She demands a 5th date out to dinner prior to banging

[mrgoodstuff]

Escalating to the dinner date is a lose. If she has not shown desire by now then she's not going to show it. You should've at least made out with her at this point, like made it to 2nd base...

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I think she knows you only want to get laid and are not really concerned for her herself. She's probably caught between generally liking you, but not wanting to be used for a cheap lay. I think she wants someone willing to build a future with her (family, kids, etc).

That's why you want to project the image of having a potential future with the girl unless it's clear she's down to hook up

 

[BillyPilgrim]

This is a flawed sentiment by many men all over this forum. While you should be able to bang most women within three dates, it isn’t guaranteed. More importantly, it is not correlated to interest level. Some of the most consistent plates and all three of my long term girlfriends since becoming red pilled have waited a bit longer for sex. Usually a few more dates.

What guys need to understand is that patience is the key to women. It is a marathon not a sprint. Most guys operating on SMV get laid by luck because they are only able to keep a woman around for a couple weeks. When you operate in a more measured fashion and truly understand game, they stick around longer. Years and months as opposed to days and weeks. “Frame” is actually having the power to do the dumping.

I've found that quality women do tend to want to wait longer, but if they want to wait too long of a time the risk of nothing ever happening is so great that it's not worth pursuing. I try to get a feel over text for this (what speed limit towards sex they will tolerate). All of my LTR's happened with sex within 3 dates. If sex didn't happen within 3 dates, it didn't happen at all.

 

[PRW63]

That's why you want to project the image of having a potential future with the girl unless it's clear she's down to hook up

"Project the image" of having a potential future?
Or..
Actually have a potential future?

In other words,...lying to her to get laid?,...or actually have it be true?

 

[BillyPilgrim]

"Project the image" of having a potential future?
Or..
Actually have a potential future?

In other words,...lying to her to get laid?,...or actually have it be true?

Both. True to some extent and also exaggerated. The truth is, you never know for sure how things will end up.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

I've found that quality women do tend to want to wait longer, but if they want to wait too long of a time the risk of nothing ever happening is so great that it's not worth pursuing. I try to get a feel over text for this (what speed limit towards sex they will tolerate). All of my LTR's happened with sex within 3 dates. If sex didn't happen within 3 dates, it didn't happen at all.

Think it's even worth trying for the 5th date then, or is it pretty much a no-go?

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Think it's even worth trying for the 5th date then, or is it pretty much a no-go?

I say go with it since in this case you cancelled/rescheduled and she is showing renewed enthusiasm. Just be sure to escalate as smoothly as you can.

 

[PRW63]

Both. True to some extent and also exaggerated. The truth is, you never know for sure how things will end up.

You can't have both. I'm talking about your objective motives,....not how it maybe might turn out in the end.

 

[bat soup]

Man ive never ever ever gone past 2 dates prior bang.. Mostly are in one date.. Op situation looks like a girl offering transactional sex.. When its transactional theres never be a real intimacy.. Good lord, im quick to get bored by girls manipulation, i tend to ghost them without closure.. Let alone a 5th date?? What else is there to say on the date? Topic about Her panties size?

Sometimes it can take a bit longer, but what's important is that there is forward momentum.

I think once you start going backwards, it's done.

 

[metalwater]

You can't have both. I'm talking about your objective motives,....not how it maybe might turn out in the end.

some moral dilemmas will block some men, and that is a good thing. this one might not be one of those. because you would or might accept her for an LTR and even permanent if she feels and looks good while treating you well and doing that consistently. That's the vibe, you are available if she is the one, but your standards are high. It's not a lie, it is actually true (...). So no dilemma, always present that you would if she is. Don't ever compromise on your standards. The result is you will probably not encounter any that fit your standards quickly and will, unfortunately, be forced to try out many.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

OP, now I have read everything here and in the other thread of yours.

I don't know about the other DJs on here, but from my own experience, 3 (three) dates are maximum time for sex to happen. If, for whatever reasons, I can't fvck her at the 3rd date, then 99,999% I never will because her Interest Level in me would drop close to zero by then.

The fact you prolonged the entire courtship to the 5th date means you need to learn a lot more about the art of escalation, OP.

Remember: Whenever you fail to fvck a girl, she'll find another guy to do it for her.

This is completely, completely wrong.

2 of the best long term relationships I have ever had sex happened on dates 4 and 6. If I would have stuck to these stupid rules I would have missed out.

We also fvcked like rabbits in both of them and these women were both completely head over heels for me.

 

[Poonstra]

What guys need to understand is that patience is the key to women.

This ^^^
Anybody questioning this advice should go and see what Pook had to say about it.

Patience: What truly makes a Don Juan

I have observed guys that had it all (looks, confidence, experience, and even interest from the women). I was envious of these guys for they seemed to know what they were doing and knew how to do it well. I was in awe of how they could be so smooth with the ladies. Their abilities amazed me...

www.sosuave.net

 

[PRW63]

some moral dilemmas will block some men, and that is a good thing. this one might not be one of those. because you would or might accept her for an LTR and even permanent if she feels and looks good while treating you well and doing that consistently. That's the vibe, you are available if she is the one, but your standards are high. It's not a lie, it is actually true (...). So no dilemma, always present that you would if she is. Don't ever compromise on your standards. The result is you will probably not encounter any that fit your standards quickly and will, unfortunately, be forced to try out many.

I agree with that, but it isn't what I am seeing in this case.

