Should I bail before im in too deep??

[bunjy]

Met this HB8, 4 months ago, started dating her. Seeing her about once a week. She lives three towns away so kinda long distance (about 50 miles). We've always got on really well and had lots in common and during these past few months have established some sort of connection. We txt daily, call each other regularly and see each other once a week. She mentioned becoming exclusive a few weeks ago and I agreed so for all intents and purposes she is my GF now. But theres a few things Im not sure about and could do with some advice on.

Firstly, shes an Attention *****. Straight up, no doubt about it. She has plenty of orbiters, keeps all her exes around and generally seeks validation from guys as often as possible. Now I can deal with this and I guess the reason shes drifted towards me is because Ive been fairly nonchalant towards her blatant AWing and certainly not shown her the interest shes probably used to. Its fair to say shes ended up chasing me after me initially showing some interest.

Secondly, Ive caught her telling lies. Sure its only little white lies but lies non the less. Shes been sloppy and done silly things like post on Twitter that shes in some awesome nightclub when I know for a fact shes sitting at a friends house etc. Seems to be an attention thing. Ive have mentioned about this sort of thing (not called her out, just in a casual way) and shes given me some wishy washy excuse story. Ive always maintained a blase attitude towards her though so not shown any suspicion or annoyance.

Thirdly, as mentioned earlier she keeps all her exes around. This is the biggest red flag for me. She has a 'best friend' who is guy. Shes always maintained hes just a friend but by looking through some of her twitter postings from 8 months ago it seems they where indeed a couple (references to him as her boyfriend etc). Theres no way I can be sure but she spends a hell of a lot of time with this dude, like 5 nights a week hanging out with him. I did suspect at one point he was still her boyfriend but will never know as she doesnt live locally to me. I do know their mutual friends know about me as Ive met a couple of them so seems likely if I was her side guy she wouldnt be blatantly telling her her friends about me (they are this dudes friends too).

From what I can tell she had very few genuine female friends (classic AW) and it seems her only real guy friends are exes, she has another ex she hangs out with too.

I think its worth mentioning at this point Im sure she tries to make me jealous. For whatever reason we had a conversation about jealousy and she mentioned how I 'dont seem the jealous type' (Im not at all). Im generally pretty indifferent towards womens attempt to make me jealous and show Ive got no time for such things. I do think on some level her telling me about hanging out with this guy is her attempt at subtle jealousy.

So I guess what Im saying is, should I bail?? Im at a point in which even though I feel a degree of attachment to her I can still walk away. I mean sure this all sounds pretty bad but there is plenty of good. We have awesome sex, great conversation and do get on really well. She puts in plenty of effort keeping in touch with me and arranging dates etc. On the other hand, all of the above is making me suspicious and I dont want to end up 6 months down the road in a messy situation. Welll??

 

[hithard]

You really want to make that much effort for a hb4.
Do you have any other women in your field of vision, or is this as good as it gets?

 

[bunjy]

You really want to make that much effort for a hb4.
Do you have any other women in your field of vision, or is this as good as it gets?

Sorry man, my mistake. I meant to say Id met HB8, 4 months ago.

Theres always some women in the field of vision but I confess at this point I have established some sort of connection with this particular chick. Mainly due to our commonalities.

I do kinda feel Ive played this the right way, been generally nonchalant, break her back all the time, shes stepped up and chased, Ive not shown any jealousy, been a challenge etc. Shes certainly one of those chicks that would tear apart the less experiences dude and has the potential to cause all sorts of anguish. I prefer to just pay no attention to all that nonsense. Seems to be spurring her onto me. Shes certainly showing more interest than me.

I guess what Im saying is that Ive kept my head level enough to be able to bail if I have to but not entirely sure it would be the best option. Im getting great sex, plenty of attention from her and generally having a good time. Im just cautious about getting any deeper.

 

[hithard]

Yeah, there are a lot of red flags and shi.t tests. You can try getting her to invest in you a lot more, to the point that she becomes a lot more attached and the orbiters fade out. The problem is you can never wipe clean her true nature. You can gloss over that shi.t but eventually that stink comes out. Generally when you are in balls deep and head over heels too. Problems always start when you are at your weakest emotionally, so be warned.
The no problem solution is to ditch.
The solution that still involves sex and a slight degree of emotional risk is to plate her up and find the next girl.

