Should I pay

[Backbencher]

Alright, I know this question has been asked often but I'm still not sure about how to go in these situations. Had a first date with a girl, it went great, we kissed at the end of the night and she's obviously into me. The date was a drink and a show. Even if I'm not the old fashioned type and think letting the girl pay for her share actually makes for less pressure, I still paid for everything that first time. Simply cause I felt like it.

Now we're having our second date tomorrow at a rather fancy restaurant. Should I pay this time too? I don't want to give the impression that I pay for everything all the time nor do I want her to feel that I'm "buying" her attention. But then again maybe it's too soon to be so rational about these things. I'd say she's the romantic type. Isn't it a bit cheap to pay when the date is inexpensive and share as soon as it's more pricey? What should I do?

 

[Max Power]

My understanding is paying can be very AFC. Don't reward her for simply hanging out with you.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Simply cause I felt like it.

So tell us, why wouldn't you feel like paying the next time? What's changed?

 

[jessup]

Now we're having our second date tomorrow at a rather fancy restaurant. Should I pay this time too? I don't want to give the impression that I pay for everything all the time nor do I want her to feel that I'm "buying" her attention. But then again maybe it's too soon to be so rational about these things. I'd say she's the romantic type. Isn't it a bit cheap to pay when the date is inexpensive and share as soon as it's more pricey? What should I do?

First of all don't listen to Style and the rest of the "gurus" when they say you shouldn't pay for anything until you have had sex. That selfish mindset will get you nowhere.

The underlying point however is that the relationship is about both of you and thus both of you should contribute to it - when interacting, when in the bedroom and when it comes to money.

Offer to pay for the meal but that she can buy drinks. A good amount of drinking will be the same amount as a meal.

But as a point to note: Style is too narrow minded when he says don't do anything for a woman until you have had sex. That mindset is not only wrong but it stinks of insecurity.

 

[\O/]

If you have the finances to do it, then pay. Don't do it because you want anything from her. Do it because you can and want to. Tell her she can pay next time.

Introducing the habit of paying for everything early in the datinggame can be dangerous though.. She might get too used to it and get spoiled.

Do whatever you feel like doing. If you wanna pay, then fine. Just don't do it to impress, supplicate or to make her behave in a certain way.. That's the whole point behind the "don't pay for her" theories.

 

[Max Power]

Style is too narrow minded when he says don't do anything for a woman until you have had sex. That mindset is not only wrong but it stinks of insecurity.

I myself have paid for my fair share of first dates and second dates etc.

I have yet to try the Style method, but I believe it's not insecure but it shows the HB that you're not like all the other guys and you're diffferent -- not insecure.

 

[jessup]

I myself have paid for my fair share of first dates and second dates etc.

I have yet to try the Style method, but I believe it's not insecure but it shows the HB that you're not like all the other guys and you're diffferent -- not insecure.

It's not Styles method as such, Style just recommends not buying a girl anything until you have done her.

I agree - don't buy her teddy bears or gifts until you have worked out your relationship with her. And yeah ok maybe in certain situations you don't buy her a drink because it makes you look like any other guy.

But in terms of dates and going out, expecting her to pay for everything isn't really the way you want to be working (and of course it is contingent on the situation).

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

First of all don't listen to Style and the rest of the "gurus" when they say you shouldn't pay for anything until you have had sex. That selfish mindset will get you nowhere.

And if you think that paying for dinner will you had better wake up, you're dreaming. What do you expect paying for dinner to get you? Do you think the typical woman is that easy?

The underlying point however is that the relationship is about both of you and thus both of you should contribute to it - when interacting, when in the bedroom and when it comes to money.

We're talking about the first couple of dates. You've already got them in the bedroom he hasn't even qualified her yet.

Offer to pay for the meal but that she can buy drinks. A good amount of drinking will be the same amount as a meal.

And if either of them doesn't drink?

