Slippery Road to Redemption

[jafyk]

Slippery Road to Redemption
By the time you get to the end of this story you might be asking yourself this question, “So, what does he want from us?” In truth I am not sure if I can even tell you what I want. I think it’s safe to say that 1) I want to get things off my chest 2) Try to capture what some others in here might be feeling 3) Are some of us doomed to be stuck on this long treacherous road to Don Juanism as opposed to reaching it and reaping its rewards? 4) If this is true why keep trying? Or does it take some of us much longer to arrive despite what we know (5) How has one who has seen the light let it guide him home, when he stands in the way?

I would not be too far from the truth to say that the road to Don Juanism leads to a kingdom with several metaphorical thrones. For some their throne is to get laid as often as possible, for others to be a better man in a general sense…no that would be wrong thinking wouldn’t it? Because the assumption is that when you reach the kingdom of Don Juan you are a better man. Yet being a better man doesn’t mean being a perfectly successful ruler presiding over all these thrones. For me at this point in my life, the throne that I would like to sit on is the one of long term stability with women. Somewhere on this slippery road to redemption I am torn as to how much progress I am making. I know I’ve seen the light and it has guided me thus far. Still it doesn’t change the fact that when I slip I feel like maybe I am an AFC in denial. How can I be with how much I know and the progress I have made?

I am 29 yrs. old going on 30 immigrant who currently has a bachelor’s degree, and working on a 2nd one; part-time employment at school; interests he is passionate about and enjoys; went from being a virgin at 24 to currently having been with 21 women (with 2 1/2 long term relationships somewhere in between), generally I’m likeable and find it easy to talk to people, I don’t find it hard to makes friends. In comparison to some people I’ve not accomplished much and with other I have accomplished much. Yet in my relationships with women I don’t feel like much success. As far as the throne I would like to command in DJ kingdom it would be one where I could have a stable successful long term relationship with women, one that could potentially lead to marriage. Sex is great, but it is usually a scenario where it’s a girl who may be available for sex but in other aspects she’s not what I want in a long term partner. Other times I end up with great girls who don’t want to have sex but friends (which is what the rest of this story is about) and from the much I know from being on here. If a girl isn’t interested you sexually for whatever excuse she might give, you might as well kiss the possibility of a future relationship good bye, not so?
The issue that brought me back here this time pouring out my heart

As I sat across from her from her at the Chinese restaurant she listed the flaws she saw in herself (mostly her looks). On the other hand all I could think of was how none of those flaws mattered to me and I was lost in how she made me feel. Though she had her insecurities yet most moments with her were happy ones, even when I had been upset with her just hearing from/seeing her melted my heart. Perhaps this is where you start saying, “This guy isn’t ready for battle” Well, maybe you are right. Well, it’s not like earlier day I didn’t cancel this current date because I was upset. She had informed me she wouldn’t be my date for a wedding because she wants to spend the weekend her BF gets off with him. The problem here is that the wedding is still one month away, I had told her about it about two weeks before today. We had talked about her getting a dress and what not. Perhaps I had overreacted by getting angry instead of playing it cool like a DJ right? Well, two weeks earlier she had confessed to me how she had cheated on her BF with a guy in NJ whom she was into. In the end he got what he got the only thing he wanted from her and gave her a rushed goodbye. So, here she’s back with regrets and I had made the mistake of inquiring what was ailing her and she didn’t care enough for my feelings to spare me that dreaded detail. Hey, it’s my fault after all I inquired, right? Then as much as it hurt (and I did admit it to her) I said to myself after all she and I were friends (while I wanted more) so, that means she could do what she darn pleased in her free time, right?

