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Embers84

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VikingKing said:
Having a socialist education system is a terrible idea. You can easily go to school when you are poor, its called a pell grant, and also there are scholarships, especially if you are a minority.
VikingKing said:
If you still support 'bama you are a heavily indoctrinated sheep and part of the infection that needs to be removed.
You're an idiot and don't know anything about what's really going on in the world and with people's lives.

You already removed yourself from being productive in society by doing nothing with your life. Why haven't you gone to college to get a good paying job like responsible people do?

Looks like your right wingers are trying to take away grants. Read up.




House Republicans want to cut back grants for poor college students

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...to-cut-back-grants-for-poor-college-students/


House Republicans looking for ways to balance the budget want to roll back President Obama's expansion of a federal program allowing many of the country's poorest students attend college.

On Tuesday, the House GOP released a budget memo that would freeze the maximum amount students receive from the government to pay for college; the grants would be held at $5,775 per school year for the next 10 years.

The proposal to limit Pell grants, as the assistance is known, is a part of a broader set of budget priorities that seeks to cut government spending by trillions of dollars over the next decade. It mirrors previous Republican plans to dial back funding for Pell, but this time around the party controls both chambers and has the power to advance the proposal.

Nine million students benefited from the $33.7 billion Pell grant program in the 2013-2014 school year. The program awards money that does not have to be repaid to students from low-income families. Nearly two-thirds of African American undergraduates receive Pell funding, as do 51 percent of Latino undergrads, according to the Education Trust.

The long-standing Pell program is currently running a surplus, but that is expected to dry up by 2017. House Republicans argue that maintaining the current max amount "makes the Pell Grant program permanently sustainable so that it is able to serve students today and in the future."

The Obama administration and both Democratic and Republican lawmakers have been tussling over how much money to put in the grant program at a time when many Americans are leaving school with five-figure debt.

President Obama doubled Pell funding in 2010 through savings eked out of reforms to the federal student loan system, but congressional budget agreements the following years cut the benefits by not allowing the grants to be used towards summer school. That change decreased program costs by $5 billion a year.

The administration tried to bolster Pell last year by increasing the maximum award by $100 to $5,775 per school year, which the Education Department said allowed the program to grow 25 percent.

The Institute for the College Access and Success (TICAS) argues that Pell costs have declined 20 percent since 2010 and are projected to remain level over the next 10 years, after adjusting for inflation. The advocacy group pointed out that Obama's proposed budget fully funds the scheduled increases in the maximum award and ties it to inflation after 2017.

Even at its current levels, a Pell grant is not enough to cover the full cost of college for many students. Nine out of ten Pell recipients who graduate from four-year colleges have student loans, and owe on average $4,750 more than their peers, according to TICAS.

The federal grant, much like all other free money, has not kept pace with the cost of going to school. The maximum Pell award covered 77 percent of the cost of attending a four-year public university in 1980, but that fell to 36 percent by 2011, according to the Education Trust.

Aside from freezing the Pell award, Republicans have not provided much details on their higher education priorities.

Senate Republicans released a budget resolution on Wednesday that would no longer guarantee funding for Pell every year and leave it up to Congress' discretion.

“This plan makes no real investments in programs that will prepare American workers for this 21st century economy, and will only make it harder to save money, harder to send a child to college, and harder to enjoy a secure retirement,” said Rep. Bobby Scott (D-VA), ranking member of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce.





Pell Grants Cover Smallest Portion Of College Costs In History As GOP Calls For Cuts


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/pell-grants-college-costs_n_1835081.html


The federal Pell Grant program was designed to help college students coming from low-income families afford the high cost of going to college without getting buried in debt. But the Pell Grant now covers less than one-third of the cost of attendance at public four-year university, the lowest in its history.

Where the maximum Pell Grant once covered the entire cost of obtaining a two-year degree and 77 percent of the cost at a public university in 1980, it now covers only 62 percent of the cost of a two-year degree and 36 percent towards a public four-year degree.

Even though the Pell Grant has never covered such a small fraction, it's been subject to repeated attempts to cut it and make sure it continues to shrink in the future. At the same time, the cost of college is projected to increase faster than inflation.

Meghan McClean, director of policy and federal relations at the National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators, said the Great Recession has created a "perfect storm": More people are going back to school, states have scaled back higher education support, and tuition is growing faster than the Pell Grant can keep up.