 

[grayclif]

Good of you to wait for her to ask for exclusivity however if you knew she had so many orbiters why did you accept. I think that would have been the perfect time to establish how things were gonna go.

Also, I leave people I am dating off my social media (except Whatsspp). Not too interested in them snooping in my past or me feeling the urge to snoop into theirs.

AW's make great FWB. I think you should leave it there.

 

[bunjy]

Yeah, there are a lot of red flags and shi.t tests. You can try getting her to invest in you a lot more, to the point that she becomes a lot more attached and the orbiters fade out. The problem is you can never wipe clean her true nature. You can gloss over that shi.t but eventually that stink comes out. Generally when you are in balls deep and head over heels too. Problems always start when you are at your weakest emotionally, so be warned.
The no problem solution is to ditch.
The solution that still involves sex and a slight degree of emotional risk is to plate her up and find the next girl.

This is what concerns me. Even though Ive have kept my emotions in check theres still red flags and **** tests going on that if I was head over heels would be causing me all sorts of grief.

Agreed on the investment point but its difficult as we essentially have a long distance relationship, she does at this point invest a fair bit of effort into our relationship insofar as calling/texting. I tend to hang back and let her come to me in this sense, I rarely call her and usually will wait for her to text me first etc. Im pretty sure some chicks would moan I dont make enough effort lol. I think with us only seeing each other once a week she feels its ok to keep the orbiters around as Im not around. TBH Im not really bothered about the orbiters as its fairly obvious shes interested in me and Im the one screwing her every weekend, by not showing any interest/jealousy/anger at the orbiter situation It seems to have got her attention. Her numerous attempts at jealousy have been completely ignored and Ive not flinched at her tests and nonsense.

I guess maybe getting her to invest more would be a good idea.

 

[bunjy]

Break up ASAP, these ppl cannot be tamed. Attention wh0res are not a term of art for girls that are loyal but somehow also need lots of male validation, they are just wh0res that crave attention too. You are not the special snowflake that can somehow tame this psychologically disturbed wild horse with game and being nonchalant as if you're the first to do it.

Indeed. Ive dated AW before and know how it goes. Thats kinda my point really, Im totally aware of the situation and that she obviously has male attention issues hence my nonchalance isnt actually 'game' its my genuine feeling. Its not some attempt to tame her or just be cool, I am genuinely 'meh' about it all although obviosly I enjoy the sex and attention from a smoking hot chick. There is something there between us but I kinda feel all this AW nonsense will stop anything from ever really developing. And yes, I know she wont change.

Also why Im asking should I bail now or carry it on.

 

[logicallefty]

The others are right there are too many red flags. First, I would give your emotional feelings for her an enema and flush that right out or you are headed for disaster. Flush out any thoughts of a long term future.. Then pull away by not being so available to her. Become "busy".. Start staffing your bull pin with other potentials. Then see if your GF comes after you or if she backs off. If she comes after you step back in, but do it with shields at max. All guards up.. If she doesn't, end the relationship and say "I have been really busy and I know you have too. It is clear to me that this isn't the right time for us to have a relationship. Perhaps when things slow down for us both in the future we may pick it up again"...

 

[GS750]

Sh*tty situation, but I agree with Pairs. Very unlikely that you'll be the guy who will get this AW to drop all of her orbiters and focus solely on you. When it comes to a bona fide AW, attention is like a drug to them. I've said it before but I'll repeat it...social media has only made these creatures worse and given them a platform for their attention seeking. You will not change her. Actually, it will only get worse. No point in trying to talk to her about it because she will get defensive and use the fact that you don't like it to her advantage when she wants to make you jealous or make you angry. The lying that she does ties into the constant need for attention/validation which won't get better with time. Keeping in touch with all of her exes is a safety net thing that she will tell you "we're just friends". Yeah right, until you do something to make her angry and guess where she goes to vent and complain about it. To one of her male "friends", who will no doubt badmouth you and do his best to "comfort" her. When a time comes that you are too busy to spend time with her or can't give her the amount of attention that she requires, she will do the same. You know what you need to do here. Abort.