So, back to me and her at the Chinese restaurant… as I sat across from her thinking of all the reasons why I had grown fond of her. Was it those large slanted eyes that I got lost in? Maybe it was the countless times we had met up for drinks, she would always come to pick me up; perhaps it was waking up to the early morning texts greeting me in Japanese attached to it the nickname she had given me, or her wishing me good luck on my upcoming portfolio review, while giving me good critiques; Or the day I was stuck at school doing school work and she brought me food, maybe the sound of her laughter etc. Heck it was all those things, still as I sat there lost in face and my head I could feel myself coming down with a severe case of one-it is. I know this because I had just cancelled dinner when she texted me to confirm and she responded with a text expressing her sadness and how she had cancelled lunch just so we could have dinner. So, I quickly found out that like time past, I wasn’t really cut out to be a jerk (at least not on purpose). I made time again and here we were again, maybe for the last time (I will explain later). When she had given me the NJ news I told her how I felt and that I felt hurt. I had told her I didn’t want to see because it’s just hard to handle being friends with someone I was so into who didn’t feel the same way. She had told me how much I meant to her and how glad she was that I’m in her life. So, I had a rethink. After all, my friend whom I’d consider a DJ had told me to maintain the friendship after I had told him I was coming down with oneities and felt I shouldn’t see her anymore. He had told me it’s not always about getting sex with every girl. Unlike other girls I’ve dated who might have had BF this girl wasn’t complaining about her BF, she rarely brings him up, she might have shown me a picture of them on her phone but I can’t say I’ve seen any pictures of them together on Facebook. As much as she claimed to prefer to have guy friends and had mentioned dates. I had never seen any pictures of her and many guys on Facebook anyway. This is what made me doubt her story of having a BF. I felt she was a lonely girl trying to cover up and by saying she has a BF (I hoped eventually she’d come around). Yet, whenever I made the mistake of telling her how I felt, she would counteract by saying, “we are friends and I have a BF”. I couldn’t really understand my oneitis because I am on dating sites (I had met a girl and we are planning a date), there’s another girl in class whom we have lunch planned out for next Tuesday, as well as another girl I had met at school yesterday who has already called me. I guess the huge problem with spinning plates is building up a decent rotation of them. Yet when they are not showing much commitment I can see how I could’ve easily slipped into my oneitis who as showing me some sort of constant contact.

Unlike most girls I had dealt with the problem I really had with this one is that her major crime is just that she claims she doesn’t feel the same way. Yet the fact that she initiates contact almost every day got me unsure of how she feels. She didn’t initiate Kino and I didn’t know if this had anything to do with her Asian culture. So, as I sat down with her after taking her back to her car and talking to her I initiate some Kino and sporadically she would tell me she didn’t like me touching her. All I could think of was how she keeps saying we would never kiss. I don’t know if this was some kind of sh!t test. Prior to her leaving she asked me twice if I had anything else to say so she could leave so I reached over, hugged her and kissed her on the cheek yet she didn’t seem offended. After she left, she texted me and told me she had made it back safely. Then I had the exchange with her about how hard it is to just be her friend and she pretty much says the same things she’s said in the past on the issue. So, I asked her that if she was really into her BF why then did the NJ incident occur. She said I was judging her and making it seem like it’s her fault that I felt how I felt. She said it felt like I was initiating a friendship breakup. She maintained that she didn’t want this to stop us from being friends. She tells me good night that she needs time alone and that I should stop judging her. So, maybe this is it. As a friend she’s what I could’ve asked for. My dilemma is that most times my female friends possess the characteristics I seek in my LTR person; yet trying to get out of the friend zone is a painful struggle of losing it all. Sometimes as my DJ friend said it’s just nice to be out with a girl even if it’s for something casual but sometimes the more times you spend with a girl the more they grow on you. It’s not like she didn’t tell me about her BF or tell me we were just friends. A lot of times we think we can make it work and only find out we are lying to ourselves.

This is my slippery path on the road to redemption. Like I said I’m not sure what I’m asking but what I mentioned at the beginning of this story. I know being successful as a man is measured on so many levels but it’s got me wondering what a man’s success means if he can’t get and keep a woman of his choice without having to buy her.

 

[jophil28]

“we are friends and I have a BF”.

I bet that the statement above from a woman means the same in Chinese as it does in English.

 

[romangod]

Well, that was an interesting read. You sound like a nice guy but as the saying goes, nice guys finish last. Especially, with women.

Like most AFC stories here, it's not really about the woman. They are the catalyst but not the root of the problem. The problem is a lack of control of your emotions and the ego's battle with the reality of the situation.

Whether she really has a boyfriend or not doesn't matter. The fact that she told you she has one should be enough for you to back off and see the reality of the situation. You're her friend and will never be anything more. Even if in a moment of emotional need she decided to give you a try the situation will only get worse. She'll know she has all the power and that'll make you weak in her eyes.

