Should I still persist? (very long but I need to get it off my chest…)

[Dilatory]

No doubt this being my first post I’ll attract some you’re an “AFC” type of grief. I expect this rejection from you guys…and I’ll be sure to move on!

I’ve been chatting to a 6year younger woman working at the pub, I was sure she was interested, all the usual body language, main thing is her face would light up whenever I’d enter (my local pub). We’d talk about everything, she’s very comfortable with me talking about family and friends, her university work and traveling experience. I’ve always understood the customer rule so there was never a problem until….

My dilemma started around a month ago, she mentioned a band she’d like to see, and said she’d bring me a CD and I should come if I liked them, I responded with “that sounds great, I look forward to hearing them”. This is where is thought maybe I do like this girl and I do enjoy her company….so I wanted initially to know if she’d like to hangout sometime away from the bar.

I looked up the gig guide for this band, it turns out they are 2 months or so away, so I figured, she’d initiated this I’ll ask her to something sooner.

The following week we were talking about music, and during the conversation I through in the “how about we catch a band somewhere other than here one night?” Her reaction was priceless, she got noticeably rattled and paused and followed up with “we will, I told you about the band I’m waiting to see the other week, I want you to come and a few of my friends will be there”. I was a little taken back by her response but remained calm and changed the subject and continued talking a while longer.

Two days later I figured I’d better not be a wimp and not show up, I walked in she was on the phone, happy smile spread across her face and she rapped up the conversation. While pouring my usual drink, she asked what “gigs where coming up?” I mentioned a couple of international acts I had brought tickets too, of which one of them she said she liked, and without hesitation she asked “when are they were playing?”, reacted under the counter for the staff diary, and wrote in it unavailable to work that date I’d mentioned. She also asked when the band she’d mentioned was playing and put unavailable for that as well.

Her next question was “who are you going with?” I said “nobody at this stage, I brought two tickets though because it was seating only, a few friends like them but they’ve newborns and my older sister really likes the CD I copied for her” She finished pouring my Guinness and we talked about other stuff.

During that night she steered the conversation to a boring night she had the night earlier, she’d opened a bottle of wine and got dressed up with nowhere to go… So she said she’d gone and sat at her girls friends bar and done crosswords with her until closing time. I shook my head and said “this is exactly what I was talking about the other night” implying the incident the couple of days before, I said “I’d be a dill if I didn’t acknowledge my actions the other night wouldn’t have freaked you (she shook her head), but I assure you these were not my intentions (her cheeks went red), I’ll freely admit I enjoy our talks and I’m sure we’d have fun (she nodded), then said she was sorry for her response. I said please don’t apologise, the way I see it nobodies to blame. I’m confident in saying I know you don’t think I’m a sleaze or a creepy customer (she nodded again). I finally said promise me one thing….if you ever get dressed up with no where to go or anything to do, give me a call (she had full red face at this stage, and she was nervously rolling her tongue stud between her teeth)
She reached behind the bar (she sits next to me while there are no customers in early in the evening) and asked for my number, one thing I’m sh*ty with myself about is ortho I said the number slow, I didn’t re-say it nor did she read it back to me….?

I then followed up by saying “if your up for it let me know and I’ll hang on to this ticket for you” she said “that’s excellent I’ll let you know soon”

A week went pasted and the gig was coming up, I’d decided to say something on this particular night. I walked in and she was grumpy, so I waited a few minutes and asked “alright what’s up?” Apparently the boss had been a prick to another employee and they’d quit, she said she had to cover all her shifts (including the night of the band which she failed to mention anything about).

I waited until I was coming back from the men’s room a while later and said off the cuff “too bad about working Friday….you’ll miss a great gig”. Her face went blank and she said “is it this Friday?” Now I must admit she looked noticeably pained with this news, and she followed up with “the boss had asked her if she still needed the night off”, but she couldn’t remember what it was for….so she said “don’t worry I’ll work”. My reaction and answer to this was “not to worry, maybe some other time…”.

This was two weeks ago now, we’ve talked a heap since, her little sister started training there to help out, she introduced me straight away as “this is _____, his good value, so keep his glass full”. Last week she found out she’d got the house her and her friend had applied for, and said “I must come to the house warming and meet the rest of her buddies”. Her brother also came in that night with his girlfriend and they were very accommodating to me.

At this point I’ll rap it up, I guess what I’m asking here is considering I’ve asked her twice, first time I feel she sort of shut me down, second time she’d maybe genuinely forgotten (this I’m not worried about because she’s a heavy pot smoker and she forgets a lot of things she’d said a number of times since), but I think I’d be stupid to ask again…I believe I’d be better off waiting until her house warming or the gig which is now in a months time and see how I’m treated then.

