skinny scrawny dude, where to start.

[JH6]

Ok,

So I made move number one. I got a membership to the gym, and got a motivated buddy to join along with me.

He's trying to drop some pounds, i'm trying to gain some muscle. I'm a skinny F, and i'm ready to bulk up.

I'm about 6 foot 4, and i weigh 171 pounds. I'm 23 years old.

I would say that my target weight is a healthy 200 pounds.

Whats a good routine to start with?

How many days a week? How long?

I work a 9-5 job so I have free time in the evenings, and i'm totally motivated to do it.

I am a health food junkie, i rarely eat burgers or anything greasy. I don't drink milk or eat dairy, i take calicium pills.

Here's my diet today, its pretty typical of what i eat.

Breakfast, one everything bagel no butter, two hardboiled eggs. One glass of orange juice.

Lunch, two turkey sandwich, with lettuce and mustard. One raemon noodle soup (salt i know). One apple.

After lunch, one banana, one can of tuna with some mayo (half a spoonful).

After lunch, on my break at work i usually take a 30 minute walk around downtown.

Dinner. Baked potato with no butter, two lemon pepper chicken breasts, some green beans.

After dinner, bowl of chex cereal with rice milk.

I drink about ten glasses of water, and drink a ton of green tea. I really don't drink anything else besides that and orange juice.

I take three suppliments daily. I take a multivitamin twice a day, I take 2000mg of vitamin C, I take a mixture pill of calcium/zinc and something else.

I have been on a diet like this for almost a year now, and I don't put on any weight.

Thanks guys.

 

[DoubleJuan]

zinc/calcium pill i a strange pill combination. what about magnesium? what about omega3? not that this is absolutely necessary but if you are interested in health anyway then take it.

a good routines focuses on the compound exercises - deadlifts, squats, benchpress/dips, chinups, bentoverrows, military press.

up your ****ing protein and calorie intake!!what kind of attitude is this?? you want to gain weight but you are afraid of a bit salt and a bit majo?? UP THE ****ING CALORIES

 

[uzio]

a) Your diet is terrible.

1. What is your caloric intake?
2. Where are good fats? (mayo? geeez) Actually - where are fats!?
3. You are eating carbs in the evening
4. What is your caloric intake?
5. What is wrong with salt?

b) if 30 minute walk is your only excecise then no wonder you can't get any mass

c) as for the gym - you'll have to resort to others. I'm no expert here.

But frankly expect three 1hour workouts (mon, wed, fri).

---

As for the diet.

You weigh 171 lb - thus your base caloric requirement is 1850 kcal.

with 3 workouts it goes up by abour 40% - to 2590. Now add 500 for that healthy growth - that is 3100 kcal.

Typical bulking diet will have:

1g protein/lb = 171 grams/day (684 kcal since 1g of protein = 4 kcal)
2,8g of carbs/lb = 478 grams/day (1912 kcal since 1g of carbs = 4 kcal)
504 kcal from fats = 56 grams of fats.

171 g of protein
478 g of carbohydrates
56 g of fats

now compose 6 meals that contain that amount of macronutrients.

protein sources: eggs (egg whites if you are paranoid about fat from eggs), cottage cheese, chicken breasts, protein shakes and a few other.

carbs sources: oatmeal, wholegrain bread (be wary of those coloured with carmel - that is junk), brown pasta, rice, vegetables, fruit and hundreads of other.

fat sources: olive oil, rapeseed/canola oil, fish oil (essential omega-3 here), nuts, eggs , butter, fish

Overall - find a table witch shows how much of a given macronutrient is in a item you are intrested in. Make 6 meals that will not go above those numbers above.

Two meals that are most important:

Breakfast - make it reach, energy filled.
After workout - right after a workout eat protein and high GI carbs (glucose/dextrose is the best).

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by uzio
171 g of protein
478 g of carbohydrates
56 g of fats

Too many carbs, not nearly enough protein in my opinion. You're 171lbs, then get in 350g of protein every day minimum (and two gallons of water).

Don't try and be too scientific about this, bodybuilding isn't an exact science. It's not really a science at all..

 

[uzio]

350g of protein for 170 lb guy? What for?

Basicly you just made the guy's diet 50% protein...

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by uzio
350g of protein for 170 lb guy? What for?

Basicly you just made the guy's diet 50% protein...

