Seeking advise with older women situation

[cykeson]

Wise DJs,

First time poster here, although read this board for some time. I humbly come here and raise my hands up in saying i really need some sound advise on my situation...

I was pursuing a women 5 years older than me from last September, she's the architect and i'm the engineer for a project. Initially, when i asked her out she said yes. We had lunch (and had a good time) and proceed to have coffee. However, when i told her my age, her face dropped and i guess in that shock the whole thing turned a little awkward then. As the date ended, i thought i've kissed my chances goodbye.

But as we meet on the following weeks, i've received more and more positive vibes from her. She would just stare at me and when i asked her "What?", she'd just smile and walk away without saying a word. In fact, at one point i told her "don't be too quick to dismiss this boy" and she replied "i didn't dismiss you" while smiling coyly. So i thought that was game on.

To cut the story short, after couple of calls, messages, cards, Christmas gifts and subtle flirting (calling nicknames) which all she replied... I asked her out again. Last January i brought her to a place where she's never been but always wanted to explore. Suffice to say, she texted me to say she had a good time. I thought it was all going good..

Till 2 weeks ago when i gave her flowers and a homemade card. I was trying to show her i'm serious to take it to the next level. That i wasn't playing around... She was initially happy to receive it, but she said she was "surprised" (BS, she KNOWS i'm pursuing). So i gave her a call the next day, that's where she blew me off. While she admitted to having an interest in me back then (when i said "don't be too quick to dismiss this boy") apparently she changed her mind right after that. She never/couldn't explain why, and i was confused. And it was strange that if she changed her mind then, why then would she still entertain my advances later on?

So as i instinctively did what all DJ has mentioned before, where i told her i don't think i could even be her friend, i decided to do the Ganji (cut off all contacts technique) on her now. A week has passed...

I'll be seeing her for the first time after this incident in 2 weeks time for our project meeting... Should i still hope that through Ganji there's a possibility she would change her mind again and continue with Ganji? And how should i appear to her when i see her then? I'm seeking advise to raise back the interest level... I know many DJs would probably tell me to forget about her... I will. But i'm still wanting to give this girl some grace period. I'd do anything i can to have her change her mind back and realize what a loss she'll be having. She's 30 and younger guys like me are once in a blue moon. Don't know what you got till it's gone....

So, while i do know the rule of thumb is NEVER put her as a priority, but deep down i have that desire to have her come around... Advise please.

 

[Joe Stud]

Act friendly but disinterested & a bit mysterious, as though you met another woman. Even if shes an AW, she will crave the attention you gave her. But dont be giving that to her again. I bet she will start up again.

 

[sodbuster]

SOME women have a mental block about dating younger guys. My ex wife was 7 months older than I was. Years later, if I mentioned her robbing the cradle-it still bothered her. You can't change that in a womans mind,so don't try. Do what you want,but don't be surprised if nothing works.

 

[Allurre]

Cut off all the BOYFRIEND moves. Just stick to keeping her attraction level high and constant.

Throw away the idea of taking things to the next level as she seems like age is a determining factor (currently) to whether or not you'd make a BOYFRIEND.

 

[Kailex]

Till 2 weeks ago when i gave her flowers and a homemade card. I was trying to show her i'm serious to take it to the next level. That i wasn't playing around... She was initially happy to receive it, but she said she was "surprised" (BS, she KNOWS i'm pursuing). So i gave her a call the next day, that's where she blew me off. While she admitted to having an interest in me back then (when i said "don't be too quick to dismiss this boy") apparently she changed her mind right after that. She never/couldn't explain why, and i was confused. And it was strange that if she changed her mind then, why then would she still entertain my advances later on?

By my count, you only had... 2 dates in about a month's time??? Correct me if I'm wrong... and then you gave her not only flowers, but a HOMEMADE card?

And then the NEXT day she started dismissing you? See the correlation here? It was the day after you tried to show her how SERIOUS you were that she got "turned off" and started blowing you off.

She entertains your advances to keep you orbiting now, because now she KNOWS what your intentions are and therefore, there is no challenge. You are supposed to keep up an air of mystery and intrigue... but you laid all your cards out on the table and showed your full hand. Go back to being the guy you were before the flowers/cards.

And please, don't do that again after 2 or 3 dates. She should be getting YOU things, not the other way around.

 

[cykeson]

Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate it, really.

Joe Stud: Yeah, gonna put that into practice. However i'm a little fuzzy on the whole being friendly but not giving her my attention bit. What's the line between those two?

sodbuster: In modern society, quite a number women are actually ok with a younger guy. Having said that, you are valid in that the old fashioned women are the ones with the mental block. They just couldn't accept a younger guy just for the sole reason of him being younger.. nothing to do with chemistry, experience, financial security, etc... Just age.