I suppose the best think out of all of this now is she knows I’m interested, maybe she’s being over cautious (as she followed a guy overseas a couple of years ago and go burnt 3days later, so stuck in Ireland on her own she said she’d sunk pretty low for a while).

If you feel your only advice is NEXT then maybe this post isn’t for you, please tell me if you’ve experienced this type of situation before and whether I should stick with it, I don’t want to confirm her suspicions and treat her badly by walking away, she’s way to good a person for this, and possibly they are games she’s playing to find out if I’m genuine or not.

Or do you think she’s letting me down as a customer with dignity...?

 

[shyguy32]

First...I say your selling yourself short when you say "she's a big pot smoker". I have nothing against people doing drugs occasionally....I personally don't want anyone in my life who does any drugs...but if your a heavy user then maybe you two are made for each other.


Anyway...I'd quit being so predictable. She knows your going to be at her pub on your usual nights...get with some friends and head to another place. Maybe she'll then call and say..."hey I missed you the other night, want to grab lunch"

All I'm saying is that your going to end up on the lets just be friends list soon.

 

[TheTrimReaper]

Next her.

 

[Dilatory]

Your right about the dope shyguy32, however I must admit I was a very heavy smoker in my early 20’s, I’ve since slowed down to just music festivals and the occasional once a month green joint with mates. To tell you the truth, the pot doesn’t bother me…after all I think most of us go through this stage, and like myself I just grew out of it without even noticing.

By the way it’s my pub!!! She worked there a couple of years ago and went overseas, and then she came back 6 months ago. I’ve a good relationship with the owner and other bar staff as I’ve been there at least 1 night a week for over 5 years, most of the bands that play there have seen me at other venues and acknowledge me.
Sometimes I do skip nights and she does ask what I’ve been up to and complains about always working, but your right when I do go in (one particular night) I do so early just to chat to her.

I see your point….I probably would have to start being more unpredictable, but wasn’t sure if this would indicate that my interest is fading, after all it sort of is. But I don’t want to do what every other guy would do.…besides I know I stand out as different and she talks to me a little more openly now (after the incident), for instance more embarrassing/dumb stuff she’s done in the past. Maybe being hurt buy some jerk has made her raise the bar a little or brought her dating guard up a touch.

I guess I’ll get closure if/when I’m invited to her house warming or see how she treats me at the gig in December, if she acts like a friend then I’ll move on (the way I see it is it’s only another month so what’s the harm). I go out to gigs at least 4 nights a week and do end up seeing other women. However she’s stood out as a really great girl.

Thanks TheTrimReaper but may I’d suggested that “nexting” her isn’t an option in my control, after all if I’ve indeed been LJBF’d then she’s “nexted” me to which I’d be more than happen to move on however, my question is basically how long do you usually allow for young girls to possibly flake out for? After all she started this and either way wanted to be friends or maybe felt I was worth getting to know, remember she seeded the initial idea that I’d like to come to see a band she liked after their tour was announced.

I’ve seen the way she burns other guy’s advances by being very abrupt to them (even smirking while she walks past me) plus pointing out the dreaded customers (this was a while ago, to which I laughed said “boy…I’d hate to think what say to them about me!”), so I do think I’ve made a good impression.

A couple of girls I know and a mate’s wife said I should now be patient (considering I’ve tried twice, plus I’ve even talked to her about it), as they’ve been in situations where guy’s have keep asking or hinting stuff and it’s given them the sh*ts. I thought this the other night when her brother came in, they may have been her backup but…his girlfriend and he were both very nice.

I guess I'll eventually find out....who knows, I'm basically fishing for ideas on how to act, or how long to wait....I know whatever we discuss here is all purely speculation.

Cheers guy's.

 

[hithard]

you can always try going early with some female friends to spark an interest then all leave for a night on the town.Or take another girl to a concert and mention you and shazza had a great night watching whatever band.Thats if you want to start using effort.Sounds like your stuck in bar tender/customer relationship.So put it on the backburner and look for more girls untill you spark up enough interest in this one.

Dilatory you should know what aussie girls are like in general though(not that I like to lump them all in the same, but yet to be proven wrong).From 16 - 26 years of age they will drop their daks to every jerk they can find and treat the guys that do like them as second rate friends.I often wonder if Cleo or Dolly has some kind of brain control machine.From the mentality of a lot of the girls I've met it could probably fit in the palm of your hand.

 

[Un-Aru]

It obviously sounds as though you've got good rapport going with her and she probably thinks you're different in that you actually take an interest in who she is as a person, rather than the content of her pants. The problem with this approach is that it WILL lead you to the LJBF zone given enough TIME, unless you get to lure her OUT of her work environment.

