She's taking it waaaaay too slow. Is she actually into me?

[Cerwin Vega]

I'm (28yo) pretty used to 1st date lays (2nd date max), but this 9/10 22yo wouldn't let me kiss her till the 4th(!) date lmao.

Been seeing each other for 2 weeks or so. Yesterday we met again at her house, and when I came in to gave her a kiss she pulled away and gave me a hug instead. She put on netflix and kinda kept her distance from me. Mind you, the same couch we've made out on just a couple of days ago.

I started a (lighthearted - lots of teasing and laughing) conversation about this. I asked her if she feels nervous around me.

Her: "Kissing is very serious for me. I don't kiss outside of a relationship, I'm not a *****"
Me: "I don't see kissing as anything so serious, and I don't call anyone a ***** over anything"
Her: "I need to know the guy for several months and the guy has to 'charm' me before we kiss, but you're moving so fast and being pushy, this is the fastest I've had so it's hard for me to kiss you"
Me: "Well, we've already made out, so you can't unkiss me"
Her: *laughing* "I'm just being cautious, because people are not always what they say they are, and I don't wanna get hurt"
Me: "So basically you want us to be exclusive"
Her: "Well...I'm not sure I'm ready for a relationship but-"
Me: cutting her off "I know exactly what I want, and eventually it's a stable relationship"
Me: "I don't know what will happen between us, but I'm keeping an open mind and I'm ready to figure it out. I just wanna know I'm not wasting my efforts and time on someone who is not heading the same direction as I am"
Her: "You are very nice to me, but I want you to be yourself (wtf?), because it sometimes feel too nice, and some guys just want one thing from you......"
Me: "****, you're onto me *wink* you know what, let me get it off the table -- I'm not gonna have sex with you anytime soon" to which she started giggling and laughing hysterically, downright as if I said "butt" to a 5yo
Me: "Don't get this the wrong way, but are you a virgin? I've never seen someone laugh so hard over the word sex since I was 10 years old"
Her: "Noooooo come on *laughing even harder*, I was in a long term relationship before. This is an awkward conversation. Did come here to make out with me?"
Me: "Hell yeah. Make out, talk, have fun. This is what people do when they're interested in each other"
Her: "I believe the guy has to be my best friend before I start dating him"
Me: "Well, that's your WRONG opinion, but it's fine"
Her: *shocked and laughing at the same time*

Despite the serious tone conveyed by the text on the screen, I felt very calm and comfortable during the exchange and she was mostly laughing and having fun. We made out a few times, and just cuddled on the couch, much more comfortably this time.

We agreed on some mutual ideas like not ****ing around even when dating and not in a relationship etc but...

I'm just not so sure that she's really into me. Any girl I dated before her was literally dragging me to the bedroom to **** the **** out of them, even the ones who played so hard to get. But her....I don't know. I know that women are usually more sexual than men and purely based on the lack of results I'd move on, but after holding these convos and the.....lack of disinterest(?) makes me think maybe it's worth pursuing.

It feels like I'm getting enough food from her to not starve (dump her), but not enough feel full. She won't initiate anything physical beyond holding my hand and hugging me; I have to do all the groundwork. Feels like I'm dating a 13-year-old. I don't mind not having sex for a month or two if it means she's 100% into me, but I need to know she is.

I know I'm a catch, and I bet she does so too. Maybe she had a bad experience and is scared that I might use her / think badly of her. Or maybe she is really not interested...why keep talking to me and accepting my pursuit then?

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

This girl is obviously playing games or you failed to escalate properly. I just literally had sex with a girl that pulled that sit on the end of the couch move so it’s no big deal. Judging by the convo, I will put my money on you screwing things up. She wanted you to be the man and lead things to sex and you brought up a relationship/called her a virgin two weeks after meeting her Lol.

IMHO, Sex might still be salvageable but you definitely lowered your value in her eyes. Sometimes we screw up with certain women, it’s part of the game.

 

[SW15]

This girl is obviously playing games or you failed to escalate properly.

This is a 28 year old guy who claims to usually get laid on the 1st or 2nd date. If he has an extensive track record of getting laid on the 1st or 2nd date (10+ instances), then we can say that he has good enough escalation game.

