Should I take a shot ?

[Franky Four Fingers]

I respect the experienced opinions of people here so I'm trying to get a read on this. I'm 42, confident demeanor, friendly, weightlift 4 times a week, many people say I look younger than my years etc.

I go to a local coffee shop to get things done on my laptop using their Wifi. I met a young woman who I learned after seeing her a few times that she's 22. Heres a pic, sorry if its so small but it is her and I think the pic is about 1-2 years ago when she lived in one of the sunshine states for a while, she has less of tan now and looks a bit younger in the pic;

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q222/westwing999/Pic1.jpg

Thats a solid HB9+ in my book. We have seen each other at the Coffee shop 4-5 times. She gives me her email the first time we met. She starts conveying interest by playfully telling me about coming in the top 10 amongst 300 other women in a Maxim mag contest, hence the photo above, and also being in a lingerie contest, tack on two more of those types of comments over the times we meet at the coffee shop.

I do the Gunwitch inner game method which allows me to bring on my ****y / Funny inner self while also getting my inner self into a sexual state of mind. Women the majority of the time pick up the vibe then become interested and I go from there.

We get along great with laughing and flirting etc. she sees that I'm older than her but doesn't know how old so she asks in one of the emails. I play a little game and turn the frame about my age into a DHV story. She does a guessing game and I finally tell her my age. She says I don't look it.

We exchange playful flirting emails. One email I made some sexual innuendos because she made some earlier, I ask her out to dinner, she 'slams on the brakes' and says she has a boyfriend but that we could still go out as friends (LJBF) etc. However, I checked through the archives and came up with one interesting comment in this thread, second poster down (mike123) about comming on too strong and the 'I have a boyfriend';

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18373&page=5

Now I'm at a point where I no longer have those volcanic 18 year old hormones raging through my body so I can talk to her as comfortable as I would talk to her if she were my cousin. But hey, with looks like that she is on my mind.

Now we have seen each other at the coffee shop a couple of days ago, she starts giving out IOI that she wants to go to a hockey game with her friend whos a girl but her friend can't make it. The tickets are $70 a piece X2 thats $140 + food etc. We have a few more laughs, I tell her I had fun talking to her but I had to go, I said we should have lunch as friends, she says definitely, so without me asking she emails me her phone number. The next day I call, her answering machine picks up, its her voice, I leave a playful message about getting together for lunch. Five days past that and no return call.

Normally I would just file this under a no go and let it be. However with a girl with looks like that I have to pause a moment and get some feedback. My thoughts are (and I could be wrong) possibly the "I have a boyfriend" was me coming on too strong in one of my emails and she wanted to slow things down and her mentioning the hockey game and her friend not being able to make it as an open invitation to go out as more than friends instead of just friends at lunch that I suggested.

The final question to all the above is I don't know if that is the case (a real date, asking her to a hockey game) and it's $140 + extras (over $150?). If it's just friends it's a waste. Is she doing the old woman code invitation/bait for "lets go out on a date" or no?

Thanks for any and all thoughts.

 

[Phyzzle]

My thoughts are (and I could be wrong) . . . her mentioning the hockey game and her friend not being able to make it as an open invitation to go out as more than friends instead of just friends at lunch that I suggested.

Your thoughts are wrong. There's nothing about a hockey game that says "more than friends". A date would something more like having lunch. Her looks are totally warping your mind. I would say that she deserves a top 10 ranking indeed.

She's inviting you to pay for her ticket, that's all. And how do non-playoff tickets cost that much?

 

[STR8UP]

If you spend $150 on this chick I'm going to kick you in the head.

 

[Interceptor]

Dude, do not take the.....'shot'...
There was no, and is no 'shot' here. Im sorry.

Dont even give this female another thought.
And do not contact her again.
She's not interested.
Keep your self respect and dignity intact, man.
You just realized that how she looked had nothing to do with her character.
Meaning, she doesnt give a sh*t about you, and just because she's 'hawt', doesnt mean she has class, and is lady like.

Keep walkin'...

 

[SoCalMike]

If you spend $150 on this chick I'm going to kick you in the head.

What he said.