The History

Pell Grants were born during Richard Nixon's presidency. The Basic Educational Opportunity Grant, later renamed the Pell Grant, was created in a 1972 reauthorization of the Higher Education Act of 1965. The HEA was a piece of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society agenda, sometimes referred to as the War on Poverty, and it's subject to reauthorization every five or six years. The Pell Grant was named for Sen. Claiborne Pell, a popular Rhode Island Democrat, who served from 1961 to 1997, and died in 2009.

The population of college students greatly increased during the 1960s and '70s, as the boomer generation headed off to school. After creating a federal student loan program, money which must be paid back after graduation, the Pell Grant program was added to provide money which does not need to be repaid.

The idea was to ensure access to higher education for lower income people, since, according to census data, college graduates earn 82.8 percent more than those who only obtain a high school diploma -- almost twice as much. That gap has been growing quickly since the start of the Pell program.

Declining Support, Increasing Tuition

The cost of obtaining a college degree has increased 1,120 percent over the past three decades, about five times the rate of inflation, and a rate with which the Pell Grant simply isn't able to keep up.

The maximum grant in the first year of the program was $452, but quickly increased to $1,400 within a couple of years. That first year though, the maximum $452 Pell Grant covered almost all of a student's tuition, since the average tuition at public universities in 1973 was $490. Last year, the average in-state tuition was $8,244, while the maximum Pell Grant was $5,550.

Some states set in-state tuition far higher, like Pennsylvania State University, where in-state tuition was $15,250 in 2010-11. And many Pell Grant students do not receive the full $5,550, since the grant amount is dependent on a number of variables including family size and income. Nevertheless, half of recipients come from families earning $15,000 or less annually.

Despite the high cost, more high school graduates are going on to college than in 1973 when the Pell Grant began, but they're also going into debt in the process.

Nine out of ten Pell Grant recipients have student loan debt, according to the Institute for College Access and Success. Data from the Department of Education shows they're more than twice as likely to take out student loans as students not receiving Pell Grants.

Abby Miller, an independent consultant who's worked with the Pell Institute, says the Pell Grant's purchasing power has suffered a "pretty dramatic drop, especially when you look at the amount of loans that Pell recipients are taking out." Miller says student debt over the last 10 years for Pell recipients has increased by 90 percent, while their starting salaries upon graduating have only increased by 9 percent.

So students from the poorest families who receive Pell Grants are graduating college with more debt than ever before.

The income achievement gap between children from the richest families and the poorest has grown during the same period: Thomas Edsall noted in a recent New York Times column that "the income achievement gap between children from the highest and lowest income deciles is roughly 30 to 40 percent larger among children born in 2001 than among those born in 1976."

In addition, as the poverty rate has increased since 2008, the number of people applying for federal financial aid has skyrocketed. The number of Pell Grant recipients has grown from 3.9 million in 2000-01 to 9.1 million in 2010-11.

But instead of supporting this assistance for students pursuing a college degree, Congress has sought to cut Pell Grants and turned the program into a political football.
 

VikingKing

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Embers84 said:
You're an idiot and don't know anything about what's really going on in the world and with people's lives.

Y
Senate Republicans released a budget resolution on Wednesday that would no longer guarantee funding for Pell every year and leave it up to Congress' discretion.

“This plan makes no real investments in programs that will prepare American workers for this 21st century economy, and will only make it harder to save money, harder to send a child to college, and harder to enjoy a secure retirement,” said Rep. Bobby Scott (D-VA), ranking member of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce.





Pell Grants Cover Smallest Portion Of College Costs In History As GOP Calls For Cuts


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/pell-grants-college-costs_n_1835081.html


The federal Pell Grant program was designed to help college students coming from low-income families afford the high cost of going to college without getting buried in debt. But the Pell Grant now covers less than one-third of the cost of attendance at public four-year university, the lowest in its history.

Where the maximum Pell Grant once covered the entire cost of obtaining a two-year degree and 77 percent of the cost at a public university in 1980, it now covers only 62 percent of the cost of a two-year degree and 36 percent towards a public four-year degree.

Even though the Pell Grant has never covered such a small fraction, it's been subject to repeated attempts to cut it and make sure it continues to shrink in the future. At the same time, the cost of college is projected to increase faster than inflation.

Meghan McClean, director of policy and federal relations at the National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators, said the Great Recession has created a "perfect storm": More people are going back to school, states have scaled back higher education support, and tuition is growing faster than the Pell Grant can keep up.


The History

Pell Grants were born during Richard Nixon's presidency. The Basic Educational Opportunity Grant, later renamed the Pell Grant, was created in a 1972 reauthorization of the Higher Education Act of 1965. The HEA was a piece of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society agenda, sometimes referred to as the War on Poverty, and it's subject to reauthorization every five or six years. The Pell Grant was named for Sen. Claiborne Pell, a popular Rhode Island Democrat, who served from 1961 to 1997, and died in 2009.

