Should I date women who have kids

[WestCoaster]

Agree with penkitten

Date who you want. I've dated women with and without kids. At my age, it's more with kids now than without. I judge the person first, but I really wouldn't be impressed with a woman who put her kids way down the ladder of importance, and behind a guy who may or may not workout.

I've seen women date/sleep with guys with their kids in the house and they're not serious about the guy ... it's a good way to mess up kids. They need to be taught right from wrong very early on.

If you enjoy kids and the responsibility that goes with them, date women with kids; if you do not want all that, don't.

But for just DATING and not getting serious, many quality single moms get babysitters and so forth. I've dated plenty of single moms who work the babysitter thing out well to go on dates. But as far as LTRs, I've only had one with a mom (she was hot looking, but a serious basket case mentally). The other LTRs were with no kid women.

* I hate Dr. Laura by the way, but her book on husbands is the best thing she's written. She's very accurate there. (Ever see the nudies of Dr. Laura on the net? She was pretty hot in her younger days. :>)

 

[insomniac]

I've been seeing a divorced woman with two young daughters. From my point of view, so far, she's not unlike any other single woman. Her kids are with their dad on the weekends and that's the only time I've ever seen her. If her kids were around, she wouldn't let me meet them anyway, since she wouldn't want them to get attached. Looking for a provider? Not that I've seen. She always offers to pay half when we're out, and has given me much more than I've given her. Her family is well-off anyway, so that's probably not a concern to her. She seems genuinely into me...maybe even a little too much.

The positive sides are she's much more mature than most 20-something women I've dated. She plays no games, says exactly what she thinks, treats me like a king, plus an unusually high sex drive.

The negative is that I don't see something long-term working out. Normally, I wouldn't even date someone who had kids or was even divorced, but in this case she did all the pursuing and I, for once, dropped my restrictions and decided to go along with whatever happened.

So, for now, it's no different than with any other woman. But what about the future? If it got serious, her kids would come into the picture. I don't know how I would handle this, or if I even could. I warned her initially that this was an issue, and I'm thinking I'll have to bring it up with her again before things get too deep.

Should you avoid women with kids? I don't know. Are you willing to accept both her and her kids long-term? If not, you probably want to steer clear. In my case, the kids have a father who takes them on the weekend and leaves her without responsibility for a couple days a week. Other mothers may not have that benefit.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by NewMan
Give me a break. There is no comparison between taking care of a kid and working a job.

Spoken by someone who not only has never been a full time stay at home care taker of young children.

I have news for you...I've done it and it's not easy. It's the hardest job I've ever had to do AND the most stressful. I've worked rapid rotation 12 1/2 hour shifts on my feet in steel toes on a concrete floor lifting about 35-40 lbs repeatedly all shift long while operating manufacturing machines and keeping the materials stocked. THAT was a very physically demanding job. It was also EASIER than staying at home all day long with young children.

I wonder how many mother (and fathers) put their kid in front of the DVD player for 8 hrs. a day these days.

You clearly aren't familiar with kids if you actually think little kids would even sit in front of a tv for that long. Young kids have a short attention span for starters. They also tend to get into things and make one hell of a huge mess if not watched closely. My youngest son managed to get outside and into the car and get it running and in drive at 2 years old in the amount of time it took me to go pee. You have NO idea how much work it is to raise kids and essentially have to be the one who takes care of them virtually 24/7.

You get vacations. you get a lunch break. and you get paid (thanks Dad).

What vacations? Listen to your own attitude. Poor Dad has worked all day...he's not going to take care of the kids to give Mom a break. Of course, she's put in just as many hours as Dad has. And often time Dad sits at a desk all day and doesn't physically exert himself at all while she's literally running around trying to keep the little ones from tearing the house apart, hurting themselves or ruining things. Sorry...but Dad earning money to pay the bills isn't payment. It's his responsibility to do that. If the woman is working outside of the home too it's her responsibility as well. Men typically don't value or appreciate a woman who stays home to care for her children. You just showed that by acting like all the stay at home Mom does is sit on her butt all day. I'm sure you expect that any woman you marry or are involved with would appreciate and value you and your contributions. So why do you hold yourself to different standards?

Don't think to compare sitting on the sofa and stuffing your face with chips even remotely compares to working a job.

Oh yes...here we go again. You hold traditional stay at home mothers in contempt. You assume they sit on their ass all day. You are clueless.