My sense is that he picked a bad target for fast sex.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

This is a 28 year old guy who claims to usually get laid on the 1st or 2nd date. If he has an extensive track record of getting laid on the 1st or 2nd date (10+ instances), then we can say that he has good enough escalation game.

My sense is that he picked a bad target for fast sex.

maybe he’s used to extremely easy lays and this is the first time where he’s encountered a girl that put up a fight and he floundered lol. Not every girl is going to be an easy layup, sometimes it’s a game plan, contested shot, or three pointer lol.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Combination of she doesn’t like you all that much and you haven’t escalated properly.

 

[Cerwin Vega]

Escalating more than I already am means physically forcing her to do whatever.

She's already resisting pretty much anything more than making out, and her body language conveys that. Pushing harder means I'm either a rapist or a horny dog who can't read the room, unless you mean something else by "proper escalation".

> brought up a relationship
Yeah, because that's goal. I'm tired to ****ing around and want a stable one. I don't see why should I be ashamed of or hide what I want.

> If he has an extensive track record of getting laid on the 1st or 2nd date (10+ instances), then we can say that he has good enough escalation game.
I never actually struggled with it. With the last couple of girls I actually didn't really wanna jump to bed so quickly, but I felt they might think I'm not interested so I just went with it.
Also, there's sometimes some LMR but the generic "you're right, we shouldn't be doing this" and re-engaging later always does the trick.

> My sense is that he picked a bad target for fast sex.
I don't care about fast sex. As I've started, I want a relationship. I wanna know I'm not wasting my time and mental energy over this. My wingman says she's probably lying and all girls say that, and I'm naïve...I don't know what to think.

> maybe he’s used to extremely easy lays and this is the first time where he’s encountered a girl that put up a fight lol.
Define "easy lays". They were all "**** yes" type of girls (Mark Manson classification). If I sensed that a girl was pulling my leg and my time is being wasted, I'd tell them I have to wake up early and ask them to leave the house.

I can't say that this one is not interested at all; maybe just not interested enough.

> Combination of she doesn’t like you all that much and you haven’t escalated properly.
Probably the closest thing to reality. She's really hot, probably the hottest I've dated, so my judgement might be altered

 

[EyeBRollin]

> Combination of she doesn’t like you all that much and you haven’t escalated properly.
Probably the closest thing to reality. She's really hot, probably the hottest I've dated, so my judgement might be altered

Then abort. Stop wasting your time with this girl.

 

[Cerwin Vega]

Then abort. Stop wasting your time with this girl.

What's eating me is what if she's actually telling the truth. What if she's actually quite conservative and just needs more time and comfort. She's Russian, from a very good family (from another thread, written by mikedee: "I have a lot of experience with Russian/Ukrainian women, I have lived in Moscow for a while and dated so many....... I know them well, they are more conservative so I didn't try to kiss close right away. I did that mistake so many times in the past") I've never been in such a situation, and never dated a girl who wasn't eager to jump my bones.

Would you completely cut it off? What if she invites me over.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Escalating more than I already am means physically forcing her to do whatever.

She's already resisting pretty much anything more than making out, and her body language conveys that. Pushing harder means I'm either a rapist or a horny dog who can't read the room, unless you mean something else by "proper escalation".

If she verbally tells you she doesn’t want to have sex with you then yes back off. However, it seems like this girl ran a defense that you weren’t ready for and you dropped the ball game completely. Bringing up a relationship after only two weeks is a pretty dumb move, you know this lol. Some girls give you a little defense to not make themselves look like a complete hoe lol, it’s nothing unusual. If this girl was a prude then you would know pretty early lol.

 

[Cerwin Vega]

If she verbally tells you she doesn’t want to have sex with you then yes back off. However, it seems like this girl ran a defense that you weren’t ready for and you dropped the ball game completely. Bringing up a relationship after only two weeks is a pretty dumb move, you know this lol. Some girls give you a little defense to not make themselves look like a complete hoe lol, it’s nothing unusual. If this girl was a prude then you would know pretty early lol.