The population of college students greatly increased during the 1960s and '70s, as the boomer generation headed off to school. After creating a federal student loan program, money which must be paid back after graduation, the Pell Grant program was added to provide money which does not need to be repaid.

The idea was to ensure access to higher education for lower income people, since, according to census data, college graduates earn 82.8 percent more than those who only obtain a high school diploma -- almost twice as much. That gap has been growing quickly since the start of the Pell program.

Declining Support, Increasing Tuition

The cost of obtaining a college degree has increased 1,120 percent over the past three decades, about five times the rate of inflation, and a rate with which the Pell Grant simply isn't able to keep up.

The maximum grant in the first year of the program was $452, but quickly increased to $1,400 within a couple of years. That first year though, the maximum $452 Pell Grant covered almost all of a student's tuition, since the average tuition at public universities in 1973 was $490. Last year, the average in-state tuition was $8,244, while the maximum Pell Grant was $5,550.

Some states set in-state tuition far higher, like Pennsylvania State University, where in-state tuition was $15,250 in 2010-11. And many Pell Grant students do not receive the full $5,550, since the grant amount is dependent on a number of variables including family size and income. Nevertheless, half of recipients come from families earning $15,000 or less annually.

Despite the high cost, more high school graduates are going on to college than in 1973 when the Pell Grant began, but they're also going into debt in the process.

Nine out of ten Pell Grant recipients have student loan debt, according to the Institute for College Access and Success. Data from the Department of Education shows they're more than twice as likely to take out student loans as students not receiving Pell Grants.

Abby Miller, an independent consultant who's worked with the Pell Institute, says the Pell Grant's purchasing power has suffered a "pretty dramatic drop, especially when you look at the amount of loans that Pell recipients are taking out." Miller says student debt over the last 10 years for Pell recipients has increased by 90 percent, while their starting salaries upon graduating have only increased by 9 percent.

So students from the poorest families who receive Pell Grants are graduating college with more debt than ever before.

The income achievement gap between children from the richest families and the poorest has grown during the same period: Thomas Edsall noted in a recent New York Times column that "the income achievement gap between children from the highest and lowest income deciles is roughly 30 to 40 percent larger among children born in 2001 than among those born in 1976."

In addition, as the poverty rate has increased since 2008, the number of people applying for federal financial aid has skyrocketed. The number of Pell Grant recipients has grown from 3.9 million in 2000-01 to 9.1 million in 2010-11.

But instead of supporting this assistance for students pursuing a college degree, Congress has sought to cut Pell Grants and turned the program into a political football.
You clearly hate america. We need to have McCarthy hearings again and flush out the communists before the infection gets to deep. Who cares if some republicans want to cut pell grants. If obama didn't waste so much money maybe they wouldn't consider that.

Before you accuse the right side of politics of anything you should look at ll the damage the left has caused.

We must cut out the infection which is communism/ socialism.

Socialism only results in death. More people die as a result of socialism/ communism then in every religious war combined.
 

Stagger Lee

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There are issues with expanding college tuition assistance to more people. Tuition and taxes will spiral upward and if everyone goes to college then it'll be no more meaningful than an high school diploma. Plus colleges seemed to do a better job of producing liberals and democrat voters than job candidates. Very poor students already get tuition financial assistance.

We need to solve the immigration problem right first before we start making sure everyone can go to college.

That said I don't deny Republicans promote classism. But democrats also promote class based on race and sex and even based on being gay or non-christian.
 

Tictac

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Proglibs present 'data' in the following way -

A free floating number (say the unemployment rate) goes the right direction - OBAMA and DEMOCRATS did that!

A free floating number goes the wrong direction - BUSH and REPUBLICANS did that!

It does not matter to them how the number was derived, that is has a numerator and a denominator or that the sample was smoothed by a Paasche or Laspeyres weighted indexing method. Just that it went the right way.

When a ratio changes it can be because the numerator or denominator changes. But libs don't know (and don't want to know) one from the other. Likely they don't know that they even exist.

This is why liberals and democrats spout that they are intellectuals - because they don't know what they are talking about. They are smart because they declare themselves so and 'intellectuals' because they declare themselves so. They cannot think - they emote and regurgitate what they read in HuffPo or some other birdcage liner website with no knowledge of how a number does what it does.

And then they wonder why other people don't like intellectuals. Well when you are 'intellectual' because you declare yourself such and sound (as partisans do) like an idiot, what's to like, admire or emulate?

