She doesn't want to have sex because she "doesn't know me well enough."

[runner83]

this is ridiculous
puuting up that much effort making that poor girl suffer just to make yourself feel important is the most pathetic, ugly, innsecure thing ive ever seen.
it's also stupid, you don't need to do that????!
You want to **** her? She wants you to **** her, just be better at getting it done.
you want to gf her? you will have to fix later the damage you're doing in her little heart right now.

you're such an idiot.

Ignore this advice. Comes from a girl, 'nuff said.

BBardot says (like all girls) that it would never work, but in reality, being a man in control who doesn't put up with sh*t is what gets panties soaking.

What IS ridiculous is putting up with a girl who won't let you bang her. OP seems to be handling it well so far from what I can tell.

If she won't respect your s*xual needs as man, why even spend time with her?

Keep up your current approach of putting your own needs before her fvcked up reality, and if she doesn't come around to your way of thinking, lose her.

 

[Korrupt]

Ignore this advice. Comes from a girl, 'nuff said.

BBardot says (like all girls) that it would never work, but in reality, being a man in control who doesn't put up with sh*t is what gets panties soaking.

What IS ridiculous is putting up with a girl who won't let you bang her. OP seems to be handling it well so far from what I can tell.

If she won't respect your s*xual needs as man, why even spend time with her?

Keep up your current approach of putting your own needs before her fvcked up reality, and if she doesn't come around to your way of thinking, lose her.

Agreed. This b!tch is actually starting to make me angry. I "smoothed things over" so to say, through text and a phone call. She wanted to get together tomorrow, told her no because of the super bowl, so she asked if Monday was good for me. I told her that was good.

She texted me not too long ago saying she was in the area and we should meet-up now.. Obviously not going to happen. Somehow it got to the point of her calling me cheap. So between her not putting out, calling me cheap and whining, I couldn't stop myself as I sent the text "I could care less what you think." After that I got back "omg relax," "I was kidding," "if u don't care what I think then don't bother even talking to me. Lose the f*cking attitude," and "why do you all of a sudden feel the need to be a d!ck to me? Lol just wondering." This idiotic cvnt isn't even worthy of a response. Living in her own little world where she does no wrong and I'm the one who is being the assh0le.

 

[Nutz]

Now is when you turn off the "Game" and hook up with her. That was why she called you, so that's a missed opportunity right there. Stop beating around the bush, you've got her interest massively spiked by going dead air on her the other day, so no need to repeat it.

It's all just a form of pavlovian training. She jerks you around, you punish her with removing interest. She gives interest, then you reward her with interest as well.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I was going to say, now's the time to sh!t or get off the pot with her. If she's not worth the effort then move on to another plate. If you're doing a takeaway, then at some point you have to feed the rabbit. Operant conditioning only works if there's an intermittent reward. No apologies, no "I missed you babes" no explication; only demonstration. If she's not reciprocating with the desired behavior, push\pull again.

The trick to an effective takeaway is being authentic. You cannot come off as being sulky or like a spoiled child. If that's the association she makes then she takes the frame every time you have sex and that will end up in negotiated desire.

A takeaway or push/pull is a lot like a game of chicken. Whoever blinks first loses frame. So she calls you 'cheap' or a 'Jerk' - that's her push. You fire back with 'I don't care what you think' and her pull is then 'omg', 'chill out' 'just kidding', which is then followed by another push 'lose the attitude', 'don't be a d!ck' (translation: waaaaghh! I want my frame) It's all about who needs who the least. If she wasn't into you she'd be indifferent so don't worry about her interest failing - she's getting off on all the drama, it gives her something to live for. You've played it perfectly up to this point, keep that hamster in her head spinning on the wheel. She likes you enough to fear loss.

 

[BBbardot]

I was going to say, now's the time to sh!t or get off the pot with her. If she's not worth the effort then move on to another plate. If you're doing a takeaway, then at some point you have to feed the rabbit. Operant conditioning only works if there's an intermittent reward. No apologies, no "I missed you babes" no explication; only demonstration. If she's not reciprocating with the desired behavior, push\pull again.

The trick to an effective takeaway is being authentic. You cannot come off as being sulky or like a spoiled child. If that's the association she makes then she takes the frame every time you have sex and that will end up in negotiated desire.

