not about agreeing with you or disagreeing with you. What it's about is staying the course in dating/relationship waters until you arrive at a "shore" where you're comfortable in your OWN skin. Now having said that, as far as how you can smooth this over...well seeing as how my screenname IS what it "is", I'll be the last one to say that it's hopeless, BUT----

----I WILL say you're gonna have to take one hell of a LONG RANGE shot to hit this target. Short of simply calling her and apologizing for writing that note, then blaming it on a temporary loss of sanity based on a flashback of a woman from your past that teased you WITHOUT any serious interest in you, then hoping this girl buys the story and somehow forgives you-------I'm at a loss as to what to advise you to do in this case.

The fact that it's been so long "a week" since your last contact, makes this shot in the dark suggestion even more daunting. Hell, even if you did pull off your own version of an apology of "Bill Clinton-esque" proportions...you STILL will most likely have to contend with her looking at you differently from here on out. And when you make a "hat in hand" type of gesture like this to her, it's almost a foregone conclusion that what you'll be doing is practically signing off on giving her the "relationship" that you believe she may be looking for.

Are you READY to go on THAT tour of duty, soldier?????

Also, if you do decide to come at her, or ANY woman, apologetically, you have to then resolve to only do it ONCE. Because the likelihood of her throwing the shyt back up in your face as the relationship continues seems very high to me.

If a man does some shyt dumb enough for him to have to apologize, I believe he SHOULD apologize. And do it sincerely.

But he should only do it ONCE. Then get on with his life of doing and being better. And he should NEVER apologize for the same thing AGAIN. Because that would be tantamount to becoming somebody's personal "ass kisser" ON DEMAND.

Do you think enough of her to stay with her if she starts doing that?

And are you internally strong enough to withstand her future attempts to "shame" you into submission by reminding you of what you did whenever she might be angry with you?

Again, what I'm offering here are suggestions. Only YOU can answer these questions for yourself. I think that the likelihood of this one being salvaged is dangerously close to a suicide mission. BUT----if you think this will give you the closure you need, then consider it.

But the bottom line is STILL the BOTTOM LINE:

Can you approach this woman and attempt to make amends and still RETAIN your SELF RESPECT?


It's YOUR call, soldier.

 

[Warrior74]

Sometimes you gotta tease to please.

Sometimes you have to take it extra slow and let her come to a boil....you have to be in control of you, so you can allow her to loose control. Spend more time turning her on and less trying to ram your cawk in her mouth. She'll do it eventually, trust me. Make that first time foreplay magic, then fvck her like a dirty hor later!

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Jesus Christ, it was like a Mils and Boon novel

 

[guru1000]

So you read a few of Rollo's rules and disqualify a girl who didn't give up the goods by date three. Yet if this girl banged your brains out on date 1, she would be a worthwhile investment?

Do you honestly believe EVERY girl who is into you will f*ck you by date three?

If the girl is escalating and continues to date you, she finds you attractive. What you have done is taken an admirable quality, which is self control, and punished her for it. Continue with this mentality and you will build yourself a harem full of hoars, not quality contenders. Take what is written here with a grain of salt, and apply some common sense in your interactions. You clearly misunderstood her intentions. She applied her ASD and still escalated as a result of high IL in you, not low. You represented the wrong imagery in your head and reinforced it with a rule that is a flawed theory.

Going forward, if you plan to surround yourself with the highest quality candidates, disqualify her for disrespect not self respect.