She won't give it up

[usscrum]

Alright, so long story short...I came here around Valentine's Day hung up on some broad who dumped me for being an AFC. I read the DJ bible and took some harsh criticism from some people here and it really helped a lot. I have changed my mindset completely. I look back to 3 months ago and get the douche chills when I think about how much of a little ***** I was being. But its all good now and I'm over her.

Fast forward to early April when I meet the girl in question. We met at a formal-type thing for my friend's fraternity. I was hammered but we hit it off well. We danced for a little bit but she had to leave early so I grabbed her digits. She goes to school about an hour away from me so we talked a little bit over the next week or so, end up meeting the next weekend and hanging out. One thing leads to another and after about a month we're pretty much dating (without the title at least).

She is a great girl, hot, caring, affectionate, easy to talk to, the whole nine yards. She gives me head pretty much whenever we hang out and is forever talking about how much she loves to do it along with all other kinds of sexual stuff (she has a rape fantasy...cha ching!!).

Here's the problem: She will NOT GIVE IT UP. She has told me that she sees sex as "something special" and will only do it with someone she is dating for a while (I think she said 3 months, but I called her out on having stupid timelines like that and she kind of backed off). She has told me that she's been taken advantage of and strung along in the past so I guess that has made her extra cautious. She knows that I don't really agree with her about waiting so long but it seems like she won't budge. It really bothers me because she'll do everything but that and when we just sit around and essentially have foreplay for 3 hrs its kind of pointless even though she'll suck me off once or twice.

Yes, I realize that most of the advice is going to be "dump her and find another broad" but this girl is LTR material and I don't want to kick her to the curb for that reason alone. Its really the only thing that bothers me about her. And i can tell that she's a freak in bed based off what she has told me so I really really want to f*ck her. Basically I'm asking is there any way I can get her to have sex sooner without making it seem like that's the only thing I want??

 

[Rhoto]

She's not LTR material if she doesn't fulfill one of your key, fundamental needs, imo. If she thinks you're serious, better let her know.

And a bit of context -

Originally Posted by Rollo Tomassi
2. Iron Rule of Tomassi #3
Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

This also applies to women's "sexual filibustering".

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous, chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It's sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to ƒuck you will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, ƒuck you like a porn star and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife/GF comes home early from work - women who want to ƒuck will find a way to ƒuck. The girl who tells you she wants a relationship first or "just isn't comfortable with you yet" is the same girl who ƒucked the "totally hot guy" in the foam cannon party in Cancun with her girlfriends on spring break half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she'll ƒuck regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sexual, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek, you need to go back to square one and start fresh. You cannot negotiate genuine desire.

This is exactly why you spin plates.

 

[COD]

spin more plates.........keep her as an alternative, back burner.

Dude its just sex, no biggie, 3 months is not that long if she is the one.

TACTICS-you gotta make her believe your that guy. Start introducing KINO, then back off........then start up again. PUSH/PULL and stop bringing it up so much......if U keeps asking it does get irritating after a while and could end up losing her.

 

[The Bat]

...but this girl is LTR material and I don't want to kick her to the curb for that reason alone. Its really the only thing that bothers me about her. And i can tell that she's a freak in bed based off what she has told me so I really really want to f*ck her...

You can tell she is a freak in the bed but you have no way of knowing, do you?

You don't turn her on enough for her to fvck your brains out the first chance she gets.

If a girl is into you sexually, she will not hesitate to let you penetrate her like an animal.

And the fact that she has already had sex with other guys before tells me that she is not shy about sex.

If she was a virgin or very young (<18), then I could see how she wouldn't want to have sex right away.

But somebody with a rape fantasy won't feed you bullsh1t like this.

Kick her to the curb and find a girl who wants to fvck your brains out.

 

[usscrum]

She's not LTR material if she doesn't fulfill one of your key, fundamental needs, imo. If she thinks you're serious, better let her know.

And a bit of context -

Trust me the iron rule was the first thing I thought of when she told me she wanted to "wait", and that's why it is bothering me.

spin more plates.........keep her as an alternative, back burner.

I plan on getting some p*ssy on the side if she is really going to make me wait. The thing is she only has sex with boyfriends (i know, i know...that's what she "says") and there is no way on God's green earth that I am going to make this girl my girlfriend if we haven't had sex with. Its just not gonna happen.

TACTICS-you gotta make her believe your that guy. Start introducing KINO, then back off........then start up again. PUSH/PULL and stop bringing it up so much......if U keeps asking it does get irritating after a while and could end up losing her.