A takeaway or push/pull is a lot like a game of chicken. Whoever blinks first loses frame. So she calls you 'cheap' or a 'Jerk' - that's her push. You fire back with 'I don't care what you think' and her pull is then 'omg', 'chill out' 'just kidding', which is then followed by another push 'lose the attitude', 'don't be a d!ck' (translation: waaaaghh! I want my frame) It's all about who needs who the least. If she wasn't into you she'd be indifferent so don't worry about her interest failing - she's getting off on all the drama, it gives her something to live for. You've played it perfectly up to this point, keep that hamster in her head spinning on the wheel. She likes you enough to fear loss.

relationship is not about being in a test of strenght. It's all about compromise. Thats the way it works in the end. Sometimes we can't help and try to have it our way but this is emotional and childish in the end we need to come back to reason and work together.

You need to be generous too. You need to give a bit of your land and let her give a bit of hers too. Sometimes you can fight but the positive outcome of any conflict must be that each give up a bit of their cake to the other. There must not be a "winner". You must both feel like you're in it together.


you obviously both like each other otherwise you wouldn't even be in a conflict, you would have just walked away. So the fact you like her and she likes you shouldn't even be under question, that's just doesn't make sense.
when we fight my bf that is the most manly person ever and that took forever to declare his feelings, NEVer threatened me by stopping our relationship in order to "win" a fight. I did sometimes because i was being stupid and childish. But him never and he tells me off when i do. Even though i was the one being in love straight away and him not being so sure for a while. I always tells me no, "we can argue, work it out but don't put this on the line, this is stupid and just pisses me off."


also about the original post.
I really thought it was ridiculous. She can obviously talk to whoever she wants and no, she doesn't need to tell you everything she does.
Just like you can talk to whoever you want.

now if she is flirting with him and stuff this is different.
other than that, she is not disrespecting you doing something without you knowing about it...

I think that you're in a relationship where you "own" each other and are fusional, it will potentially get pretty sad and boring or dramatic at some point.

 

[Credos]

It's all about compromise.

LMAO
Too funny, thanks for that best joke in this thread.

Major rule: Never compromise... only tom leykis can explain it decently
If you got to compromise, you show her to door, ESPECIALLY when you 30 years or younger...

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

relationship is not about being in a test of strenght. It's all about compromise.

Funny how it always comes around to compromise when the issue is about a man changing to become a woman's ideal, but it's about respect and dignity for a woman when a man wants her to change into his ideal. Just because it's uncomfortable for you to acknowledge the power dynamics in a relationship doesn't make them any less real. Every relationship is a struggle for power to some degree; it may be slight or it may be war, but there is always a struggle. In fact, your idealism for a want of balancing or compromise is in itself a power play.

You need to be generous too. You need to give a bit of your land and let her give a bit of hers too. Sometimes you can fight but the positive outcome of any conflict must be that each give up a bit of their cake to the other. There must not be a "winner". You must both feel like you're in it together.

Heheh,..yeah that seems to be the problem - she's not giving up any of her 'cake'. What you're describing is a negotiation process. Genuine desire cannot be negotiated. Real desire is intrinsic. It's about spontaneous, chemical reaction, not a process of discussing mutual terms. This is why couple's counseling is so often a fools errand; the attempt is that both parties will mutually agree to desiring what the other wants. That's not genuine desire - that's obligation, and from that comes resentment and further negotiations. You can't force someone to want to do something they have no desire to do. They have to come to that desire by their own accord.

I think what offends you is how the OP's been playing his push/pull takeaway, and for the better part it's working. In fact it's really more the girl that's playing a more aggressive push/pull, and that's got your panties in a twist. I realize it seems like a childish game, but fortunately it's an effective one. As I stated above, you can't negotiate desire. It would be wonderful if this guy could sit down and have a perfectly rational, thoughtful discussion about how he'd like to have sex with this girl and expect her to be completely lucid and accommodating. That's not how it happens, and even if it did, she wouldn't want to ƒuck him, she'd be obligated to ƒuck him.

This is where Game comes in. She can't overtly be told to want him, she has to come to that on her own, but she can be carefully, covertly, led to that desire through him stoking her imagination.

 

[Nutz]

RT knocks it out of the park once again!