 

[bunjy]

The others are right there are too many red flags. First, I would give your emotional feelings for her an enema and flush that right out or you are headed for disaster. Flush out any thoughts of a long term future.. Then pull away by not being so available to her. Become "busy".. Start staffing your bull pin with other potentials. Then see if your GF comes after you or if she backs off. If she comes after you step back in, but do it with shields at max. All guards up.. If she doesn't, end the relationship and say "I have been really busy and I know you have too. It is clear to me that this isn't the right time for us to have a relationship. Perhaps when things slow down for us both in the future we may pick it up again"...

Good advice. I do know there are too many red flags. I guess because I have been unlucky enough to have a serious relationship with a grade A AW I easily recognised the traits (they're remarkably similar) so went in with my guard right up, it still is high really. Paradoxically I think this is what has drawn her to me. The fact she keeps exes says to me shes obviously the one doing the ditching and has her cake.

I guess my concern is that although Im in a position now in which my head in is check Im concerned if I take it further it will be increasingly more difficult to keep emotions level. She is working hard to keep me though.

Im pretty sure if I backed away she will certainly come running.

 

[exhausted]

Met this HB8, 4 months ago, started dating her. Seeing her about once a week. She lives three towns away so kinda long distance (about 50 miles). We've always got on really well and had lots in common and during these past few months have established some sort of connection. We txt daily, call each other regularly and see each other once a week. She mentioned becoming exclusive a few weeks ago and I agreed so for all intents and purposes she is my GF now. But theres a few things Im not sure about and could do with some advice on.

Firstly, shes an Attention *****. Straight up, no doubt about it. She has plenty of orbiters, keeps all her exes around and generally seeks validation from guys as often as possible. Now I can deal with this and I guess the reason shes drifted towards me is because Ive been fairly nonchalant towards her blatant AWing and certainly not shown her the interest shes probably used to. Its fair to say shes ended up chasing me after me initially showing some interest.

Secondly, Ive caught her telling lies. Sure its only little white lies but lies non the less. Shes been sloppy and done silly things like post on Twitter that shes in some awesome nightclub when I know for a fact shes sitting at a friends house etc. Seems to be an attention thing. Ive have mentioned about this sort of thing (not called her out, just in a casual way) and shes given me some wishy washy excuse story. Ive always maintained a blase attitude towards her though so not shown any suspicion or annoyance.

Thirdly, as mentioned earlier she keeps all her exes around. This is the biggest red flag for me. She has a 'best friend' who is guy. Shes always maintained hes just a friend but by looking through some of her twitter postings from 8 months ago it seems they where indeed a couple (references to him as her boyfriend etc). Theres no way I can be sure but she spends a hell of a lot of time with this dude, like 5 nights a week hanging out with him. I did suspect at one point he was still her boyfriend but will never know as she doesnt live locally to me. I do know their mutual friends know about me as Ive met a couple of them so seems likely if I was her side guy she wouldnt be blatantly telling her her friends about me (they are this dudes friends too).

From what I can tell she had very few genuine female friends (classic AW) and it seems her only real guy friends are exes, she has another ex she hangs out with too.

I think its worth mentioning at this point Im sure she tries to make me jealous. For whatever reason we had a conversation about jealousy and she mentioned how I 'dont seem the jealous type' (Im not at all). Im generally pretty indifferent towards womens attempt to make me jealous and show Ive got no time for such things. I do think on some level her telling me about hanging out with this guy is her attempt at subtle jealousy.

So I guess what Im saying is, should I bail?? Im at a point in which even though I feel a degree of attachment to her I can still walk away. I mean sure this all sounds pretty bad but there is plenty of good. We have awesome sex, great conversation and do get on really well. She puts in plenty of effort keeping in touch with me and arranging dates etc. On the other hand, all of the above is making me suspicious and I dont want to end up 6 months down the road in a messy situation. Welll??