The thing is, I never bring it up. Ever. Its always her. For instance, we were messing around at her place the other day and after she had given me head she asked "does it bother you that i dont want to have sex yet" and I played it off and said i dont agree with her about it but its not that big of a deal". she always tries to talk dirty when we're texting, especially when she's drunk. like she will tell me what she wants to do to me and then say something like "jk you know im not that easy" or "i dont want to do that yet".

 

[usscrum]

You can tell she is a freak in the bed but you have no way of knowing, do you?

Well she is awful specific, so its hard not to take her word for it, but i see what you're saying.

You don't turn her on enough for her to fvck your brains out the first chance she gets.

and this is what bothers me. i tend to believe that i turn her on enough because she is always wet when we're messing around and she will literally attack me sometimes. but it has been in the back of my mind that maybe she just doesn't want to have sex with me.

here's the thing...last night she was texting me about how she wanted me to eat her out, how good it felt, and how it always led to sex but she "didnt want to do that yet". i said something like "well you're the one who has to say stop not me ". then she replied asking me if i would stop even if she didn't ask because "sometimes I lose control and i dont want to regret anything since we arent dating yet". of course i said F*ck no. but that leads me to believe that she genuinely wants to f*ck but is trying to stick to her stupid-ass rule or whatever.

And the fact that she has already had sex with other guys before tells me that she is not shy about sex.

they were all with boyfriends (going by what she told me)

If she was a virgin or very young (<18), then I could see how she wouldn't want to have sex right away.

she turned 19 back in january, i'm 21.

 

[The Bat]

She sounds like a plain ol' ****-tease...

Maybe she wants you to "rape" her...?

Slightly kidding about that...don't "rape" her.

Girls can be very good at making it seem like they are freaks in bed. All they have to do is give you that seductive look, whisper something dirty, and your **** thinks that she is the next Lily Thai.

Don't over-analyze this dude. Spin more plates, and keep this one in the back if you like hanging out with her enough.

My guess is she will probably give you an ultimatum where you're going to have to become exclusive with her. If that happens, then tell her you can't because you believe that sex is a foundation of a serious relationship. Without sex, there can be no relationship.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I realize that most of the advice is going to be "dump her and find another broad" but this girl is LTR material and I don't want to kick her to the curb for that reason alone.

Why not?

I think one of the biggest mistakes guys against a 3 Strikes rule make is assuming that it means a guy would be so preoccupied with sex that you couldn't wait for 4-6 dates, and in your case months. They assume that a 3 Strikes rule (or any rule dependent upon sexual reciprocation) makes them Players at best, superficial and sex-concerned at worst. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The mistake is to presume that a 3 date policy is some form of punishment for the girl for not having 'put out' soon enough to verify interest. It's not punishment, it's a fail-safe that serves to protect a guy from some protracted personal investment for a very limited return. For example, I play golf and when I want to improve my game I hire a golf pro. I pay him $120 for 3 lessons, so $40 per lesson. At the end of my 3rd lesson I assess whether or not my game's improved and I can decide to continue with him or, if I see no improvement I can choose to find another pro and do the same. I'm not punishing the pro for doing this, I'm simply looking for the best value in an area I wish to improve in.

The misunderstanding is to see a 3 Strikes rule as a threat. "She'd better put out after tonight or I'm outta here". I can see why that would place a burden upon a woman, but you must take into account why a 3 Strike rule would even be a necessary concept. 3 dates (and I mean real dates, none of this coffee / lunch crap) over the course of 3 weeks should be ample time to make the assessment as to whether a woman has interest and attraction enough to become intimate. Anything beyond this is indicative of filibustering on a woman's part and usually points to an only lukewarm IL if at all. In this way a 3 Strike rule benefits both men and women; why would either sex want to engage in a relationship that was lackluster from the start? Why would either want to be involved with a person who was settled on or settled for?

It's urgency and anxiety that makes for genuine, chemical-fueled sexual desire - not comfort, not familiarity. This is precisely why I say Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait. It's not that you can't have sex with her, it's that the sex is compromised, second choice sex. It becomes mundane before anyone's clothes come off. She's not having sex with you be cause she's uncontrollably aroused by you, she's having sex with you because she feels obligated to. Having sex with a woman who doesn't want to is called rape.

We only chase what runs away from us.

Familiarity and comfort are anti-seductive. Remove that comfort and replace it with an unexpected, seemingly erratic response and you will create anxiety. This anxiety, discomfort and unpredictability is exactly what fosters sexual tension. This is the foundation of progressing from attraction into seduction and on to rapport.