"Sounds good - go with it. Who cares if it's accurate or even makes sense."
Liberals
 

Bokanovsky

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Embers84 said:
Have you ever went to a University and graduated college? I doubt it.

Poor people don't go to college because they can't afford it. I had a professor who went to a University in the late 60's. It cost him only $160. Today it costs nearly $60,000 and more for 9 months of school. That's why they aren't going to Universities.
I don't know if you ever graduated from college, but you are obviously not very bright. If college was unaffordable, you'd have fewer people going to college today than in the past. But of the course, the exact opposite is true. In 2012, 33% of Americans had at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 24% in 1995 and 21% in 1975.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/13/education/a-sharp-rise-in-americans-with-college-degrees.html?_r=0

Comparing prices in the 1960's to today's prices is meaningless. Everything is more expensive today. I know someone who lives in a house worth about $1.5 million that he bought in the 60's for $11,000. The fact of the matter is that there are already mechanisms in place that allow poor and average folk to go to college. They are called student loans. Even our resident downtrodden victim of capitalism, Gaylan, has apparently been able to go to college. You are not going to fool anyone with your archaic "poor people can't afford college" socialist spiel.

The real problem is that people end up going to college and get worthless degrees that do not translate into careers...and then they are stuck with no jobs and a lot of debt. Making education less expensive will just give us more of these English Literature/Medieval Japanese Philosophy/ Women's Studies triple majors working for minimum wage as Starbucks barristas.

What we need is laws that promote useful, career-oriented education. If it was up to me, I would pass a law that requires universities and colleges to pay back a significant portion of tuition fees to graduates who cannot find jobs in their field within a year from obtaining their degrees (provided the students can demonstrate taking reasonable steps to search for employment). If you are going to award students degrees in philosophy and women studies, you better make sure they can find employment in those fields. And if you can't, refund the cost of their useless degrees. It's no different than consumer legislation that requires manufactures and retailers to refund the cost of a defective product.
 

dasein

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Embers84 said:
The cost of obtaining a college degree has increased 1,120 percent over the past three decades, about five times the rate of inflation, and a rate with which the Pell Grant simply isn't able to keep up.
Only boneheaded leftists with no understanding of finance or markets can't connect the dots between the above facts and PELL GRANTS THEMSELVES + other government meddling in education finance. It's a transparent case of the gov hand washing the statist edu hand, and has been going on in plain view for decades. Our corrupt govedu Complex simply RAISES THE COSTS as the grant amounts are raised, the way-above-market inflation rate PROVES THIS, making Pell grants and other illheaded government social engineering MEANINGLESS other than for those who can't qualify and so have to SUBSIDIZE everyone else by paying full boat... as I did in law school as an adult white male.

Paid 150k for something worth maybe 50k while watching female and black friends FROM WEALTHIER FAMILIES THAN MINE pay half what I paid or sometimes NOTHING... if they are black female. You don't figure this out until a couple years in, by then you are invested so just keep on taking it up the ass. This is the other hidden fact behind this manipulation, the corrupt edu system redistributes under wraps from white male (and increasingly Asian) students to "the privileged colors and gender likely to vote Democrat... and hence keep voting for more and more edu graft" Try this in the private sector? Go to jail, which is where most of what passes for higher education in the US belongs.

It's a giant f-cing scam that anyone with HS math should be able to see. Of course this doesn't prevent placard waving mongoloids who write WaPo blogs and Huffpuff from peddling infinite resentment propaganda.

THE GOVERNMENT meddling in student loans and programs like Pell are the precise reason education is so expensive today! Cap the rate of growth on these programs, restrict them, and surprise surprise, tuition will magically stabilize. IMAGINE THAT! Limit gov student loan guarantees to MARKETABLE degrees, STEM or TRADES, and watch the corrupt govedu oatmeal cultural Marxist hegemony in socialist sciences, humarxities, resentment studies, pre bureaucracy (politics, govt, social work, law enforcement, communications, etc.), and education INSTANTLY IMPLODE.

NO, we can't have that, don't dare threaten our indoctrination centers! Dress it up like "denying the poor an education." That will fool our retard symp voting blocs! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Higher education, like illegal immigration, is just another machine Democrat vote factory. This is the ONLY way these creeps ever get elected outside corrupt blue cities, as average, reasonable people see right through the canard and are sick to death of biggov politics and the gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-lawyer-MSM Complex ruling our lives while we pay 35-50% of our working lives in taxes at all levels to pay for the parasitic troughs the pigs squeal over.
 
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