Run for the hills!!

 

[grayclif]

Im pretty sure if I backed away she will certainly come running.

Then back off and see what she does. If she comes running explain to her that you feel uncomfortable with her hanging out with all her exes. Then sit back and wait.

In the meantime get a few more plates in rotation.

 

[YawataNoKami]

That girl has more red flags than a Double Dare obstacle course.

 

[logicallefty]

Good advice. I do know there are too many red flags. I guess because I have been unlucky enough to have a serious relationship with a grade A AW I easily recognised the traits (they're remarkably similar) so went in with my guard right up, it still is high really. Paradoxically I think this is what has drawn her to me. The fact she keeps exes says to me shes obviously the one doing the ditching and has her cake.

I guess my concern is that although Im in a position now in which my head in is check Im concerned if I take it further it will be increasingly more difficult to keep emotions level. She is working hard to keep me though.

Im pretty sure if I backed away she will certainly come running.

It's the perfect time for you to back away and find out where her interest level stands. You will know within a day or two by if she reaches out to you or not. On the other hand if she chooses her orbiters\exes over you then you need to end it before you get more emotionally invested. Plus, if you end it like I said and just blame both you and her schedules, that will set the frame for if you do see her again later. She will know that you aren't going to stand for her cr@ap and be more likely to be a better GF for you later. Sometimes you have to make bold moves in order to reframe but it's a win/win either way. Either you get rid of the woman and don't waste anymore of your time or emotional investment, or, you set her straight and let her know you aren't going to tolerate her sh|t. And that while she may make rules with all of her other exes and orbiters, with you, you make the rules and she can either take it or leave it. Her choice.

 

[parkthebus]

I'll pick up on something I don't think the others have mentioned which is the lying. I think you know that small white lies, when told consistently, are just a precursor for a very serious lie. It indicates her nature. I find people with a deceptive nature are rarely loyal and this is personified by her AW nature. If she is so comfortable telling these lies, and tries to make excuses for them, you will never be able to trust this female. A sexually exclusive relationship won't work without near complete trust. Even if you want this to be a success, it won't because of her nature. And every time she'll tell you a lie that you don't argue with, you'll lose a little more respect for yourself. Finally, liars are simply anti-social and bad for any form of relationship. Be gone attention ***** be gone!

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Bunjy,
Oh don't worry,as the novelty wears off the long journey becomes more irksome....It will just fade quietly away...long Distance relationships,are difficult enough with faithful,honest people,she is neither of these,just enjoy the moment.

 

[dustmuffin]

Dear Bunjy,
Oh don't worry,as the novelty wears off the long journey becomes more irksome....It will just fade quietly away...long Distance relationships,are difficult enough with faithful,honest people,she is neither of these,just enjoy the moment.

That is a good way to look at it. I was in a ldr and never again. I would suggest dumping her before she dumps you.

 

[bunjy]

It's the perfect time for you to back away and find out where her interest level stands. You will know within a day or two by if she reaches out to you or not. On the other hand if she chooses her orbiters\exes over you then you need to end it before you get more emotionally invested. Plus, if you end it like I said and just blame both you and her schedules, that will set the frame for if you do see her again later. She will know that you aren't going to stand for her cr@ap and be more likely to be a better GF for you later. Sometimes you have to make bold moves in order to reframe but it's a win/win either way. Either you get rid of the woman and don't waste anymore of your time or emotional investment, or, you set her straight and let her know you aren't going to tolerate her sh|t. And that while she may make rules with all of her other exes and orbiters, with you, you make the rules and she can either take it or leave it. Her choice.

Agreed. The thing is however, I already know how that will play out. She will absolutely come running to me. Infact Id even go as far to say that she would be very upset. Despite everything and all her games I do think she genuinely likes me. I do think to some extent a lot of this has to do with her disbelief that Im not like the other chumps shes used to dealing with. I feel as if In some way shes trying to actually make me jealous or get me to slip up and she feels a bit 'WTF why isnt my usual crap working here'.