You can't be blamed for your feelings. It's happened to many here and it has happened to me when I was your age. It is time to put things in perspective so this doesn't happen again.


It boils down to confidence and self esteem. When a woman can send you into a spin before you've even had a chance to be intimate with her, it is a sign that your ego and self are out of whack. Your ego's need to have her outweighs your self's need to see the reality of the situation and protect your self esteem.

We talk about being the prize. With many, it's just talk. Until you firmly believe it you'll be at the mercy of your ego needs and a victim to its games on your mind.

I'm rambling but I hope it gives you food for thought.


Cheers!

 

[azanon]

What do you have against paragraphs?

 

[Atom Smasher]

Slippery Road to Redemption
By the time you get to the end of this story you might be asking yourself this question, “So, what does he want from us?”

Wrong. I'm asking myself, "What makes him think anyone will get to the end of his story?"

You've been around here long enough to know that your formatting forces us to WORK and to work hard, to read it.

Paragraphs and spaces, please. I will also need a Kindle version and a pdf to download.

 

[jafyk]

What do you have against paragraphs?

Lol, nothing man. I typed this in word with the paragraphs and pasted it. Apparently SS forum didn't take the format and I waas too tired to bother.

 

[jafyk]

Well, that was an interesting read. You sound like a nice guy but as the saying goes, nice guys finish last. Especially, with women.

Like most AFC stories here, it's not really about the woman. They are the catalyst but not the root of the problem. The problem is a lack of control of your emotions and the ego's battle with the reality of the situation.

Whether she really has a boyfriend or not doesn't matter. The fact that she told you she has one should be enough for you to back off and see the reality of the situation. You're her friend and will never be anything more. Even if in a moment of emotional need she decided to give you a try the situation will only get worse. She'll know she has all the power and that'll make you weak in her eyes.

You can't be blamed for your feelings. It's happened to many here and it has happened to me when I was your age. It is time to put things in perspective so this doesn't happen again.


It boils down to confidence and self esteem. When a woman can send you into a spin before you've even had a chance to be intimate with her, it is a sign that your ego and self are out of whack. Your ego's need to have her outweighs your self's need to see the reality of the situation and protect your self esteem.

We talk about being the prize. With many, it's just talk. Until you firmly believe it you'll be at the mercy of your ego needs and a victim to its games on your mind.

I'm rambling but I hope it gives you food for thought.


Cheers!

I would agree with you. I'm just mad at myself that with the much I know and with what seems like progress on my part. Still I feel like I haven't moved much. I always get to these cross roads where I make a call and then I start to wonder if it's my ego in the way or what not? A part of me wants to be a jerk (an a$$hl) but naturally that's me. My fear is also that if I do cross that line I won't be able to come back. I do appreciate your insight sorry about the paragraph issue.

 

[jophil28]

It boils down to confidence and self esteem. When a woman can send you into a spin before you've even had a chance to be intimate with her, it is a sign that your ego and self are out of whack. Your ego's need to have her outweighs your self's need to see the reality of the situation and protect your self esteem.

Indeed.

JAFYK, the reality of the situation is that she has no desire or intention of becoming romanticaly or sexually involved with you. She has told you so in several ways.
Your choices are simply to accept this situation (it happens to us all ), or ignore it and continue to plan your next tactic in a futile campaign to change her mind.
That way lies heatache and failure for you, and a 10 page thread for the Forum.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Azanon,
This guy can write as very few here do,he would be a highly qualified man in some Literary Field....His words flow like prose...Words like yours can be hurtful to someone who seems quite probably an Englishman...Paragraphs?....For Chis'sake,James Joyce wrote his Epic novel Ullysses,without even separating words.... So keep it up Jafyk,I like the Cut of your Jib.

 

[Rubirosa]

Well, that was an interesting read. You sound like a nice guy but as the saying goes, nice guys finish last. Especially, with women.

Like most AFC stories here, it's not really about the woman. They are the catalyst but not the root of the problem. The problem is a lack of control of your emotions and the ego's battle with the reality of the situation.