"I have a boyfriend" means "I have already made up my mind that you will never bang me in 1000 years no matter what you do".

This is the brutal reality of it. Cut all contact IMMEDIATELY. I know it goes against your instinct of wanting to bang a hot girl who gives you some attention, but you've got to do it.

Otherwise, she's gonna get a free hockey game out of you, and you're gonna feel dumb.

 

[Mr. Me]

she sees that I'm older than her but doesn't know how old so she asks in one of the emails. I play a little game and turn the frame about my age into a DHV story. She does a guessing game and I finally tell her my age.

You were doing well when you played around but blew it when you answered her question. Age difference was probably a deal killer for her. She was interested in you, and that's why she was asking in order to find out.

When you first meet women, in the early stages, when they ask personal questions, it's either that they're interested or they're trying to find the reasons not to pursue further with you.

If you had just kept her guessing, it could've (but no guarantee) turned out that you would've dated her for a while until hopefully she was so into you that the age difference may not have mattered. I had that happen with a woman where by the time she found out what my age was, she specifically said that she was so into me that it was a non issue now. But you didn't hedge long enough to ingrain yourself to her.

Instead, you're filtering her through your own interest, which is why you think in terms of:

However with a girl with looks like that ...

It doesn't matter what they look like, which is to say, you have to learn not to get suckered because of their looks. As it is, she was eyeing you to finance her seat at the game and all. She doesn't say 'no" directly, instead she says "I have a boyfriend" and doesn't return your calls and when you say "let's have lunch as friends", she says "Sure!" but she doesn't mean it. And she KNOWS you don't want to really just be her friend. You have to see past their looks and watch what they do instead.

 

[NewMan]

Quote:
she sees that I'm older than her but doesn't know how old so she asks in one of the emails. I play a little game and turn the frame about my age into a DHV story. She does a guessing game and I finally tell her my age.


You were doing well when you played around but blew it when you answered her question. Age difference was probably a deal killer for her. She was interested in you, and that's why she was asking in order to find out.

When you first meet women, in the early stages, when they ask personal questions, it's either that they're interested or they're trying to find the reasons not to pursue further with you.

If you had just kept her guessing, it could've (but no guarantee) turned out that you would've dated her for a while until hopefully she was so into you that the age difference may not have mattered. I had that happen with a woman where by the time she found out what my age was, she specifically said that she was so into me that it was a non issue now. But you didn't hedge long enough to ingrain yourself to her.

Instead, you're filtering her through your own interest, which is why you think in terms of:

Somewhat true.

You should not have played the guessing game with her in regards to age.


It is obvious to her that you are old (old in her sense). You played a game, but to her it's an important issue, and because you came accross as weak (you played the guessing game) it became more of an issue.

In my experience, you just come out and tell her how old you are. Confidence, with a sense of "I'm proud of who I am - age an all" is attractive. It shows confidence and power.

Don't be shy when it comes to potential (chick) red flags.

 

[Mr. Me]

and because you came across as weak (you played the guessing game)it became more of an issue.

It would be weak if he acted insecure about his age, but I got the sense that he didn't do that. In fact, she kept on trying to ascertain his age, so evidently she wasn't turned off by how he was going about it - she got disinterested when he finally did reveal it.

I agree with you, one can be and should be confident in one's age no matter the consequence, and yes, a man doesn't back down just because a woman looks at you cross-eyed, but if age is an issue to her, one's proud, brimming confidence is not going to change her stance about that.

The "not giving a direct answer game" (for lack of a better term), if done in a humorous way, does not turn off a woman, unless she's highly rigid and humorless. If anything, they love trying to get you to crack, so you intrigue them more when you don't give in. I can't tell you how many times, when I've kidded and bounced answers to direct questions, the woman will say, "Hmmmmmmm. You're a man of mystery!" or some such thing, in quite a delighted way. It's simply the way they're wired.

All I'm saying, is to see the "getting to know you" stage as a time when one little thing, even if it's innocent and legit, can sink the whole deal. You're a Republican, she's a Democrat. You like dogs, she likes cats. She wants to do crossword puzzles Sunday morning, you're more the go for a run guy. So, it seems to me, that when it comes to age difference, this is one of those areas where she has to become more invested in you in order to have a fighting chance to overcome the issue, if indeed it's an issue for her. Up until then, let her wonder. When she wonders, she's thinking about you. That trumps being LJBF'd.