Allure: Yes, as Joe Stud there mentioned, i'm gonna be friendly but appear to be over her. I do wonder of the possibility of keeping her interest level high and constant, now that the whole thing have gone to sh!t (i.e: she knows i'm into her). Care to show some pointers? You've also mentioned "age is a determining factor (currently)", i'm quite intrigue by the word "currently". It'll be great if you can elaborate a little on that.

Kailex: yeah, I kick myself in the teeth everyday with that. I know, i've been like an AFC with that maneuver. I was fooled in the whole V-day hype, i thought it was romantic. Damn it, i made that mistake. I guess it shocked her, but i thought i was making a statement of intent (like you said, being "SERIOUS"). I had the whole notion completely wrong by trying to show her i'm serious in my pursuit of her... You are right, my cards are exposed. By going back to being the person before i gave the flowers/card, is that the best thing to do? I mean, my hands are already exposed....

In general, i know she had an interest in me back then... By cutting contacts, improving myself and having mental strength (from you guys), i hope when i see her again next week, she'll notice the difference and raise her interest level again. I'd like to ask one thing though to everyone.... Do you think i can still salvage this situation of mine or it's good as dead and buried?

 

[Kailex]

I don't know that there is much that you can do to rework the frame here.

Like I said before, you showed her all of your cards and laid them out on the table.

The only thing you could possibly do is try to reframe the situation by becoming unavailable or showing her that you've moved onto better things. But even by then, her IL is so low, that I don't know whether it's worth it to go through all of the effort... specially if she's working with you on a project.

My guess is that you haven't called her, and that neither has she called you.
Of course, DON'T call her, because that's exactly what she is expecting you to do. And don't just "appear" to be over... BE OVER HER.

Chalk this one up to experience, and please... NO MORE handmade cards.

 

[f283000]

Let's count down the mistakes

But as we meet on the following weeks, i've received more and more positive vibes from her. She would just stare at me and when i asked her "What?", she'd just smile and walk away without saying a word.

You think James Bond would ask "what" to a woman that is looking at him with interest? you made yourself seem a bit naive and inexperienced there in the eyes of an older woman that you were trying to come off as the opposite. She is obviously checking you out why are you acting like you are new to the game?

The following advice is from my own experience from dating several women from work (3 in my last job alone) other people might give you different advice. A lot of the following shouldn't be used at other settings.

THEM STARING AT YOU
My own tactic when it comes to them staring at work is simple. Ignore it, don't look back, don't acknowledge it, pretend she doesn't even exist. Instead use it to your advantage. Walk in front of her with confidence, eyes looking straight ahead, confident smile on your face. Let her stare at you and glaze at your good looks and confidence. Let her become entranced by your sense of mystery. This will only make you more attractive to her. Women are attracted to men that are mysterious and men they cannot have.

Use the knowledge that she is giving you the looks to your advantage to one day walk up to her confidently, strike up a random chat, tell her you are doing something on the weekend and ask her if she wants to come. She will likely say yes and will be very happy for it. If she says no find a new project no big deal.

From my own experience I found out that if you acknowledge or act too fast when they show interest at work that itself shows that you are a horny single guy that is too willing to get involved with any woman giving him looks. Her whole interest level will drop to the ground right there and then. Work is different then let's say the street where you might only have a few moments to strike up a conversation with a hottie that's looking at you before she leaves and you never see her again. In my opinion at work it's better to keep them waiting. Keep them staring at you for some time. Make them wonder if you are single and make them anticipate for the moment you ask them out. Until then pretend you are living in your own world and let her want to be part of it.

DO NOT BEFRIEND THEM, STAY PROFESSIONAL
Do not become their friends, do not chat them up, do not give them your #. Keep them at a distance till the moment you ask them out. Don't kill your aura of mystery by letting them get to know you IN THE WORKPLACE THROUGH A WORK RELATIONSHIP rather than A MAN/WOMAN RELATIONSHIP.

Another thing is that you are not at a club or a bar you are at work. Women want manliness in their men. For you to become involved in staring games and flirting at work takes away from your professionalism thus taking away from your manliness. You don't want to give THE OUTSIDE OF WORK "YOU" till after you are outside of work. Don't give them the satisfaction of you showing them the real you not until they agree to go out with you.

In fact, at one point i told her "don't be too quick to dismiss this boy" and she replied "i didn't dismiss you" while smiling coyly. So i thought that was game on.