As we see these days - anyone can raise a kid (and most people don't do a good job of it) - but not many people can hold down a good job.

Oh please. Anyone can get and keep a good job. It's easy. Raising kids to be responsible, well adjusted adults is far harder and much more important in the grand scheme of things.

Men are willing to share their life. Men are more than willing to give into the the constant bleeting of a woman to get married and have kids. What they are NOT prepared to do, is to give up sex for it. It will change, for sure - and that is expected - but there are far to many horror stories (and I have friends who live it day to day) - where the sex becomes a monthly ritual.

Based on what I read here every day I have formed the opinion that the vast majority of men aren't willing to give much of anything in a relationship. They only want to take. I can count men I have known in my life who genuinely want to give as much as they want to take on one hand.

I even have one friend who's wife turned the bedroom into a community bed. He was pretty much forced to sleep in the spare room and mother and baby took over the bed. He subsequently left her - after months and months of trying to get her to re-evaluate. She did pretty quickly after he stopped coming home.

A lot of new mothers bring their babies into their bed...especially if they are nursing. It makes 2 o'clock feedings much easier and allows you to catch a little extra and much needed sleep. If that's what she was doing her husband should have cared about her getting enough sleep to be okay with that. Since when is a man's need for sex any more important than the woman's need for more than 2 or 3 hours of sleep?

Women should know where their priorities are. Why do you think there are so many single mothers? Guys are tired of it. Going months on end without sex. Perhaps if women thought about their men once in a while we'd be much better off.

I hate to break it to you...but men's priorities nowadays are no better than women's. Society in general is selfish and don't give a rat's ass about anyone but themselves. Oh...and none of the single mothers I know were left by their husbands. They were the ones to leave the man. If guys are getting tired of anything it must be getting left because in my experience it's the women who get tired of it and leave the guys.

If I'm hungry I'm going to eat. If I'm not eating at home - I'm going to find someone who will feed me.

If a woman needs to feel emotional closeness she will seek it out. If her significant other isn't fulfilling those needs it's no wonder she looks for it in her children.

Your argument works two ways just as it takes TWO people to make or break a relationship. Healthy couples enjoy having sex with each other. If one partner doesn't want sex THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE RELATIONSHIP. That is all...

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by insomniac
I've been seeing a divorced woman with two young daughters. From my point of view, so far, she's not unlike any other single woman. Her kids are with their dad on the weekends and that's the only time I've ever seen her. If her kids were around, she wouldn't let me meet them anyway, since she wouldn't want them to get attached. Looking for a provider? Not that I've seen. She always offers to pay half when we're out, and has given me much more than I've given her. Her family is well-off anyway, so that's probably not a concern to her. She seems genuinely into me...maybe even a little too much.

The positive sides are she's much more mature than most 20-something women I've dated. She plays no games, says exactly what she thinks, treats me like a king, plus an unusually high sex drive.

The negative is that I don't see something long-term working out. Normally, I wouldn't even date someone who had kids or was even divorced, but in this case she did all the pursuing and I, for once, dropped my restrictions and decided to go along with whatever happened.

So, for now, it's no different than with any other woman. But what about the future? If it got serious, her kids would come into the picture. I don't know how I would handle this, or if I even could. I warned her initially that this was an issue, and I'm thinking I'll have to bring it up with her again before things get too deep.

Should you avoid women with kids? I don't know. Are you willing to accept both her and her kids long-term? If not, you probably want to steer clear. In my case, the kids have a father who takes them on the weekend and leaves her without responsibility for a couple days a week. Other mothers may not have that benefit.

Most single mothers are essentially just like the woman you are seeing. It's men who assume that single mothers want a new father for their kids or someone to provide for them. Single mothers who are really like those stereotypes are rare. Single mothers ARE much more mature and don't play games. You can have a far better LTR with a single mom than you can a single with no kids woman.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I just got back from a four and a half hour date in a coffee house with a single mother I met online. D@mn, do 'ya think I broke enough rules from DJ Bible???

Anyway, of course I had to bring up the subject of this thread. She laughed hysterical because she has been teaching many of her girlfriends about focusing on their needs along with those of their boyfriend's; of course not forgetting their children but not as their solitary focus.