But as a point to note: Style is too narrow minded when he says don't do anything for a woman until you have had sex. That mindset is not only wrong but it stinks of insecurity.

Don't put this all on Style. What really stinks is when guys feel obligated to pay for a date with someone he's just met and hasn't determined whether or not she's worth his time and effort. It stinks of the boring dinner and a movie type date and the insecurity of the guy who's afraid of making his own rules instead of following antiquated, societal norms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHkHrdgDjNY

 

[jessup]

:nono:

Put it this way.

If you believe that by purchasing a drink for a girl is a form of supplication then you are reading too much, not doing enough and and not doing it right.

Buying a drink isn't the supplicating factor - it is what you have done before and after.

And if you believe by sharing a date you are supplicating then you are wrong. As I said, split the cost of the date by drinks and a meal. If she doesn't drink then that is different and it cancels out my original post.

Please don't break down my post, look at options 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and then say that I am wrong because I only looked at option 1.

 

[Max Power]

On buying drinks and supplication

Not to say that every woman you buy a drink for is a drink cruisin hussy, but the general rule is a woman will either be interested in your, not interested in you or indifferent.

If she's intersted in you, buying a drink doesn't matter
If she's not interested in you, buying a drink won't make her like you more
If she's indifferent buying a drink could send off some warning bells in her head saying this guy thinks he can buy me for a ****tail.

I didn't want to believe it either, but I think it's true.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

:nono:

Put it this way.

If you believe that by purchasing a drink for a girl is a form of supplication then you are reading too much, not doing enough and and not doing it right.

Buying a drink isn't the supplicating factor - it is what you have done before and after...

So buying things for people you barely know isn't supplication? So what is it? Is it an attempt to impress her? Anyone with a couple of bucks can do that.

And what is this thing about dinner? What has she done to merit a free meal? Once things are established and the two of you routinely go out, I'm all for taking turns paying each other's way, but this is after it's been established that she is worth your time.

It seems that instead of focusing on learning whether or not the woman is worth your time, guys tend to attempt to impress a woman buy paying for her company. These guys spend so much time trying to impress the woman with things they tend to overlook any issues she may have. This is how guys perpetually end up with the wrong woman; and they've paid for the privilege of being with the wrong woman!

As for breaking down your post, I had to because I asked several questions which you haven't addressed. Point blank, what is paying for the company of a woman going to get you? What benefit is there beyond showing a woman that you hardly know that you're just like the majority of other guys in the world who feel more comfortable buying her interest level than finding out whether or not she's even his type?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...If she's intersted in you, buying a drink doesn't matter
...

So if she's interested and buying the drink doesn't matter, then what is the purpose of buying it?

I'm all for a couple sharing in keeping the relationship vital, it's actually imperative for each to contribute to its growth. What I don't understand is when guys do this with women they hardly know.

What's worse is when they come to a forum like this and complain about all the things they did for the woman and how they thought that the relationship was good; yet she lost interest and ending up leaving him for another guy. It's as if guys gage the interest of a woman by how much stuff the woman allows him to buy her. It's madness.... :crazy:

 

[Max Power]

I should have said .....

If she's interested, buying a drink won't make her like you any more than she already does.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I should have said .....

If she's interested, buying a drink won't make her like you any more than she already does.

Very true. Unfortunately so many guys use buying a woman a drink as an actual opener. Once she accepts he believes that she is obligated to talk to him. She could easily pound down the drink and leave him with a wet napkin. Maybe that's why guys feel that buying dinner is the way to go, at least she'll have to sit with him for a good 45 minutes or so.

I swear I love it when I'm at a club and I'm chatting up a woman and she asks if I'd buy her a drink. I tell her "No thanks, I'm not thirsty." The smart ones(or maybe they're dumb) will shrug it off. The really dumb ones say a little louder "No, I said that I wanted a drink." I reply "Oh, go ahead. I may still be here when you get back." It's a easy way to qualify whether the woman is into you or into getting just trying to get free drinks for the night (and trust me, many try). None the less, it's not a difficult game to play as long as you have the courage to play by your rules.