Whether she really has a boyfriend or not doesn't matter. The fact that she told you she has one should be enough for you to back off and see the reality of the situation. You're her friend and will never be anything more. Even if in a moment of emotional need she decided to give you a try the situation will only get worse. She'll know she has all the power and that'll make you weak in her eyes.

You can't be blamed for your feelings. It's happened to many here and it has happened to me when I was your age. It is time to put things in perspective so this doesn't happen again.


It boils down to confidence and self esteem. When a woman can send you into a spin before you've even had a chance to be intimate with her, it is a sign that your ego and self are out of whack. Your ego's need to have her outweighs your self's need to see the reality of the situation and protect your self esteem.

We talk about being the prize. With many, it's just talk. Until you firmly believe it you'll be at the mercy of your ego needs and a victim to its games on your mind.

I'm rambling but I hope it gives you food for thought.


Cheers!

This is a perfect post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jafyk]

Indeed.

JAFYK, the reality of the situation is that she has no desire or intention of becoming romanticaly or sexually involved with you. She has told you so in several ways.
Your choices are simply to accept this situation (it happens to us all ), or ignore it and continue to plan your next tactic in a futile campaign to change her mind.
That way lies heatache and failure for you, and 10 page thread for the Forum.

Ok, Jophil I do see your point and I appreciate your insight. I guess my fault in this is not being able to discern what is good advice and bad advice on here at times. Maybe it's not even necessarily bad or good advice but one that applies in certain situations. So, what am I rambling about? On the main sosuave site I've come across articles that say that by doing certain things you can turn a friend into a lover; such as through kino, being a fun person to be around etc. For a long time (besides the lack of physical intimate stuff) this girl has shown high interest levels through her actions. So, I figured perhaps it's only a matter of time before she comes around. Ok, I know this is where you older and wiser guys laugh and sigh, "young fool", lol.
Sure laugh all you want but this is the frustration I encounter. Sex with so so girls or friendship with quality girls when I want both. Sometimes, I FEEL like why even bother?

 

[jafyk]

Dear Azanon,
This guy can write as very few here do,he would be a highly qualified man in some Literary Field....His words flow like prose...Words like yours can be hurtful to someone who seems quite probably an Englishman...Paragraphs?....For Chis'sake,James Joyce wrote his Epic novel Ullysses,without even separating words.... So keep it up Jafyk,I like the Cut of your Jib.

Scaramouche, I'm very flattered. Thank you. The guys are right putting things in paragraph makes for easy legibility. Anyway, I haven't posted here in a while because I've been busy with life school, work, my interests and the half-hearted pursuit of women, lol. I just figured if I was gonna come here and bore you guys with my lengthy story. I might as well do it with a little writing style. I think it makes for a better read. I am not an Englishman, however I am an African from a country that was once colonized by England. I currently reside in U.S. for the past 11 years.

 

[Slickster]

It boils down to confidence and self esteem. When a woman can send you into a spin before you've even had a chance to be intimate with her, it is a sign that your ego and self are out of whack. Your ego's need to have her outweighs your self's need to see the reality of the situation and protect your self esteem.

One of the best things I've read on these forums in a long time.

 

[jafyk]

Ok, Jophil I was reading a post by someone in this SS forum and I came about a friendzone link this person posted. I am just posting this here to show you the classic example of how people say that the friendzone can be escaped bla bla. The article itself does read well and seems to make sense to me. I'd like you guys take on it http://www.thefriendzone.co/escapethefriendzone.html . People often say disappear don't contact her etc. Most times than not I've realized that when I'm seeing a girl and resort to this it seems that the relationship dies because it seems a lot of times with the girls you need to initiate contact and try to get things to happen. I have lots of phone #s in my phone and half the girls are hot but they are just statistics.

 

[Slickster]

How has one who has seen the light let it guide him home, when he stands in the way?

You have seen the light. You know what you have to do. Your doubts are created within. They are not real. Believing in yourself is easy once you actually do it. Once you do, you will be unstoppable. Everything will naturally fall into place. Take the next step. Believe. It is that easy.