 

[BBbardot]

Funny how it always comes around to compromise when the issue is about a man changing to become a woman's ideal, but it's about respect and dignity for a woman when a man wants her to change into his ideal. Just because it's uncomfortable for you to acknowledge the power dynamics in a relationship doesn't make them any less real. Every relationship is a struggle for power to some degree; it may be slight or it may be war, but there is always a struggle. In fact, your idealism for a want of balancing or compromise is in itself a power play.



Heheh,..yeah that seems to be the problem - she's not giving up any of her 'cake'. What you're describing is a negotiation process. Genuine desire cannot be negotiated. Real desire is intrinsic. It's about spontaneous, chemical reaction, not a process of discussing mutual terms. This is why couple's counseling is so often a fools errand; the attempt is that both parties will mutually agree to desiring what the other wants. That's not genuine desire - that's obligation, and from that comes resentment and further negotiations. You can't force someone to want to do something they have no desire to do. They have to come to that desire by their own accord.

I think what offends you is how the OP's been playing his push/pull takeaway, and for the better part it's working. In fact it's really more the girl that's playing a more aggressive push/pull, and that's got your panties in a twist. I realize it seems like a childish game, but fortunately it's an effective one. As I stated above, you can't negotiate desire. It would be wonderful if this guy could sit down and have a perfectly rational, thoughtful discussion about how he'd like to have sex with this girl and expect her to be completely lucid and accommodating. That's not how it happens, and even if it did, she wouldn't want to ƒuck him, she'd be obligated to ƒuck him.

This is where Game comes in. She can't overtly be told to want him, she has to come to that on her own, but she can be carefully, covertly, led to that desire through him stoking her imagination.

you misunderstood me i'm not talking about negociation. IT's very passionate with my bf. I'm talking about how we fix things when a conflic comes up.
oh and i'm not offended, i'm not being emotional i'm just saying how i think a healthy couple works. Everybody knows that in a passionate couple conflicts do come up. And it's about how to go throught it as effiviently as possible and ACTUALLY fixing the problem, not just working on getting it's own way.

 

[Thundernuts]

Was gonna say something but RT has got it covered pretty much. Just watch the txting man, don't get too caught up in it because misinterpretation happens very easily.

This is probably oblivious but I'm just gonna throw this in here as well. Coming from personal experience, what BBbardot is saying will not work in this scenario, he/she sounds like a marital counselor.

 

[BBbardot]

Was gonna say something but RT has got it covered pretty much. Just watch the txting man, don't get too caught up in it because misinterpretation happens very easily.

This is probably oblivious but I'm just gonna throw this in here as well. Coming from personal experience, what BBbardot is saying will not work in this scenario, he/she sounds like a marital counselor.

it might sound cheesy but it's actually the way it works between us. It's something we do quite naturally. When one is too mad, too upset to see things straight, the other take charge to try and fix the problem, back off on its territory if necessary. And we always get out of an argument with something forever fixed, so it kind of make us stronger.
well one thing you have to know is that i don't imagine a relationship just for the sake of it. If you can in a relationship it's really that you're in love or it's not worth the trouble.
and I can't imagine a long lasting relationship based on a strenght test. I would do it in the early stage with my bf, but now he got me to understand that we want to be together, there is no question about that, so it's pretty pointless playing with that carrot. It fixes nothing and will imply having the same arguments again and again. "winning" an argument not because you're right but because you pressure the other into giving in, doesn't fix anything.

it's not comming from a concellour. It's comming from a 17 yo girl that just enjoy using her own brain.

Just adding another vision to the thread.thats all.

Most of the time i read the thread and if i find a reply that i agree with i just quote and yes i agree.

sometimes like now if feel like it's very one sided and i was just thinking it would open some poeple to new perspective.

I don't mean to piss anyone off even if sometimes i speak a bit too frankly, lacking diplomacy.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

It’s endlessly entertaining (and predictable) to see how often women’s (and feminized men’s) default response to anything they disagree with in regards to gender dynamics is met with a personalization to the contrary. Even as young as 17, it’s always the “not-in-my-case” story about how their anecdotal, exceptional experience categorically proves the opposite. Men tend to draw upon the larger, more empirical meta-observations whether they agree or not, but a woman will almost universally rely upon her isolated personal experience and cling to it as gospel.

Do you think that maybe at 17 you might lack some critical insight that time and experience would give you?

 

[Thundernuts]

Do you think that maybe at 17 you might lack some critical insight that time and experience would give you?

Seriously.