I just had a very similar experience. Basically I got fantastic rapport going with a very cute girl (gym receptionist) to the point where she tracked down MY number and asked ME out. After that I asked her out twice over the next 3 weeks to which she replied the usual "I'm busy" and "we'll see." The turning point came when I told her "I'll come up and see you when you finish work this afternoon."

Now I was actually expecting her to flake and when she did I took the opportunity to experiment with some DJ tactics. When I saw her next I was still friendly but when she asked "are you going to come back to talk to me and keep me company?" I laughed and said "I dunno, you bail on me and still expect my attention? Should I be rewarding that sort of behaviour?" I went and did a workout, passed back through after finishing at which point she tried to keep me there but I told her "it looks like you're busy, I'll see you another time." The next night I left while she wasn't on the desk and 15 mins later got a text saying "You left without saying goodbye, I'm devastated" to which I replied "Na, didn't want you to jump me and have your wicked way with me - haha I'm not that easy"

The proof that these techniques work - she calls me on the sunday, I go up to her place and well... its on for the next 3 weeks. Of course she is only 20 and an Aussie which puts her right in the middle of Dilatory's unreliable behaviour bracket. And sure enough that's been proven true as well.

I guess the point I'm making is to guage a true indication of her interest level you need to change up your game. You can still be friendly and positive, but don't talk to her for half an hour, don't say goodbye, don't turn up at all. She has your number, if she really misses your attention and wants more she'll call you - otherwise I'm afraid to say that all you are is an interesting distraction on an otherwise routine work night. She may see you as more than just a customer right now - but is that enough for her to take it to the next level?

 

[Dilatory]

Hithard & Un-Aru, thanks for your input. It’s great to see Australian men apply more logic to their responses.

On the making her jealous approach, I’m not sure whether this is quite my style. For instance if this approach was tried on me, I’d be more incline to ignore it as a sign of disrespect and pretty much move on….probably even laugh and turn to a subtle you blew it type of attitude.

I’m at the stage where I believe everyone is right and I must start turning my attention elsewhere, I’m going to make a conscious effort to lay low this week. After all I feel I’ve done all the ground work necessary for if she had genuine interest in me, then yes she would wonder where I was (or thought unless she does in fact call….it’s only natural for her to press me as to where I was on my next visit)….previously my mentality was if I stayed away too long it would show lack of interest and she’d consider her other options (or maybe she’s already been doing this?). But for now I think I’ve got to protect myself from A. going insane or B. looking like a tool who can’t take a subtle hint.

Either way, getting her out of her work environment has been my priority, if she’d prefer to do this on her terms with her friends around then fair enough. I’m more than happy to see if this house warming eventuates or at the very least if she attends the gig in December.

At this point however I have to admit….one night around 2 1/2 months ago (a night I don’t usually attend), she asked if I was going to stick around for the band, I said I’d hang around for a little bit but must get something to eat first, “what will you get?” she asked, I said probably a piece of pizza from up the road, her response was “I’ll come up with you but I’ve only a 1/2 hour break and I also have to pickup a coffee”. We wondered up continued the chat from the bar earlier before the other staff and customers had turned up, it was a good walk and great chat. I didn’t think it was appropriate to crack on to her (so to speak) this particular time, because I wanted to develop more trust, and beside I wasn’t sure at that stage….(Don’t ping me on this too hard, I still believe it was a trust thing that I wasn’t prepared to break at risk of looking sleazy).

It’s a good point Un-Aru about I could be taking the boredom out of a usual mundane night at work, I have thought about this before (I can’t say I’d blame her, the whole industry wouldn’t be the best environment to spend hours.), but up until now I’ve preferred to think that there was an authentic connection, possibly being that it’s only friendship (which is what I’m starting to resign myself into believing), no to worry I’ll go down knowing I tried and made my intentions clear….so from that perspective I have no regrets.

I also do the not talking thing sometimes, mainly while the music’s on, during this time when I do notice she’s looking/smiling at me, I usually lift my eyebrows and smile quickly back, and continue watching the band.

On the leaving front, if she’s busy when I have to leave I do go without saying goodbye (I couldn’t think of a more AFC thing to do but wait for her to turn around, and then have me waiving goodbye from my barstool!). After I have had to leave this way a few of times, it’s almost always mentioned in a way for example “I did see you as you got to the door the other night” or “what time did you leave?”, I remind her that she was flat out and leave it at that.

The saga continues, however I’ll stay occupied this week and see what happens during my next visit, it can’t hurt now….I’m fresh out of ideas anyway....