What was interesting about this woman was that she's a hot looking (hb9), raven haired, 5'10 inch singer in a rock band who also sells real estate. She told me that her friends wonder how she does so much, can raise a very well adjusted 10 year old daughter and look like a cross between Natalie Merchant and Liv Tyler (yeah, I couldn't believe that she lives in the land of the Nordic Snow Cows). She said it was because she defines herself as a sexy, smart, independent singer and real estate agent who is also a mother. She makes a point of not defining herself as primarily just a mother.

So am I going to see her again? Absolutely, I never said that guys shouldn't date single mothers, they should just be selective. And come on, she's 37, looks like Liv Tyler and tells me that I should see her in a leather miniskirt. Hmmm, I think I'll take her up on her offer.

 

[Wyldfire]

Francisco...putting your kids first is not the same thing as focusing exclusively on your kids. Those are two entirely different things. Putting your kids first is just attending to their needs before attending to the other things you need to attend to. Occassionally in order to meet the needs of your kids you have to focus on yourself first or whatever.

What you describe discussing on your date isn't putting your kids first...that's suffocating and living through your children instead of having your own life. That's a whole different situation entirely.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Unfortunately, Single mothers are stereotyped for a good reason. The guy who knocked her up and dumped her for the 18 year old down the street carries on to the next guy whom she catches in her talons.

I say this from experience with my, now, ex-wife. She had a 2 year old when I met her and, in my ****eyed optimism, thought I could turn the 'Ho into a housewife. So I believed the fairytale for awhile until she started changing her looks and going out with the skanks from work on weekends leaving me to babysit the li'l girl.

Blah, blah, blah and woe is me and that nonsense aside, I came to find out some 23 year old redneck from Oklahoma was cluttering up her butter gutter while I'm playing devoted husband!

So I did what any right-minded guy would do to regain his self worth and dignity. I fired hot clam chowder down her throat then filed for divorce.

My point is, Single mothers (Mother being only half a word for them ) want a guy to watch thier kid so they can go out and try and live the life they missed while raising a child.

Here's to me never getting married again,
Karma

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by KarmaSutra
Unfortunately, Single mothers are stereotyped for a good reason. The guy who knocked her up and dumped her for the 18 year old down the street carries on to the next guy whom she catches in her talons.

I say this from experience with my, now, ex-wife. She had a 2 year old when I met her and, in my ****eyed optimism, thought I could turn the 'Ho into a housewife. So I believed the fairytale for awhile until she started changing her looks and going out with the skanks from work on weekends leaving me to babysit the li'l girl.

Blah, blah, blah and woe is me and that nonsense aside, I came to find out some 23 year old redneck from Oklahoma was cluttering up her butter gutter while I'm playing devoted husband!

So I did what any right-minded guy would do to regain his self worth and dignity. I fired hot clam chowder down her throat then filed for divorce.

My point is, Single mothers (Mother being only half a word for them ) want a guy to watch thier kid so they can go out and try and live the life they missed while raising a child.

Here's to me never getting married again,
Karma

I've only known one single mother who was like that. All the other single Mom's who knew her(including myself) thought she was trash. If you meet a single mother at a bar and have seen her there frequently that should be a red flag under most circumstances. If she doesn't get drunk and doesn't act like a hooch then being out a lot doesn't necessarily mean she's bad news. But usually, if a woman spends a lot of time drinking and acting like a sperm bank, she's usually slvtty.

MOST single mothers aren't out hitting the bars. You can find them at the laundrymat, grocery store, parks and the like.

Because most of you guys look for women at bars and clubs it's really no wonder so many of you have such bad luck and always seem to find so many trashy women. Perhaps if you stopped trolling the places where trashy women hang out you all might fare a bit better.

One more thing...why the hell did you agree to babysit while she went out? You both should have gone out and she should have found a babysitter. The fact that she didn't want to go out WITH you should have been a huge red flag. You didn't behave like a man and was attracted to a hooch with no self respect. Don't blame all single mothers for that...

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by ( . )( . )
Ahh the tired old scapegoat used as an excuse. "only trashy women go to bars and clubs, thats why you all cant see the REALLY "good" ones" I'll bet the farm youve been to a bar or club since you squeezed out a kid, so your trash aswell I take it? But that doesnt count right?

More nonsensical drivel from Wyldfire, that crap might fly in the general discussion but try and keep it to a minimum here eh.



Holy......finally a solid piece of advice and no dancing around the grey area to make an illogical non point.

Do you ever read and process a post in it's entirety?

Christ...