From my dealings of 17 women in high school, most if not all of them are too naive, they either think they know everything or just believe their situation is different.

Anyways don't stay up too late BBbardot its a school night.

 

[DJDamage]

Do you think that maybe at 17 you might lack some critical insight that time and experience would give you?

Owned.

The fact of the matter is that when a woman thinks that her man is the type of guy that is honest and doesn't play games, that's game.

Everything that comes out of a man's mouth, up until he gets laid is game. That is his prerogative to get laid and the more natural it seems (meaning the less it looks like he is trying aka having confidence to pull it off) the better the game he is running.

A Woman on the other hand sh1t tests the man from the time she first meets him until he passes all her tests where she finally agrees to spread her legs for him. So in actuality women also run the filtering out game where the majority of men end up failing.

The rules are there, you just need to know how to play/understand the game better.

 

[Korrupt]

Okay, the only reason I am still putting up with this girls sh!t is because I don't have any other options at this time (working on it, a first date on Sunday with another girl). We were scheduled to get together Monday, calls me and tells me she's exhausted and tonight (Tuesday) would be better. This is good news because my Mondays are busy as hell and I was exhausted at the end of the day as well. Today she calls me saying her friend is leaving to go overseas so she HAS to hang out with her today and wants to know if I want to go to some party with her and her two friends, I tell her I'm not interested and rather just chill. She tells me she'll call me back...

Hour later I get a call saying I should come over around 10 because she's going to spend some time with her friend, then we can do something after. Around 9 I get a call saying that instead of just leaving her friends place, she hasn't even gone and now wants to know if I want to come over around f*cking 12 and spend the night. I tell her maybe and that I'll let her know. I also tell her that we should have just scheduled for another day if she's got all this sh!t going on. She asks if tomorrow (Wednesday) is good, I tell say "maybe" and she replies "I'll talk to you later Korrupt," and hangs up the phone. What a f*cking kunt.

Short text convo ensues:

Me: You should have called me earlier and I'm busy tomorrow.
Her: You didn't say you were busy just on the phone. You said you could tomorrow, but whatever.
Her: You have been a complete d!ck lately, and I'm happy I haven't slept with you yet because if I had I'd be regretting it now. I dunno what your deal has been since friday.
Me: Haha you wouldn't have regretted anything.
Her: Cause you know me so well..
Me: Lemme know when you're leaving your friends house and I'll come over. (Yes, a mistake because of my horniness)
Her: Okay.

So I'm all up for heading over at 11, getting there at 12 and spending the night. I get all my sh!t together and get gas for my car. I'm ready to get a call or text at 11 telling me she's leaving her friends place. I get a call at 11:15 and she tells me she's now exhausted but I can still come over if I want to. Hmm... It's late as f*ck and she's tired. F*ck no. I tell her it's too late and if she's not going to be up for it there's no reason for me to come over. Tells me she'll call me tomorrow and blah blah I'm a f*cking kunt whatever. B!tch literally f*cked up my ENTIRE day.. And I let her do it. Boy I must have a lot to learn. Funny thing is the girl who I have a date with on Sunday got in touch with me and asked if I wanted to do something tonight. Guess what? I had to tell her I was going to see a friend at 9 so I couldn't do anything tonight.

I'm actually so frustrated by this kunt that I'm thinking of nexting her without even having a back up girl and before I've layed her.

 

[BBbardot]

It’s endlessly entertaining (and predictable) to see how often women’s (and feminized men’s) default response to anything they disagree with in regards to gender dynamics is met with a personalization to the contrary. Even as young as 17, it’s always the “not-in-my-case” story about how their anecdotal, exceptional experience categorically proves the opposite. Men tend to draw upon the larger, more empirical meta-observations whether they agree or not, but a woman will almost universally rely upon her isolated personal experience and cling to it as gospel.

Do you think that maybe at 17 you might lack some critical insight that time and experience would give you?

actually no
please just argue what i said. Not the person. Why are you unable to do so? i don't get it.

 

[BBbardot]

Owned.

The fact of the matter is that when a woman thinks that her man is the type of guy that is honest and doesn't play games, that's game.

Everything that comes out of a man's mouth, up until he gets laid is game. That is his prerogative to get laid and the more natural it seems (meaning the less it looks like he is trying aka having confidence to pull it off) the better the game he is running.

