so all MIDDLE CLASS and BLUE COLLARS are AFCs?

[Delta]

hmmm....

so according to all the self actualization, self improvement... stuff... they exhort personal growth and yadda yadda yadda and that our goal is to become giants among men to be worthy of acceptable women.

but this is what i mean by a certain kind of rareified perspective, an insulated, sheltered, idealistic perspective.

WHAT ABOUT EVERYONE IN THE MIDDLE CLASS AND BLUE COLLAR WORKERS?

they certainly have not reached the pinnacle of male achievement. they are not giants.

they're just regular joes... folks.

so have all these guys settled? for chicks that they would rather have not married?

all AFCs?

are they fing chicks that are unacceptable to them but they just couldn't do any better?

is this why viagra is such a big money maker?
--------------------------------------------------

the reality is that most people are AVERAGE.

that's why they call them AVERAGE.

so are all average people doomed to be alone or in unhappy unions?

is great sex and fulfillnig relationships reserved only for the top of the human bell curve?

delta

 

[Delta]

other implications of the self help mantra is:

- EVERYONE WHO'S MIDDLE CLASS JUST DIDN'T TRY HARD ENOUGH.

- EVERYONE WHO'S A BLUE COLLAR WORKER JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE GUTS TO REACH FOR THE BRASS RING.

- THE MAJORITY OF ALL SOCIETIES EVERYWHERE ARE PVSSIES. LOWLY AFCS WHO ARE FAILURES IN THEIR AVERAGENESS (or as we would probably call it on this website 'MEDIOCRITY').

delta

 

[diplomatic_lie]

Blue worker and middle class doesn't necessarily mean you failed. Hell, I know a blue collar worker (former trucker) who now owns the nation's largest trucking company.

Different people have different goals. Bill Gates goal was to become the world's richest man. A poor writer's goal might just be to write novels. Leonardo di Caprio's dream was probably to be the world's biggest faggot.

Self-improvement has nothing to do with money. Far from it, it simply means you've achieved the goals you set out for yourself.


So if you're a blue collar worker and happy with your life, then you've fulfilled your goals. On the other hand, if you're always unhappy and complaining, then theres something wrong.

 

[squirrels]

Self-improvement is masturbation.

 

[Delta]

hey dl,

that's probably what i would say. but if you read some of the posts regarding self improvement, there seems hardly room for such modest goals.

especially if all the hbs are after the biggest and the best and the richest.

that means that if you have modest goals, you're not putting it all on the line and you're not playing at the highest level.

(btw, the blue collar guy who owns his own trucking company is now probably well safely beyond the realm of blue collar)

again, i'm not contesting the value of self improvement or trying your best but in the context of getting women, it seems like the bar is raised so high that if you're content, that still may not be good enough.

delta

 

[baracus]

Good question! At first I thought you were just an internet troll. But you're starting to grow on me.

 

[Arioch]

The issue of class is complex. First, why would all middle class or blue collars be failures? Who says they settled? What makes them qualitative worse than a rich person, if they are just as happy? Happiness doesn't come from money (agreed, money does help, but it's not everything). Being happy, having true life fulfillment is more than having money. And despite what the American rich people try to tell you, people rarely become rich through hard work. Most rich people in the world were born rich. And many other rich people became that way due to very lucky circumstance. Bill Gates did not become rich by writing software. He became rich by scamming other rich people out of a business opportunity. This is opposed to, say, those people who become rich by being funny, or by being good actors. But even those who become rich through talent are quite lucky.

Basically, you're equating money to happiness. **** that. I am perfectly happy not being rich, mostly because if you're rich either you or your ancestors were at one point huge *******s to someone, and also because as far as the world is concerned, just living in America and being able to post this on the Internet makes me one of the richest people alive right now. I might consider becoming rich more if I knew I could do it easily without being an *******.

You also claim hot babes only go for rich guys. Well, they might still look hot, but a girl who only goes for guys that throw money around goes down about two or three points in my book. And besides, why would that guy want a girl like that, a girl who loves him for his ability to spend ****-tons of money on her? As soon as there's trouble, or another rich guy comes along, she'll leave if the only quality he has that she likes is money. A man who attracts women simply by being rich is not a man, just a purse. This is why rich people generally marry other rich people.