I said IF a woman is always hanging out in bars drinking and acting like a ho-bag then that should be a good indicator that she IS a drunk ho-bag. I also said that there are some women who go out and don't act that way. And I'm not talking about someone who goes out every Friday or Saturday night. I'm talking about someone who is at the bar 2-7 days a week EVERY week.

As for myself, I've never been a "barfly". I almost never drink and never act like a ho-bag. Due to the fact that I don't really drink if I did go to a bar it was usually to drive for friends so they didn't drive drunk. On the rare times I go to bars now it's always karaoke bars...and I go only to sing and listen to other people sing. I drink water, juice or soda and don't dress like a hooch.

 

[diditall4thenookie]

NO.

 

[KarmaSutra]

I feel I must retort and clear up a couple of things.

1. The ex-wife, as sh1tty as she was, is no barfly. I did not meet her in a bar. We met at a grocery store (There's the first bullet hole in you theory).

2. Mother (Only being half a word for them) Fvcker being the latter half.


I'm a schooled guy and I've lived in a lot of places in this great country of ours, as well as, outside of it. I can tell you that the only good women ( For the most part ) are our Mothers and Grandmothers.

Pretty much every other single mother (those generally ranging in the 18 to 28 year range ) I wouldn't give two squirts of piss or a crusty booger.

I suppose Wyldfire, you believe you're the exception . . .


Yeah.Sure.


Karma

 

[KarmaSutra]

Oh, Hooray for staunch guys like ( . ) ( . ) and myself for not placating to the wanton egocentric drawls of women looking for babysitters with wallets.


Karma

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by KarmaSutra
I feel I must retort and clear up a couple of things.

1. The ex-wife, as sh1tty as she was, is no barfly. I did not meet her in a bar. We met at a grocery store (There's the first bullet hole in you theory).

2. Mother (Only being half a word for them) Fvcker being the latter half.


I'm a schooled guy and I've lived in a lot of places in this great country of ours, as well as, outside of it. I can tell you that the only good women ( For the most part ) are our Mothers and Grandmothers.

Pretty much every other single mother (those generally ranging in the 18 to 28 year range ) I wouldn't give two squirts of piss or a crusty booger.

I suppose Wyldfire, you believe you're the exception . . .


Yeah.Sure.


Karma

I know many single mothers and as I said before...only one of them behaved in the way you describe your ex behaving.

If you married someone who had so little respect for you that she used you as a built in babysitter so she could go out and screw around with other men it begs the question...What the hell did you see in this woman in the first place and why on earth did you get married so quickly as to not know how she behaved?

You know...when I was 18 years old I married an abusive drunk. I bear equal responsibility for the suffering I endured over that 10 year marriage. I was an idiot and made a very poor choice. Yeah, I was young and unexperienced and he did a good job faking the type of person he was...but looking back, there WERE warning signs.

Now, you can blame your ex until the cows come home if that floats your boat...but when push comes to shove...YOU CHOSE HER! It's just as much your fault what you went through as it was her.

The question is this...did you learn anything from that experience? I'm guessing that you didn't because nowhere in your posts about her do you take responsibility for being an idiot to marry her in the first place. Instead, you collectively judge and blame single mothers. Sorry buddy...but that is a cop out. We all make mistakes sometimes...but very few of us actually acknowledge and own those mistakes. When you don't do that you tend to make the same mistakes over and over again. I'm guessing that you are probably still attracted to women who treat you like crap.

Stop hating on single mothers as a way to avoid taking responsibility for your poor choice in partners.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by KarmaSutra
Oh, Hooray for staunch guys like ( . ) ( . ) and myself for not placating to the wanton egocentric drawls of women looking for babysitters with wallets.


Karma

You aren't protecting yourself against anything. All you're doing is blaming an entire group of women for your own poor judgement and choices. You, sir, are passing the buck and making excuses for a very clear and foolish mistake on YOUR part. It's easy to blame others for our mistakes in life...but it takes real maturity and wisdom to hold ourselves accountable and learn from those mistakes. You're embracing victimhood and that serves no useful purpose in life.

 

[Wyldfire]

I never said I didn't like staying at home with my kids when they were little. I only said it was much more demanding, harder and I was much more exhasuted and tired staying at home with the kids than I was working a very physically demanding job on 12 1/2 hour shifts.

Although my ex was a miserable dink...when the kids were little he DID try to help out and spend time with them to give me a break. He has psychological issues...Borderline Personality Disorder and an addictive personality. That's clearly NOT what we are talking about here. My experiences with my ex were not typical by any stretch of the imagination. And no, I'm not posting based on my own experience. I'm posting what I see in other people.