 

[Metro3pilot]

you miss 100% of the shots you don't take ...however don't invest too much time setting up for the shot, or you may miss other shots ...

 

[Tazman]

Looks like you found yourself a typical attention wh0re, who doesn't mind taking advantage of you using her sexual appeal.

 

[Juando]

Man, you got some of the most concentrated good advice on the planet.

You cannot lose:
Take the easy way and follow the advice given.
Or, do it the hard way and go for the chick.

Either way, you will end up a wise man.

 

[MikeEdward1973]

Pursue only women with high IL.

Yeah, if there's a piece of advice from this board that I've implemented and that's made a huge difference, it's this one. The kino, being ****y & funny, spinning places, all that stuff it tactical. But this bit of wisdom is a strategic gem that isn't always easy to oblige, but sure makes a big difference when you do.

And as another poster mentioned, when you do walk away from women without a high interest level, your inner game soars, and the odds of you getting burned really drop.

 

[Franky Four Fingers]

Thanks for everyones thoughts and advice. Some of my thoughts below on what was said;

Your thoughts are wrong. There's nothing about a hockey game that says "more than friends". A date would something more like having lunch. Her looks are totally warping your mind. I would say that she deserves a top 10 ranking indeed.

She's inviting you to pay for her ticket, that's all. And how do non-playoff tickets cost that much?

You pointing out her pick of the venue and how it's a friends place to go totally blew over my head. Thanks for pointing that out. It's spot on correct.

If you spend $150 on this chick I'm going to kick you in the head.

Every single time without exception when I read this I laugh my a$$ off. :crackup: ... but on a serious note I do realize underlying message and agree.

You just realized that how she looked had nothing to do with her character.
Meaning, she doesnt give a sh*t about you, and just because she's 'hawt', doesnt mean she has class, and is lady like.

I did sense initially (but not totally certain at that point) that she was the stereotypical hottie in that while she has upper level beauty she was very insecure inside. She kept on trying to tell me stories about sexy jobs and contests like Maxim mag photo shoots and lingerie contests as well as others etc. She mentioned a different one only once but it was consistent each time I saw her and talked with her.

Her reasons were twofold as I see it; 1. Shes beautiful but her self esteem is based on that beauty because that is where all the attention she had gotton all the way back to her young teens is my guess. 2. She was obviously trying to get into my head a piece at a time with images to try and play a puppet on string.

I jokingly said in a ****y funny voice; "(her name) ... pause ... are you an artist? ... pause .... because your trying to paint funny pictures in my head with all these stories of Maxim this and lingerie that" She smiled and looked down.

Woman are funny in that they play there cards usually not all at once but over days/weeks/months/even years. Crafty little suckers.

Otherwise, she's gonna get a free hockey game out of you, and you're gonna feel dumb.

Agreed. Well said too.

If you had just kept her guessing, it could've (but no guarantee) turned out that you would've dated her for a while until hopefully she was so into you that the age difference may not have mattered.

I kept her guess for a long while, I figured my confidence and ****y funny attitude would handle the age situation but I guess it was likely age was an issue for her. The sad thing is she won't ever get to see all the benefits a more mature man can give a woman. Now for her it's back to the young kiss a$$'s that she can play at will the moment she meets them instantly. Her loss in my opinion.

As it is, she was eyeing you to finance her seat at the game and all. She doesn't say 'no" directly, instead she says "I have a boyfriend" and doesn't return your calls and when you say "let's have lunch as friends", she says "Sure!" but she doesn't mean it. And she KNOWS you don't want to really just be her friend. You have to see past their looks and watch what they do instead.

Couldn't have said it better.

It is obvious to her that you are old (old in her sense). You played a game, but to her it's an important issue, and because you came accross as weak (you played the guessing game) it became more of an issue.

