So apparently I don’t have any charisma, charm, magnetism etc.

[Maxtro]

Something really simple to try if you haven't already:

Give your usual smile that you'd flash a girl when you first meet her, but DO NOT do it in front of a mirror. Do it next to a mirror looking away from it.

Keep that smile and turn and face a mirror. You might be surprised that how your face feels isn't quite how it looks. You may think that you're flashing a sly smile, but it may look creepy. You may think you look friendly, but maybe your eyes are too wide and you look crazed.

You'll only know for sure if you try your smile without looking in a mirror and then hold a mirror up or turn to one.

I had to do this and I was occasionally surprised by what I saw looking back at me. It has helped me generate consistent and graded smiles and looks that I can use when I feel a certain way, being confident that I look emotionally exactly as intended.

LOL @ at the creepy wide eyed crazy smile.

I'm actually very bad at giving a forced smile. So I find it hard to flash smiles at girls. Though I do smile a lot when I'm happy and have been told by girls that I have a nice smile

Welcome back Max.

Thanks.
Though I actually didn’t want to come back till I actually accomplished something. For once I wanted to be the one giving advice and not always taking it.

As far as fighting the negativity, I like affirmations. They aren't a magic bullet, but they can help your inner game. This will eventually reflect outwards and give you a more positive, fun vibe.

I have tried affirmations and self-hypnosis. I'm just too stubborn for them to actually work.

My internal dialog is so overwhelmingly negative, nothing short of electroshock therapy seems to work and I haven't tried that yet.

As for having to watch the other guy getting more positive attention from the girl(s), we've all been there. There are three stages of that in my opinion:

Stage 1:

"I see the other guy getting all the girls. I hate that a*&h*le. Why can't those b*tches be into me?"

In this stage, work as a hard as you can to IGNORE what the other guys are doing and focus exclusively on YOUR interactions with the girls. Watching his "success" will only bring you down at this stage.

State 2:

"That dude is doing pretty well. That's ok. I have my moments too. Let's see what he's doing. Maybe I can learn something new."

In this state, you can continue to run your game while also being a bit observant and maybe learning some new things.

Stage 3:

You are the guy that gets the girls. Other guys hate you lol.


Anyway, back to your story... You are probably correct that the other guy had a more fun, charismatic vibe. So you definitely need to work on your inner game to boost YOUR vibe.

I don't know that this other guy looks like, but that could be a factor too. Girls get all giggly and intrigued by a guy they find good looking. He can say and do the dumbest sh*t, and they will love it. But don't worry about this part since we have no control over other guys' looks.

I think I’m on stage 1.7 right now. I’m trying to learn what other guys are doing, but I’m still not fully over the jealousy. Right now it seems that I merely tolerate other guys but every now and then I see them as competition in a war that I’m losing.

Bullsh!t.

If you were a guy who couldn't get the girls you ARE attracted to, you would MUCH rather get the ones a step below then not get any at all.

If you're a virgin, there is an unquantifiable amount of confidence to gain by banging any girl pretty much.

Maxtro may not be a virgin, but mentally, he is. He needs to go through the entire process of meeting a girl, attracting said girl, isolating her, seducing her, and sexing her. This could be a very fast process (party, bar, etc), or a slower on (dance class). Either way, once that happens, his entire outlook will change, and it doesn't really matter who she is IMO.

It will be easier the less attractive she is. By all means don't go bang HB2, but if she's even somewhat decent, it will be a huge boon to your game.

Wow ARrocket, I'm shocked that you understand me so well and remembered what I've said about myself. Mentally and emotionally a virgin. That describes me perfectly as the sexual encounters I've had, don't count.

One thing though, are less attractive girls really easier? I've realized that if a girl is below a certain threshold in looks, like a 4 or below, she may be more aggressive, but she still has to be attracted to you in the first place.

BTW, I'm not looking for the quick thing bar or party, I want a relationship and to finally experience some intimacy.

Maxtro, to put your scenario into a decent comparison, you seem like a child that just discovered what death is. I mean its grim but true.

Wow, that's perfect. And I am truly scared. Now I need to somehow come to the point that I accept that death will come but it is not something to be feared. That life actually isn't hopeless.

Man when i was dancing back in high school, the same thing happened to me, and i didn't even realize what the problem was until a few years later. Women are very emotional creatures, what ever emotion you emit, that's what they are going to pickup, sounds to me like they didn't like it.

That's a lot to think about. So women strongly react to what I emit. If I'm insecure and confused then they will be as well. Once again, another terrifying realization.

Every now and then I meet the rare women who is so confident and secure in herself that she's immune to the vibes that I put out. So then I use her energy to feel good then we have a good time. But the problem is that she does that with every guy and I'm actually nothing special at all.

Man this gives me a headache.

Don't try and be perfect. Improve your skills, your understanding, and your attitude. The rest will fall into place all there own.

I know im qouting pook, but damnit its one of the best things I've heard in a long time. Believe and you shall become.

One thing I do, is keep trying. It took me half the class period to learn the samba steps but once I did, I was finally having fun. The girls I was dancing with seemed to be having more fun as well, since I knew what I was doing and wasn't depending on them for help and support.