 

[WaterTiger]

A "Rather Fancy" restaurant on the second date? WHY???? WHY? WHY? WHY?

Second date should be a low-cost lunch at your favorite Chinese place. Why are you guys so eager to take these chicks to expensive places so soon? Why don't you take her on a pic-nic? Or go on a hike or something? Something inexpensive, but FUN. At least untill she proves herself worthy of a classy meal...or save them for birthdays, anniverseries and such.

But to answer your question of who pays...Who ever invites, pays. (Split the check now and you look like a cheap-skate, or broke. Neither impression will get you laid.)

 

[Serialized3]

A "Rather Fancy" restaurant on the second date? WHY???? WHY? WHY? WHY?

Second date should be a low-cost lunch at your favorite Chinese place. Why are you guys so eager to take these chicks to expensive places so soon?

No "99 cents a scoop" places though. :nono:

 

[ConantheLibertarian]

A "Rather Fancy" restaurant on the second date? WHY???? WHY? WHY? WHY?

Second date should be a low-cost lunch at your favorite Chinese place. Why are you guys so eager to take these chicks to expensive places so soon? Why don't you take her on a pic-nic? Or go on a hike or something? Something inexpensive, but FUN. At least untill she proves herself worthy of a classy meal...or save them for birthdays, anniverseries and such.

I agree. The first thing that popped in my head was, why go on first/second dates to places where the whole paying issue comes up? I view expensive meals as an LTR type of thing. Some of my best first few dates with women were mini golf (of course you have to show her proper form ) or some other fun activity, and drive thru. If there's ever a time to be rational about these things in a relationship, it's now. Precedents are being set. Set the precedent of a man who is so awesome, that fast food eaten with you is a 5 star meal.

Francisco is right, if you are treating her to an expensive meal on the second date, it makes you look like you think she is obligated to do something (put out.) Also, it makes it look like you have nothing else to offer except being able to treat her to expensive meals. Here's a hint, let your personality take the meal's place .

 

[Backbencher]

I agree. The first thing that popped in my head was, why go on first/second dates to places where the whole paying issue comes up? I view expensive meals as an LTR type of thing. Some of my best first few dates with women were mini golf (of course you have to show her proper form ) or some other fun activity, and drive thru. If there's ever a time to be rational about these things in a relationship, it's now. Precedents are being set. Set the precedent of a man who is so awesome, that fast food eaten with you is a 5 star meal.

Francisco is right, if you are treating her to an expensive meal on the second date, it makes you look like you think she is obligated to do something (put out.) Also, it makes it look like you have nothing else to offer except being able to treat her to expensive meals. Here's a hint, let your personality take the meal's place .

Well I actually agree with you both except during our first date we ended up talking about this particular dish that a nearby restaurant is reknowed for. Neither of us has tried it yet and we both want to. So when came time to think about a second date idea I obviously thought about this. Then I thought "yeah but it's a bit pricey" but then figured "f..ck it, I want to try it, why not do it in nice company?". Maybe I should've waited, but overthinking sucks and also it is all set now.

 

[Monkey]

Maybe I should've waited...

Waiting and patience are KEY when it comes to women.


Regarding paying - I would wait for the bill to arrive then study her reactions. She *should* offer to pay half of it, but if she doesn't flinch and lets you pay without question then you need to be thinking about the type of girl this is.

 

[ConantheLibertarian]

Well there are no hard and fast rules here. It's what you want to do, and that counts for a lot. I have a set of rules I live by, and early on it's dutch. I lay out my half if it was a decently priced meal, and wait to see how she reacts. Usually they get the hint, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they make a comment, then I spar back with a comment about pre-defined gender roles, and that does the trick . Just get a set of rules you're comfortable with, and stick by them.