I'm a very balanced man and if you were right I would say so but I have to respectfully disagree about being seen as weak. I knew that I needed more time to try and get her to overlook the age difference if it were an issue to her. In addition to the game which added some mystery to drag her along I had a lot of well put conversation as far as writing off the age difference. However, it looks like not enough with the LJBF. Again, in my opinion her loss.

The "not giving a direct answer game" (for lack of a better term), if done in a humorous way, does not turn off a woman, unless she's highly rigid and humorless. If anything, they love trying to get you to crack, so you intrigue them more when you don't give in. I can't tell you how many times, when I've kidded and bounced answers to direct questions, the woman will say, "Hmmmmmmm. You're a man of mystery!" or some such thing, in quite a delighted way. It's simply the way they're wired.

Yes this was my intended effect as I mentioned above to the other comment. We think alike on that. I think it was David Deangelo that said that as well as Mystery.

A highly interested girl will make it known unequivocally. One minute wasted on this girl is one minute too many.

Pursue only women with high IL. You have put a high price on this girl based on her looks. You already painted her the "Prize". The frame is compromised and so will be your self respect if you choose to continue.

You know your right. But one thing I noticed the last time we met was the frame **seemed** still in my favor with something in her look when she emailed me her phone number just as I was shutting down my laptop and I didn't get to see what she did. She noted she sent me the last email looked disappointed that I didn't see it. My thoughts were her thinking "hey I wanted to let you see I gave you my phone number and that would please you". However, now that I think about it it looks more like "once he see's my phone number I got this guy hooked" lmao. The thing is I never acted the part she was accustomed to meaning Sheepish mannered guys all dazzled by her beauty that were so dumbfounded that they can only ask about how her day was and thats it. Funny. I was confused though which is why I came here to get straightened out. Womens indirect nature throws you for a loop sometimes. My bad.

you miss 100% of the shots you don't take ...however don't invest too much time setting up for the shot, or you may miss other shots ...

I'd say I took my shot when I asked her out to dinner and she did the LJBF. It was a non-starter.

Looks like you found yourself a typical attention wh0re, who doesn't mind taking advantage of you using her sexual appeal.

Yeap. It's tragic she doesn't realize what she's missing out on. I say that in a non bragging non ego saving way. But it is the truth.

And as another poster mentioned, when you do walk away from women without a high interest level, your inner game soars, and the odds of you getting burned really drop.

Well spoken. My inner game is at an all time high. Not because of doing a walk away but because of the good advice I've learned from places like here. She may have been just an attention wh0re but it takes some pretty decent inner game to grab a woman's attention that's 20 years difference and an HB9+ (i know low character, AW etc. but still she can get a free hockey game from any guy and she must get hit on 15 times a day at the bank she works) Just my humble opinion and I say that with all humility. My outer game needs improvement though. It will take time but I'll eventually get it. I'd honestly choose an HB6 with high IL over this one realizing what I do now from the help here.

I wish there was a sosuave . net 20 years ago. So much more fun I would have had. lol

Thanks guys.

 

[STR8UP]

With these young, HOT women, it is not enough to show her that you are confident in your age, you have to turn the tables on her and reverse the qualification process.

You have to set the frame EARLY though, cause if she gets a foothold you will never gain control. You gotta get in there IMMEDIATELY and make it known that you aren't sure if you would be willing to "make an exception" to date a woman her age.

Make HER qualify her maturity level to you, not you qualify your merits as a "mature" man to her.

"OMG....you're just a BABY!" and "Oh man, I don't know if I should be talking to you.....I might get arrested" work wonders. Just had a 20 yr old I recently met request me as a friend on Myspace. Sent her a return message saying something like "I'm not sure if I'm allowed to have a friend your age on here. i don't want Chris Hansen popping out of the bushes one of these days"

Didn't get me laid or anything but she seemed to appreciate the humor.

Don't let a woman's age intimidate you. You are a high value male, and as such you can be attractive to women that range from 20 years younger to 20 years older than you are. It's all up to you.

 

[Franky Four Fingers]

Make HER qualify her maturity level to you, not you qualify your merits as a "mature" man to her.

