Seeing girl with boyfriend

mikeraw

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Like everyone else, I have my ups, and I have my downs. I can go through weeks of not getting anything, and then I go through 3 or 4 chicks in one week. Anyways, I've discovered that the easiest chicks for me to get with are the ones that have boyfriends or are already married...

The latest one that I've been fooling around with has had a BF for over 3 years... he's currently in New Orleans in law school (i'm in Miami). I don't want anything serious with her, she's pretty and all, but I don't like her for anything serious... haven't banged her yet, but we're up to fingering and J/O... If I end up banging her, fine... if not, then whatever... anyways... I think that she wants to stop fooling around...

My question is: How do I get her to keep fooling around with her if she starts getting guilt trips... saing that what we're doing is not right and stuff... This is the point where I usually stop seeing taken chicks, but the truth is that I want to keep getting with her on the side, in the weekends, etc...

What do I come back with if she says that we should stop? I'm meeting her tomorrow, Monday, for lunch.

Thanks,
Mike
 

realsmoothie

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It's not right.

Besides that... go find yourself someone who ISN'T attached. There's plenty of single fish out there.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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If she doesn't have a ring on her finger, she's available. Just see her non-exclisively. Trust me, you're not twisting her arm into doing anything she doesn't already want to do.

And no more lunch dates either OK?
 

realsmoothie

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I'm not saying she's not available. If you think you can steal her, fine... but f*cking a chick who's currently with a guy is just lame, if you ask me.

Though you're probably not asking me... ;)
 

Latinoman

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Rollo Tomassi said:
If she doesn't have a ring on her finger, she's available. Just see her non-exclisively. Trust me, you're not twisting her arm into doing anything she doesn't already want to do.

And no more lunch dates either OK?
I agree 100% with this. Only marry women (or women that have an engagement ring) are unavailable.

However, that said...the likelihood of this woman repeating the behavior in the future are considerably higher than the other type of woman.
 

Latinoman

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MikeRaw...

Listen, don't waste your time. She is not worth the effort. If you have not had her yet...then forget about her.

Here is the thing...she has another man that due to the distance MUST be keeping her emotional aspects satisfied from time to time. So, why you want to waste your time "fingering" her when you can probably be with another woman that is more into sex?
 

tuxen

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I've found quite a few girls with boyfriends are willing to cheat and are quite easy to pick up.

I'm still undecided as to why this is. Either:

A) They are easier because i dont care if i fail

or

B) Girls are just as slutty as i think they are
 

Sinistar

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tuxen said:
I've found quite a few girls with boyfriends are willing to cheat and are quite easy to pick up. I'm still undecided as to why this is. Either:
A) They are easier because i dont care if i fail
or
B) Girls are just as slutty as i think they are
A & B.
 

Phyzzle

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C) Any remotely easy girl will have a boyfriend of sorts at all times. It's not like it's hard to get a bf, if you're willing to put out.
 

mikeraw

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Thanks for the advices

realsmoothie... i agree with you... it's unethical and dangerous and just plain lame to get with taken chicks, but they're easier than available chicks for me...

Oh:

D) They're bored with monotony of everyday interaction with their significant others. New guy comes along, no matter how boring, he's still new. New=Exciting.

Anyways... I don't want her in any other way except physical... and even if she did want to call it off, which she didn't during lunch, I wouldn't really care...

Anyways... off to Argentina tomorrow... they say that place is ridiculous... supermodel-looking chicks everywhere...
 

white sox bill

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mikeraw said:
realsmoothie... i agree with you... it's unethical and dangerous and just plain lame to get with taken chicks, but they're easier than available chicks for me...

Oh:

D) They're bored with monotony of everyday interaction with their significant others. New guy comes along, no matter how boring, he's still new. New=Exciting.

Anyways... I don't want her in any other way except physical... and even if she did want to call it off, which she didn't during lunch, I wouldn't really care...

Anyways... off to Argentina tomorrow... they say that place is ridiculous... supermodel-looking chicks everywhere...
Argentina--been there twice within 6 months...the women are fantastic!! Cheap prices..have fun!
 

joekerr31

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i've gone into this before, but ill explain it again, haha....

taken chics are INFINTELY easier to "get" with.
now why is that?

all you have to do is think back to your own relationships. people go into relationships like they go in to watch a movie. with great expectations and expected to be completely enthralled and to FORGET reality. most people anyway.

and thats all fine and dandy. the first few months are great. heck perhaps even six months in you're still tearing up the sheets and are all lovely dovey. after that however one of two things happen...