Because "bodybuilders" who do the 1 gram per pound thing are notorious for never gaining muscleweight. I could gain more muscle while I'm doing a routine that is me trying NOT to gain muscle (I.E. olympic lifting, powerlifting) if I eat 350 grams a day than a bodybuilder who eats 170 grams a day.

Muscle is protein. Eat lots of protein, and use good fat and carbs to help the protein get to the muscle.

 

[suikeisuru]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
Too many carbs, not nearly enough protein in my opinion. You're 171lbs, then get in 350g of protein every day minimum (and two gallons of water).

Don't try and be too scientific about this, bodybuilding isn't an exact science. It's not really a science at all..

Agreed.

 

[CrizzleGA]

I would say you need atleast 300grams of protien at the very LEAST. Start EATING EATING EATING. When hitting the gym make sure you are working in many compound exercises into your exercise like someone already mentioned. Bench Press, Dips, Squarts, Deadlifts, Chinups/Pullups. Honestly though if you are 6'4" 200lbs you are still going to be pretty skinny but make reasonable goals like that and then you can keep going as you see fit. I myself am also about 6'4" 190lbs working to get to 200lbs thinkin about end goal 225lbs.

 

[DinoCassanova]

When hitting the gym make sure you are working in many compound exercises into your exercise like someone already mentioned. Bench Press, Dips, Squarts, Deadlifts, Chinups/Pullups

>>> Honestly, this is going to sound strange, but I personally had the best build of my life the year after I had gotten out of jail. Right now I'm actually trying to recreate that, so far so good, but it takes time (which I just had more of there ). I know everybody nowadays gets into fancy diets and counting everything they intake and what-not, and then hitting high priced gyms and doing lots of reps on fancy equipment, etc. In there my two dietary staples were whole wheat bread and eggs (usually scrambled but sometimes once-over) , w/occasional meat thrown in (which, when it was not "mystery" ) I would also eat. Also oatmeal, which I developed a taste there for eating "cold", like just a bowlful of oats basically, with some cool water poured into it. I still do that now actually. (We did not trust the milk in there, and I don't really like much milk anyway). Besides that, all we had were basic dumb-bells and some bar-bells. I rarely if ever hit the barbells. All I did to build a great looking physique was (ever-increasing numbers of) push-ups, and sit ups and some crunches. And then some light dumb-bell curling, nothing crazy. I started off with a regular 20 push-ups per set, but by the time I was leaving I was able to knock out 100 per set without stopping in about two , two and a half minutes. Sure I wasn't "huge", not a bodybuilder by any means, but I came in soft and went out 363 days later bulked up by about 15, 20 pounds, most of which was muscle. It was kind of spartan there, obviously, but guys in there were building great bodies. I saw some black dudes in there (really I was like one of the only white guys) who looked like they could have gotten into the ring with Tyson and given him a run for his money at the time. So I always recommend carbs for energy, protein for muscle building, cut down or do away all together with sweet treats (especially at night), drink diet soda or just juices, iced teas, and water, and just hit push-ups, sit-ups and curls, and you should notice at least a decent difference in awhile. If you're an overall skinny body type however and it's really hard for you to gain weight try to pack on some pounds / bulk with things like protein shakes for example. ~Dino~

 

[uzio]

Originally posted by MetalFortress
Because "bodybuilders" who do the 1 gram per pound thing are notorious for never gaining muscleweight. I could gain more muscle while I'm doing a routine that is me trying NOT to gain muscle (I.E. olympic lifting, powerlifting) if I eat 350 grams a day than a bodybuilder who eats 170 grams a day.

The myth of the protein lives on....

Intrestingly the bodybuilders I know do'nt go above 1-1,5 g/lb because it is simply a waste to eat any more.

How about this: eat all your calories from protein! You'll grow even faster! Geez

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by uzio
The myth of the protein lives on....

Intrestingly the bodybuilders I know do'nt go above 1-1,5 g/lb because it is simply a waste to eat any more.

How about this: eat all your calories from protein! You'll grow even faster! Geez

And I bet they gain a huge 2-3 lbs of muscle per year as well.

Look, this is getting tiring. When I first getting into this, I messed about with a lotta stuff, tried to eat 'clean', was brainwashed that the body can only assimilated 30g of protein per meal, never ate egg yolks or beef (ewwww, fat sources).. and realised I was getting nowhere.