Too bad I got here after Pook left. Though he would have probably ignored me, or hated me

You assume incorrectly. I tried doing the ugly girl thing and working my way up, didn't really work out too well, I'd rather masturbate to porn than keep ****ing ugly girls.

Kerpal, I don't think ARrocket is advocating sleeping with ugly girls. But to be with girls that you think are merely decent.

Even then it really applies to me because I don't have any sexual experience at all.

If a 5 showed interest in me, damn right I would go for it. At this stage in the game, I need confidence and experience more than anything.

Well thats your problem, your going into the situation thinking it doesn't matter what you do, the woman is either going to accept you or reject you. Its more in your hands, not to mention but your the prize not her, would you really want to date a girl that is a weird anime chick, or some cheerleader who can't spell. You are the one making a choice.

I was at a barbeque yesterday and i was talking to some spanish chick, but i had no intention of asking her out, or getting her number or anything, i just didn't want to. And then i realised, its whenever i don't give a **** if they turn me down or whatever, thats when my game is at my best. You are the one making the choice, not her.

I love weird anime chicks The last girl that I heavily pursued was one. We had so many things in common. I have no idea why she rejected me. I think she was gay, or only into bishonen guys. (do a google image search.) She is white.

Right now, I'm not the prize. I'll gladly take whatever is given as long as it meets my minimum.

 

[Thundernuts]

read the book of pook, please. I mean im not saying your an idiot, but you got to change your outlook a little because you won't get far with that attitude man.

you seriously better read it, or i will send a smiley with a stick to beat your ass.:trouble:

 

[Maxtro]

I've read it a few times already.

What really interests me is what you said about women and how my emotions and actions have a big impact on how they act.

Which makes me wonder if I shouldn't try to pick up women when I'm doing things that I don't feel confident with.

One thing that I'm starting to realize, is that there is a lot more to being a man than I thought there is.

 

[ARrocket]

One thing though, are less attractive girls really easier?

Of course.

I've realized that if a girl is below a certain threshold in looks, like a 4 or below, she may be more aggressive, but she still has to be attracted to you in the first place.

Of course.

Think of it this way: If you are a 6, and you try to get a 7, it will be difficult. If you are a 6, and you try to get a 5, it will be easier. If you are a 6, and you try to get a 1, it shouldn't be any problem at all. Theoretically, of course. In real life...it still gets easier the uglier they get, because they lower they are, the better you seem!

BTW, I'm not looking for the quick thing bar or party, I want a relationship and to finally experience some intimacy.

I can respect that, but I can't really give any solid advice given that condition, as it's not what I'm looking for at the moment. Eventually, but not today.

In my mind, it works like this: If I'm going to get into a relationship with someone, it's probably someone I've fooled around with already. I sleep with her a few times, and then realize that I really like spending time with this person. So looks don't really come into play in that sense, because I genuinely LIKE that person. So for me (and this is what I think will be the most effective, but perhaps you disagree), I just go out looking to have sex. And THEN if she's worthy, it can progress to something more.

It seems that you want to have that emotional connection first, and THEN have it progress to sex. I think it's agreed on this site that this is the less efficient route to take, but I suppose that's a discussion for a different thread!

 

[Fergus]

Some ideas

Something happened today that shined some light on why I have done so poorly with women.

I’m in my social dance class dancing with a girl who is nice but basically stone-faced. I talk to her a little but she’s just not into it. When we switch partners I look at her, and she’s laughing and joking with the new guy. WTF? I thought she may have been sick or tired. And I was right, she was sick and tired of me.

So I look down the line of girls I danced with and each girl seems to be having more fun with the guy she is with now then she had with me, including the one girl in the class who thought I may have had a chance with.

I’ve casually noticed it before, but girls really do seem to react better to other guys then they do to me. I don’t know if it’s due to the way I act or what I saw, how I say it or everything combined. All I know is that there is something wrong about how I interact with women.

Somehow I didn’t acquire the skills that most guys pick up. So here I am trying to attract and date women when I have the skill level of a 12 year old.

That would help explain why there is such a small number of girls that I meet each year that I think I have a connection with, and then each girl proceeds to reject me. I think what was really happening was that those girls had really warm and open personalities and they made up for what I was lacking. Of course they reject me, because I mistook their openness as interest. There never was a connection, it was just her being outgoing, which she is with every guy. Then when I meet a girl whose not as warm but basically nice to everybody and they become somewhat cold toward me.

Figuring this out took a big hit to my self-esteem, then I got a little relief from knowing that I am doing something wrong. And now I’m down again because I don’t know if I have any hope at all.

One thing I've found helpful is Toastmasters. Learning to speak in front of other people is a great life skill, plus you get feedback on your presentations and you learn to tell when you're being funny and interesting or just lame and boring, and you get a sense for that when talking to people one-one-one too.

Improv or acting classes are good too. I've done all of these things and now I'm going to perform stand-up.

If your dance class is your only interaction with women, find something else that improves that. Do you work with any women?