Don't ever qualify yourself to a woman that's not how it works. You are supposed to get them to qualify themselves to you. Why are you making her feel like she is the prize? Women are attracted to men that think of themselves and act like they are the prize to be won not the other way around.

To cut the story short, after couple of calls, messages, cards, Christmas gifts and subtle flirting (calling nicknames) which all she replied... I asked her out again. Last January i brought her to a place where she's never been but always wanted to explore. Suffice to say, she texted me to say she had a good time. I thought it was all going good..

Why are you rewarding her with cards and gifts? what has she given you? Nothing reeks of desperation more than trying to buy affection. Nothing makes you look more like a nice guy than trying to buy affection. When a woman knows they got you in their pocket they lose all interest and one of the ways they know is when chumps start buying them stuff without even being in a relationship yet.

Till 2 weeks ago when i gave her flowers and a homemade card. I was trying to show her i'm serious to take it to the next level. That i wasn't playing around... She was initially happy to receive it, but she said she was "surprised" (BS, she KNOWS i'm pursuing).

Correct. Women are happy to receive gifts from the nice guys that pursue them but that doesn't mean she will let you in her pants. You didn't show her you were a sexual being and she stuck around playing along long enough to find that out.

So i gave her a call the next day, that's where she blew me off. While she admitted to having an interest in me back then (when i said "don't be too quick to dismiss this boy") apparently she changed her mind right after that. She never/couldn't explain why, and i was confused.

Basically you came off as still a boy in her mind with the way you acted. Better luck next time this one is over.

My final advice for you would be to avoid dating co-workers. If you're good looking and single it might be inevitable but do understand the risks. Do understand that you will feel like _____ when it doesn't work out and it ends badly and you have to look at this woman everyday at work. Most people don't want to see a person that rejected them every again but now imagine how bad it will be seeing a woman that rejected you at work almost everyday.

 

[sodbuster]

Well, Just live your life and see if she comes around. But read anti-dumps machine posts. He'll explain alot. Make her come to you,then go on. BUT once she knows she can have you,she'll think she can do better and not want you. Always play harder to get than NUN at a church social. After the valentines day card[a chump holliday],you are probably done. But the other posters have good advice[from a different frame]

PM me here at the board if you have other questions,your link didn't come up

 

[cykeson]

Thanks a lot everyone. I see that i'm looking at it the wrong way, and my mistakes are probably irreversible. Deep down, i came here probably hoping and wishing there's something i can do to turn this around. That i still can salvage this. All your advises are sound, and all are possible. But after thinking through, especially what f283000 & Kailex said.... i guess i'll probably need a miracle

It's just that it's hard, when you really like this girl... I'm still learning the ropes and trying to let go of her. That's for the best, but i wish it's easier.

Thanks again everyone. Promise you i'll give an update on Thursday when i see her. :rockon:

 

[Joe Stud]

Relatively friendly but aloof. Like you have started bangin another chick. Look good, smell good, act confident.

 

[cykeson]

She called me today, work related. But over the line, she was all giggling and seemingly making it all like the usual. This time, i held my power. As she giggles there, i didn't entertain her. I was direct and to the point, as professional as can be. And i made sure i end the conversation first after the message was cut across.

So i'm all prepped for the meeting on Thursday. Gonna look suave... AND i won't join her for lunch this time. Usually we'll head out in the project group for lunch. Usually she'll sit with me for lunch. This time, i'll spend my time elsewhere and instead use lunch hour to meet other women.

 

[Joe Stud]

ok good so far. but dont forget: disinterested... not bitter. Now if theres another HB who is attending the meeting, it's always good to be busy talking to her. If you have business with the other HB, it's cool to lure her into sitting next to you. SDhe must come to you though

 

[DondottaJuanpappa]

I think you subconsciously was trying to buy her approval being that you are 5 years younger by gifts and christmas cards which she knew all along, and that my friend is a no no. Just move on to the next. Its over for you to, just being real. The term is cop and blow bro. lol.

pimpin.

 

[DondottaJuanpappa]

Shes playing with your brain and you dont even know it.

She called me today, work related. But over the line, she was all giggling and seemingly making it all like the usual. This time, i held my power. As she giggles there, i didn't entertain her. I was direct and to the point, as professional as can be. And i made sure i end the conversation first after the message was cut across.

So i'm all prepped for the meeting on Thursday. Gonna look suave... AND i won't join her for lunch this time. Usually we'll head out in the project group for lunch. Usually she'll sit with me for lunch. This time, i'll spend my time elsewhere and instead use lunch hour to meet other women.