Now...single mothers get ragged on non-stop on this site...and the vast majority of it comes from stereotypes that are way of base. Sure, there are a few single mothers who are looking for a guy to take care of her kids and her...but you know what...if that same woman had no children she would STILL be looking for someone to take care of her that she could use. A user/gold-digger is a user/gold-digger regardless of whether or not they have children. Avoiding women with children will NOT protect you from these kinds of women because there are just as many, if not more, of those kinds of women without kids as there are with.

In reality, most single mothers are NOT looking for a replacement father or someone to take care of her and her kid/s. Single mothers are looking for the same things any other woman is looking for...
companionship and someone for HER to spend time with romantically. All most single mothers want is for the guy to like, respect and be friends with her kids. That's all I ever want. My kids are my responsibility, not the responsibility of any man I may get involved with. I'd expect the man and the kids to respect each other and treat each other as such and I'd hope they'd genuinely like each other. The man would also have to accept that there are times when the needs of the kids will need to be attended to before his can be...but he'd come right after them. Why in this order? Because those kids are my first responsibility and they didn't choose for me to bring them into the world. I made that choice and in doing so I signed on for that responsibility. The man and I would have both had a choice in entering into a relationship...the kids did not. So...the kids must come first in the event that I have to prioritize. It doesn't happen often, but the man has to respect that and wait his turn (which I make sure does come) or he can find someone else. That's not saying the man's needs aren't just as important as the kids' needs are...because they are equally as important. It's simply saying that my first responsibility is to those kids and THEN to the man.

Bottom line...the men who have had bad experiences with single mothers tend to have bad experiences with women in general. It has very little to do with the women and more to do with what that man is attracted to and the patterns he runs.

The ONLY justifiable and honest arguments about whether or not to date a single mother are the following:

1) You really dislike children.
2) You are concerned about getting attached to the children and the relationship not working out and missing the kids and them missing you.
3) Concerns about difficult exes and how the woman handles them.

If a guy lists those reasons for refusing to date single mothers I agree with them 100%. However, when guys use stereotypes, past experiences from their own poor choices or some other half-baked nonsense I call the BS exactly what it is.

 

[MackJr]

Wyldfire is justbeing defensive because she's in that position.

However, the value of a woman with kids is lower than the value of a woman without them. It has nothing to do with a puritanical virginity either, its that you

1) don't get the chance to start your own family,
2) have to deal with her time management issues w/ child care.
3) have to deal with the personalities of the kids (especially older)
4) have to realize that if she'd marry someone and divorce them, even with kids, then she'd do the same to you.

And if she's especially young or was young when she had the kids, that's an indicator of some serious maturity issues.

Plain and simple, a woman with children is like a used car. You're knowingly accepting some dings if you want to have one.

40+ year-old probably don't have much of a choice in the matter, but if you do, I'd pick a childless woman 70% of the time.

 

[NewMan]

I have news for you...I've done it and it's not easy. It's the hardest job I've ever had to do AND the most stressful. I've worked rapid rotation 12 1/2 hour shifts on my feet in steel toes on a concrete floor lifting about 35-40 lbs repeatedly all shift long while operating manufacturing machines and keeping the materials stocked. THAT was a very physically demanding job. It was also EASIER than staying at home all day long with young children.

Give me a break. This is typical women BS. Try and be responsibile for a $100 million contract - with 10 guys working under you, a Senior VP breathing down your neck every second of the day - and then tell me about stress and pressure of a job. You can't turn that off when you go home - your "ON" 24 hours a day. But women don't give a crap about that - because feeding a baby and nursing them to sleep, running the vaccum, washing the dishes and throwing the clothes in the washing machine is a pressure job.

You clearly aren't familiar with kids if you actually think little kids would even sit in front of a tv for that long. Young kids have a short attention span for starters. They also tend to get into things and make one hell of a huge mess if not watched closely. My youngest son managed to get outside and into the car and get it running and in drive at 2 years old in the amount of time it took me to go pee. You have NO idea how much work it is to raise kids and essentially have to be the one who takes care of them virtually 24/7.

No I am.

I have yet to meet a kid who does not sit down and watch Finding Nemo, Toy Story, or Monsters all the way through. There are probably exceptions - but they are that.