As it stands at this point she is making most of the effort and is has done most of the chasing. I passed (inadvertently) her silly tests, shown no jealousy at all and been a challenge without really trying. Its not really a case of me needing to reframe as I solidly have the frame, Im not particularly bothered by all her nonsense and as long as Im still getting some Im happy.

Insofar as her exes/orbiters. Im pretty sure the distance plays a large part in this. Lets say I call her out on it all, more than likely she would be like 'Ok I will put a stop to it' but Id have no real way of ever really knowing as we dont spend enough time together for me too see with my own eyes whats going on. She could easily carry it all on and Id have no real way of being certain whether she is or not. I suppose the problem would be whether or not she actually would put a stop to it if in the future I did call her out for it. Presently I dont have any real issue with her exes/orbiters, its not ideal but as long as I feel shes still making the effort and shes still coming home with me Im happy enough to let her carry on her attention seeking. My main concern is how this would effect me if I go any deeper. Its not about me trying to control the frame now, its more about would I still be able to control it if I went further with her.

Shes even now invited me to meet her parents in a few weeks and is starting to make more of a big deal about our relationship. I guess one of the issues here is to do with my attitude, Ive been seriously burnt in the past and over the past few years have been very suspicious about getting too involved with chicks. This certainly isnt an typical AW dilemma with some guy (me) being head over heels for an AW and having to now deal with all her crap. In a weird way this is concrete proof that genuine nonchalance does infact work in your favour with chicks.

A part of me does think I should just proceed as usual, keep enjoying the company, attention, great sex. Keep my head level and see how it plays out.

 

[Die Hard]

You are gonna end up too emotionally involved and eventually sh!t will hit the fan, leaving you emotionally damaged.

You can see it coming, you fear it will happen, deep down you even KNOW it will happen. And you know very well that the only way to prevent it from happening is by leaving her now.

Here's the catch: Right now, all this is just a notion in your head, it's something that will happen in the future and that's why you can't bring yourself to leave her right now!

It's kinda like thinking about the fact that you'll die some day. You know you'll die someday but if all goes well, it'll be yeaaaaars from now. So it's just a notion in your head, it doesn't make you feel concerned or really influence your actions right now.
But if you knew you were gonna die NEXT WEEK, you sure as hell would feel concerned and it would influence your actions right now! Coz the notion in your head is becoming reality...

So until the emotional damage becomes tangible reality, you won't feel enough of an urge to cut her loose. Of course, by then it'll be too late and you'll have to deal with the emotional scars...

There's no easy solution. I'd say you have to help yourself and actively force the situation. You say there are red flags and **** test that would cause you serious grievance if you were too emotionally involved.
Those things will eventually make you decide to leave her because of the emotional grievance... but like I said, leaving a girl once you got emotionally attached, will leave you with emotional scars...
So make an issue out of those red flags and sh!t tests RIGHT NOW! Force the situation.

She'll resist, you'll get into fights about it. She won't change and keep displaying the behavior... You'll "punish" her for it and do something she doesn't like, in order to force her to change. She'll "punish" you back and just display more bad behavior, things will get very negative between the two of you and eventually you'll get so angry and frustrated with her that you'll want to leave her.

It's kinda sick and this is actually what women often do, consciously or unconsciously. If they don't feel it for you anymore and want to break up, they will feel bad about it or feel sorry for you. So they start acting like bytches and instigate fights with you. Eventually they use those fights as justification to break up with you,it makes them feel like they had a legit reason to break up, even though they CREATED that reason themselves...

I think most guys are incapable of doing such a thing and it would be no surprise if you can't do it. All I'm saying is, this is the only way of preventing that scenario where you get emotionally involved too much and end up emotionally damaged.
You have to deliberately set into motion a chain of events that will ruin your relationship, so that things will get sour between the two of you fast and soon cause a break up between you and her. It won't feel right, but it will allow you to get away from her BEFORE the doomed scenario that made you start this thread can take place!

Good luck, man.

 

[JimProphetMGTOW]

If I were you, I would just continue to see her as you are and continue to game other chicks in the background. If she can keep orbiters and friends around, then you can do the same.