My principle is this:

1. If a guy just wants to get laid then look for "hoes" and "thots" and knock yourself out. You'll have an easier time, less frustrated, and she will probably satisfy you more in bed. I don't personally think that ends well in the long run but at least your are consistent and you aren't emotionally/mentally "damaging" someone who isn't already damaged or does not want that as their lifestyle.
2. There is still a segment of society that still believes in abstinence until marriage, or at least a solid LTR has formed. Anyone who has the strength to pull that one off successfully deserves the kudos. But if someone doesn't approve of that or thinks it is nonsense,...then just don't date them. Simple, problem solved. But they aren't wrong or devious or manipulating anyone by trying to maintain what they believe in.

I think that very last sentence is the sticking point here. If a woman wants to wait until marraige or at least until it is a stabile LTR with a strong emotional bond,...she isn't manipulating anyone, deceiving anyone, or trying to "steel their frame",...she is just trying to live by her own principles and survive in a world where most live without principles.

 

[PRW63]

This is completely, completely wrong.

2 of the best long term relationships I have ever had sex happened on dates 4 and 6. If I would have stuck to these stupid rules I would have missed out.

We also fvcked like rabbits in both of them and these women were both completely head over heels for me.

Yea,...it is just a stupid rule from the 1970's PUA community at the peak of the "Free Love" movement,...also called the Sexual Revolution. Yes, it is based somewhat on statistics and averages, but it is still a generality and nothing but a generality. It is more true when applied to an amoral demographic, but as soon as it is applied to groups that hold to particular sets of moral values they blow the whole thing out of the water.

 

[Velasco]

2 of the best long term relationships I have ever had sex happened on dates 4 and 6. If I would have stuck to these stupid rules I would have missed out.

would have slept with them on date 1, had you done things right and/or no obstacles.

This was his quality girl on date 2 (only made out with her on date 1)

We escalated and were making out on the couch, but after sucking on her tits for a little she timidly pushed me away.

sluts also give LMR when they're not horny enough...if you didn't know

Most of or all the girls you've been with, had you done things right on Day 1 (or had there not been some insurmountable obstacle that forced you to delay things until later), you could've bedded on Day 1.

Girls Who Want to Sleep with You Usually Know It Right Away

When you walk up, and she looks up at you, she knows if she could go to bed with you later. What comes after is simply leading her there, and making her feel allowed to go. There are two schools of thought when it comes to sex. One school of thought is what you might call the 'normal guy...

www.girlschase.com

Now she's playing hard to get cuz she doesn't want to think of herself as easy (funny when you point out to them, that you would have fcked them on first meet had it not been for X factor (logistics/cckblock most of the time) cuz it destroys the narrative they're trying to build (that they're not easy).

 

[BackInTheGame78]

would have slept with them on date 1, had you done things right and/or no obstacles.

This was his quality girl on date 2 (only made out with her on date 1)

sluts also give LMR when they're not horny enough...if you didn't know

Most of or all the girls you've been with, had you done things right on Day 1 (or had there not been some insurmountable obstacle that forced you to delay things until later), you could've bedded on Day 1.

Girls Who Want to Sleep with You Usually Know It Right Away

When you walk up, and she looks up at you, she knows if she could go to bed with you later. What comes after is simply leading her there, and making her feel allowed to go. There are two schools of thought when it comes to sex. One school of thought is what you might call the 'normal guy...

www.girlschase.com

Now she's playing hard to get cuz she doesn't want to think of herself as easy (funny when you point out to them, that you would have fcked them on first meet had it not been for X factor (logistics/cckblock most of the time) cuz it destroys the narrative they're trying to build (that they're not easy).

Maybe but then that brings up a whole nother level of crap you have to deal with many times with them thinking it is moving too fast, etc etc etc...

I'm not thirsty like that. I can wait a few dates. I had other women I was banging while dating them for the first few months.

 

[PRW63]

I'm not thirsty like that. I can wait a few dates. I had other women I was ...

You can even be not thirsty and wait a few dates even without the others. I know I don't have to have others on the side to not be thirsty. I guess I have disciplined myself to not be thirsty in general. I keep a clear head.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I agree with that, but it isn't what I am seeing in this case.

My principle is this:

1. If a guy just wants to get laid then look for "hoes" and "thots" and knock yourself out. You'll have an easier time, less frustrated, and she will probably satisfy you more in bed. I don't personally think that ends well in the long run but at least your are consistent and you aren't emotionally/mentally "damaging" someone who isn't already damaged or does not want that as their lifestyle.
2. There is still a segment of society that still believes in abstinence until marriage, or at least a solid LTR has formed. Anyone who has the strength to pull that one off successfully deserves the kudos. But if someone doesn't approve of that or thinks it is nonsense,...then just don't date them. Simple, problem solved. But they aren't wrong or devious or manipulating anyone by trying to maintain what they believe in.

I think that very last sentence is the sticking point here. If a woman wants to wait until marraige or at least until it is a stabile LTR with a strong emotional bond,...she isn't manipulating anyone, deceiving anyone, or trying to "steel their frame",...she is just trying to live by her own principles and survive in a world where most live without principles.

Out of curiosity PRW63, what are you seeing here?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You can even be not thirsty and wait a few dates even without the others. I know I don't have to have others on the side to not be thirsty. I guess I have disciplined myself to not be thirsty in general. I keep a clear head.

Yeah that's true but it is much easier for many guys to maintain this when they have other women.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

Well, we bucked! @BeExcellent @EyeBRollin @BackInTheGame78 @Barrister @2Rocky very sound advice. I think just going and having fun in a public location was all this girl really wanted (as you all said, she was literally overtly communicating this). Thanks!