Thanks again for all your input.

 

[shyguy32]

On the making her jealous approach, I’m not sure whether this is quite my style. For instance if this approach was tried on me, I’d be more incline to ignore it as a sign of disrespect and pretty much move on



key words here....if this approach were tried on me...

Women are different...especially if they're above average in the looks department. I have a few friends like this...they take this as a challenge...especially when it's someone that has been fawning over them for so long, they say "hey thats my guy I'm stringing along" and they'll push the thing to another level just to get you back into their "control".

Also, they like to feel superior to other women so they'll do what it takes to prove this in their mind.

 

[OpenMind]

U already have been LJBF'ed

it's simple...... she has low interest bro..... women who like you don't make it this difficult to get a date..... you are chasing her, it should be the other way around, find a different girl who actually wants to go on a date with you.

 

[Dilatory]

Trust me…I do suspect your're right.

But as your name suggests, I thought I’d be better served keeping an OpenMind and running my situation passed you guys first.

One positive note is, if I’m invited to the housewarming or we hangout at the gig, I'm sure she’ll continue to introduce me to people. I’ll of course act in a manner to make sure not to be LJBFed in the future!

Appreciate your responses.

 

[hithard]

I remember back a few years now, some friends and I were out in a country town pub.They were a little slow to start so I started to chat up all the women in the place to get them going.Now there was one barchick that was drop dead fine ,and one of my friends pointed this out.I remember saying na too much work she probably gets hit on all the time, theres enough tail in here.I had a quick chat with her and she was friendly but she was busy.So off I went

Well we were working in this town but I had to leave for three days.When I come back it turns out one of my friends had managed to screw her in the car.His pick up method is pretty much too the point ,along the lines of want to screw.My friendly chat with her gave me the impression that she was not that type but there ya go.She found out he had a girlfriend a few days later so that was the end of that.

Just watch out for that friend zone.You need to spark a whole lot of interest later down the track otherwise.Your always using a massive amount of effort doing the work to get her.And it feels like your doing all the chasing.Where as my friend walked up persisted got the sex pretty much thought I dont care and she was doing all the chasing and work after the fact.
Whoever does all the work is valued less in the relationship.Girls know when you have an interest in them.

 

[guitaronfire411]

Wait a second here. Shouldn't the guy be doing ALL the work until after the first date?

 

[hithard]

Wait a second here. Shouldn't the guy be doing ALL the work until after the first date?

Well not percieved work on your part.Better if she thinks shes working for you attention.She has to think shes chasing you to value you more.Otherwise your the guy buying dinner and flowers on the first date.

 

[Dilatory]

Look….I must admit I wasn’t happy, with your ideas but they’ve helped me keep my dignity.

Turns out over the last couple of weeks she’s been seeing this guy (don’t think they’re too serious), anyway his come in and chatted to me a couple of times (apparently knows about me), I’ve thought nothing of it. Now it turns out they’re dating.

This prick is an absolute gumboot, his all over the place and she’s already rolling her eyes (to me) at the things he says.

Funny thing is she’s still talking to me more than ever, and this guy seems to be even trying to justify himself to me, mind you in the meantime I’ve turned into this easy going calm motherfuker, a real who cares type of guy.

I’m now of the opinion that this girl was not a suit for me, judging by her choice of fukbuddy (I’m calling him this because it will not last!).

My next project is to continue going as regular as I’ve been, I’m going to use this time making her regret not taking more of an interest of me. After all it's my pub remember!

It’s a shame she couldn’t see what a great guy I am, I’m positive she’ll be sorry…I’ll be sure to keep you posted.

I now know I’m the prize. Thanks for all your help.

 

[hithard]

You can get the ball on the roll now.Tell her that "he seems like a nice(good) guy, you guys are good together"or something to that effect.Do it either when he's there or just after he's said or done something stupid.Then walk off.

I've used the "you should be with him" line so many times on younger girls (that at the start I was chashing)only to have them start chasing after me.Doing a backflip in the situation must freak them out.Just watch out though they keep throwing false signs of interest to try and reel you back in.Each time you reject it they have to do more and more to get your interest.

The other angle is to do the above and make him seem like the ball and chain without actually putting him down directly.You have to seem like the thrill root.And one thing I know about aussie girls around this age is they would cheat on the love of their life for someone that seemed exciting ,fun, and got them into what they shouldnt be doing(screwing you).