 

[jophil28]

Ok, Jophil I was reading a post by someone in this SS forum and I came about a friendzone link this person posted. I am just posting this here to show you the classic example of how people say that the friendzone can be escaped bla bla. The article itself does read well and seems to make sense to me. I'd like you guys take on it http://www.thefriendzone.co/escapethefriendzone.html . People often say disappear don't contact her etc. Most times than not I've realized that when I'm seeing a girl and resort to this it seems that the relationship dies because it seems a lot of times with the girls you need to initiate contact and try to get things to happen. I have lots of phone #s in my phone and half the girls are hot but they are just statistics.

JAFYK,that article says little that is new. There are many similar pieces written with the theme of "How to escape the FZ"....almost as common as "How to cure cancer with vitamins." or "How I became rich with only the power of my mind and my last $49." ...

Look, anything is possible down here on planet crazy, but your chances of turning this women into a lusty girlfriend are slim. You have made too many fundamental mistakes.
You see, she has a whole movie running in her head of you acting like a sweet nice guy. How are you going to erase all that?

Secondly, following the advice of an internet "article" about escaping the FZ ,written by an unknown author, is no guarantee of success either.

There are several problems with the piece that you referred to .
Just 'disappearing on her' will trigger anxiety in her for sure, but so would a 7 day unexpected absence of her cat.

You seem to be determined to try to 'get her' however so I would suggest that you ignore her completely (rude, yes I know) and start spending as much time and energy with other women - any women.

Go - get started.

 

[jafyk]

All this tells me is that you are not a believer then, lol. I like the lost cat analogy it got me laughing.
I was just thinking about all this friendzone business and i thought to myself that if it was a movie and a woman out you in the friendzone you'd just have to shoot her since she has become a zombie with no cure and every past memory that was shared or effort that was put into her was totally worthless.

 

[st_99]

I have a good friend who happens to be a girl. We hang out, have fun, do things, etc.. She likes me and would date me in a heartbeat, probably marry me. The absolute fact is I would NEVER in a million years find her sexually attractive and have absolutely ZERO interest in her romantically. Those are the facts and I guarantee you there is NOTHING she could do to change that.

So my point is this, like jophil28 said, sure anything is possible but its HIGHLY unlikely you will get anywhere with this girl.

 

[Kailex]

File this under "Memoirs of an Orbiter" because that's exactly what this read as.

Look, sorry to break it to you AGAIN, but if you REALLY like this girl, then you owe it to yourself to either make a move now and race the rejection now or realize you absolutely have no chance and move on with your life.

Choose wisely, but choose and stop drifting in the seas of indecision and uncertainty.

Like others said, it doesn't matter if she has a BF or what her Facebook contains or anything else... if she hasn't expressed romantic interest in you by now, it's better to find someone who does and will. This reads like one huge heart break waiting to happen.

 

[jafyk]

File this under "Memoirs of an Orbiter" because that's exactly what this read as.

Look, sorry to break it to you AGAIN, but if you REALLY like this girl, then you owe it to yourself to either make a move now and race the rejection now or realize you absolutely have no chance and move on with your life.

Choose wisely, but choose and stop drifting in the seas of indecision and uncertainty.

Like others said, it doesn't matter if she has a BF or what her Facebook contains or anything else... if she hasn't expressed romantic interest in you by now, it's better to find someone who does and will. This reads like one huge heart break waiting to happen.

Kailex what move is there to make? Pretty much everyone here says it's a lost cause and so the heart break is already in there. However, I don't think I will ever get devastated by another woman. I think the worst that could ever happen to me has already happened. This was when I didn't know what I know now. Now I mostly live in the moment because a lot of times even when I'm dealing with a girl I pretty much have some idea how the story could end. So, of course that knowledge doesn't change the fact that in the moment it happens a part of me doesn't feel it but if I was 100% misguided to begin with then it would be a total shock.
Anyway, so while I see the point of view of these guys here. I am gonna experiment just because it's a learning experience.
Well, she contacted me this morning about 7am this morning. I didn't immediately respond and before I could respond she also sent me an IM on facebook which I ignored. I later responded to her text and she said she thought I was ignoring her. Well, I don't wanna bore you guys but if anyone cares to know the rest of the story I can share.
I think it's interesting how everyone's advice here choses to focus on her rather than on the questions I had asked in the beginning. I was mostly using her story as an illustration.