 

[cykeson]

Quick one JoeStud, the golden rule to NOT come off as bitter is to be friendly of sort, in the sense like we're talking normally and with a friendly smile Disinterested in HER, but not UNFRIENDLY, right? I do have this brooding tendency, i guess i better not appear that way on Thursday. One problem i have is, in my project group, there are no HB. Only a very plain jane in fact. Would it have the same effect on her, if i were to seem close and having fun with the plain jane? Or what if within the small group, they acknowledge me as the "good looking" or "very eligible" one? (weird as it is, it's the guys in the group who said that). Would that bear any effect on her?

DondottaJuanpappa: You nailed me in the head with that. I was never like this with the younger women. It's this older one whom i seem to make the damn mistakes. She's screwing with my mind, but i won't let her do so anymore.

 

[Kailex]

Quick one JoeStud, the golden rule to NOT come off as bitter is to be friendly of sort, in the sense like we're talking normally and with a friendly smile Disinterested in HER, but not UNFRIENDLY, right? I do have this brooding tendency, i guess i better not appear that way on Thursday. One problem i have is, in my project group, there are no HB. Only a very plain jane in fact. Would it have the same effect on her, if i were to seem close and having fun with the plain jane? Or what if within the small group, they acknowledge me as the "good looking" or "very eligible" one? (weird as it is, it's the guys in the group who said that). Would that bear any effect on her?

Stop over-thinking the situation.
Why are you so worried about how she sees you or whether doing Action A leads to Result B?

Find other women and stop worrying about this one. It isn't worth your time and it's only stressing you further.

Want to know what to do? Treat her like the last girl YOU dumped... not vice versa. Treat her as if she had not been good for you and you decided to spin other plates, simply because she didn't make the cut. Be indifferent to her, but stop trying to play games to see what to do to pique her interest, because all you are doing is playing HER game.

Stop it. Stop brooding. Stop analyzing. Stop wondering about her.
MOVE ON.

There are more girls/women/alien chicks out there who deserve a chance at you.

This woman lost interest, but guess what, you're going to lose interest in her, RIGHT?

Close this small chapter in your book of life.
The sooner you come to realizing that, the better off you will be. If not, I guarantee you'll be a nervous wreck at that meeting and will stumble over any of these "plans" like a bumbling idiot.

I'll say it one more time, in case you missed it... MOVE ON.
From now on, it's strictly professional... and that's IT.

I said it in my earlier post... don't act like you are over her... BE over her.

 

[Joe Stud]

the plain jane is helpful, but not potent enough to really make a diff. Just relax, and be a fun guy to be around. This one is just for fun... better than being bored at work.

 

[cykeson]

Thank you Kailex for slapping my face to wake up. Yeah.. i got too engross in handling the "first" encounter with her tomorrow, since that issue (where she blew me off), i guess i was too nervous. The first hurdle is the hardest :/ You see, for some odd reason it's not like i want to "get back" at her, but more of trying to show that i'm well off without her. That i'm doing everything right in the book in getting over the girl who dump you. Didn't occur to me that by figuring hard on that, i'm still kinda slightly obsessed with her.

i appreciate all the comments and advise... Tomorrow is gonna be a tough one, but i'll do my best to remember everything you guys pitch in. By that, i mean to just get over her for good.

Thanks.

 

[cykeson]

Hey, just to let you know the outcome based on all advises and support.

So today i met her for the first time since that incident. I remembered everything you guys said.... You guys are right. While waiting for other workmates, she was trying to get my attention.

Tossing her hair, tying and untying them (she does that ONLY whenever she's alone with me) as if doing a hair commercial, initiates talk with me, sat close, walking close to me or trying to be within my "viewpoint", getting (butting) into my conversations when i was talking to other people, etc...

BUT I KEPT MY POWER. I spoke to her professionally, friendly but not in a close way and i kept my distance and make sure she initiates everything. I used to file her files and wrote a special name memo (with personalized color coded paper clips) before handing them over. But this time, it's just the same like everyone else. She kinda noticed and looked disappointed to not have her "special" delivery. Hehe. I went lunch separately from them, with another chick elsewhere. She never does this, but she called me and waited for me when i was a little late back from lunch. Usually i'm the one always on her beck and call (literally). Overall, i seem to be disinterested in her.

More importantly, i learned to just have fun and enjoy. I couldn't be bothered to whatever she's doing, and as Kailex once said... Don't appear to move on, BUT MOVE ON. You know what? End of the day, i did feel that. I looked at her and silently in my heart, i knew i have moved on. Whatever she does, however she looks at me or talk to me... Nada. I ain't feeling a thing.

So again, i like to thank everyone who contributed. You guys are right, and while it doesn't really matter if the purpose was salvaging this or helping me get over her... In my heart, i'm contented with the outcome. I came out, a better and more confident person.