"OMG....you're just a BABY!" and "Oh man, I don't know if I should be talking to you.....I might get arrested" work wonders. Just had a 20 yr old I recently met request me as a friend on Myspace. Sent her a return message saying something like "I'm not sure if I'm allowed to have a friend your age on here. i don't want Chris Hansen popping out of the bushes one of these days"

Thats a good point. I remember Style being interviewed on a late night talk show and sitting beside him, as she was just previously interviewed, was Jessica Alba.

Pic;
http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Jessica-Alba-itb01.jpg

The host asked Style to give an example of what pickup artists sometimes do so when it comes to very beautiful women and he ended up getting her to qualify herself to him. It was fun to watch, heres the clip;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC0hrqbhx5M

He did it around 4:00 minutes in. So basically he 'flipped the script' kind of like what I think your talking about.

Now what I found interesting is look at her body language after he did the qualifying. At around the 6:00 minute mark not only is she facing towards Style smiling at everything he's saying but her left arm is resting on his chair moving into his personal space (subconscious IOI?). Funny.

In my case I did one of small things Style did in the clip to the girl in this thread with the "beauty is common" line to bring her down a notch on the pole so to speak. Funny thing is beauty is common with 3 billion women on the planet.

Don't let a woman's age intimidate you. You are a high value male, and as such you can be attractive to women that range from 20 years younger to 20 years older than you are. It's all up to you.

Thanks for your smart advice but just a quick note in that there was no intimidation just confusion on my part on what I refer to as 'woman code' and trying to figure out whats what. In recent years I began to realize that 100 years from now none of anything that is happening in ANY of our lives will matter to ANY of us (not trying to be morbid BTW). So to me while I was attracted to her beauty she was just another person to me which is one of the reasons I was so comfortable talking/joking etc around her.

 

[NewMan]

I'm a very balanced man and if you were right I would say so but I have to respectfully disagree about being seen as weak. I knew that I needed more time to try and get her to overlook the age difference if it were an issue to her. In addition to the game which added some mystery to drag her along I had a lot of well put conversation as far as writing off the age difference. However, it looks like not enough with the LJBF. Again, in my opinion her loss.

Thats my point - you don't need to 'give her time to get over your age'. She knows your older, you know your older.

Let's not beat around the bush, for women, age is a big deal.

 

[Franky Four Fingers]

Thats my point - you don't need to 'give her time to get over your age'. She knows your older, you know your older.

Let's not beat around the bush, for women, age is a big deal.

I'd say on a grand scale and generally speaking for women it's a problem but with more polished outer game, in my humble opinion, I would have won her over or anyone thats a seasoned PUA like some of the guys here would have as well.

It's how you make a woman FEEL that eventually does it or not. Look at Celine Dion the famous singer, she married an old man. The reason? Because of how he made her feel over time.

Don't get me wrong I'm not unrealistic, it is certainly more challenging but as I see it not impossible. If I believed "for women, age is a big deal" I never would have opened my mouth to her (or many women that I meet for that matter).

I mean even with this LJBF while not satisfactory, she gave me her phone number without me even asking (free hockey game or not), and there was still some enjoyment as well as learning out the whole thing with the interactions that were done and learning from you guys after posting the experience on what she's really saying and doing. Other people who read this thread will also benefit by learning etc.

 

[Mike32ct]

There is another approach to the age issue. I believe this came from the former PUA Mike a/k/a Sicboy. (He was PlayboyLA's wing.) I used it myself successfully.

When the girl asks your age, say, "Guess?"

If the girl is at all interested, she will give the age that she WANTS you to be.

Then reply, "Wow. Good guess." Then just go with that number.

I met a 21 y/o in Vegas and I was 31 at the time. I used this technique on her. She guessed 27. I just went with that and hooked up with her later.

Her girlfriend (also 21) was approached by a guy close to my age. When asked about age, he was honest and said "30." He was quickly blown out. He also admitted to being a cab driver. She kept knocking him all night, long after he was gone. "Can you believe the creepy 30 y/o cab driver?" LOL The funny part is I'm older than him, but smart enough to keep my mouth shut lol.

Obviously, if you are looking for a relationship, then by all means be honest. But for a quick hookup, who cares? Let her think you are what ever age she wants.