1) things just keep getting better nad better. you grow closer. you begin to see each other as the most trusted people in each others lives. etc. this is a great path, you may have found the one, and if it keeps up you'll get blissfully married and possibly live happily ever after.

2) the sparks start to die. you basically only do things for her so that she'll let you "get off" in her (note, not make love, not f*ck - get off). because that's all its really about anymore. she, being a woman, can't walk away without something being lined up. she's prepared to let the charade go on for 6, 12, even 18 months while looking for an opportunity to "move up" from you. if after 18 months the opportunity doesnt present itself, she might settle and start pushing you for marriage (thereby putting off the entire problem of your relationship for 15 years and 2 kids later, at which point she takes half of what you got and you get stuck paying for your life, her life, your kids lives that you rarely see, and your new girlfriends life).

now in scenario two it may sound as though its the guys fault. but its always a two way street. while he may lapse into only paying attention to his woman to get off, she is just as at fault for playing one hand on the table and one under (ie. searching for a better deal).

Soooo, after all that rambling, why is it easier to get taken chics? SIMPLE. 90% of them are UNHAPPY with their current bfs.

you might say - wait a second Joe, 90%, thats insanely high, it can't be right.

It is right and i'll tell you why. People go through life thinking that happiness can only be attained through external elements - money, cars, houses, kids, careers, spouses, looks, etc. - people go on thinking this way often into their 50s - and they are CONTINUALLY let down.

they buy a new car, but after 3 years are bored to sh*t of it. they get a new house nad after 5 years are b*tching about the repairs. they get a new job and after 6 months are *****ing about the new boss. they get some kids and after 12 years b*tch about how their kids don't cut the lawn. and on and on it goes...

so TRUST ME, about 90% of the people out there are dissatisfied with their lives.

suddenly a new shiny object comes along - YOU. at first its all innocent. casual chit chat. then some jokes. then some flirting. then some personal chit chat. then some consoling. then some more flirting. then some F*cking!

its not that the chics bf is a wanker (well, not completely). nor is it that she is a wh*re (well, not completely). its merely the fact that she is highly disastified with her life and like most peopel believes that disastifaction can be remedied not so much by evolving, maturing, and taking responsibility for her life, but rather by something new and shiny - YOU.

single chics are a COMPLETELY different attitude. single chics are often shy and nervous at first. they don't go home to positive reinforcement of a guy who wants to f*ck her (even if its just to get off). They go home to their cat, or whatever, look in the mirror nad blame the cellulite on their inner thigh (which no one else in the world ever sees) as the reason they are single.

it is 100 times easier to flirt with a taken chics because she OVERLY exhibits all the signs of interest. the single chic will give mixed messages - she will be shy sometimes, nervous other times, etc. - every statement she makes shes concerned with the implications of it. whereas the taken woman doens't really care about the outcome, she just wants your attention, and will flirt recklessly to get it.

now as for whether it is right or wrong to bang a taken chic, id argue there are two paths you can take.

1) do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. do you want someone banging your gf behind your back? if the answer is no, and you go and do that to someone else, then with due respect you aren't a man, your a parasite. :)

2) life is short, screwing feels good, so if some chic lets you screw her, so be it.

personally im a #1 kind of guy and that works for me. I'm a big fan of self respect, and I don't think you can truly have self respect when you treat others in a manner different than you would like to be treated.

i've got to say though i've been tempted by #2 many times, and am currently riding the line of the #2 situation. but i've never crossed the line.

Lots of chics cross the line into #2 which is why very few chics have a high level of self esteem and self respect and why they are so good at rationalize how their behavior isn't actually THEIR FAULT, but rather the result of some GUY.

anyway, any chic that cheats isn't cheating because her boyfriend is lame (yes yes, go ahead blast me, blame him for being an AFC). she's cheating becuase she hasn't matured to the point where she has taken responsibility for her own happiness. Mature women don't stay in relationships that are no longer working for them.

and you know, some will say no such women exist (ie. mature ones). but i whole heartedly disagree. they may be rare, but they exist - and if you catch one of them, you're set.

but any chic who cheats on her bf, trust me, whether its 6, 12, or 18 months down the road, she's going to cheat on you too. or marry you, have your kids, and divorce you 15 years later. hehe.

there are PLENTY of single women out there guys. they may not be as initially intriguing as the taken ones - the taken ones really know how to lure you in. but in the long run your odds of a catching a quality woman are much higher if you catch her when shes single first.