This is if your interested in banging her though.And all of the above while looking for other girls.All this game playing bull pees me off but usually sex is my focus so what are you going to do.Be morale go home and spank it is not for me.I have noticed of late that the girls with boyfriends are easier then the single girls.Go figure

 

[Dilatory]

Excellent ideas! I can’t pass up an opportunity to have some fun with this situation…I so glad I’ve kept quiet about everything (apart from the initial asking her out aspect), just for the satisfaction of looking like the in control head strong motherfuker.

She’s still keen to come to the gig in December, I’ve remained reserved when she’s mentioned she hasn’t yet brought tickets. Put it this way the longer she stays with this prick the less time I’ll have for her at the gig.

His also got a kid, to a lady who doesn’t like him. Can’t understand why she’d team up with him which makes me wonder where her heads at (hopefully I don’t offend anyone with illegitimate kids out there?).

Also not sure how long him hanging around at her work will last, surely she’ll tell him not to come in so often, either that or the boss will start thinking his grogs being handed out.

I’d still drink with her and hook up for chats, because I honestly do believe besides being very young, deep down she’s a good person. However to have this poofass hanging around and of course without her giving me a straight answer over the last month or so, is disrespectful and cannot be condoned.

Hope she’s happy with how this turned out, sad thing is as I said I don’t think she’s as serious as he feels she is, but….either way I’m digging in…as it’s my pub!

 

[hithard]

Do you know if this other guy has a job, is he young ,come from a bogan area,looks a little ratty even if well dressed.Just a quick heads up.Alot and I mean alot of aussie girls are AW's.It may seem like me being a hater, but no this is something I have actively noticed.Watch for signs shes damaged goods.There is a brilliant post on Attention Wh0res somewhere real eye opener.And Ive seen and been with the worst.Hey their the ones that put out in clubs if your the jerk.

I dont have enough to go off but just watch the damaged goods clause these girls are real players.That have an on/off switch for their emotions and how they treat ppl, and even how they justify their actions.And they seem to end up with the above mentioned characters.Be aware but just take this advice as a big maybe not fact.

Keep us posted really interested in how this pans out.And if it does fit the mould

 

[Dilatory]

Your 100% right…both come from mentioned areas, he isn’t employed and does have that surfer/hippy appearance. Until the last couple of days, I did think she was different but obviously my judgment has been clouded.

I’m sure her intensions mean well in relation to me, possibly it’s that I’m not her type (based basically on the guy she’s hooked up with), she might just think enough of me to want to continue with a friendship, just is unsure how the best way / direction to accomplish this would be.

After all, ever since I asked her out she’s been more than accommodating towards me, without giving me the impression that she’s paid to be nice to me, in fact the complete opposite (which has only fuelled my belief that she’d like to take things slowly).

However she must have been aware of my feelings, possibly it’s she’s just that little bit too young to offer me closure, after all she could have just wanted me to get the idea gracefully. Who knows? Maybe I appeared like I had (because I hadn’t pressured her since, other than responding eagerly to her housewarming and gig offers), so she felt it was time to introduce me to her new man….

My feelings however have been certainly shutdown from this development however I must admit I feel obligated to make her aware she could do much better. Regretfully in the passed she has told me she was screwed over by some guy, and it would be a shame for her to continuously make these very same mistakes.

Attention wh0re, she may very well be, but quite a lot of people in the hospitality business are just that, I don’t think she’d pride herself on treating me badly for laughs, but obviously she’s been not interested in entertaining the idea of dating me.

Cheers.

 

[hithard]

Your 100% right…both come from mentioned areas, he isn’t employed and does have that surfer/hippy appearance

The bogon magnet effect.
Surfer/hippy bogon types are pretty good at getting the girls as well(possibly from being raised by single mums).They usually dont shut up and talk really useless $hit, and have really dumb humor(that the girls seem to love), let their intentions be known, and hang around even through that uncomfortable period when everyone else would have left.Sometimes its just because of similar backgrounds, lse or a comfort thing, that these girls end up with these guys.That or pulling cones together.

Yes you can get her still.But the amount of effort and gameplay is making me sick thinking about it.You could have 10 other women for the amount of effort.Stay in the loop if you want to leave her on the backburner.Keep the convos light and fun,but dont give up to much about what your've been doing.Its a hell of a lot of work though I've managed it a few times.Waste of effort for ltr as bogons usually return to the herd, or next alpha bogon.

 

[Ricky]

Actually heres my take.

It's clear this chick likes you but did you ever think of the pressure of it all for her to date a regular? She probably has.

It is almost as if you are a coworker since you are there so much.

Does she date her coworkers?

I'm guessing she sees you as LTR material and not a hookup as well.

Now I would act like nothing is happening but be sure to let her kknow all the fun stuff you do. Just don't invite her

And if she shows up to that gig, cool you may have a chance to escalate. If not **** her