This also works in reverse. Let's say you want to hook up with a much older MILF/cougar and you are worried about being blown out because you're too young/immature? Let her guess your age. If she is at all interested, she will guess a bit high. Just go with that.

 

[Mr. Me]

Obviously, if you are looking for a relationship, then by all means be honest.

Gents, understand the difference between being honest and being open. The two get confused often.

You're 40, she's 25, she seems interested and asks you your age. Chances are she'll reject you because you're out of her parameter, and that's why she's asking. But the point is, you don't owe her any answer at this stage. If you were to ask her any personal question, is she under obligation to give you an answer? Of course not. If she asked you how much money you make, do you need to tell her? Of course not.

I've already pointed how any little thing can sink the deal at this early stage. I've also pointed out that women love mystery and delight in discovering things about you - slowly. They also like a challenge, they like being teased, despite any innocent protests to the contrary, and if you're going to answer every question just because she asked, you're not a challenge, you're no mystery and you're no tease. You're just another shmoe who does what they say. And you'll get nexted, because they don't have any other information to go on. The information we want them to have is how they FEEL about us, and that's not going to be all what it can be when you first meet, unless you're Brad Pitt. You need to get some dates in.

Celine Dion or others who got involved with older men had one of two things happen: 1. They got emotionally invested in the guy first. They knew he was older, but they got to know him because they were interested enough, attracted to him, and eventually, fell for him. That mitigated the age difference. 2. The age issue was not all that extremely imperative for them in the first place.

So, yes, be honest. But you don't have to be open. It's not their business how old you are. If they like you, they should go on a date with you, period. Several dates in, when I see that she's more interested in me then ever before, if she brings it up, that's when I may tell her. And I find that when I do that way, she still dates me.

If, OTOH, she walks when I first meet her because I won't answer her question about how old I am and playfully deflect her question, and that's happened, then I've lost nothing because she's shown her hand - she's more interested in a number then in me.

 

[BeyondCharm]

This is such a good post I just wanted to re-quote it.

A lot of guys I've heard "feel bad" about not being completely open about everything and anything. Well, time takes time and fools rush in. What I mean is that we often foolishly rush in to telling someone all about ourselves and we CHEAT them the opportunity to discover us.

If you learn to listen and speak with the ratio of your ears to your mouth, you'll be listening twice as much as you speak. This will give you a good opportunity to let them ask you questions and learn about you. They'll also realize that you are interested in them and are not just going off about yourself.

Part of being a decent human being is about learning to UNDERSTAND others. To do so, we have to listen carefully to what they are saying and why they are saying it.

Gents, understand the difference between being honest and being open. The two get confused often.

You're 40, she's 25, she seems interested and asks you your age. Chances are she'll reject you because you're out of her parameter, and that's why she's asking. But the point is, you don't owe her any answer at this stage. If you were to ask her any personal question, is she under obligation to give you an answer? Of course not. If she asked you how much money you make, do you need to tell her? Of course not.

I've already pointed how any little thing can sink the deal at this early stage. I've also pointed out that women love mystery and delight in discovering things about you - slowly. They also like a challenge, they like being teased, despite any innocent protests to the contrary, and if you're going to answer every question just because she asked, you're not a challenge, you're no mystery and you're no tease. You're just another shmoe who does what they say. And you'll get nexted, because they don't have any other information to go on. The information we want them to have is how they FEEL about us, and that's not going to be all what it can be when you first meet, unless you're Brad Pitt. You need to get some dates in.

Celine Dion or others who got involved with older men had one of two things happen: 1. They got emotionally invested in the guy first. They knew he was older, but they got to know him because they were interested enough, attracted to him, and eventually, fell for him. That mitigated the age difference. 2. The age issue was not all that extremely imperative for them in the first place.

So, yes, be honest. But you don't have to be open. It's not their business how old you are. If they like you, they should go on a date with you, period. Several dates in, when I see that she's more interested in me then ever before, if she brings it up, that's when I may tell her. And I find that when I do that way, she still dates me.

If, OTOH, she walks when I first meet her because I won't answer her question about how old I am and playfully deflect her question, and that's happened, then I've lost nothing because she's shown her hand - she's more interested in a number then in me.