:up:
 

azanon

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joekerr31 said:
1) do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. do you want someone banging your gf behind your back? if the answer is no, and you go and do that to someone else, then with due respect you aren't a man, your a parasite. :)

2) life is short, screwing feels good, so if some chic lets you screw her, so be it.

personally im a #1 kind of guy and that works for me. I'm a big fan of self respect, and I don't think you can truly have self respect when you treat others in a manner different than you would like to be treated.
Nice post overall. I'm going to pick on this part though;

You're implying screwing someone else's girl, be it a girlfriend or a wife, is losing self respect, because you're mistreating her man? That would only be true, if the fact that she was screwing you was your fault, and not hers. She's the one that's supposed to say no, and if she doesn't, she messed up.

Pretty women simply will be approached and gamed by other men constantly. Its a given. When there's 2 men and one woman, its the woman's responsiblity to do the right thing.

I think its sort of redneck, to be honest, to get mad at some other guy for gaming your girl. If your girl leaves for another dude, get mad at the girl if you're gonna get mad at anyone, not the other dude.

So, self-respect would be if you had a girlfriend, and you didn't cheat on her because you made a committment. Single, you have no committments of your own to break. There's no such thing as a homewreaker except those who live inside said home.
 

joekerr31

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well i completely agree that its not hte third party that you should get upset with, but rather the one who had the commitment to you. that i would never dispute.

but that said, my personal belief (and its merely a personal opinion) is that to participate in an act that you know will bring someone else harm, simply for your own pleasure, is not of the highest moral standard.

and is there a chance that you may not even do any harm in the sense that the bf may never find out, or heck, he might not even care, perhaps they have an open relationship? sure. which adds ot the argument of why not just hit it.

but i believe that if you saw the damage that can be caused by cheating to some people, participating in the act, no matter how removed, would not be an option while maintaining self respect.

and yes, you can easily excuse the behavior by saying
- well, he's in a crappy relationship anyway, if i dont bang her someone else will, the damage will be caused either way
- or, if he's such a chump that getting cheating on destroys him, that's his own fault.
- etc.

and all of that may be true. but the reality is if you bang some dudes girlfriend and later found out that he blew his brains out after finding out she cheated - no rationale, no matter how well thought out, would make you feel good about yourself for being a party to that outcome.

the reality is, NOT banging a chic with a boyfriend guarantees that you are NOT party to any action which has a 99% chance of leading to harm for someone else.

banging a taken chic has an 80% + likelihood that you are actively participating in the breakdown process of relationship (no matter how f*cked up that relationship may be, or how unaware you are of the nature of the relationship).

i guess i just see NOT banging people in committed relationships as a safe way to go. there are plenty of available single women out there to bang.

I personally have no desire to take advantage of some AFC, who is already being taken advantage of by his girl. just because he's getting screwed over doesn't make me want to take advantage of the situation for my own personal gain.

but like i say, just a personal opinion. :p

to many folks have a 'dog eat dog' attitude and feel that AFCs deserver what they get. yes, the world may be that dog eat dog, but if i lead my life based on the rules of the world i wouldnt have much self respect personally :)
 

azanon

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I like the way you think jokerr in the sense that you argue your point of view very strongly (in the sense that its very rationale), and clearly. I can respect any point of view that is logical.

That being said:

In the real world, what i'm about to say would be horribly not politically correct, but since this is anon, here goes; I think self respect is overrated, because if you endulge too much in self accountability, then you're only weakening yourself. How is abiding by a list of things you cant do, for some self respect you cant even see, making you stronger? Why not just choose to be strong, period, without all the rules? I believe being strong, and valuable is a state of mind; not something you have to earn, or can lose by your actions.

It is a dog eat dog world, i know for a fact, because i'm living in it. If i play the game that way, then it would mandate, to some degree, that you are living in a state of denial by not accepting this reality. The dog will eat at you, but you wont bite back? If you're counting on Karma to equal the odds, I've found in my experience that it doesn't really exist. Folks just like to think that it does so they dont have to accept the reality that the world really isn't fair.
 

RedPill

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Let's not forget that most of the time there is no committed relationship. It's just something that chicks say to appear desired and popular. Especially the insecure hot ones. Or, similarly, one of her AFC placeholders is played up to be "the boyfriend" to make for a nice hassle-free rejection mechanism for her. Most guys immediately stop gaming when she says she has a boyfriend.