I started eating 2lbs of beef every day, six whole eggs at a time, a monster pwo shake (75g protein to start with, woah that's nearly three mealsworth - but wait, didn't I read on bbing.com that your kidneys explode if you have more than 40g protein in a meal?) and a huge meal an hour after the shake, and I gained strength and size like never before.

But don't take my word for it, don't take suikeisuru's word for it either, just do whatever you think is best, and then try 2g of protein etc, and tell us that we were wrong.

 

[DoubleJuan]

but it's true that SOME part of it gets wasted......however the TOTAL bodily used protein is way higher than with low protein consume......or?

 

[Warboss Alex]

JH6:

I would recommend you do the following for muscle growth and simultaneous bodyfat drop.

- 2g of protein per lb bodyweight (excluding pwo shake on workout days), at least half of this from solid food.
- 2 gallons of water to process the protein; this is obligatory.
- Hefty pwo shake (50g protein for you, with 50-60g carbs)
- Hefty pwo meal (pro/carb, big portions)
- Seperate your food choices if necessary (if fat and carbs together make you fat), make meals protein-carbohydrate (e.g. meat and rice) or protein-fat (e.g veg omelette made from whole eggs).
- Don't count calories, fats, or carbs. If you want a rough estimate then you should be taking in 20-25 kcal per lb bodyweight but that's only an approximate.
- Eat as many carbs as will ensure you don't get hungry between meals, can work out at max. efficiency, get through your day without feeling weak or tired, etc. Some days you'll be more active (busy weekdays, i.e. when you go shopping with the girlfriend and have to lug a ton of new clothes home with you) than others (weekends when you sit on your arse in front of the footy), so if your body tells you it's hungry, feed it. You're not dieting here, listen to your needs.
- Use fats to increase calories if you're not gaining weight. Olive/flax/sunflower oil etc in your protein shakes is a good way of getting in extra kcal without having to force down morefood.
- Use a carb cutoff to control/help reduce bodyfat, 3-4 hours before bed but this can be made sooner or later as necessary.
- It might be a good idea to cut off large amounts of fat after the carb cutoff as well. A little olive oil on your salad won't hurt but don't boatload the eggs or peanut butter, maybe you can get away with it but if you're looking to drop bodyfat as well then best to be safe. (you can experiment later)
- Do low-intensity cardio 3 or 4 times a week in the morning on an empty stomach (maybe take a small protein shake beforehand), brisk walking or light jogging, 20-40 minutes a time (you'll have to find how much you need to do) - this is to burn off excesses from the food you eat, and to also hopefully reduce current bodyfat. Do this any day except leg day.
- Take EFAs (fish oil, flax oil, omega3 pills - you should be getting your omega6s from the rest of your food).
- Take a multivitamin. Shell out money for a decent one, don't be getting any cheap brands. As far as vits go, I always say get the best you can afford, you get what you pay for.
- The only other supplements you need buy (aside from EFAs and the multi) are whey protein, antioxidants (green tea extract is my recommendation) and possibly vitamin c (I personally don't think extra vit c is needed if you take your multi and eat enough fruit but that's just my opinion).

As for your workout split, a 2-day or 3-day split is really all you need. Include the 3 big lifts (squats, deadlifts, bench press - and their variations) and use a two- or three-exercise rotation to ensure you don't stagnate too quickly (i.e. do floor deadlifts for back one workout and barbell rows the next time). Include the other quality compounds (military press, close grip bench, sumo leg press etc) and don't mess about with cable flys or tricep kickbacks. Keep your rep ranges high for form and safety purposes; try 2 sets of 10-12 reps on most exercises (15-20 for calves, hold the lowest position of the negative for 15 seconds), for deadlifts I'd say one heavy straight set of 6-8 and for squats one set of 3-6 and then one widowmaker (20 reps at 75% of the weight of the first set, basically do this to failure, if you fail on 17 then you still got the job done). Try to progress in weight on every exercise every workout, even lifting 'only' an extra 2.5lbs means you're growing.