Accept the things you cannot change. Social class, despite what my "great" country says about it, is not something a person can change easily. It usually happens by accident. Have the balls to change the things you can change. Have a job you enjoy, not just one that pays well. Buy a car because it's stylish and gets good gas milage, not because it's a ****ing status symbol. Get plenty of exercise and eat right because it will make you feel good, not because society demands you to be muscular and not fat. And date women because you like them, their looks as well as their personality, not because everyone else says they're hot.

 

[00Kevin]

There are more blue collar workers who are REAL MEN then most chumps working in offices.

In fact most guys who are well off didn't work for it. They are born into it.

There are many upper class men who would cry like little girls if they had to live a day in the shoes of some blue collar guy.

As for getting women, it doesn't matter. Most of the guys in my band don't even have a high school education. But, damn.. the p-ussy they get is just fantasic.

The more a man struggles in life the stronger he becomes on the inside.

 

[DeathDealer]

So it has to do with money? Bzzzzt dont' think so.

 

[McKindley]

I don't think you understand what AFC MEANS.

An AFC is an Average Frustrated Chump. In the scope of this website that applies to guys that are clueless in the realm of getting women interested in them, realizing that interest, and taking the proper steps to make some sort of romantic relationship out of it.

There are plenty of Middle-Class, Blue Collar guys that get plenty of women. Just because you aren't a CEO doesn't mean you are an AFC.

EVERYONE WHO'S A BLUE COLLAR WORKER JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE GUTS TO REACH FOR THE BRASS RING

That's simply not true: there are plenty of guys who are still in the process of achieving thier goals, and guys who had the guts, went for it, and didn't make it.

EVERYONE WHO'S MIDDLE CLASS JUST DIDN'T TRY HARD ENOUGH

There are people who have tried hard enough, but didn't make it. It just didn't happen for them.

But really the problem is you are trying to augment the scope of AFC to mean ANY person who hasn't achieved professional goals.

All an AFC is is a guy who can't get women. Its as simple as that. There are Blue Collar DJ's and White Collar AFCs.

 

[So pimp its scary]

You guys gotta understand that different people have different goals...

Bill Gates would have considered himself a failure if he became one of the low-level drones in a computer company, but he is a success because he made his company as large as it is.

For some people, living the life is to have the blue-collar job, the average car and home, and to live comfortably.

It really is all relative... after all, success is more of a state of mind than anything else.

 

[Delta]

actually,

i agree very wholeheartedly with what you guys are saying! it may in fact prove to be incorrect but i hold the same kinds of thoughts and am on your side on this.

i have always DESPISED status symbols and have always shrugged at and given the finger to notions of social class.

but if you distill most of the attitudes and philosophies spouted here in context with getting chicks, you get the impression that such views are DJ SUICIDE....

--------------------------------------------------

consider what WE believe about this subject then and consider the apparent emphases in pook's 15 lessons. read it again and get the feel for what it's trying to tell us.

i don't consider being poor or middle class or blue collar to be directly associated with afcness.

but then consider all the posts around here that place such emphasis on what you drive and how you dress, status symbols and social status in general and 'PUTTING IT ALL ON THE LINE' all the time and that between two good guys, the woman will choose the richer mentality that's spouted around here....

THIS is the problems that i'm having with all this 'self help mantra' being thrown in with SEDUCTION stuff.

just look at the majority of the posts here. they pretty implicitly (many times EXPLICITLY) equate CONFIDENCE with success in "OTHER AREAS OF YOUR LIFE" and that people who don't succeed aren't true djs.

--------------------------------------------------

there's a LOT of simplification about life in this forum and it seems that the more 'health and wealth'ers get mixed with the crowd that wants to get laid, the more mucked up less critical people are likely to get.

delta

 

[Donald Kaufman]

they pretty implicitly (many times EXPLICITLY) equate CONFIDENCE with success in "OTHER AREAS OF YOUR LIFE" and that people who don't succeed aren't true djs

Implicitly you have stated that success in other areas of your life is about material wealth. It is not. Some people do believe that when they say success. Many do not but you seem to automatically assume they do.