I'm all for not messing up a real relationship, but if she's truly committed (or wants to give off that perception), she'll either have a ring or make it clear she's off limits. Women who play the "in a relationship" card aren't near as convincing when it isn't true. If she's at all receptive to your advances after initially disclosing her "committed" status, it's game on.
 

joekerr31

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ah, your response leads us to the crux of the situation :)

my experience has been that if you stay on the road long enough it does reward you.

its easy to be dog eat dog. i was for a while in my life. it takes a lot more strength, i know, to be able to beat the dog at his own game while playing by your rules.

if it were easy everyone would do it :)

i would 100% agree with you that my perspective was flawed if there were no reward for hte self in it. if having self respect (in the manner to which I described it) didn't have a value GREATER than the satisfaction that came with doing whatever you wanted, then it would be foolish to choose the prior over hte latter.

my argument is that it actually leads to a more fulfilling life living by certain principles which include an empathetic view of others in the world.

you might not get to bang chics who are taken, but youll end up with chics who offer you a thousand times more than those types of chics could.

a statement which will leads us into the debate of whether such women exist, or whether all women are basically cut from the same cloth ;)

i know there are prize women out there, BUT, to click with those kinds of women you have to be of a frame of mind that accepts the road of empathy and kindness to others (a road which requires greater strenght in my opinion).

the dog eat dog road, although common, merely leads to survival at the expense of others - and i'd argue that's not much of a rewarding survival state. :)
 

mikeraw

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Fvck it. I just wanna hook up with as many chicks as possible... and the taken ones are the easiest for me. I was not raised to seek them out, but I neither was I encouraged to try drugs, smoke, and drink and I still did all those things and quit (except drinking. if i only believed in alcoholism...)

Anyways, just as I grew out of those things, I think I'll grow out of hooking up with unavailable chicks.

Hopefully...

If not, fvck it.

Anyways... This thread took a weird turn towards philosophy and morals. I just wanted some advice on how to reply to a girl if she gives me the "this isn't right" speech and I still wanna hook up with her.

Even though the discussion was interesting, it kinda went off on some tangents that didn't address my query, but thanks, anyways!
 

azanon

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mikeraw said:
Anyways... This thread took a weird turn towards philosophy and morals. I just wanted some advice on how to reply to a girl if she gives me the "this isn't right" speech and I still wanna hook up with her.

Even though the discussion was interesting, it kinda went off on some tangents that didn't address my query, but thanks, anyways!
Alright, Mr. Patient.

My advise is to simply not endulge in the discussion of whether it is right or wrong with her. Change the subject. Logically, she could be right in most cases, and if she's married, she's definitely right from a technical and moral standpoint. So if you involve yourself in the discussion, its like being in debate class where you were assigned to argue the losing position.

Example, she said "this isn't right". you say, "Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but i want to see you xxxx (ie: tomorrow after work)". Just enough pressure to keep her doing what you want, but not so much to scare her off.

Now if you've passed the point where you've been together, hopefully you're good enough with women that they'll want to come back with little effort. The hardest part for me is just getting them to take the first bite of the apple. Once they do that, they'll see it my way from then on.
 

azanon

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joekerr31 said:
..........

my argument is that it actually leads to a more fulfilling life living by certain principles which include an empathetic view of others in the world.

you might not get to bang chics who are taken, but youll end up with chics who offer you a thousand times more than those types of chics could.

a statement which will leads us into the debate of whether such women exist, or whether all women are basically cut from the same cloth ;)

i know there are prize women out there, BUT, to click with those kinds of women you have to be of a frame of mind that accepts the road of empathy and kindness to others (a road which requires greater strenght in my opinion).

the dog eat dog road, although common, merely leads to survival at the expense of others - and i'd argue that's not much of a rewarding survival state. :)
Per the DJ bible, my experience is that a stereotypical bad boy is not excommunicated from the prize girls you speak of. I'm married to one of these women; not just beautiful, but highly ethical and trustworthy, not just on a personal level but actually as a matter of her profession as well. Me, in contrast, well, just see my posts. I keep her guessing, and i presume she likes that, but of course i dont lay all of my cards on the table as to reveal just how dangerous i really am (in a manner of speaking).

Also, you're either/or way of seeing things is flawed, because you eliminated the "both" option. I dont want to have to pick between the types. Its an extremely overused phrase, but it gets the point across; there are the kind you marry and there are the kind you f***.

By the way, on the record, all of my arguments are just philosophical. I do not necessarily live this way, but it is my personal viewpoint.
 
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