Here's some exercises:

Chest: flat db press, incline barbell press
Shoulders: seated db press, seated military press
Triceps: skullcrushers, close grip bench
Back (width): lat pulldown, rack chins
Back (mass): barbell rows, floor deadlift
Biceps: barbell curls, alternate db curls
Forearms: hammer curls, reverse preacher curls
Quads: squats (any variation, do free barbell squats first), leg press
Calves: any sort of calf raise is fine
Hamstrings: sumo leg press, leg curl
Abs: weighted crunches, weighted leg raises

Depending on whether you do 2 or 3 days a week, divide this into Chest/Shoulders/Triceps/Back (both exercises) and Biceps/Forearms/Quads/Hamstrings/Calves, if you do a 3day split then put Back with Biceps and Forearms for the third day. Keep heavier exercises like squats and deadlifts last, do the others first. Abs you can do whenever you like really.

The key is progression; build strength with increasing your lifts every time then eat your arse off to make that strength gain into a size gain, then repeat until you're Ronnie Coleman (okay, maybe not but you get the idea.)

DON'T THINK TOO MUCH. As long as you're gaining strength you're also growing; when you stop gaining strength then eat more and/or change the exercises you're doing.

Simple innit?

 

[uzio]

Warboss:

For a starting bodybuilder it is OK to gain - say - 10lb of lean mass/month (that is actually pretty fantastic - but I digress).

10lb/muscle = 4500 grams of muscle.

Only 20-30% of mass of muscle is protein (suprised? then how is it that most meats - which are muscles - contain about 25% protein?)

so 4500 grams = 1350 grams of protein.

to get 1350 grams of protein (eg 4500 grams of muscle) in a course of a month you need to eat... 45 grams of protein/day.

That is ofc 45 grams of protein above daily protein needs of the body - which is about 0,5g/lb (values vary from 0,3 to 0,7 - sedentary to very active).

if you're 200 lbs then to keep that you need to eat 140 grams/day (0,7*200) if you want to grow another 10 lbs - you need to eat (210*0,7+45 grams)/day = 192 grams/day - round that to 200g .

Anything above that will just get converted to glucose (58% efficency) and used for energy. Practically = wasted. If you can afford that - go ahead, I'm not going to stop ya (and unless you have problems with kidneys i wouldn't worry about damage - no study was made to determine if the damage can occur in healthy individuals)

Now - you just need to study the stuff.

now - 350g may be good for 300 lb guy or for someone on steroids, but not for a regular joe who wants to grow a few pounds.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Uzio, you seem far too caught up in the maths and science aspect of it all.

No offence, but people who dabble in the numbers (and daily 'needs' - who determines my daily protein needs? just like my daily calorific 'needs' are officially 2500 kcal, yeah right..) spend far too much time overanalysing this that and the other, when they could be just eating more, training harder or actually just getting on with growing.

Also, they hardly ever seem to pass the 180-190lb mark. There are exceptions of course but that's over the course of several years.

I'm talking about gaining serious muscle as quickly as possible (once that's over with, you can set about gaining some more). If you're an 'average joe' who wants the extra lb then sure, do whatever you want, chances are you'll gain that whatever the hell you do.

I can't argue the science with you (a. I don't want to, b. I'm not qualified to and c. it's pointless anyway) but please, when you've got three months to spare, try 2g protein per lb per day and see if there's a difference. Yeah, at the start you'll be going to the toilet five or six times a day because YES, the human body will reject the extra protein because it's not used to processing it, however give it a coupla weeks to adapt and it'll just be soaking all of it (and I don't mean into adipose) and your gains will skyrocket.

But until you actually try it and see, then I'm just another keyboard warrior/cyber-bodybuilder/whatever right?

 

[qweretyuiopas]

You guys must not like your liver because that 350 g protein for a 170 lb guy would beat the sh!t out of his liver. Go ahead listen to all these guys eventually they will have ****ed up livers too and all of you guys can hang together.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by qweretyuiopas
You guys must not like your liver because that 350 g protein for a 170 lb guy would beat the sh!t out of his liver. Go ahead listen to all these guys eventually they will have ****ed up livers too and all of you guys can hang together.

I'll have you know my liver is in perfect condition, I have regular checks; two gallons of water minimum per day takes care of that.

 

[qweretyuiopas]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
I'll have you know my liver is in perfect condition, I have regular checks; two gallons of water minimum per day takes care of that.

How old are you? How much do you weigh?

 

[Warboss Alex]

I don't give out personal info on the 'net, sorry laddie.

But I'm older and bigger than you.

 

[semag]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
But I'm bigger than you.

Doesn't that go without saying, I mean.. .these kiddos are actually arguing with fact