This may go against PUA rules but as long as I see myself as the prize, I don't think there's a problem with stating my intentions. Are we wolves trying to kidnap goats, so we have to be sneaky about wanting to get laid/enter a relationship?

She was prudish from the beginning, and tbh a bit infantile. She asked to go out in public instead of coming over for our 2nd date, and verbally rejected me (loud NO) and stated I'm being too fast when I tried to kiss her at the end of it.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

This may go against PUA rules but as long as I see myself as the prize, I don't think there's a problem with stating my intentions. Are we wolves trying to kidnap goats, so we have to be sneaky about wanting to get laid/enter a relationship?

She was prudish from the beginning, and tbh a bit infantile

A valuable prize is a prize that isn’t easily won. You basically made yourself a participation trophy in this scenario. You barely even know this girl and you are pushing for a relationship. She could have some skeletons in her closet that won’t start to creep out for a month or so.

 

[Cerwin Vega]

A valuable prize is a prize that isn’t easily won. You basically made yourself a participation trophy in this scenario. You barely even know this girl and you are pushing for a relationship. She could have some skeletons in her closet that won’t start to creep out for a month or so.

Then you just break up.

IDK where you're from, but I've dated plenty of Iranians (drop dead gorgeous but totally nuts) -- in their culture, if you want anything at all from them -- you are either their boyfriend or nothing. They don't **** around. Some girls are like that...

But we digress. This is your mindset, and statistically, it might be superior to mine, but I don't see the problem with being open.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

She isn't into you or she really is one of those chicks who is super weird about this stuff...

Or she isn't sure about you yet.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

IDK where you're from, but I've dated plenty of Iranians (drop dead gorgeous but totally nuts) -- in their culture, if you want anything at all from them -- you are either their boyfriend or nothing. They don't **** around. Some girls are like that...

yeah I couldn’t pull an Iranian chick to save my life. I get what you mean about them though lol. I know with white girls that’s a big no no.

 

[Cerwin Vega]

She isn't into you or she really is one of those chicks who is super weird about this stuff...

Or she isn't sure about you yet.

My mind tells me it's one of the latter. She literally became red and couldn't stop giggling when I said "sex" and "virgin".

I've ****ed girls who were weird about sex before, it's usually due to horrible experiences with past lover(s) or cultural things. They usually open up completely after they see it's no big deal and they can enjoy it too, with me. But there was no where near such resistance as with this one

 

[Cerwin Vega]

yeah I couldn’t pull an Iranian chick to save my life. I get what you mean about them though lol. I know with white girls that’s a big no no.

I've been in a relationship with two. They'll take care of you better than your mommy -- cook for you, buy you stuff, clean and wash for you -- and will actively ask for your **** sometimes several times a day. They're completely crazy though, jealous and manipulative.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Yes, I think she is actually into you.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I've been in a relationship with two. They'll take care of you better than your mommy -- cook for you, buy you stuff, clean and wash for you -- and will actively ask for your **** sometimes several times a day. They're completely crazy though, jealous and manipulative.

then why you fvcking around with other chicks? I'd kill to have an Iranian gf over a white girl lol.

 

[mikedee]

What's eating me is what if she's actually telling the truth. What if she's actually quite conservative and just needs more time and comfort. She's Russian, from a very good family (from another thread, written by mikedee: "I have a lot of experience with Russian/Ukrainian women, I have lived in Moscow for a while and dated so many....... I know them well, they are more conservative so I didn't try to kiss close right away. I did that mistake so many times in the past") I've never been in such a situation, and never dated a girl who wasn't eager to jump my bones.

Would you completely cut it off? What if she invites me over.

She is Russian, that's the reason why it's taking so long. Don't expect her to invite you over. I've dated a lot of Russian girls, I'm used to first date lays too, but forget ONS with them, plus they are hardcore hypergamous.

 

[Cerwin Vega]

She is Russian, that's the reason why it's taking so long. Don't expect her to invite you over. I've dated a lot of Russian girls, I'm used to first date lays too, but forget ONS with them, plus they are hardcore hypergamous.

She already did invite me over, and as stated, I'm not looking for a ONS with her