A Woman on the other hand sh1t tests the man from the time she first meets him until he passes all her tests where she finally agrees to spread her legs for him. So in actuality women also run the filtering out game where the majority of men end up failing.

The rules are there, you just need to know how to play/understand the game better.

yeah I totally agree with that.
beleive me or not i thought we were in the " how to punish her for talking to her ex behind my back" thread, oops.
so nvm what i said. I was talking about when you're in a relationship and you have a conflict.
obviousely not when you want to gt in her panties. Like i said in an earlier post on this thread he should just try harder to make her hot for him thats all.

 

[runner83]

actually no
please just argue what i said. Not the person. Why are you unable to do so? i don't get it.

Actually, he did it and pretty convincingly. RT owns you.

To the OP:

From a review of the transcript, you are found guilty of:

- Putting up with a girl who won't put out, and who is now using s*x as a bargaining chip.

- Failing to set definite date times and putting up with multiple flakiness on one night.

You are sentenced to a stint in the Roseypalm penitentiary, Jack-offin-ville, Florida.

Release date will be determined by when you man the fvck up and stop putting up with b/s from this girl who won't put out and go get girls who do, as judged by a jury of your peers.

May God have mercy on your soul.

RT, you are found guilty of attempting to argue reality with a girl. You are sentenced to a lifetime of marital bliss with a woman, who like all of us, knows you are the fvckin' man. :rockon:

Case closed.

 

[dj_china]

actually no
please just argue what i said. Not the person. Why are you unable to do so? i don't get it.

I'm going to have to agree with what RT said (the argument). but I agree with you that discrediting you because you're 17 was low.

 

[dj_china]

Okay, the only reason I am still putting up with this girls sh!t is because I don't have any other options at this time (working on it, a first date on Sunday with another girl). We were scheduled to get together Monday, calls me and tells me she's exhausted and tonight (Tuesday) would be better. This is good news because my Mondays are busy as hell and I was exhausted at the end of the day as well. Today she calls me saying her friend is leaving to go overseas so she HAS to hang out with her today and wants to know if I want to go to some party with her and her two friends, I tell her I'm not interested and rather just chill. She tells me she'll call me back...

Hour later I get a call saying I should come over around 10 because she's going to spend some time with her friend, then we can do something after. Around 9 I get a call saying that instead of just leaving her friends place, she hasn't even gone and now wants to know if I want to come over around f*cking 12 and spend the night. I tell her maybe and that I'll let her know. I also tell her that we should have just scheduled for another day if she's got all this sh!t going on. She asks if tomorrow (Wednesday) is good, I tell say "maybe" and she replies "I'll talk to you later Korrupt," and hangs up the phone. What a f*cking kunt.

Short text convo ensues:

Me: You should have called me earlier and I'm busy tomorrow.
Her: You didn't say you were busy just on the phone. You said you could tomorrow, but whatever.
Her: You have been a complete d!ck lately, and I'm happy I haven't slept with you yet because if I had I'd be regretting it now. I dunno what your deal has been since friday.
Me: Haha you wouldn't have regretted anything.
Her: Cause you know me so well..
Me: Lemme know when you're leaving your friends house and I'll come over. (Yes, a mistake because of my horniness)
Her: Okay.

So I'm all up for heading over at 11, getting there at 12 and spending the night. I get all my sh!t together and get gas for my car. I'm ready to get a call or text at 11 telling me she's leaving her friends place. I get a call at 11:15 and she tells me she's now exhausted but I can still come over if I want to. Hmm... It's late as f*ck and she's tired. F*ck no. I tell her it's too late and if she's not going to be up for it there's no reason for me to come over. Tells me she'll call me tomorrow and blah blah I'm a f*cking kunt whatever. B!tch literally f*cked up my ENTIRE day.. And I let her do it. Boy I must have a lot to learn. Funny thing is the girl who I have a date with on Sunday got in touch with me and asked if I wanted to do something tonight. Guess what? I had to tell her I was going to see a friend at 9 so I couldn't do anything tonight.

I'm actually so frustrated by this kunt that I'm thinking of nexting her without even having a back up girl and before I've layed her.

I don't think going to her place and not fvcking is necessarily a bad thing. if anything, it guarantees a lay in the future because she now thinks its not just sex you want. I probably would've showed up at like 1am and brought a movie, mention nothing about sex, probably end up falling asleep together before the movie ends, and have some nice sex in the morning.