If you improve your life and gain confidence you will have more opportunities. You can choose the ones that lead to the possibility of more money. I, so far, have always chosen the ones that I will enjoy. As I get older I realize it might be time to start thinking about ones that lead to more security. I have choices.

Self improvement is about getting to choose. Being a DJ is about getting to choose. AFCs get whatever luck, or fate drops on them; usually, not much.

 

[Delta]

deny it if you will,

but indeed, most of the time when 'other kinds of succes in your life' is mentioned here (as well as how the term 'success' is used and understood in general society in the west), it DOES refer to material, class associated achievement.

if the term 'success' is used on this board without any qualifiers (success with a hb), the context almost always indicates material wealth.

i don't think that i am misjudging intended message when i 'assume' this interpretation.
------------------------------------------------------

ESPECIALLY:

when we consider that on this board, we discuss a great deal about what WOMEN VALUE:

as has been pounded into our heads countless times here, women value:

1. MATERIAL WEALTH
2. MEANS
3. SOCIAL STATUS
4. MONEY
5. BLING BLING
6. MAZOOLA
7. ch-ching

among other things of course but yes, most of the time when we talk about sucess here, we're talking about material wealth and social status.

--------------------------------------------------

and as i said, i myself have absolutely despised and ABHORRED status symbols but that may have been my great, singular downfall.

women value this!

just as big tits and a nice ass that tastes like vanilla ice cream is prized by men.

right or wrong, this IS the way of the world.

so my question still stands, in this world, how do men with less than prime assets do with women?

left overs?

the equivalent female question would be: in a world obsessed with physical beauty, how do we do with men with our spare tires and couple extra bills?

delta

 

[Delta]

hmmmm...

i'll think about putting together a graph or something representing the correlation between male wealth and female beauty....

[descends into geek dungeon cackling hysterically]

delta

 

[Yotsuya-san]

In today's world, success is based on a perverted version of Darwinism. Instead of the most qualified person getting the reward, it's often the person who knows how to ingratiate, bootlick, suck-up, smoothtalk, upsell, or brownnose. So yeah, a lot of rich people get rich by screwing others or by ingratiating themselves with the "haves". But in a true test of survival where actions speak louder than words, Darwin would declare them destined for extinction.

 

[TheInfamousCBear]

Originally posted by Yotsuya-san
In today's world, success is based on a perverted version of Darwinism. Instead of the most qualified person getting the reward, it's often the person who knows how to ingratiate, bootlick, suck-up, smoothtalk, upsell, or brownnose. So yeah, a lot of rich people get rich by screwing others or by ingratiating themselves with the "haves". But in a true test of survival where actions speak louder than words, Darwin would declare them destined for extinction.

Look man...You gotta do what you gotta do...And if that means being a snake, if you want that money, youre gonna do it and you will survive...We arnt in the cameman times anymore...

 

[DJHoolahoop]

That's a hard thing to say that rich people are born into it. I say this because my brother knows of someone who came from russia to be a Doctor and the guy was dirt poor.

He was living in a bachelor pad eating mac 'n cheese almost every night for 3 years trying to get through school. Finally he did and he became very successful, even becoming a millionaire.

So yes the greater majority just are born into being rich, but there are ones out there who scam people out of money and the decent people who actually work hard and build up wealth.

 

[MrCode]

OK, I am ashamed to be a fellow "computer geek" with this Delta guy, because all he is about is whining, complaining and posting stupid posts that basically amount to mental masturbation.

I'm not usually one to attack posters, but seriously man, get up off your ass and try to do something about your "desperation for p*ssy" instead of trying to bring the rest of us down with your stupid negative posts.

Everything wrong with your life is your own responsibility, and it is up to you to do something about it.

 

[So pimp its scary]

But There are also people that are middle class that live in a silent desperation... knowing that they should be getting more, but not knowing how to accomplish it.