Most AFCs have been conditioned for the better part of their lifetimes to think that comfort, friendship and familiarity are the way to a sexual state through a constant repetition of women telling them the same in order to avoid seeming shallow or as a preemptive ASD. The AFC only gets more frustrated when that same woman ends up ƒucking another guy after a second date. Why? Because that intercourse flowed from attraction into seduction into sexuality and THEN into rapport, with all the intervening stages of anxiety, uncertainty, discomfort and the imaginings that come with it. If the initial attraction is there, you should never need to plead your case or qualify yourself as a source of comfort and reliability; this is anti-sexual and women on some level of consciousness acknowledge this.

 

[Captain]

Yes, I realize that most of the advice is going to be "dump her and find another broad"

Don't dump her, keep her on the side, but DATE OTHER WOMEN, and let her know you are.

this girl is LTR material and I don't want to kick her to the curb for that reason alone.

She isn't LTR material if she isn't fulfilling your needs.

Basically I'm asking is there any way I can get her to have sex sooner without making it seem like that's the only thing I want??

Lots of slow kino escalation. Make her really, really want it. Date other women to make her jealous. Don't sit around doing three hours of foreplay if there won't be sex, get up and leave. Don't reward her for withholding sex.

 

[usscrum]

******************UPDATE*********************










we boned. many times


that is all.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Happy ending. Fantastic.

 

[Warrior74]

you gotta do better than that usscrum, explain to other people who might be in your situation how you got from having to wait 3 months to boning many times. Otherwise your not helping out your brothers.

Did anyone's advice here help you at all? Proper feedback.

 

[usscrum]

Honestly I didn't do anything differently. I think she just needed to convince herself that I wasn't going to screw her over because she has had a lot of guys who she really cared about try to use her in the past.

It was pretty odd how it went down actually. It was my first night staying over in her apartment that she had just moved into a couple days before. We had come back from a party and got into bed. We were just messing around and then I started to go down on her. she was loving it but about 5-10 minutes into that one of her girlfriends called her and needed to stay the night. There were people partying in the living room so the stupid b*tch decided to sleep in my girls bedroom. she passed out on the floor and we just kind of laid there and talked. then she got real emotional talking about her family problems and stuff and eventually started crying. i just kind of laid there and listened to her.

somehow that transitioned into her getting horny and she went for my d*ck. next thing you know she's putting it in her and we f*ck for alittle bit while her friend is sleeping on the floor. i couldnt go hard enough to finish so eventually i just rolled over and we went to sleep. we did it a few times the next day though.

she mentioned later on something about how she doesn't let guys all the way "in" at first (referring to her emotions and stuff like that) but instead lets them in a little at a time to see how they handle it. she said she doesnt have sex with a guy unless she knows he has feelings for her and she feels likewise. i guess i reassured her enough.

i dont think this is really going to help anyone but oh well. i appreciate all the advice.

 

[Cinamon]

Honey, if she really is all that and the only thing stopping you from being with her is the fact that she is not putting out, you can get her to put out.

Most women are super aroused before they are due on, time that with a bit of extra attention to get her really going and you will hit the jackpot. Each woman is different, but without going in to too much detail, there are certain zones that once triggered unleashes a lioness in most women.

Either way, you are half way there, its not long before June is here and you get some action.

Good luck x

 

[Credos]

Wait wait wait! A small summary of what did happen might help!

Honestly I didn't do anything differently.

Clearly you did

I think she just needed to convince herself that I wasn't going to screw her over because she has had a lot of guys who she really cared about try to use her in the past.

Meh that's AW bullcr*p... Anyhow, she was figuring out if you could get a pvssypass.

It was pretty odd how it went down actually.

Nah

It was my first night staying over in her apartment that she had just moved into a couple days before. We had come back from a party and got into bed.

Alot of changes in scenery, which is good for building up rapport much swifter

then she got real emotional talking about her family problems and stuff and eventually started crying. i just kind of laid there and listened to her.

Here you proven her that you do care about here, and she was clearly testing you about this the whole time. So you had to trigger her insecuraties and show you care about what she feels. You passed the test! And that test revolved about:

1) you build rapport
2) she shows intrest
3) she's insecure about the situation so -> LMR:

she: "Is this guy for real or does he just want sex with me...?"
You: *passed the test*
she: hands you your new: p*ssy pass :cheer:

(PS: if you Now hate her and you want to bust her on making you wait: text message her: "Have I told you lately how much I care about you? No? Think about it, have a great life..." :rockon: )