Again typical of a woman - they have the hardest job.

What vacations? Listen to your own attitude. Poor Dad has worked all day...he's not going to take care of the kids to give Mom a break. Of course, she's put in just as many hours as Dad has. And often time Dad sits at a desk all day and doesn't physically exert himself at all while she's literally running around trying to keep the little ones from tearing the house apart, hurting themselves or ruining things. Sorry...but Dad earning money to pay the bills isn't payment. It's his responsibility to do that. If the woman is working outside of the home too it's her responsibility as well. Men typically don't value or appreciate a woman who stays home to care for her children. You just showed that by acting like all the stay at home Mom does is sit on her butt all day. I'm sure you expect that any woman you marry or are involved with would appreciate and value you and your contributions. So why do you hold yourself to different standards?

You need to stop jumping to conclusions. You need to re-read YOUr original statement and YOUR attitude.

Let me remind you:

With feedings every 4 hours, new moms don't get enough sleep. When a person doesn't get enough sleep they are tired. Sex is the last thing on their minds because they are already exhausted when they start their day from lack of sleep. If the new father helps and is patient with the changes in his relationship and takes an active role in helping and becoming a family instead of just a couple with a baby it makes a world of difference. Those changes are temporary IF the husband chooses to embrace being a family instead of resenting the changes. If the man sulks, resents and is jealous and doesn't take an active role in caring for and raising the baby he and his wife start to grow in different directions shortly after the birth. It sounds like this is what happened to you to some extent. Also, if the husband keeps busting his wife's chops for not giving him any attention when she is exhausted, suffering from sleep depravation and feels like her husband is jealous of her caring for the baby that needs her to take care of all of it's needs...she is going to resent you and isn't going to want to be intimate with you.

this is YOUR pitty party.


Women need to start taking care of their men - and it's obviopus from the divorce rate that to a certain extent that is not happening.

Like usual, Women just b#tch and Moan about their situations - how tough a job it is, lack of sleep, stress etc. etc. etc. It's endless.

If women are not capable of tking care of their men and children - then they to to live with the consequences. That's just the way it is. Women want a family, but can't stop complaining about it when they get it. Put up or shut up.

You hold traditional stay at home mothers in contempt.

Nope. I hold single mothers in contempt. I have much respect for stay at home mothers - who take care of their business. I hold in contempt mothers who b#tch and complain about their situation - and those who do not take care of their business. Dad's take care of their business with little complaint - mothers should do the same.

Oh please. Anyone can get and keep a good job. It's easy. Raising kids to be responsible, well adjusted adults is far harder and much more important in the grand scheme of things.

You've obviously never had a good job.

Here you ago again degrading Dad's who put the roof over their families head and food on the table. Your job is more important - Whoa is me.

Based on what I read here every day I have formed the opinion that the vast majority of men aren't willing to give much of anything in a relationship

There are exceptions to every rule - and there's a reason why you read that here - it's because most guys here have been fvcked over by said women.

Men give up more than women in a relationship. Their goals and passions are one.

A lot of new mothers bring their babies into their bed...especially if they are nursing. It makes 2 o'clock feedings much easier and allows you to catch a little extra and much needed sleep. If that's what she was doing her husband should have cared about her getting enough sleep to be okay with that. Since when is a man's need for sex any more important than the woman's need for more than 2 or 3 hours of sleep?

See - again it's all about the woman isn't it.

Forget about the fact that the reason she can stay at home - live in a home, afford to have children is the fact that he works his a## of and brings home the money to allow that. But you don't give a cr#p aout that. It's all about WOMEN.

It's all he's asking to to be able to go to bed at night with his wife - to get laid once in a while - he would have settled for maintenance sex 1 per week - but no, it's her and the baby first and foremost.

Men are more than willing to do their fair share - but if women are cutting off their man - then they can expect to reap what they plant.

and none of the single mothers I know were left by their husbands. They were the ones to leave the man.

and who picked those men? who opened their legs for them - even though the MAJORITY - new what they were getting into?

You talk about putting your kids first, but women very easily walk away from men - and what happens to the kids then?

You want to talk about selfish - women are selfish. Often having kids out of wedlock. Having kids with a guy she KNOWS is wrong. Don't tell me women put their kids first - they put THEMSELVES first. Because if they put their kids first they wouldn't be single mothers - they wouldn't be leavign the fathers

(NOTE there are always exceptions - abusive relationship etc. are exceptions)

Your argument works two ways just as it takes TWO people to make or break a relationship. Healthy couples enjoy having sex with each other. If one partner doesn't want sex THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE RELATIONSHIP. That is all...

Again - if a relationship is not working after a baby - it was not working BEFORE. she spread her legs before the kid - but will not after? that BS.

Women need to wake up.

If they are so concerned with their kids, they to to think about that before opening their legs.

that's all I have to say on the matter.

Guys,

Buyer beware.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by MackJr
Wyldfire is justbeing defensive because she's in that position.

However, the value of a woman with kids is lower than the value of a woman without them. It has nothing to do with a puritanical virginity either, its that you

1) don't get the chance to start your own family,
2) have to deal with her time management issues w/ child care.
3) have to deal with the personalities of the kids (especially older)
4) have to realize that if she'd marry someone and divorce them, even with kids, then she'd do the same to you.

And if she's especially young or was young when she had the kids, that's an indicator of some serious maturity issues.

Plain and simple, a woman with children is like a used car. You're knowingly accepting some dings if you want to have one.

40+ year-old probably don't have much of a choice in the matter, but if you do, I'd pick a childless woman 70% of the time.

It's not really defensiveness so much as it is being rather offended. Most of the nonsense being posted on this site about single mothers isn't even about single mothers. It's nothing more than a guy making a poor choice and getting involved with women who behave badly and are selfish. Those character defects have NOTHING to do with being a single parent.

Oh...and just because a woman has a child before you get with her it doesn't mean she can't also have a child with you if you really want one. Having one child is a pretty good indicator of fertility, afterall. Single mothers are quite adept at handling child care. They get used to that out of necessity. If a woman divorces a man that abuses her or cheats on her she's justified in doing so. It happens. Refusing to date someone simply because they are divorced is silly. Many people who divorce do so for good reason and should be looked at on a case by case basis.

Now, the one thing you DID list that is a justifiable concern is dealing with older kids who might resent you or be unruly. I've been lucky in that respect because aside from the occasional stupid teenage boy stunt, I have really good kids. However, there are plenty of single mothers who aren't as fortunate as I am in that regard. But again...if the woman lets her kids run out of control and isn't doing all she can to raise them right it's not the fault of the kids and the problem isn't simply that she has kids. The problem is that she's too selfish or lazy to take responsibility for her kids. Those are the ones looking for someone else to take care of them and their kids.

Maturity level has very little to do with the age a person is when they have a child. In fact, for most girls...having a child young leads them to become far more mature than their childless counterparts.

My view on this issue is that you don't ever judge anyone based on whether or not they have kids, have been divorced, didn't go to college, or whatever else people use to stereotype others. If you meet someone and you like them and they seem to have their stuff together and you want to date them then just date them.

 

[WestCoaster]

Date who you want

I would agree with Wyldfire on a lot of this. But fellas, date who you want. If you meet a great gal with a kid or kids, don't close the door completely; you may choose a woman who turns out to be a complete b-tch ... trust me on this from personal experience (not marrying but dating), and from my friends, who married women without kids who have turned out to be awful; while some of my friends married women with a kid or kids, who turned out to be great.

It's all about compatibility, whether the man and the woman get along. If you can't handle dating a woman with kids, don't do it; but I warn you pie-in-the-sky guys out there: many, many, many women without kids turn out to be evil women down the road. You never know ...

And many, many, many women with kids are great people and make awesome wives.

My theory is don't close the door on your options. In the end, you really don't know what you're getting. I've dated wound-up single women who put more self-imposed stresses on their lives than women with the real stresses of raising a child.

It's all about compatibility and chemistry and if the woman is a good person or not.

* Note, a little off-topic here: 99 percent of PUA's I've met in this world turn out to be married AFCs ... so work on your inner game first and worry about the dynamics of your gf/wives later.

 

[Desdinova]

I felt the need to put my two cents in...

It's not a great combination when a single guy with no kids dates a woman with kids. The single guy has much more free time, can be more spontaneous, and has an incredibly flexible schedule. He moves fast through life. A woman with kids has to work not only on her and her kids' schedule, but they have to work on other people's schedules (ie babysitters). She cannot move fast through life, she needs to take steps before having the free time available to date.

Men with kids could do very well with women who also have kids. They're both moving through life at the same pace, and hell, they can split for a babysitter! They both know the trials that can occur from having kids which makes them even more compatible.